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NONcom

• 11
« on: February 19, 2015, 12:34:17 PM »
Hello, flatearthers.

First of all i'm new here.
As I studied engineering i have no doubt the earth is round, however it is just fascinating how you can take the facts at your advantage.
However there is one big question about earth "accelerating" upwards by 9,8 m/s(2)
If the earth is always going upwards, how is it possible for planes to fly?
Planes would have to go up constantly up to "run away" from earth.
If they would fly paralel to the ground, they would hit the ground.
When the earth is flat, plane movement is logical. Plane just has to beat the force of gravity.
What funny about it. Force is gravity is beatable, because atmoshpere is full of particles, and at a certain speed, the wings of the plane just "lie" on these particles and keep the plane in the air.
If the earth would be accelerating upwards, it would mean that air is dense enough to hold on a plane by pressing it.
So how do planes stay in the sky if the earth is constantly moving upwards?
Could you calculate at what speed should the plane take off vertically, that it could beat the speed of earth?
Also if earth accelarates verticaly it means it's speed is geting bigger constantly.
How is it possible to ignore this fact?

Son of Orospu

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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2015, 12:44:48 PM »
Regardless of whether gravity is true or UA is true, the plane still has to create enough lift to overcome the 9.8 m/s/s of acceleration.  If it does not, then the plane will hit the ground.  I am not sure what you are confused about.  Maybe you can restate you position in just one clear sentence?

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NONcom

• 11
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2015, 12:51:52 PM »
There is no accelaration, there is a pull down effect.
The plane moving at a fast speed can lie on the particles of atmoshpere just to fly straight.
There is a simple drawing of plane aerodynamics:
http://www.portnet.k12.ny.us/cms/lib6/NY01001023/Centricity/Domain/449/airplane%20aerodynamics.jpg

To keep in air, you just have to beat the gravity, but you dont have to go always upwards.
If the earth would fly upwards, there would not be any force dragging the plane down, so there could not be any equilibrium to maintain the plane in the air.
Can you explain me how the aerodynamics of a plane work on a flat earth model, which is accelerating upwards?

Son of Orospu

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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2015, 12:56:35 PM »
I think I see what you are so confused about.  Einstein proved that the acceleration cause by "gravity" is identical to any acceleration caused by anything else.  This is why we used the term G-Force to describe the forces you feel due to changes in acceleration as compared to what you would feel on Earth.  Perhaps you should study up on Special Relativity a little bit?

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NONcom

• 11
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2015, 01:11:36 PM »
I think I see what you are so confused about.  Einstein proved that the acceleration cause by "gravity" is identical to any acceleration caused by anything else.  This is why we used the term G-Force to describe the forces you feel due to changes in acceleration as compared to what you would feel on Earth.  Perhaps you should study up on Special Relativity a little bit?

We don't need to talk about einstein.
Einstein wasn't talking about gravity at all, since it was a wide known fact as he was doing his research. The famous formula of relativity is the formula E=mc2, there is no gravity in this formula.
Term g-force is used just because it is a constant, and you can compare things to a thing that doesn't change (almost).
any acceleration is the same accelaration as all accellerations. It bugs me, how is it possible to gain higher speed when you are skydiving down, if not you, but the earth is going towards you. so basically, you say there is no speed. Well if the earth moves towards you, with acceleration it gains speed, and it would be logical and it would explain why you think you go faster when you jump or dive down. However it proves, that earth constantly gains higher speed than it was before.
So Earth should reach speed of light at some point.

But the main thing was not answered.
How does the plain stay in air?
And if the earth moves upwards, and there is no force that is draging everyone down, why do people on a plane don't float in the air?

Dinosaur Neil

• 3177
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2015, 01:25:20 PM »
Einstein proved that the acceleration cause by "gravity" is identical to any acceleration caused by anything else.    Perhaps you should study up on Special Relativity a little bit?

