The earth is flat and I'm an idiot

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The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« on: January 10, 2015, 08:29:37 AM »
A common ending to FET posts is that those that donít agree with them are idiots.  First of all, calling someone an idiot doesnít prove a thing.  Second, being an idiot doesnít prove a thing. 

To be honest, I canít prove to anyone else that the earth is round and it occurred to me that if the earth was indeed flat, I would indeed be an idiot.  Itís a simple logic tree:
    FACT: The earth is flat
        Person who believes the earth is flat: Genius
        Person who believes the earth is round: Idiot
    FACT: The earth is round
        Person who believes the earth is flat: Idiot
        Person who believes the earth is round: Genius

So, if the earth is flat, then I really am an idiot because I really can not get my head around that thought.  I canít figure out how to explain what I see on a day to day basis in any comprehensive consistent way.   I canít explain the phases of the moon or shadows I see on the moon in the waxing and waning phases.   I can not figure out how to write a computer program to predict the rise and set times of GPS satellites based on where I am on the earth without using a round earth model.  Iím a programmer at heart, and I canít seem to be able to write a single line of code for processing GPS data without a round earth model.  In fact, I have not seen a single workable equation from FET that can be use to estimate anything, even something as simple as the time of sunrise.

I have a simple mind, I can only hold so much in it at once.  I really need a computer program to help me with somethings like how to navigate, predict the weather, show me where to point my telescope in the sky to see interesting celestial objects, how to measure the distance between two GPS antennas down to the millimeter.  The problem I have is that the round earth model is simple enough for me to grasp and it works down to the millimeter level.  I can setup one GPS receiver in Colorado and another in California and have the data streamed to me here in Colorado.  And then by using RET, I can estimate the position of the GPS antenna in California down to about 3-4mm.  That means, if someone moves the antenna in California by even one cm (thatís less than an inch) I can tell them when they moved it, by how much and in which direction. 

I can only do GPS data processing using RET.  As far as I can tell it is impossible to implement even a single line of code using FET.  You would think that if the earth is indeed flat that the FET scientist would have a huge advantage of the RET one because they would have true understanding of reality.  But it seems that FET has added nothing to the understanding of Universe since Copernicanism.  Therefore due to the limited capacity of the neural network in my brain I have had to truncate the statistical branch that leads to the possibility that the earth is flat because the probability is too close to zero.  I have had to do that with a lot of things in order to have enough working space to do my work.  I would be more than willing to reactivate that branch if someone could show me how to monitor a GPS antenna to an accuracy of better than 3mm using FET, for then I would become a rich man.

So yes, if the earth is flat, I am an idiot. 

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28281
Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2015, 09:06:59 AM »
Actually you're not an idiot. All you would be if you found out the Earth was flat is, enlightened.
It doesn't matter how many things you test out that confirm a globe and none confirm a flat Earth.
The stuff you test out for your globe is the very stuff you were given for you to actually put to the test.
You don't have it all for a flat Earth, so it's not going to be as simple as trying to figure it out unless you start changing your stance on what potentials you can work with.

It's about distinguishing potential truths from potential magic instead of accepting magic as being the cause for the stuff you believe in.
When science does not have a definitive answer, don't just think they don't have it because it's not fully understood. Ask yourself why it's made out to be not fully understood yet everything appears to be predicted to the exactness of this not fully understood magical theory.

The reality is, anyone who believes in anything other than a rotatng global Earth, is classed as idiot according to mainstream science and the mass mainstream indoctrinated ways.


Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2015, 09:24:02 AM »
Actually you're not an idiot. All you would be if you found out the Earth was flat is, enlightened.
It doesn't matter how many things you test out that confirm a globe and none confirm a flat Earth.
The stuff you test out for your globe is the very stuff you were given for you to actually put to the test.
You don't have it all for a flat Earth, so it's not going to be as simple as trying to figure it out unless you start changing your stance on what potentials you can work with.

