Atheism = arrogance

  • 631 Replies
  • 57529 Views
*

The Ellimist

  • 538
  • "Let us play a game, Crayak."
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #300 on: March 17, 2015, 03:42:53 PM »
^ shows they're both arrogant

 ??? How?
Additionally, we cannot entirely rule out the nefarious effects of demons, spirits, gnomes, and wizards on our society's ability to comprehend our flat earth as it really is. 

*

FalseProphet

  • 3696
  • Life is just a tale
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #301 on: March 17, 2015, 06:29:28 PM »
The Dao that can be trodden is not the enduring and unchanging Dao. The name that can be named is not the enduring and unchanging name. Having no name, it is the Originator of heaven and earth; Having a name, it is the Mother of all things.

Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #302 on: March 22, 2015, 02:50:07 PM »
Well, VAUXY, there is Weak Atheism, and Strong Atheism. Weak Atheism poses that G-d could logically exist, but doesn't. Strong Atheism poses that G-d could not even logically exist, that to even discuss the existence of G-d is like discussing the existence of a married bachelor.

These definitions are incorrect. Weak atheism is simply a lack of belief. Weak atheism doesn't necessitate any claims. Strong atheists make the claim that there are no gods.

Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #303 on: March 22, 2015, 03:03:20 PM »
Not all atheist believe there absolutely can't be a god. They just strongly believe there probably isn't.

Most atheist are atheist simply because they choose to not follow any religion......seeing as how religion is complete crap anyway.

In my opinion most people who will call themselves an atheist are probably more agnostic.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #304 on: March 22, 2015, 05:08:48 PM »
Well, VAUXY, there is Weak Atheism, and Strong Atheism. Weak Atheism poses that G-d could logically exist, but doesn't. Strong Atheism poses that G-d could not even logically exist, that to even discuss the existence of G-d is like discussing the existence of a married bachelor.

These definitions are incorrect. Weak atheism is simply a lack of belief. Weak atheism doesn't necessitate any claims. Strong atheists make the claim that there are no gods.

You are free to argue the point, but you are not arguing with me. You are arguing with Professors and scholars of Philosophy that do this shit for a living.


Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #306 on: March 22, 2015, 06:01:19 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_atheism

Interesting article. i'm just telling you how I was taught it at University whilst getting a Bachelor's Degree in Philosophy. In the Philosophy of G-d" course, the definitions I use were the ones given.

*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 11705
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #307 on: March 23, 2015, 02:33:00 AM »
Interesting article. i'm just telling you how I was taught it at University whilst getting a Bachelor's Degree in Philosophy. In the Philosophy of G-d" course, the definitions I use were the ones given.

And I study maths, where the word 'group' is a set of numbers with an operation, and very specific traits: I don't complain whenever anyone uses 'group' to mean something different outside of maths. Definitions used in an advanced, technical field ('field' as a word also has a specific mathematical definition. I just defied it) don't really need to match up with those used in common language. If you need to attend a university course to hear certain definitions, they're clearly not going to be the definitions used by the majority of the people in the world who didn't take said course.

Definitions are dependent on context. Clearly, the universal context is not "Philosophy of God course, where terms need to be rigorously defined so you can go into detail with them," because of what possible use is that ability to laypeople?

*

ausGeoff

  • 6091
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #308 on: March 23, 2015, 10:16:55 AM »
Not all atheist believe there absolutely can't be a god. They just strongly believe there probably isn't.

As a lifelong atheist, I have to disagree with this claim.  Sorry. But  replace "strongly" with unequivocally and "probably" with definitely and I might agree with you.

Quote
Most atheist are atheist simply because they choose to not follow any religion.

Correct to a degree, but more specifically "Atheism is the acceptance that there is no credible scientific or factually reliable evidence for the existence of a god, gods or the supernatural".

Quote
In my opinion most people who will call themselves an atheist are probably more agnostic.

