Atheism = arrogance

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kman

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #270 on: March 07, 2015, 05:58:44 PM »
This semantic pissing contest is both irrelevant and boring.

You're right. I'm getting kind of bored of this too. What do you propose I do next?

Maybe discuss whether a deity would be moral (if one existed), considering the death and suffering present in our world?
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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #271 on: March 07, 2015, 11:49:58 PM »
Wish I could read all the posts but I think religion is pretty arrogant. (And I'm religious)

 Religion requires us to believe that we matter in universe. That God made us. Like God took time out of creating all the amazing things in universe to make us.

And that donating a few dollars and spreading our beliefs will save our souls for an eternity?

Atheism is devoid of meaning though. Everytning is up to chance and I can't live that way. So I choose arrogance.
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Scroto Gaggins

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #272 on: March 08, 2015, 01:42:02 AM »
Wish I could read all the posts but I think religion is pretty arrogant. (And I'm religious)

 Religion requires us to believe that we matter in universe. That God made us. Like God took time out of creating all the amazing things in universe to make us.

And that donating a few dollars and spreading our beliefs will save our souls for an eternity?

Atheism is devoid of meaning though. Everytning is up to chance and I can't live that way. So I choose arrogance.
Is there meaning in the world though?
And how is atheism chance?
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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #273 on: March 08, 2015, 01:48:51 AM »
This semantic pissing contest is both irrelevant and boring.
This is the Flat Earth Society.  Semantic pissing contests is what they do.
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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #274 on: March 08, 2015, 01:55:12 AM »
This semantic pissing contest is both irrelevant and boring.

You're right. I'm getting kind of bored of this too. What do you propose I do next?
Try to have an actual debate rather than just winding people up for your own amusement?

Unrealistic I know, but you did ask.
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a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #275 on: March 08, 2015, 03:46:28 AM »
Wish I could read all the posts but I think religion is pretty arrogant. (And I'm religious)

 Religion requires us to believe that we matter in universe. That God made us. Like God took time out of creating all the amazing things in universe to make us.

And that donating a few dollars and spreading our beliefs will save our souls for an eternity?

Atheism is devoid of meaning though. Everytning is up to chance and I can't live that way. So I choose arrogance.
Is there meaning in the world though?
And how is atheism chance?

Why don't you answer your own questions?
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ausGeoff

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #276 on: March 08, 2015, 05:23:29 AM »
Atheism is devoid of meaning though. Everything is up to chance and I can't live that way.

I'm assuming that you mean the atheistic "lifestyle" is devoid of meaning.  If that's in fact the case, then this claim is demonstrably untrue.

Atheists and theists both enjoy identical lifestyles, share the same emotions of love and hate, of pain and pleasure, of excitement and desire, of weakness and vulnerability.  Both are equally charitable, and endeavour to live their lives in peace, and without harming anybody else in their pursuit of happiness.  Both seek forthright education, further insights and worldly wisdom.  Both seek philosophical enlightenment and the appreciation of artistry, imagination, and virtuosity.

Nothing more is left to chance in the atheist's world than it is in the theist's world.  We're both of us equally subject to the whims of nature or the constraints of our political masters.  Simply being a theist doesn't make you a master of your own destiny any more than being an atheist does.

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Socratic Amusement

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #277 on: March 08, 2015, 07:27:35 AM »
I'm pretty sure he meant in the existential sense, as many of the religious often do.

The "The Universe/the Earth/Life/Human beings are the result of naturalistic forces that lack the imposed purpose(s) of a guiding intelligence" thing that they seem to have a weird hangup about.

They seem to think that without a divine purpose, and no afterlife, an Atheist can only be depressed with their pointless, temporary existence.

I know, it doesn't make any sense, but many Theists hold to that for some reason.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 07:30:20 AM by Socratic Amusement »
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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #278 on: March 08, 2015, 07:54:26 AM »
I'm pretty sure he meant in the existential sense, as many of the religious often do.

The "The Universe/the Earth/Life/Human beings are the result of naturalistic forces that lack the imposed purpose(s) of a guiding intelligence" thing that they seem to have a weird hangup about.

They seem to think that without a divine purpose, and no afterlife, an Atheist can only be depressed with their pointless, temporary existence.

I know, it doesn't make any sense, but many Theists hold to that for some reason.

SOCRATIC is right, at least to a point. Many theists do think that way. The idea in their head is that you can't possibly be happy without the hope of heaven. Oddly enough, Jews are probably the only group of theists that DON'T feel that way, because there are plenty of us that don't believe in an Afterlife, simply because the Torah says nothing about one. I personally do believe in an Afterlife  of ultimate Paradise (or, if you're really awful, soul extinction, as I don't believe in eternal torment in hell), but plenty of Jews don't. And even assuming I'm wrong about the Afterlife, and there isn't one, I don't care much.