It's about distinguishing potential truths from potential magic instead of accepting magic as being the cause for the stuff you believe in.
When science does not have a definitive answer, don't just think they don't have it because it's not fully understood. Ask yourself why it's made out to be not fully understood yet everything appears to be predicted to the exactness of this not fully understood magical theory.

The reality is, anyone who believes in anything other than a rotatng global Earth, is classed as idiot according to mainstream science and the mass mainstream indoctrinated ways.
So my question to you would be, how do I a write a program to estimate the time of sunrise in any given city based on FET?

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mikeman7918

  • 5431
  • Round Earther
Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2015, 12:17:59 PM »
Actually you're not an idiot. All you would be if you found out the Earth was flat is, enlightened.
It doesn't matter how many things you test out that confirm a globe and none confirm a flat Earth.
The stuff you test out for your globe is the very stuff you were given for you to actually put to the test.
You don't have it all for a flat Earth, so it's not going to be as simple as trying to figure it out unless you start changing your stance on what potentials you can work with.

It's about distinguishing potential truths from potential magic instead of accepting magic as being the cause for the stuff you believe in.
When science does not have a definitive answer, don't just think they don't have it because it's not fully understood. Ask yourself why it's made out to be not fully understood yet everything appears to be predicted to the exactness of this not fully understood magical theory.

The reality is, anyone who believes in anything other than a rotatng global Earth, is classed as idiot according to mainstream science and the mass mainstream indoctrinated ways.

The reason that flat earthers are laughed at bu everyone is because there is so much evidence that the Earth is round, so many people would have to lie for that to be false and nobody has any reason to believe that 20% of the world's population is lying to them.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

*

iWitness

  • 1173
  • If the earth is round then what is your problem?
Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2015, 02:49:17 PM »
The reason man can predict the phases of the moon, sun and eclipses is simply because man has been keeping track of the movements of the heavenly bodies for thousands of years. They have noticed patterns and sometimes they are correct and other times they are wrong.

But regardless, the lights in the Firmament (Stars) have been commanded to their courses by the Most High God. Take note how they move according to the seasons then return back where they started year after year.

Your first mistake, is looking to the Heavens and assuming Earth is the same.

The Bible clearly says in Genesis on the first page of the Bible, that God created a Firmament in the midst of the waters to separate water above from water below, and called the Firamament "Sky" or "Heaven". Then God commanded the waters under the firmament to be gathered to one place and let dry land appear, which He called "Earth".

So you see, the stars which were placed inside of the Firmament are smaller than earth, while earth is simply the Dry land under the Firmament. They are two entirely different things. In the End, the Stars will fall to earth and the Sky will roll up like a scroll.

Quote
I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
Revelation 6:12-14



Now you can take the wide road, and deny the Word of God and reject the Gift of Salvation through the shed blood of God's one and only Son. Or, you can admit that maybe you don't know the Truth, repent and seek forgiveness from The Lord. For all Sin and Fall short of the Glory of God. It is not by works, but by Grace through Faith that you are Saved.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 02:50:56 PM by iWitness »
Disclaimer: I am confused. Everything I say is speculative and not admissible in a court of law; however, I am neither insane nor a threat to myself or others. I am simply curious about everything in life and enjoy talking about crazy shit. Oh, & btw I like turtles.

Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2015, 03:00:32 PM »
The reason man can predict the phases of the moon, sun and eclipses is simply because man has been keeping track of the movements of the heavenly bodies for thousands of years. They have noticed patterns and sometimes they are correct and other times they are wrong.

But regardless, the lights in the Firmament (Stars) have been commanded to their courses by the Most High God. Take note how they move according to the seasons then return back where they started year after year.

Your first mistake, is looking to the Heavens and assuming Earth is the same.