Again I'd have to disagree.  In my own case, your claim is absolutely erroneous.  What you're saying in effect is that it's possible too that many theists are agnostic.    ???

An agnostic is a person who doesn't claim to know for sure that any gods exist or not, no matter what their reasons or how they approach the question of whether any gods exist.


*

Vauxhall

  • 5914
  • dark matter does not exist
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #309 on: March 23, 2015, 10:18:57 AM »
AusGeoff, why are you so convinced that God does not exist?
Read the FAQS.

Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #310 on: March 23, 2015, 10:26:04 AM »
An agnostic is a person who doesn't claim to know for sure that any gods exist or not, no matter what their reasons or how they approach the question of whether any gods exist.

This definition of agnosticism is not incompatible with theism or atheism.

Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #311 on: March 23, 2015, 10:36:23 AM »
Quote
Again I'd have to disagree.  In my own case, your claim is absolutely erroneous.  What you're saying in effect is that it's possible too that many theists are agnostic.    ???

An agnostic is a person who doesn't claim to know for sure that any gods exist or not, no matter what their reasons or how they approach the question of whether any gods exist.

You're obviously an atheist. I am as well.

What I am saying is, from my experience, many people who call themselves atheist are really agnostic. To me, you have to care and be active to be atheist.

I wouldn't consider someone who doesn't bother with religion because they simply don't care to be an atheist.

To me.........to be atheist means you have studied some religion and are educated on it. Just my opinion.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

*

ausGeoff

  • 6091
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #312 on: March 23, 2015, 12:25:55 PM »
AusGeoff, why are you so convinced that God does not exist?

Put simply, there is no viable evidence to support the claim—of gods existing—that satisfies my personal requirements to believe in something.

A minister of religion adheres to dogma proposed 2,500 years ago, and totally accepts the supernatural. (Angels, gods, devils, spirits, resurrection, prayer, miracles etc.)

A scientist promotes tenets that were proved correct yesterday or last year, and refutes absolutely the supernatural.

I should also say that I was raised as a Methodist by conservative Christian parents until I saw the truth of science in my early teens.

*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 11705
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #313 on: March 23, 2015, 01:20:24 PM »
AusGeoff, why are you so convinced that God does not exist?

Put simply, there is no viable evidence to support the claim—of gods existing—that satisfies my personal requirements to believe in something.

How is that firm evidence against the existence of the God? Just because something lacks evidence doesn't mean it's untrue: thousands of years ago people lacked evidence of, say, Australia. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, to use the cliche.

I think there are arguments against certain formulations of God, but not against any arbitrary God. Your definition's unworkable.

Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #314 on: March 23, 2015, 01:32:55 PM »
Quote
Just because something lacks evidence doesn't mean it's untrue: thousands of years ago people lacked evidence of, say, Australia.

Yeah but no one was running around worshiping Australia and saying you had to have faith in it either.

And no one ever went to war and killed people because Australia told them to.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 11705
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #315 on: March 23, 2015, 01:34:08 PM »
Yeah but no one was running around worshiping Australia and saying you had to have faith in it either.

And no one ever went to war and killed people because Australia told them to.

So? That has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the claim.

Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #316 on: March 23, 2015, 01:42:25 PM »
What about the fact that the creation story has been copied into so many different religions?

Or the story of Jesus being near identical to other stories of men like Horus or Osiris?

How about the absence of healers or miracle workers that exist in scripture?

Or the fact that god used to talk to people but is seemingly silent lately?

In scripture.........god supports slavery and misogyny. Yet......he's loving.

In ancient days people used supernatural explanations for things they couldn't otherwise explain. No rain...the gods are angry. Crap like that. We've grown more intelligent about the world around us and that is why the number of atheist/agnostics are growing.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 11705
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #317 on: March 23, 2015, 01:45:19 PM »
What about the fact that the creation story has been copied into so many different religions?

Or the story of Jesus being near identical to other stories of men like Horus or Osiris?

How about the absence of healers or miracle workers that exist in scripture?