Einstein proved that the acceleration caused by "gravity" is identical to any acceleration caused by anything else in a homogenous gravitational field and with a constant value of acceleration. Earth does not have a homogenous gravitational field, therefore it is not equivalent to acceleration.   Perhaps you should study up on Special Relativity a little bit?
Founder member of the League Of Scientific Gentlemen and Mademoiselles des Connaissances.
I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug.

Son of Orospu

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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2015, 01:28:02 PM »
We don't need to talk about einstein.
Einstein wasn't talking about gravity at all, since it was a wide known fact as he was doing his research. The famous formula of relativity is the formula E=mc2, there is no gravity in this formula.

Perhaps you should actually study up on Relativity before you comment about it?  Pay particular attention to the Equivalence Principle

Term g-force is used just because it is a constant, and you can compare things to a thing that doesn't change (almost).
any acceleration is the same accelaration as all accellerations.

When did g-force become a constant?  Do you even read what you type?

It bugs me, how is it possible to gain higher speed when you are skydiving down, if not you, but the earth is going towards you. so basically, you say there is no speed.

I am sorry, but this is just gibberish.  Could you try to restate it in a coherent manner, please?

Well if the earth moves towards you, with acceleration it gains speed, and it would be logical and it would explain why you think you go faster when you jump or dive down. However it proves, that earth constantly gains higher speed than it was before.

Once again, I am not entirely sure what you are trying to say.  All I can tell you is that the Earth pushes up on the air, just like it pushes up on your feet.

So Earth should reach speed of light at some point.

Oh, here we go again.  Please study up on Special Relativity.  Einstein proves that something can accelerate at a constant rate and never reach the speed of light, or do you think that you are smarted than Einstein?

But the main thing was not answered.
How does the plain stay in air?
And if the earth moves upwards, and there is no force that is draging everyone down, why do people on a plane don't float in the air?

The air is moving up with the Earth.  I am not sure what you don't understand about this.  And, momentum keep people's feet on the deck of the plane because the plane is accelerating upward, just like the air and the Earth.  When a plane does not accelerate upward, like on the vomit comet, people do float around in the air.

Son of Orospu

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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2015, 01:29:20 PM »
Einstein proved that the acceleration cause by "gravity" is identical to any acceleration caused by anything else.    Perhaps you should study up on Special Relativity a little bit?

Einstein proved that the acceleration caused by "gravity" is identical to any acceleration caused by anything else in a homogenous gravitational field and with a constant value of acceleration. Earth does not have a homogenous gravitational field, therefore it is not equivalent to acceleration.   Perhaps you should study up on Special Relativity a little bit?

When did you perform experiments to determine that there is no "homogenous gravitational field"?  Oh, that is right, you are just taking their word for it.

Dinosaur Neil

• 3177
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2015, 01:32:14 PM »
Einstein proved that the acceleration cause by "gravity" is identical to any acceleration caused by anything else.    Perhaps you should study up on Special Relativity a little bit?

Einstein proved that the acceleration caused by "gravity" is identical to any acceleration caused by anything else in a homogenous gravitational field and with a constant value of acceleration. Earth does not have a homogenous gravitational field, therefore it is not equivalent to acceleration.   Perhaps you should study up on Special Relativity a little bit?

When did you perform experiments to determine that there is no "homogenous gravitational field"?  Oh, that is right, you are just taking their word for it.

I have done experiments. Piss off to your basement.
Founder member of the League Of Scientific Gentlemen and Mademoiselles des Connaissances.
I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug.

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gpssjim

• 514
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2015, 01:32:42 PM »
I think airplanes would work fine with UA, the air would be accelerating right along with the earth.  The big problem for UA is the fact that it is not constant on earth and changes with height.  And what keeps the air on the surface of the earth, it should slip off the sides unless there is a huge wall or dome to hole the air in place.  Also the fact that the earth would be moving very fast by now.  But to be honest, I only have experience flying airplanes in a gravity field on a spheroid planet.

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NONcom

• 11
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2015, 01:55:54 PM »
I think airplanes would work fine with UA, the air would be accelerating right along with the earth.  The big problem for UA is the fact that it is not constant on earth and changes with height.  And what keeps the air on the surface of the earth, it should slip off the sides unless there is a huge wall or dome to hole the air in place.  Also the fact that the earth would be moving very fast by now.  But to be honest, I only have experience flying airplanes in a gravity field on a spheroid planet.