The presence or lack of an Afterlife would not let me off of obedience to the Law of Moses. The Law is the Law. We follow it because it is the Law, rather than because we fear what happens when we die. What happens when we are wormfood is entirely irrelevant to our behaviour now.

So personally, since I am not affected by the presence or lack of an Afterlife, about which existence I might be incorrect, then I don't see why that would affect an atheist in any way. That is my own, Jewish perspective on the matter.

EDIT:

And yes, it is almost physically painful to have to admit that SOCRATIC and I could be on the same page about something!  ;D ;D
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 10:10:07 AM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #279 on: March 08, 2015, 09:04:07 PM »
Atheism is devoid of meaning though. Everything is up to chance and I can't live that way.

I'm assuming that you mean the atheistic "lifestyle" is devoid of meaning.  If that's in fact the case, then this claim is demonstrably untrue.

Atheists and theists both enjoy identical lifestyles, share the same emotions of love and hate, of pain and pleasure, of excitement and desire, of weakness and vulnerability.  Both are equally charitable, and endeavour to live their lives in peace, and without harming anybody else in their pursuit of happiness.  Both seek forthright education, further insights and worldly wisdom.  Both seek philosophical enlightenment and the appreciation of artistry, imagination, and virtuosity.

Nothing more is left to chance in the atheist's world than it is in the theist's world.  We're both of us equally subject to the whims of nature or the constraints of our political masters.  Simply being a theist doesn't make you a master of your own destiny any more than being an atheist does.

Why would you assume I meant something other than what I said and then tell me I'm wrong?

No. Everyone's life on this earth has meaning. Does our existence have meaning? is an altogether different question.
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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #280 on: March 08, 2015, 09:17:54 PM »
There's wayyyy more to it than saying I think the only way to be happy is to have meaning. You can generalize theists so I'll generalize atheists: They all think religious people are simple-minded.

I think you can have a completely fulfilled religious-free life and be content with dying. I myself would be content with dying and never existing. I think humanity has a story and a purpose, I think the problems of this day in our world will greatly affect how we survive in our universe.

I also believe in good and evil and that its not always black and white, but that we are all connected. And our actions have an impact on our nature.

so whatever I got on a tangent. but have you studied moral philosophy? theres a great radio lab on it I would link you to if I had the willpower. Is there good and evil? Why are some actions deemed evil when everything in our logic says it should be good? As in the ends justifies the means kind of thing.

I'd flesh out my thoughts more but I'm on. My iPad.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 09:19:26 PM by FlatOrange »
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ausGeoff

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #281 on: March 09, 2015, 06:39:39 AM »
Why would you assume I meant something other than what I said and then tell me I'm wrong?

Because your statement that "atheism is devoid of meaning" doesn't make any sense. You're erroneously conflating "atheism" with "atheistic lifestyle".  They're two different things.

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Vauxhall

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #282 on: March 09, 2015, 10:10:07 AM »
This semantic pissing contest is both irrelevant and boring.

You're right. I'm getting kind of bored of this too. What do you propose I do next?

Maybe discuss whether a deity would be moral (if one existed), considering the death and suffering present in our world?

If there is a deity that created us I'd assume that he is a) a complete asshole or b) completely indifferent to us. Maybe it's not a deity, but an advanced alien or human from the future who has created a mini-universe (for science) and no longer pays attention to it, perhaps because he already gathered enough data from the experiment. Maybe he is just letting the experiment continue for humanitarian reasons.
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FalseProphet

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #283 on: March 09, 2015, 10:17:39 AM »
This semantic pissing contest is both irrelevant and boring.

You're right. I'm getting kind of bored of this too. What do you propose I do next?

Maybe discuss whether a deity would be moral (if one existed), considering the death and suffering present in our world?

If there is a deity that created us I'd assume that he is a) a complete asshole or b) completely indifferent to us. Maybe it's not a deity, but an advanced alien or human from the future who has created a mini-universe (for science) and no longer pays attention to it, perhaps because he already gathered enough data from the experiment. Maybe he is just letting the experiment continue for humanitarian reasons.

I have successfully solved this problem in this thread:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63048.0#.VP3VY5NgR-w

But nobody has replied yet or ordered a T-shirt.

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Vauxhall

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #284 on: March 09, 2015, 10:28:02 AM »
This semantic pissing contest is both irrelevant and boring.

You're right. I'm getting kind of bored of this too. What do you propose I do next?

Maybe discuss whether a deity would be moral (if one existed), considering the death and suffering present in our world?

If there is a deity that created us I'd assume that he is a) a complete asshole or b) completely indifferent to us. Maybe it's not a deity, but an advanced alien or human from the future who has created a mini-universe (for science) and no longer pays attention to it, perhaps because he already gathered enough data from the experiment. Maybe he is just letting the experiment continue for humanitarian reasons.