Or the fact that god used to talk to people but is seemingly silent lately?

In scripture.........god supports slavery and misogyny. Yet......he's loving.

In ancient days people used supernatural explanations for things they couldn't otherwise explain. No rain...the gods are angry. Crap like that. We've grown more intelligent about the world around us and that is why the number of atheist/agnostics are growing.

Exactly as I said: "I think there are arguments against certain formulations of God, but not against any arbitrary God." Most of those are interesting points, but they're relevant to a mere handful of Gods.
I'm an atheist, my problem's with AusGeoff's definition of atheism, which implies certainty, and is functionally unworkable.

*

ausGeoff

  • 6091
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #318 on: March 23, 2015, 02:51:31 PM »
Just because something lacks evidence doesn't mean it's untrue: thousands of years ago people lacked evidence of, say, Australia. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, to use the cliche.
(Note my bolding.)

I know that some philosophers claim you can prove the non-existence of something, but the consensus is that you cannot.  There's a lot of schisms between the logic of philosophy and the logic of science.

I quote from "The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan. The story is an analogy of believing in something (in the absence of evidence) on one's say-so. God is analogous to the dragon.

The story goes: "A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage".

Suppose I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

"Show me", you say, and I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle - but no dragon

"Where's the dragon", you ask.

"Oh, she's right here", I reply, waving vaguely. "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon".

You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints. "Good idea", I say, "but this dragon floats in the air". Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire. "Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless", I say. You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible. "Good idea, except she's an incorporeal [bodyless] dragon and the paint won't stick!"

And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.

Now what is the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically [coinciding with reality] worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I'm asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so."


—If the theists want me to believe in the existence of their gods, then they have to prove to my satisfaction that unicorns do not exist, despite Isaiah 34:7 saying:  "And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness".

So c'mon all you theists;  unicorns exist, or your holy book tells untruths?

*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 11705
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #319 on: March 23, 2015, 03:05:06 PM »
I know that some philosophers claim you can prove the non-existence of something, but the consensus is that you cannot.  There's a lot of schisms between the logic of philosophy and the logic of science.

It's not philosophy, it's mathematics. Mathematicians prove non-existences all the time. There is no end to the decimal expression of the square root of two, there is no formula to solve by radicals (as there is for quadratics) for a general polynomial of degree 5 or above, there is no eigenvalue of a Laplacian that is smaller than one quarter times the Neumann alpha-isoperimetric constant squared...
If something contains a contradiction, it's impossible. For that reason I know there is no deity who requires free will, no perfect being that could create this universe...
I could not make any such claim about, for example, a Deistic deity.

Quote
The story goes: "A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage".

Suppose I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!
And there's no reason to accept it, and more reason to disbelieve than believe. I accept that, and it's more than reasonable to live your life firmly thinking that there was no dragon. It would still be truly absurd to say that it was impossible: just like it's possible unicorns do exist, and they're just very good at hiding.
No point in accepting it, but that's worlds away from categorically stating, with complete certainty, that there is no such creature.
Maybe it's just because I'm used to more rigorous proofs, but it doesn't sound like you're genuinely saying there's no possibility of God's existence. By definition, unless there is a contradiction in God's nature, God is possible: and that defies your definition of atheism.

Quote
So c'mon all you theists;  unicorns exist, or your holy book tells untruths?

To be fair, it's been said those passages are referring to rhinoceroses. One-horned, after all: words change meaning.

*

Rama Set

  • 6877
  • I am also an engineer
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #320 on: March 23, 2015, 03:33:52 PM »
It seems pretty obvious that anyone who says there unequivocally is or is not a deity of some sort is being intellectually dishonest.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

*

Scroto Gaggins

  • 671
  • Hobbiton represent
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #321 on: March 23, 2015, 03:55:22 PM »
But shouldn't the default position be disbelief?
Maybe not as militant as Geoff, but still.
Because if there is no evidence, then one should assume nonexistence.
That doesn't mean that one should be certain of nonexistence, it just means that that is the default.
They are taking the hobbits to Isengard.