The Bible clearly says in Genesis on the first page of the Bible, that God created a Firmament in the midst of the waters to separate water above from water below, and called the Firamament "Sky" or "Heaven". Then God commanded the waters under the firmament to be gathered to one place and let dry land appear, which He called "Earth".

So you see, the stars which were placed inside of the Firmament are smaller than earth, while earth is simply the Dry land under the Firmament. They are two entirely different things. In the End, the Stars will fall to earth and the Sky will roll up like a scroll.

Quote
I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
Revelation 6:12-14



Now you can take the wide road, and deny the Word of God and reject the Gift of Salvation through the shed blood of God's one and only Son. Or, you can admit that maybe you don't know the Truth, repent and seek forgiveness from The Lord. For all Sin and Fall short of the Glory of God. It is not by works, but by Grace through Faith that you are Saved.
I am not afraid of the wrath of God, I curse him daily and yet I still feel the sweet breeze of his breath across my cheek as he kiss me each morning.  My God is more powerful than yours.  My God has command the stars and all the objects in heaven to obey the laws of physics.  Before the great consipirsy that started with Capurnacus, things were a mess I tell you.  But seriously, I thought this was a debate forum, not a forum about belief.  If FET is based on some religious weirdness, fine with me.  As long as you don't go gunning down cartoonists in Paris, fine by me.  Just don't try to pass it off as any sort of logical argument.

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mikeman7918

  • 5431
  • Round Earther
Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2015, 08:06:08 PM »
The reason man can predict the phases of the moon, sun and eclipses is simply because man has been keeping track of the movements of the heavenly bodies for thousands of years. They have noticed patterns and sometimes they are correct and other times they are wrong.

But regardless, the lights in the Firmament (Stars) have been commanded to their courses by the Most High God. Take note how they move according to the seasons then return back where they started year after year.

Your first mistake, is looking to the Heavens and assuming Earth is the same.

The Bible clearly says in Genesis on the first page of the Bible, that God created a Firmament in the midst of the waters to separate water above from water below, and called the Firamament "Sky" or "Heaven". Then God commanded the waters under the firmament to be gathered to one place and let dry land appear, which He called "Earth".

So you see, the stars which were placed inside of the Firmament are smaller than earth, while earth is simply the Dry land under the Firmament. They are two entirely different things. In the End, the Stars will fall to earth and the Sky will roll up like a scroll.

Quote
I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
Revelation 6:12-14



Now you can take the wide road, and deny the Word of God and reject the Gift of Salvation through the shed blood of God's one and only Son. Or, you can admit that maybe you don't know the Truth, repent and seek forgiveness from The Lord. For all Sin and Fall short of the Glory of God. It is not by works, but by Grace through Faith that you are Saved.

I believe in a God which doesn't punish those who simply don't know better, and and God who punishes the misinformed is not worth believing in.  Also, your model doesn't account for eclipses, stellar parallax, time zones, tides, and many other things.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2015, 02:42:07 AM »
Actually you're not an idiot. All you would be if you found out the Earth was flat is, enlightened.
It doesn't matter how many things you test out that confirm a globe and none confirm a flat Earth.
The stuff you test out for your globe is the very stuff you were given for you to actually put to the test.
You don't have it all for a flat Earth, so it's not going to be as simple as trying to figure it out unless you start changing your stance on what potentials you can work with.

It's about distinguishing potential truths from potential magic instead of accepting magic as being the cause for the stuff you believe in.
When science does not have a definitive answer, don't just think they don't have it because it's not fully understood. Ask yourself why it's made out to be not fully understood yet everything appears to be predicted to the exactness of this not fully understood magical theory.