I have successfully solved this problem in this thread:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63048.0#.VP3VY5NgR-w

But nobody has replied yet or ordered a T-shirt.

I read your entire thread and discovered too late that it was basic trolling.  >:(
Read the FAQS.

Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #285 on: March 09, 2015, 10:36:54 AM »
Why would you assume I meant something other than what I said and then tell me I'm wrong?

Because your statement that "atheism is devoid of meaning" doesn't make any sense. You're erroneously conflating "atheism" with "atheistic lifestyle".  They're two different things.

You not understanding something doesn't make it nonsensical.
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FalseProphet

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #286 on: March 09, 2015, 10:56:02 AM »
This semantic pissing contest is both irrelevant and boring.

You're right. I'm getting kind of bored of this too. What do you propose I do next?

Maybe discuss whether a deity would be moral (if one existed), considering the death and suffering present in our world?

If there is a deity that created us I'd assume that he is a) a complete asshole or b) completely indifferent to us. Maybe it's not a deity, but an advanced alien or human from the future who has created a mini-universe (for science) and no longer pays attention to it, perhaps because he already gathered enough data from the experiment. Maybe he is just letting the experiment continue for humanitarian reasons.

I have successfully solved this problem in this thread:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63048.0#.VP3VY5NgR-w

But nobody has replied yet or ordered a T-shirt.

I read your entire thread and discovered too late that it was basic trolling.  >:(

There is no way to speak about God without getting absurd. Don't call that trolling  :(

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Socratic Amusement

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #287 on: March 09, 2015, 10:59:13 AM »
Why would you assume I meant something other than what I said and then tell me I'm wrong?

Because your statement that "atheism is devoid of meaning" doesn't make any sense. You're erroneously conflating "atheism" with "atheistic lifestyle".  They're two different things.

You not understanding something doesn't make it nonsensical.

True. But we do understand it.

It still doesn't make any sense.
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The Ellimist

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #288 on: March 09, 2015, 06:12:07 PM »
Here's how I see it.

The claim theism makes is unfalsifiable. It is not right, it is not wrong

Atheism rejects this claim. However, since the claim is unfalsifiable, rejecting is is just as illogical as accepting it.

Additionally, we cannot entirely rule out the nefarious effects of demons, spirits, gnomes, and wizards on our society's ability to comprehend our flat earth as it really is. 

Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #289 on: March 09, 2015, 06:16:40 PM »
Here's how I see it.

The claim theism makes is unfalsifiable. It is not right, it is not wrong

Atheism rejects this claim. However, since the claim is unfalsifiable, rejecting is is just as illogical as accepting it.

He has a point.

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Scroto Gaggins

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #290 on: March 09, 2015, 06:30:23 PM »
Here's how I see it.

The claim theism makes is unfalsifiable. It is not right, it is not wrong

Atheism rejects this claim. However, since the claim is unfalsifiable, rejecting is is just as illogical as accepting it.

Shouldn't the lack of evidence make atheism the default position?
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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #291 on: March 09, 2015, 06:35:51 PM »
Not necessarily. You have to bring in the question of how likely something arising from nothing is.

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The Ellimist

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #292 on: March 09, 2015, 06:48:56 PM »
Here's how I see it.

The claim theism makes is unfalsifiable. It is not right, it is not wrong

Atheism rejects this claim. However, since the claim is unfalsifiable, rejecting is is just as illogical as accepting it.

Shouldn't the lack of evidence make atheism the default position?

No, simply means there is a lack of evidence. The conclusion one should draw from this is "insufficient data". Making that claim is just the other side of a coin inscribed, "argumentum ad ignorantiam"
Additionally, we cannot entirely rule out the nefarious effects of demons, spirits, gnomes, and wizards on our society's ability to comprehend our flat earth as it really is. 

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Socratic Amusement

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #293 on: March 09, 2015, 07:18:40 PM »
Here's how I see it.

The claim theism makes is unfalsifiable. It is not right, it is not wrong

Atheism rejects this claim. However, since the claim is unfalsifiable, rejecting is is just as illogical as accepting it.

Well, that is a big ol' bucket of horse-shit.

"A falsifiable hypothesis is one which can be put to a test by which it could conceivably be refuted...the distinctive feature of any scientific theory is that its hypotheses can be put to a test. The distinctive feature of a good scientific theory is that its hypotheses pass the test. The contrast is with pseudo-science. The adherents of a pseudo-science are able to cling to its hypotheses no matter how events turn out, because the hypotheses are not testable."

Unfalsifiability is a sign of weakness. It can be easily and logically discarded as nonsense.
"As for me, all I know is that I know nothing."