However I think it is a big difference between been draging down.
If the air moves with disc of earth, and the air "pushes up" the plane as it is flying, why doesn't the air push up people at lower heights?
Also about momentum, so you would say, that the air, which "pushes up" the plane would create momentum for people in a plane?
Don't you say that, regarding it is air, it is a lot at stake? basically it is saying, that air is capable of lifting any object that is flying in the sky.
It is very two different things being dragged down, and being pushed up, when you try to maintain the same height you are travelling at.

macrohard

• 139
• IQ over 180
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2015, 11:44:22 PM »
I'm an engineer, and this is the first thread I have ever agreed with the FE stance.

Overcoming gravity is no different than overcoming UA.*

There are literally thousands of ways to prove RE or disprove FE.  Why would you possibly pick this as your debate topic?

*For non-orbital velocities

FalseProphet

• 3696
• Life is just a tale
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2015, 12:21:15 AM »
I think I see what you are so confused about.  Einstein proved that the acceleration cause by "gravity" is identical to any acceleration caused by anything else.  This is why we used the term G-Force to describe the forces you feel due to changes in acceleration as compared to what you would feel on Earth.  Perhaps you should study up on Special Relativity a little bit?

GENERAL! GENERAL RELATIVITY!

Son of Orospu

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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2015, 10:04:30 AM »
I think I see what you are so confused about.  Einstein proved that the acceleration cause by "gravity" is identical to any acceleration caused by anything else.  This is why we used the term G-Force to describe the forces you feel due to changes in acceleration as compared to what you would feel on Earth.  Perhaps you should study up on Special Relativity a little bit?

GENERAL! GENERAL RELATIVITY!

Are you claiming that SR does not deal with acceleration?

mikeman7918

• 5431
• Round Earther
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2015, 04:14:30 PM »
Hello, flatearthers.

First of all i'm new here.
As I studied engineering i have no doubt the earth is round, however it is just fascinating how you can take the facts at your advantage.
However there is one big question about earth "accelerating" upwards by 9,8 m/s(2)
If the earth is always going upwards, how is it possible for planes to fly?
Planes would have to go up constantly up to "run away" from earth.
If they would fly paralel to the ground, they would hit the ground.
When the earth is flat, plane movement is logical. Plane just has to beat the force of gravity.
What funny about it. Force is gravity is beatable, because atmoshpere is full of particles, and at a certain speed, the wings of the plane just "lie" on these particles and keep the plane in the air.
If the earth would be accelerating upwards, it would mean that air is dense enough to hold on a plane by pressing it.
So how do planes stay in the sky if the earth is constantly moving upwards?
Could you calculate at what speed should the plane take off vertically, that it could beat the speed of earth?
Also if earth accelarates verticaly it means it's speed is geting bigger constantly.
How is it possible to ignore this fact?

I am a round earther, but gravity is actually indistinguishable from the acceleration of your environment.  Planes would work just fin in flat Earth theory and your argument doesn't really prove anything.  I suggest you bring up things like sunsets, tides, southern constellations, Moon phases, eclipses, boats disappearing bottom first as they get further, GPS, seeing the ISS with a telescope, and the constant angular distance of stars.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.

Dinosaur Neil

• 3177
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2015, 04:27:18 PM »

I am a round earther, but gravity is actually indistinguishable from the acceleration of your environment.

IN A HOMOGENOUS FIELD ONLY.

We are not in a homogenous field. Flat earthers denying the variance of gravity at different places on earth because they haven't witnessed the measurements is like denying that it's different temperatures in Kenya, New Zealand and Iceland because they've never been there themselves. When they resort to claiming facts are fabricated, you've reached the end of their argument and you've won.
Founder member of the League Of Scientific Gentlemen and Mademoiselles des Connaissances.
I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug.

mikeman7918

• 5431
• Round Earther