The reality is, anyone who believes in anything other than a rotatng global Earth, is classed as idiot according to mainstream science and the mass mainstream indoctrinated ways.
So my question to you would be, how do I a write a program to estimate the time of sunrise in any given city based on FET?
Perhaps are more pertinent question would be, how can you have a sunsets and sunrises at all on a flat earth?  A question which scepti studiously avoids.
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

*

iWitness

  • 1173
  • If the earth is round then what is your problem?
Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2015, 07:53:36 AM »
Don't act like you don't know the difference between right and wrong. Your own conscience testifies that what you do is wrong, yet you continue to lie, cheat, steal, murder and commit adultery. You want to do what is right, but you are incapable why is that?

Do you think you are more merciful than God? Do you think God punishes people unjustly when he gives you chance after chance to repent and seek forgiveness throughout your life? How should a Holy and perfect God punish liars, murderers, thieves and adulterers then?

We are all deserving of Death, but God sent his Son into the world so you might see the light and be saved. Yet, you deny His Son and the gift of eternal life. That is why you will burn in hell for eternity.

Quote
ďFor God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.

ďThere is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in Godís one and only Son. And the judgment is based on this fact: Godís light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wantsĒ
- John 3:16-21


So tell me, why don't you believe in Jesus again?

Real historians that study history believe in Jesus. So why don't you?

Here is where Jesus was laid to rest:

The Garden Tomb in Israel discovered in the 1800s

Right next to Skull Hill (Golgotha):


You deny the Truth by calling Jesus a Liar. You stand condemned in the face of a Holy God.

Jesus is the heir to the Kingdom of Heaven and only He has the Authority to Pardon you for your Sins. Your problem is, that your pride prevents you from seeing the secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven, and you don't realize the weight of your actions. What would happen if you cursed the Roman Emperor 2000 years ago and was found out? You would be beheaded. So what if God is Real and you are Wrong?
Disclaimer: I am confused. Everything I say is speculative and not admissible in a court of law; however, I am neither insane nor a threat to myself or others. I am simply curious about everything in life and enjoy talking about crazy shit. Oh, & btw I like turtles.

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iWitness

  • 1173
  • If the earth is round then what is your problem?
Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2015, 07:59:10 AM »
Quote
As they were going out, they met a man from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross. They came to a place called Golgotha (which means ďthe place of the skullĒ).
Matthew 27:32-32

Quote
As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus. Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesusí body, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went away. Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were sitting there opposite the tomb.
Matthew 27:57:61
Disclaimer: I am confused. Everything I say is speculative and not admissible in a court of law; however, I am neither insane nor a threat to myself or others. I am simply curious about everything in life and enjoy talking about crazy shit. Oh, & btw I like turtles.

Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2015, 09:29:23 AM »
Quote
As they were going out, they met a man from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross. They came to a place called Golgotha (which means ďthe place of the skullĒ).
Matthew 27:32-32

Quote
As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus. Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesusí body, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went away. Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were sitting there opposite the tomb.
Matthew 27:57:61
This is forum about FET, not Jesus.  I think there must be other forums for that.  You make assumptions about who I am and assume that since I don't agree with you I must be doing all sorts of bad things and be some horrible tortured monster.   There may have been a Jesus, but I also know that the Bible was written by humans.  Most of the writings are actually attributed to an author, some are anonymous.  But there is no denying that the pen that wrote the bible was held by a human hand.  Whether the words are inspired by God is a whole other can of worms.


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kman

  • 990
  • Pastafarian
Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2015, 12:29:16 PM »
It is obviously impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God.

However, I can tell you that god is an asshole. His morals are horrible.

It's gods fault that this world has so much suffering. Why does he let so many people die, and let there be so much pain. Is it because Adam and Eve ate the fruit? In that case, why are we being punished for something our ancestors did? It's like saying that we punish the family and descendants of criminals.

Also, the whole Noah's Flood thing. Why did God kill everything on earth is a brutal fashion? What did people do to deserve it. Your god obviously has the power to make people disappear or die in a second. In that case, why did he feel the need to kill everyone in a scary, long and terrifying death such as drowning?

Sending non-believers to hell is also wrong. Should we just kill the ignorant and the stupid?