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The Ellimist

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #294 on: March 09, 2015, 07:46:12 PM »
Here's how I see it.

The claim theism makes is unfalsifiable. It is not right, it is not wrong

Atheism rejects this claim. However, since the claim is unfalsifiable, rejecting is is just as illogical as accepting it.

Well, that is a big ol' bucket of horse-shit.

"A falsifiable hypothesis is one which can be put to a test by which it could conceivably be refuted...the distinctive feature of any scientific theory is that its hypotheses can be put to a test. The distinctive feature of a good scientific theory is that its hypotheses pass the test. The contrast is with pseudo-science. The adherents of a pseudo-science are able to cling to its hypotheses no matter how events turn out, because the hypotheses are not testable."

Unfalsifiability is a sign of weakness. It can be easily and logically discarded as nonsense.

.....Or it just means something is unfalsifiable. I'm holding It by Stephen King in my hand right now. Can you disprove this? (not implying you have the burden of proof) No. Can you prove it? No. Does this I mean I do have it in my hand? No. Does this mean I don't? No.

Simple. None of this "Unfalsifiability is a sign of weakness" stuff. In the process of the scientific method, an unfalsifiable hypothesis is something that cannot be shown to be true but cannot be disproved, at least not yet. Your animosity, and the animosity of whoever that quote is from, lies with people who make positive claims about the unfalsifiable. While unfalsifiable hypothesis are not inherently scientific, they're not inherently anti-scientific anymore than the dark matter was before it was integrated into our model of the universe, or evolution before Darwin.
Additionally, we cannot entirely rule out the nefarious effects of demons, spirits, gnomes, and wizards on our society's ability to comprehend our flat earth as it really is. 

Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #295 on: March 09, 2015, 10:27:42 PM »
^ shows they're both arrogant
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Slemon

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #296 on: March 10, 2015, 02:57:25 AM »
Nice idea, also not true.
Abstract theism is unfalsifiable, certainly: but when traits are assigned to a deity, it can well be falsifiable.
Besides, you're still assuming the tired old claim that atheism implies certainty, or a blanket statement of "This is fact," rather than "I see no reason to accept this." Using a definition no one practically means is not going to unearth any useful information.
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Vauxhall

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #297 on: March 10, 2015, 10:00:18 AM »
.....Or it just means something is unfalsifiable. I'm holding It by Stephen King in my hand right now. Can you disprove this? (not implying you have the burden of proof) No. Can you prove it? No. Does this I mean I do have it in my hand? No. Does this mean I don't? No.

This is one of the most retarted things I've read in a while. Just take a damn picture of you holding It by Stephen King and post it here. That's falsifiable. Unfortunately, one cannot take a picture of God so easily. So in conclusion, your comparison is wrong. And terrible.
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The Ellimist

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #298 on: March 17, 2015, 03:25:24 PM »
.....Or it just means something is unfalsifiable. I'm holding It by Stephen King in my hand right now. Can you disprove this? (not implying you have the burden of proof) No. Can you prove it? No. Does this I mean I do have it in my hand? No. Does this mean I don't? No.

This is one of the most retarded things I've read in a while. Just take a damn picture of you holding It by Stephen King and post it here. That's falsifiable. Unfortunately, one cannot take a picture of God so easily. So in conclusion, your comparison is wrong. And terrible.

Okay, that was a bad example. How about if i say, "It's going to rain in this spot 1 billion years from now."? My point still stands.
Additionally, we cannot entirely rule out the nefarious effects of demons, spirits, gnomes, and wizards on our society's ability to comprehend our flat earth as it really is. 

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The Ellimist

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Re: Atheism = arrogance
« Reply #299 on: March 17, 2015, 03:41:36 PM »
Nice idea, also not true.
Abstract theism is unfalsifiable, certainly: but when traits are assigned to a deity, it can well be falsifiable.
Besides, you're still assuming the tired old claim that atheism implies certainty, or a blanket statement of "This is fact," rather than "I see no reason to accept this." Using a definition no one practically means is not going to unearth any useful information.


Quote
Abstract theism is unfalsifiable, certainly: but when traits are assigned to a deity, it can well be falsifiable.

Your point? Atheism and theism deal with "abstract theism", not religion specifically.

Quote
Besides, you're still assuming the tired old claim that atheism implies certainty

No.....

Quote
, or a blanket statement of "This is fact," rather than "I see no reason to accept this."

Yes, you don't see a reason to accept it, so you don't accept it. If you don't accept something that can't be shown to be true/false, then you are using one side of the argument from ignorance. Not saying that you know with certainty, just that there is no reason to go beyond the claim that "It can't be known yet"

Additionally, we cannot entirely rule out the nefarious effects of demons, spirits, gnomes, and wizards on our society's ability to comprehend our flat earth as it really is.