DEms RULE

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DEms RULE
« on: November 10, 2006, 06:15:34 AM »
WHo got owned in the elections, republicans...by the ...im wonering if there is any realtionship between being an FE and being either dem or rep
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beast

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DEms RULE
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2006, 06:45:11 AM »
I suspect from what I've read that the FEers on this site are very much predominately democrats.  I have no idea about the REers.

Personally I was stoked with the election results.  I just hope we get another Clinton in presidential elections 2008.

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Nomad

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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2006, 07:54:23 AM »
Quote from: "beast"
I suspect from what I've read that the FEers on this site are very much predominately democrats.  I have no idea about the REers.


I guess you could say I'm undecided.  I would have said "Independent" before, but that was before I realized that Independent was an actual party.  I don't subscribe to any parties.  I prefer to evaluate the individual rather than the whole that the individual represents.  I always vote for who I think will get the job done, regardless of party.  If that means Republican, Democrat, Independent, Liberterian, or whatever.

And I'm also getting tired of the "conservative" and "liberal" bullshit, but it seems that others are starting to pick up on this too--

Conservative != Republican
Liberal != Democrat

--Or any other variations.  Bush is Republican, but is anything but conservative.  There are plenty of liberal republicans, and conservative democrats.  The use of those two aforementioned words is moot anymore.

Quote from: "TheDerangedWang"
WHo got owned in the elections, republicans...


I wouldn't get too excited just yet.  Power corrupts.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  It doesn't really matter who gets a hold on this country the way things are set up.  Sooner or later it ends up being run by people with their own agendas, rather than people wanting to help the people.
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cadmium_blimp

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DEms RULE
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2006, 08:55:51 AM »
Democrats aren't liberal and Republicans aren't conservative.  Vote Libertarian.

Quote from: Commander Taggart
Never give up, never surrender!

DEms RULE
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2006, 10:32:23 AM »
I am not democrat, not republican, I am Authoritarian!
he man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Advocatus Diaboli

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dysfunction

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DEms RULE
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2006, 12:22:38 PM »
Quote from: "cadmium_blimp"
Democrats aren't liberal and Republicans aren't conservative.  Vote Libertarian.


I'll agree with the libertarian ideals of the government butting out of people's lives, but how can you justify no government regulation of business? We've already seen what unregulated business looks like, and it isn't pretty. Should healthcare work entirely on the free-market system as well? Then what about people who can't afford it?
the cake is a lie

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beast

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DEms RULE
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2006, 03:08:47 PM »
Americans have such a warped opinion on the word "liberal".  Actually maybe I'm the one with the warped opinion.  It's also confusion because in Australia our more conservative party is called the "Liberal" party.  Anyway my definition of a good (realistic) government would be one that gives freedoms to the people but also one that believes in strong social services and government regulation of business.  When I hear people talk about "liberal" governments, I always assume this means that try to give strong rights to their people and probably that they are a progressive government with good social values.  I wouldn't call a government that privatises social services and deregulates business a "liberal" government at all.  I would call that a right wing conservative government (or a "Liberal" government).

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dysfunction

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DEms RULE
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2006, 03:36:00 PM »
Americans have the same definition of liberal then, beast. "libertarian" and liberal are not the same thing, in fact they are opposites in some respects.
the cake is a lie

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beast

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DEms RULE
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2006, 03:40:55 PM »
Cool, that makes sense.  Like how in Australia a Liberal is different to a liberal.  :?

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dysfunction

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DEms RULE
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2006, 03:52:30 PM »
The strictest definition of a liberal in the US would be someone who is for individual rights, minimal government intervention in individual's lives, but socialization (to one degree or another) of necessary services such as healthcare, education, etc, and close regulation of business.
Conservatives are for government enforcement of traditional mores and values, low taxes to generate long-term economic growth, small government with small, responsible expenditure, and little or no regulation of business in a nearly pure free-market economy.
One should note that the majority of modern American conservatives, known as 'neo-cons', are for almost none of these things. They still support traditional values, but this is little more than pandering to their fundamentalist base, they still oppose socialization of services, and they still support low taxes- but only for the upper classes. They do not practice fiscal responsibility in any sense of the word, and in fact the Democrats, the more liberal party in this country, are now often in favor of less expenditure than the conservative Republicans (largely dominated by neo-cons), and seem generally to support big government while claiming to favor small government.
Libertarians are, like liberals, against government intervention in individual lives, but like true conservatives favor fiscal responsibility, little regulation of business or socialization of services, and small government.
the cake is a lie

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cadmium_blimp

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DEms RULE
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2006, 08:48:18 PM »
I'd rather my government be as small as it possibly can be.  I don't want them screwing around with me, and if there is anything I know, it's that a big government will always find a way to screw around with you.  I'll agree there needs to be a balance.  Companies can't have free reign, but they shouldn't be completely restricted, either.