What's wrong with gay sex and masturbation? Sending people to hell just because they did something that doesn't harm anybody or anyone is obviously wrong.

And how about Deuteronomy 22:20-21? It calls for the stoning of people who lie about their virginity. What the hell? 

"But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her fatherís house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel, by playing the harlot in her fatherís house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you."

And what about that weird passage in which some kids make fun of a bald guy, and god kills them with a bunch of bears? Do you think that that's morally correct IWitness? Should we condemn kids to be mauled by bears?

"young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, "Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!" When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two lads of their number" (Kings 2:23-24)

I rest my case. God is an asshole.

Quote from: Excelsior John
[USA TODAY and NPR] are probaley just a bunch of flippin wite sapremist websites you RASCIST
Quote from: modestman
i don't understand what you are saying=therfore you are liar

*

mikeman7918

  • 5431
  • Round Earther
Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2015, 02:15:20 PM »
It is obviously impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God.

However, I can tell you that god is an asshole. His morals are horrible.

It's gods fault that this world has so much suffering. Why does he let so many people die, and let there be so much pain. Is it because Adam and Eve ate the fruit? In that case, why are we being punished for something our ancestors did? It's like saying that we punish the family and descendants of criminals.

Also, the whole Noah's Flood thing. Why did God kill everything on earth is a brutal fashion? What did people do to deserve it. Your god obviously has the power to make people disappear or die in a second. In that case, why did he feel the need to kill everyone in a scary, long and terrifying death such as drowning?

Sending non-believers to hell is also wrong. Should we just kill the ignorant and the stupid?

What's wrong with gay sex and masturbation? Sending people to hell just because they did something that doesn't harm anybody or anyone is obviously wrong.

And how about Deuteronomy 22:20-21? It calls for the stoning of people who lie about their virginity. What the hell? 

"But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her fatherís house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel, by playing the harlot in her fatherís house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you."

And what about that weird passage in which some kids make fun of a bald guy, and god kills them with a bunch of bears? Do you think that that's morally correct IWitness? Should we condemn kids to be mauled by bears?

"young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, "Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!" When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two lads of their number" (Kings 2:23-24)

I rest my case. God is an asshole.

God doesn't kill people, what kills people is diseases, weapons, poison, unfortunate accidents, ect...  All this stuff is not a punishment, it's meant to make us better.  We are here to learn from our mistakes and become better then we were before, the reason that evil exists is so we can free will.  The world wide flood happened not as a punishment but so the world could be a better place for future generations because it's not inhabited by an evil society.  If you think about it from a Christian standpoint, death isn't such a fundamentally bad thing, this is not to say that killing is OK but if someone dies they still exist somewhere.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

*

kman

  • 990
  • Pastafarian
Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2015, 02:26:04 PM »
It is obviously impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God.

However, I can tell you that god is an asshole. His morals are horrible.

It's gods fault that this world has so much suffering. Why does he let so many people die, and let there be so much pain. Is it because Adam and Eve ate the fruit? In that case, why are we being punished for something our ancestors did? It's like saying that we punish the family and descendants of criminals.

Also, the whole Noah's Flood thing. Why did God kill everything on earth is a brutal fashion? What did people do to deserve it. Your god obviously has the power to make people disappear or die in a second. In that case, why did he feel the need to kill everyone in a scary, long and terrifying death such as drowning?

Sending non-believers to hell is also wrong. Should we just kill the ignorant and the stupid?

What's wrong with gay sex and masturbation? Sending people to hell just because they did something that doesn't harm anybody or anyone is obviously wrong.

And how about Deuteronomy 22:20-21? It calls for the stoning of people who lie about their virginity. What the hell? 

"But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her fatherís house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel, by playing the harlot in her fatherís house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you."

And what about that weird passage in which some kids make fun of a bald guy, and god kills them with a bunch of bears? Do you think that that's morally correct IWitness? Should we condemn kids to be mauled by bears?