*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 11705
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #322 on: March 23, 2015, 03:57:52 PM »
But shouldn't the default position be disbelief?
Maybe not as militant as Geoff, but still.
Because if there is no evidence, then one should assume nonexistence.
That doesn't mean that one should be certain of nonexistence, it just means that that is the default.

Sure. Well, strictly speaking it's neutrality, but that manifests as disbelief, generally speaking.
The problem's when someone acts like it equals unquestionable fact.

*

ausGeoff

  • 6091
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #323 on: March 23, 2015, 05:14:02 PM »
Okay... I'll say it again... unequivocally.

I don't accept that gods exist and I don't accept that unicorns exist.  End of story for me.

—And to those claiming that gods and unicorns might exist?  Please feel free to go on believing that LOL.

Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #324 on: March 23, 2015, 10:37:55 PM »
—If the theists want me to believe in the existence of their gods, then they have to prove to my satisfaction that unicorns do not exist, despite Isaiah 34:7 saying:  "And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness".

So c'mon all you theists;  unicorns exist, or your holy book tells untruths?

Or you may want to try a different translation.

*

Vauxhall

  • 5914
  • dark matter does not exist
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #325 on: March 24, 2015, 12:56:06 AM »
AusGeoff, why are you so convinced that God does not exist?

Put simply, there is no viable evidence to support the claim—of gods existing—that satisfies my personal requirements to believe in something.

So, basically, if you don't like the explanation then it's absolutely false on all levels.

No offense, but how can you make a judgment call of that caliber on behalf of everyone? Are you the absolute authority on all knowledge?

All you do is prove the thread title correct. Atheism = arrogance.
Read the FAQS.

*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 11705
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #326 on: March 24, 2015, 02:31:02 AM »
Okay... I'll say it again... unequivocally.

I don't accept that gods exist and I don't accept that unicorns exist.  End of story for me.

That's fine, except you're claiming certainty, and nothing you've said justifies that.

It's simple logic. Unless something is impossible, then it is possible. That's so simple it's almost a tautology. Until you show something is impossible, you must concede that it could be possible.
That doesn't mean you have to live your life any differently, give special credence to the idea of a God; it just means you need to be rational.

Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #327 on: March 24, 2015, 03:55:40 AM »
Isaiah 34:7 in various translations in English:
Isaiah 34:7 (KJV)

7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
Isaiah 34:7 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And the wild-oxen shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls: and their land shall be drunken with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

Isaiah 34:7 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And the wild oxen shall fall with them, and the [young] bullocks with the [old and mighty] bulls; and their land shall be drunk and soaked with blood, and their dust made rich with fatness.
Isaiah 34:7 (BRG) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
Isaiah 34:7 (CEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen will fall with them,
    steers with mighty bulls,
    and their land will be drenched with blood;
    its soil soaked with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (CJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 The wild oxen will fall with them,
the young bulls with the strong, mature ones.
Their land will be drunk with blood
and their dust made greasy with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (CEV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Edom’s leaders are wild oxen.
They are powerful bulls,
    but they will die
    with the others.
Their country will be soaked
    with their blood,
and its soil made fertile
    with their fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (DARBY) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And the buffaloes shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
Isaiah 34:7 (DRA) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And the unicorns shall go down with them, and the bulls with the mighty: their land shall be soaked with blood, and their ground with the fat of fat ones.
Isaiah 34:7 (ERV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 So the rams, the cattle, and the strong bulls will be killed. The land will be filled with their blood. The dirt will be covered with their fat.

