I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge

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rabinoz

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11790 on: February 18, 2020, 02:45:26 AM »
You said  "Only one way robotic space travel is possible into one orbit around Earth.
They are not in  one orbit around Earth! They are in thousands of separate orbits. Satellites around Earth
You are right. All orbits are around Earth.
[/quote]
No! YOU said into one orbit around Earth.
And they are not in one orbit around Earth! They are in thousands of separate orbits.   Satellites around Earth

Quote from: Heiwa
And that is all that can be achieved when launching spacecrafts into the Universe.
Rubbish! Forget "the Universe" and stich to the Solar System.
From either LEO or GEO it's and easy matter to get to most parts of the Solar System and I cannot understand how can simply deny it.

Much of the "effort" of getting to most places in the Solar system is simply getting to LEO.

If you understand Delta-V budgets, though I guess you don't, this should make it clear:

Delta-V budget for Solar System

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markjo

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11791 on: February 18, 2020, 07:13:58 AM »
There is far more demand for electric cars then Tesla can fulfil.
There is far more demand for pickup trucks than GM can fulfill.  OMG, GM is doomed!!

Downgrading expectations is simply fudging the numbers to make you look like your performing well and on time.
Actually, the article said that Tesla exceeded expectations.

Want a 'Tesla' car? Expect to be put on a waiting list years long. You cant simply rock up and order a new one to arrive next week
From what I can tell, depending on the model and options you want, the wait can be as long as 6-10 weeks, but standard configurations should be 2-4 weeks.

So when is Space X taking passengers to space?
They're targeting May 7 for their Demo 2 flight taking 2 astronauts to the ISS, but the actual flight might be sooner or later depending on how long NASA decides that the two astronauts will stay. 

Richard Branson was also going to do something with his Virgin business. Yet, nothing, nada, zip, zilch, zero
Actually, VG is finishing the cabin upgrades to SS2 and is moving stuff to their space port for further testing.  They're hoping to have at lest one commercial flight by the end of this year.

And from what I heard, the passengers would only get to within a pubic hairs distance past what is deemed outer space. The alleged asstronuts floating in that tin can is still a few hundred kilomteres above where these flights would take anyone.
There is still debate as to where "space", but 50 miles is recognized by the US.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11792 on: February 18, 2020, 08:25:26 AM »

There is still debate as to where "space", but 50 miles is recognized by the US.

To win my Challenge you have to get to the Moon and/or planet Mars.
If you do it, I'll pay you €1M (topic).

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markjo

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11793 on: February 18, 2020, 09:39:07 AM »

There is still debate as to where "space", but 50 miles is recognized by the US.

To win my Challenge you have to get to the Moon and/or planet Mars.
If you do it, I'll pay you €1M (topic).
Getting to the moon or mars will cost many billions more than winning your "challenge" would pay.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11794 on: February 18, 2020, 11:05:36 AM »

There is still debate as to where "space", but 50 miles is recognized by the US.

To win my Challenge you have to get to the Moon and/or planet Mars.
If you do it, I'll pay you €1M (topic).
Getting to the moon or mars will cost many billions more than winning your "challenge" would pay.
You are right.
So it is not possible!

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Stash

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11795 on: February 18, 2020, 11:59:49 AM »

There is still debate as to where "space", but 50 miles is recognized by the US.

To win my Challenge you have to get to the Moon and/or planet Mars.
If you do it, I'll pay you €1M (topic).
Getting to the moon or mars will cost many billions more than winning your "challenge" would pay.
You are right.
So it is not possible!

Fortunately we already spent the money:

In 1973, NASA submitted congressional testimony reporting the total cost of Project Apollo as $25.4 billion (about $153 billion in 2018 dollars).

So we don't need your paltry non-existent €1M.

Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11796 on: February 18, 2020, 01:10:25 PM »
Didnt spacex spit out a 50M reward?

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markjo

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11797 on: February 18, 2020, 03:08:58 PM »

There is still debate as to where "space", but 50 miles is recognized by the US.

To win my Challenge you have to get to the Moon and/or planet Mars.
If you do it, I'll pay you €1M (topic).
Getting to the moon or mars will cost many billions more than winning your "challenge" would pay.
You are right.
So it is not possible!
Not a piddling €1M.  But you would be amazed what you can do when you have a virtually unlimited budget.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Stash

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11798 on: February 18, 2020, 03:43:11 PM »
Didnt spacex spit out a 50M reward?