"young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, "Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!" When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two lads of their number" (Kings 2:23-24)

I rest my case. God is an asshole.

God doesn't kill people, what kills people is diseases, weapons, poison, unfortunate accidents, ect...  All this stuff is not a punishment, it's meant to make us better.  We are here to learn from our mistakes and become better then we were before, the reason that evil exists is so we can free will.  The world wide flood happened not as a punishment but so the world could be a better place for future generations because it's not inhabited by an evil society.  If you think about it from a Christian standpoint, death isn't such a fundamentally bad thing, this is not to say that killing is OK but if someone dies they still exist somewhere.
Well sure, God doesn't directly kill people. However, he has made a world in which there is much suffering. Also, he lets it happen. He just stands by and watches us burn.

Suffering is just to make us better? How many children have to die before we have learned our lesson?

About Noah's flood, why did God chose to kill everybody in such a horrific way? Couldn't he have just made everyone's heart stop?

Death is a certainly a bad thing. To die, you have to suffer first. Some people have to suffer for years before they finally die. Also, God gave us the ability to fear death. What's the point of that, if death is ok?

Your post seems to indicate that God puts us through these trials to make us better people. But he created us. Why didn't he create us already learned and wise? Why must he torture us to "make us better"? Why couldn't he have just made us "better"



Quote from: Excelsior John
[USA TODAY and NPR] are probaley just a bunch of flippin wite sapremist websites you RASCIST
Quote from: modestman
i don't understand what you are saying=therfore you are liar

*

mikeman7918

  • 5431
  • Round Earther
Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2015, 02:59:00 PM »
Well sure, God doesn't directly kill people. However, he has made a world in which there is much suffering. Also, he lets it happen. He just stands by and watches us burn.

Suffering is just to make us better? How many children have to die before we have learned our lesson?

About Noah's flood, why did God chose to kill everybody in such a horrific way? Couldn't he have just made everyone's heart stop?

Death is a certainly a bad thing. To die, you have to suffer first. Some people have to suffer for years before they finally die. Also, God gave us the ability to fear death. What's the point of that, if death is ok?

Your post seems to indicate that God puts us through these trials to make us better people. But he created us. Why didn't he create us already learned and wise? Why must he torture us to "make us better"? Why couldn't he have just made us "better"

"Well sure, God doesn't directly kill people. However, he has made a world in which there is much suffering. Also, he lets it happen. He just stands by and watches us burn."

It's not like God is laughing his head off while bad things happen to people, he lets it happen because he knows that it's necessary.

"Suffering is just to make us better? How many children have to die before we have learned our lesson?"

Children dying had nothing to do with you becoming a better person, if you put your hand on a hot stove it will hurt so you stop touching the stove and then you know not to do that again, that's why pain is not a bad thing.  If you did not feel pain then you would probably keep your hand on the stove until you had no hand and feeling a little bit of pain is better then not having a hand in the long run.  The same thing applies to why we are here on this (round) Earth.

"About Noah's flood, why did God chose to kill everybody in such a horrific way? Couldn't he have just made everyone's heart stop?"

There are not really a lot of ways to die that are pleasant, why should those people be an exception?

"Death is a certainly a bad thing. To die, you have to suffer first. Some people have to suffer for years before they finally die. Also, God gave us the ability to fear death. What's the point of that, if death is ok?"

The point of having a fear of death is so we don't go jump in front of a firing squad or something.  Once someone is dead, they won't have to ever suffer again.  Pain, although not fun, is only temporary.

"Your post seems to indicate that God puts us through these trials to make us better people. But he created us. Why didn't he create us already learned and wise? Why must he torture us to "make us better"? Why couldn't he have just made us "better""

So we can have free will.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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macrohard

  • 139
  • IQ over 180
Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2015, 05:33:13 PM »
The religious argument is moot, considering that 99.999% of Christians, Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Buddists, or other accept that the Earth is round.