Quote from: Commander Taggart
Never give up, never surrender!

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dysfunction

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DEms RULE
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2006, 09:56:20 PM »
Ok, fair enough.
the cake is a lie

DEms RULE
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2006, 10:00:48 PM »
Quote
Personally I was stoked with the election results. I just hope we get another Clinton in presidential elections 2008.


As long as it's not a Hillary.
 captain is sailing through the arctic. The first mate runs up and says to him, "captain, there is an iceberg dead ahead. What should we do?" The captain looks at the iceberg, then glances at his map and says, "there's no iceberg here! Keep going!"

DEms RULE
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2006, 10:22:41 PM »
They say that the Democrats are liberals, and the Republicans are conservative. I say that thos analogies are relative. This is to say that the republicans are conservative only as far as how the government gets the money to do it's job. They want to give all the money back to the taxpayers. They spend like any other politician, and just borrow money driving us further into debt. Historically, the debt has increased with every republican in administrative power since Reagan. I believe that it may have always been that way, but that is as far as I can rememeber (head injury in 1988) off of the top of my head.

Liberals spend the money, just like the others, but have a logical way to acquire the money, via taxes. That realistically is the only way to acquire money for the government to do it's job. In turn, they actually spend the money to pay down the huge ass debt.


In our current government system, the balance of power needs to be true balance, which is something we have not had for the past several years.

We have had Republican control of the entire government system since the last congressional election, and look where it got us? 5 times the debt that we had when Bushy boy started. Bush gave a straight across the board tax cut. Nice thought. Does anyone remember the $300 check that we got fromt he IRS in 2002 or 2003? That was the tax cut for the average citizen making $50,000 annually.

The really big checks went to the businesses, corporations, millionaires, etc. Lots of money for the few, very little money for everyone else. Everyone voted for that big ass tax break, but the major proportion of the US population is in the middle class socioeconomic groups.

People lose their brains when they hear that they would get more money, but if they really thought about it, they would see that they did not get any further, since inflation has grown dramatically over the past 6 years, due tot he oil investors taking advantage of the apparent Oil crunch and the average american freaking out about it.

Oil goes up, shipping costs go up, end consumer products go up.

Then there is the Minimum wage, raise it, and what happens? Does everyone really think that it will give them more money? Hell no! The Minimum wage rises, and prices for products and services go up in equal proportion. Business owners do this all the time, every time that the minimum wage goes up.

A loaf of bread has doubled, gallon of gas has tripled, how many here can remember the 25 cent can of pop? That was Coke or Pepsi kids. Not the swill like Safewaqy select or something like that.

Yeah the minimum wage hike is supposed to help the less advantaged? Bullshit! it takes more money from the poor as a result.

Then the War. Does anyone rememebr that Osama Bin Laden hasn't been heard from but in audio tapes, and in ONE video tape of the man in a building, the same age as when he filmed his last speech? Does anyone remember that he had to get a dialysis machine?

Dialysis is a last ditch effort to save a human life, that most of the time only works for 3 years under the best sterile, and regular conditions.

I believe that he is dead, and the administration used the momentum of us already in a conflict to invade iraq. We all know that the iraq was necessary eventually, but the asshole lied to us to get us there in 2003, using fear tactics, and dception.

Politicians lie, plain and simple. Fiscally the Democrats seem to be a bit more honest about financial reality, Republicans seem to build on the Military better.

But the whole mess is really getting muddied yup when they bring in the freaking religious card in. They are using religion to win elections. Hey! I thought we managed to get Religion out of politics.

That is the thing that really pisses me off.

Vote according to a man (or woman) 's Merits, not their political party. Political parties are used to make the Stupid voter blindly follow party lines, and disregard things like electing a complete moron into office! (Yeah I am bitching about Bush again)

DEms RULE
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2006, 10:55:06 AM »
If Hillary gets elected, I'm moving to Canada.

And I'm Texan.
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"Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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cadmium_blimp

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DEms RULE
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2006, 10:56:49 AM »
In Missouri there was a man running for state legislature.  His name?  Chief Wana Dubie.

Quote from: Commander Taggart
Never give up, never surrender!

DEms RULE
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2006, 10:58:08 AM »
Ok, there are a lot of fellow Americans here.  Now I try to not be racist as much as possible, but how do you guys feel about Senator Obama possibly being president?
he man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Advocatus Diaboli

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cadmium_blimp

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DEms RULE
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2006, 11:01:48 AM »
Was he born in America?  I would vote for Colin Powell.

Quote from: Commander Taggart
Never give up, never surrender!