Isaiah 34:7 (ESV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen shall fall with them,
    and young steers with the mighty bulls.
Their land shall drink its fill of blood,
    and their soil shall be gorged with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (ESVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen shall fall with them,
    and young steers with the mighty bulls.
Their land shall drink its fill of blood,
    and their soil shall be gorged with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (EXB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 The wild oxen will ·be killed [L fall with them],
    and the ·cattle [or young bulls] and the strong ·bulls [L ones; C perhaps referring to Edom’s leaders].
The land will ·be filled with [drink its fill of] their blood,
    and the dirt will be covered with their fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (GNV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And the unicorn shall come down with them, and the heifers with the bulls, and their land shall be drunken with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
Isaiah 34:7 (GW) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen will be killed with them,
    young bulls along with rams.
Their land will be drenched with blood.
Their dust will be covered with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (GNT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 The people will fall like wild oxen and young bulls, and the earth will be red with blood and covered with fat.

Isaiah 34:7 (HCSB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 The wild oxen will be struck down with them,
and young bulls with the mighty bulls.
Their land will be soaked with blood,
and their soil will be saturated with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (ICB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 The oxen will be killed.
    And the cattle and the strong bulls will be killed.
The land will be filled with their blood.
    The dirt will be covered with their fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (ISV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen will fall together with them—
    young steers and mighty bulls.
Their land will be drenched with blood,
    and their soil will be swollen with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (JUB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And the unicorns shall fall with them, and the bulls with the calves; and their land shall become drunk with blood, and their dust shall be greased with fatness.
Isaiah 34:7 (KJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

Isaiah 34:7 (AKJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And the unicorns shall come down with them,
and the bullocks with the bulls;
and their land shall be soaked with blood,
and their dust made fat with fatness.
Isaiah 34:7 (LEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And wild oxen shall go down with them,
    and steers with strong bulls.
And their land shall be drenched with blood,
    and their soil shall be fattened with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (TLB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 The strongest will perish, young boys and veterans too. The land will be soaked with blood, and the soil made rich with fat.

Isaiah 34:5-7 (MSG) | In Context | Whole Chapter

5-7 “Once I’ve finished with earth and sky,
    I’ll start in on Edom.
I’ll come down hard on Edom,
    a people I’ve slated for total termination.”
God has a sword, thirsty for blood and more blood,
    a sword hungry for well-fed flesh,
Lamb and goat blood,
    the suet-rich kidneys of rams.
Yes, God has scheduled a sacrifice in Bozrah, the capital,
    the whole country of Edom a slaughterhouse.
A wholesale slaughter, wild animals
    and farm animals alike slaughtered.
The whole country soaked with blood,
    all the ground greasy with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (MEV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 The wild oxen shall also fall with them,
    and the young bulls with the mighty bulls;
so their land shall be soaked with blood,
    and their dust become greasy with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (NOG) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen will be killed with them,
    young bulls along with rams.
    Their land will be drenched with blood.
    Their dust will be covered with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (NABRE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen shall be struck down with fatlings,
    and bullocks with bulls;
Their land shall be soaked with blood,
    and their soil greasy with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (NASB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen will also fall with them
And young bulls with strong ones;
Thus their land will be soaked with blood,
And their dust become greasy with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (NCV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 The oxen will be killed,
    and the cattle and the strong bulls.
The land will be filled with their blood,
    and the dirt will be covered with their fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (NET) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen will be slaughtered along with them,
as well as strong bulls.
Their land is drenched with blood,
their soil is covered with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (NIRV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 The people and their leaders will be killed
    like wild oxen and young bulls.
Their land will be wet with their blood.
    The dust will be covered with their fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (NIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And the wild oxen will fall with them,
    the bull calves and the great bulls.
Their land will be drenched with blood,
    and the dust will be soaked with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (NIVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And the wild oxen will fall with them,
    the bull calves and the great bulls.
Their land will be drenched with blood,
    and the dust will be soaked with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (NKJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 The wild oxen shall come down with them,
And the young bulls with the mighty bulls;
Their land shall be soaked with blood,
And their dust saturated with fatness.”
Isaiah 34:7 (NLV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen will fall with them, and young bulls with strong ones. So their land will be filled with blood, and their dust will become rich with fat.