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Vauxhall

  • 5914
  • dark matter does not exist
Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2015, 05:38:20 PM »
The religious argument is moot, considering that 99.999% of Christians, Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Buddists, or other accept that the Earth is round.

For someone with an "IQ over 180" I'd think you'd refrain from using an argumentum ad populum as your primary rebuttal. 

::)
Read the FAQS.

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macrohard

  • 139
  • IQ over 180
Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2015, 05:53:38 PM »
The religious argument is moot, considering that 99.999% of Christians, Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Buddists, or other accept that the Earth is round.

For someone with an "IQ over 180" I'd think you'd refrain from using an argumentum ad populum as your primary rebuttal. 

::)

The 180 IQ line is an inside joke, originating from this very forum.

Anyhow my argumentum ad populum wasn't meant as an attempt to prove round earth.  I was simply trying to stop the stream of off topic replies, as FE and religion are mutually exclusive.  One, or both, or neither could be true; the existence or nonexistence of one does not prove the other.

Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2015, 12:09:57 PM »
Well sure, God doesn't directly kill people. However, he has made a world in which there is much suffering. Also, he lets it happen. He just stands by and watches us burn.

Suffering is just to make us better? How many children have to die before we have learned our lesson?

About Noah's flood, why did God chose to kill everybody in such a horrific way? Couldn't he have just made everyone's heart stop?

Death is a certainly a bad thing. To die, you have to suffer first. Some people have to suffer for years before they finally die. Also, God gave us the ability to fear death. What's the point of that, if death is ok?

Your post seems to indicate that God puts us through these trials to make us better people. But he created us. Why didn't he create us already learned and wise? Why must he torture us to "make us better"? Why couldn't he have just made us "better"

"Well sure, God doesn't directly kill people. However, he has made a world in which there is much suffering. Also, he lets it happen. He just stands by and watches us burn."

It's not like God is laughing his head off while bad things happen to people, he lets it happen because he knows that it's necessary.

"Suffering is just to make us better? How many children have to die before we have learned our lesson?"

Children dying had nothing to do with you becoming a better person, if you put your hand on a hot stove it will hurt so you stop touching the stove and then you know not to do that again, that's why pain is not a bad thing.  If you did not feel pain then you would probably keep your hand on the stove until you had no hand and feeling a little bit of pain is better then not having a hand in the long run.  The same thing applies to why we are here on this (round) Earth.

"About Noah's flood, why did God chose to kill everybody in such a horrific way? Couldn't he have just made everyone's heart stop?"

There are not really a lot of ways to die that are pleasant, why should those people be an exception?

"Death is a certainly a bad thing. To die, you have to suffer first. Some people have to suffer for years before they finally die. Also, God gave us the ability to fear death. What's the point of that, if death is ok?"

The point of having a fear of death is so we don't go jump in front of a firing squad or something.  Once someone is dead, they won't have to ever suffer again.  Pain, although not fun, is only temporary.

"Your post seems to indicate that God puts us through these trials to make us better people. But he created us. Why didn't he create us already learned and wise? Why must he torture us to "make us better"? Why couldn't he have just made us "better""

So we can have free will.

I'm not sure what god you believe in, but it can't be all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful, etc. At least not as described by most believers. You repeatedly imply that there's a necessity for humans to go through these painful experiences. Even I can conceive of a world where we retain our free will yet we're free from the horrors of nature (not other humans, mind you), so why couldn't this deity you refer to do the same? Just because we have the ability to grow from bad experiences doesn't mean we should be subjected to so many unfair ones. Especially if it's all moot by the time we reach a so-called heaven anyway, where we're supposedly granted eternal happiness. You'd think we could just take the time to learn everything we would otherwise learn on earth over there.