DEms RULE
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2006, 11:08:32 AM »
If he is thinkin about running for presidency, I assume everything is in order for such a campaign

I would also vote for Powell, despite very good secretaries of state making very bad presidents in America's history
he man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Advocatus Diaboli

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Nomad

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« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2006, 11:10:10 AM »
After watching Man of the Year, I would TOTALLY vote for Robin Williams.  I wonder how many write-ins for "Tom Dobbs" they'll get in the 2008 elections.
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dysfunction

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DEms RULE
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2006, 11:13:48 AM »
Obama needs more experience. He's a very intelligent person who has some good ideas about how to run things in general, but he's rather vague on specifics. I strongly agree with Charles Krauthammer's proposal; Obama should run for Democratic nomination in '08, lose the primary, run as VP with the primary winner, win, then run for Pres next term with 4 more years of experience under his belt.
the cake is a lie

DEms RULE
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2006, 11:22:35 AM »
The only problem with that is we cannot be sure that there will be the same love for the Democrats as there is now in '12
he man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Advocatus Diaboli

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beast

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DEms RULE
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2006, 09:06:41 PM »
Quote from: "CrimsonKing"
Ok, there are a lot of fellow Americans here.  Now I try to not be racist as much as possible, but how do you guys feel about Senator Obama possibly being president?


I think I understand what you're saying but I wouldn't want to misinterpret it and make an unfair judgement of you.  Can you clarify what racism has to do with it and how you feel about Obama being president in the context of that post.

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dysfunction

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DEms RULE
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2006, 09:27:42 PM »
I'm not sure how much US history you know, beast. If elected in 2008, Obama would be America's first black president.
the cake is a lie

DEms RULE
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2006, 09:48:38 PM »
a majority of the dems that got elected were pro-life, pro-christian, pro-gun, and pro-business. I don't know what the fuck you dumb liberals are so happy about.

DEms RULE
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2006, 09:49:11 PM »
Quote from: "dysfunction"
I'm not sure how much US history you know, beast. If elected in 2008, Obama would be America's first black president.



god no, he's a fucking kid.

DEms RULE
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2006, 10:16:40 PM »
Quote from: "troubadour"
a majority of the dems that got elected were pro-life, pro-christian, pro-gun, and pro-business. I don't know what the frak you dumb liberals are so happy about.


I believe that the issue primarily is that due to a complete incompetent in office, that preaches Bilateral cooperation with both parties, yet:

Abuses the power of an entirely republican controlled government, and:
screws our economy to hell,

Lies to the entire world on extemely important issues,

Uses the war on terror as a catalyst for persian gulf II (essentially fixing what we should have done in 1991) by scaring the American public into thinking that Hussein has something to do with 9/11,

Not managing the war well after going in and stomping them,

Sending our boys into the theater with inadequate protection (where they had to buy their own damn body armor at first until the public bitched)

Borrowing money to fund two MAJOR military conflicts, right after cutting taxes that got rid of the surplus all together, sending our national debt into another trillion.

Managing to Piss off every OPEC country, which we are so damn dependent on theri oil.

Allowing the American Oil investors to have a ball and triple the cost of gas and diesel, which drove prices of everything  beyond any reasonable margin. (By the way, he is an oil investor too)

Managing to piss off the friends we have,

Managing to piss off every pre nuclear armed country into accelerating their weapons programs to the point of actually having Nuclear arms, and being a threat to the US.


I have a problem with the asshole, and I just want him to have a balanced government to keep him under control!

DEms RULE
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2006, 10:44:13 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "CrimsonKing"
Ok, there are a lot of fellow Americans here.  Now I try to not be racist as much as possible, but how do you guys feel about Senator Obama possibly being president?


I think I understand what you're saying but I wouldn't want to misinterpret it and make an unfair judgement of you.  Can you clarify what racism has to do with it and how you feel about Obama being president in the context of that post.


Basically, I don't think that the US is truly ready for a black president, simple as that, especially not one so young.
he man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Advocatus Diaboli

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beast

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DEms RULE
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2006, 11:08:50 PM »
Quote from: "CrimsonKing"
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "CrimsonKing"
Ok, there are a lot of fellow Americans here.  Now I try to not be racist as much as possible, but how do you guys feel about Senator Obama possibly being president?


I think I understand what you're saying but I wouldn't want to misinterpret it and make an unfair judgement of you.  Can you clarify what racism has to do with it and how you feel about Obama being president in the context of that post.


Basically, I don't think that the US is truly ready for a black president, simple as that, especially not one so young.


What does the colour of his skin have to do with anything?

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Nomad

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« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2006, 11:14:17 PM »
Nothing, but unfortunately not everyone in America feels the same way.
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