Isaiah 34:7 (NLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Even men as strong as wild oxen will die—
    the young men alongside the veterans.
The land will be soaked with blood
    and the soil enriched with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (NRSV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen shall fall with them,
    and young steers with the mighty bulls.
Their land shall be soaked with blood,
    and their soil made rich with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (NRSVA) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen shall fall with them,
    and young steers with the mighty bulls.
Their land shall be soaked with blood,
    and their soil made rich with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (NRSVACE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen shall fall with them,
    and young steers with the mighty bulls.
Their land shall be soaked with blood,
    and their soil made rich with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (NRSVCE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen shall fall with them,
    and young steers with the mighty bulls.
Their land shall be soaked with blood,
    and their soil made rich with fat.
Yeshayah 34:7 (OJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And the re’emim (wild oxen) shall fall with them, and the bull calves with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with dahm, and their aphar (dust) enriched with chelev.
Isaiah 34:7 (RSV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen shall fall with them,
    and young steers with the mighty bulls.
Their land shall be soaked with blood,
    and their soil made rich with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (RSVCE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 Wild oxen shall fall with them,
    and young steers with the mighty bulls.
Their land shall be soaked with blood,
    and their soil made rich with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (VOICE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And great wild cattle will be slaughtered
    along with them—bulls, oxen, and steers—
Until their land is soggy with blood and oozes with their fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (WEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 The wild oxen will come down with them,
    and the young bulls with the mighty bulls;
    and their land will be drunken with blood,
    and their dust made greasy with fat.
Isaiah 34:7 (WYC) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And unicorns shall go down with them, and bulls with them that be mighty (And wild oxen shall go down with them, and bulls with other mighty beasts); the land of them shall be filled with blood, and the earth of them with [the] inner fatness of fat beasts;
Isaiah 34:7 (YLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

7 And come down have reems with them, And bullocks with bulls, And soaked hath been their land from blood, And their dust from fatness is made fat.

As we can see, the fact of the matter is, the use of the word "unicorn" is a bit unwieldy. Although the KJV is generally a very good translation, it does contain some odd elements. That is clearly one of them.

*

mathsman

  • 487
  • one of the lads
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #328 on: March 24, 2015, 05:06:50 AM »
I know that some philosophers claim you can prove the non-existence of something, but the consensus is that you cannot.  There's a lot of schisms between the logic of philosophy and the logic of science.

It's not philosophy, it's mathematics. Mathematicians prove non-existences all the time. There is no end to the decimal expression of the square root of two, there is no formula to solve by radicals (as there is for quadratics) for a general polynomial of degree 5 or above, there is no eigenvalue of a Laplacian that is smaller than one quarter times the Neumann alpha-isoperimetric constant squared...

I feel that this is a misuse of mathematics. A mathematician can prove the non-existence of a mathematical object in terms of the axioms of that particular mathematical branch. Outside of mathematics the proof and the object (or non-object) are meaningless.


*

Socratic Amusement

  • 636
  • An Exercise in Witty Exploration
Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #329 on: March 24, 2015, 06:07:37 AM »
AusGeoff, why are you so convinced that God does not exist?

Put simply, there is no viable evidence to support the claim—of gods existing—that satisfies my personal requirements to believe in something.

So, basically, if you don't like the explanation then it's absolutely false on all levels.

No offense, but how can you make a judgment call of that caliber on behalf of everyone? Are you the absolute authority on all knowledge?

All you do is prove the thread title correct. Atheism = arrogance.

One doesn't have to have all knowledge to make a pragmatic judgement call.

On the one hand you have a positive claim (theism and deism), that are based on no physical evidence or logical thought process.
On the other, you have a neutral claim, that requires physical proof or logical thought processes in order to move from the neutral position.

If anything, your retort of "You have to know everything to disprove theism" is of monumental, staggering arrogance.
"As for me, all I know is that I know nothing."