A great many things about a god that created everything don't make sense, since most of us can come up with better ways to have created a world where humans can still be humans and yet have much less suffering and pain. I'm pretty convinced you've thought about this too, since you're clearly intelligent. But you seem to be currently stuck under the idea that "god works in mysterious ways", since you're trying to marry reality to the belief. I won't deny you the right to believe this, but I will surely point out problems with this line of thinking, should you bring it up.

To speak to the topic at hand, I'm almost completely convinced most so-called "flat earth believers", including some moderators, are simply pulling everyone's legs. In that sense, sure, you could argue they're considering us idiots for taking them seriously. I remember a time when the real proponents of this hypothesis were serious about discussing a flat earth and actually tried to find solutions to problems with the hypothesis. Now, however, it's all wordplay on their part, masked sarcastic comments as well as a general disinterest in discussing the issues altogether. I'm fairly convinced at least a few FEers don't even believe the hypothesis and they possibly never have.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 12:18:39 PM by Say What »

Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2015, 12:46:46 PM »
I just want to point out one thing. Ive just come into this theory in the past few days, and Ive just taken a step back and read countless arguments for both sides, and Im starting to see this: Both theories are having a hard time disproving one another. Thats because the laws of physics contained in both theories work when applied within the context of each theory. For example: The Throwing Ball experiment. FE's say that the Earth is Flat because when you throw a ball up in the air, it comes right back down to you, giving the notion that the Earth isnt moving. However, RE's have gravity, wind resistance, inertia, and planet speed to account for this like the Moving Train/Ball trick. If youre in a train and two people throw a ball towards each other, the time it takes the ball to travel is the exact same in both directions. This is basically a similar case like that of Particle Physics/Quantum Mechanics vs Einsteins Theory of Relativity. Neither Theory works with each other perfectly, but they both kind of just work within the context of their own Theory. Thats why weve been developing String Theory, to try to connect the two. We need to remove everything that we know about this planet and all of us go out and study it. We need at least Two weather balloons, and two people (preferably more). We need those people to stand in opposite places on Earth. Attach the best cameras/telescopes to the Weather balloons. When the Balloons go up, if they can see each other, the earth is flat. IF they cant , the earth is round. This should be a simple experiment.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 12:48:40 PM by Havoc70000 »

Re: The earth is flat and I'm an idiot
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2015, 01:09:22 PM »
I just want to point out one thing. Ive just come into this theory in the past few days, and Ive just taken a step back and read countless arguments for both sides, and Im starting to see this: Both theories are having a hard time disproving one another. Thats because the laws of physics contained in both theories work when applied within the context of each theory. For example: The Throwing Ball experiment. FE's say that the Earth is Flat because when you throw a ball up in the air, it comes right back down to you, giving the notion that the Earth isnt moving. However, RE's have gravity, wind resistance, inertia, and planet speed to account for this like the Moving Train/Ball trick. If youre in a train and two people throw a ball towards each other, the time it takes the ball to travel is the exact same in both directions. This is basically a similar case like that of Particle Physics/Quantum Mechanics vs Einsteins Theory of Relativity. Neither Theory works with each other perfectly, but they both kind of just work within the context of their own Theory. Thats why weve been developing String Theory, to try to connect the two. We need to remove everything that we know about this planet and all of us go out and study it. We need at least Two weather balloons, and two people (preferably more). We need those people to stand in opposite places on Earth. Attach the best cameras/telescopes to the Weather balloons. When the Balloons go up, if they can see each other, the earth is flat. IF they cant , the earth is round. This should be a simple experiment.

You might have not read a lot of the leading reasons for a flat earth fitting current observations: For one, most FEers agree that you can't see things at a great distance because air gets in the way and obscures the view. This argument alone would invalidate your experiment. Second, the FE hypothesis states that things fall down because the earth is moving upwards, making things "fall". Now, it's been a while since I've seen this second point brought up so maybe they changed their stance on why things fall down, but I doubt they believe it's as simple as "it's because the earth isn't moving".