Not sure about that, but NASA coughed up $40m+ back in October for R&D:

"NASA awards $43.2M to Blue Origin, SpaceX and others for tech to take us to the Moon and Mars"
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/01/nasa-awards-43-2m-to-blue-origin-spacex-and-others-for-tech-to-take-us-to-the-moon-and-mars/

As well the group that built what is now the Virgin Galactic rig won the $10m X Prize some years back.

There's plenty of funding out there for legitimate endeavors in stark contrast to this 'challenge'.

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rabinoz

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11799 on: February 18, 2020, 05:05:20 PM »
Didnt spacex spit out a 50M reward?

Not sure about that, but NASA coughed up $40m+ back in October for R&D:

"NASA awards $43.2M to Blue Origin, SpaceX and others for tech to take us to the Moon and Mars"
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/01/nasa-awards-43-2m-to-blue-origin-spacex-and-others-for-tech-to-take-us-to-the-moon-and-mars/

As well the group that built what is now the Virgin Galactic rig won the $10m X Prize some years back.

There's plenty of funding out there for legitimate endeavors in stark contrast to this 'challenge'.
Did you see:
Quote
SpaceX signs deal to fly 4 space tourists around Earth in about two years

KEY POINTS
  • SpaceX plans to fly four privately-paying space tourists to orbit in its Crew Dragon capsule.

  • The customers will be brokered through Space Adventures, which has flown private citizens to the International Space Station using Russian spacecraft.

  • Space Adventures said the mission would last five days and is expected to launch between “late-2021 to mid-2022” from Florida’s Cape Canaveral spaceport.
<<etc>>

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11800 on: February 19, 2020, 05:46:53 AM »

There is still debate as to where "space", but 50 miles is recognized by the US.

To win my Challenge you have to get to the Moon and/or planet Mars.
If you do it, I'll pay you €1M (topic).
Getting to the moon or mars will cost many billions more than winning your "challenge" would pay.
You are right.
So it is not possible!

Fortunately we already spent the money:

In 1973, NASA submitted congressional testimony reporting the total cost of Project Apollo as $25.4 billion (about $153 billion in 2018 dollars).

So we don't need your paltry non-existent €1M.
I don't know who you are and my €1M is only to encourage scientists to do some fuel calculations how to fly around in space.
It is best to do the calculations on land before flying off.

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Yes

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11801 on: February 19, 2020, 05:56:37 AM »
I don't know who you are and my €1M is only to encourage scientists to do some fuel calculations how to fly around in space.
It is best to do the calculations on land before flying off.
We already did those calculations.  I showed you the results and you just dismissed them.  How discouraging!  :'(
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markjo

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11802 on: February 19, 2020, 06:44:57 AM »
I don't know who you are and my €1M is only to encourage scientists to do some fuel calculations how to fly around in space.
It is best to do the calculations on land before flying off.
Yes, that's why rockets are designed to carry the amount of propellant that the engineers calculated would be needed for their missions (usually around 85% of the total mass of the rocket).
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11803 on: February 19, 2020, 07:11:34 AM »
I don't know who you are and my €1M is only to encourage scientists to do some fueel calculations how to fly around in space.
It is best to do the calculations on land before flying off.
Yes, that's why rockets are designed to carry the amount of propellant that the engineers calculated would be needed for their missions (usually around 85% of the total mass of the rocket).
No, rockets are only designed to catapult their spacecrafts into Earth orbits. After that it gets very difficult (topic).
That's why nobody wins my Challenge.
Once in orbit there is no way to go anywhere else, land on moons, asteroids or planets and then return home.

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Yes

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11804 on: February 19, 2020, 08:45:18 AM »
Once in orbit there is no way to go anywhere else, land on moons, asteroids or planets and then return home.
Remind me again why you believe that.  Is it because you think that it's impossible to not be in earth's orbit, and that the only way to return to earth is a straight down?
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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11805 on: February 19, 2020, 11:31:00 AM »
I don't know who you are and my €1M is only to encourage scientists to do some fuel calculations how to fly around in space.
It is best to do the calculations on land before flying off.
We already did those calculations.  I showed you the results and you just dismissed them.  How discouraging!  :'(
No, you never arrived anywhere!

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11806 on: February 19, 2020, 11:35:21 AM »
Once in orbit there is no way to go anywhere else, land on moons, asteroids or planets and then return home.
Remind me again why you believe that.  Is it because you think that it's impossible to not be in earth's orbit, and that the only way to return to earth is a straight down?
Easy. Once in Earth orbit, always in Earth orbit. No way to return back down on Earth.
Just ask Yuri Gagarin. I describe his fairy tale at my website.

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Yes

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11807 on: February 19, 2020, 11:45:00 AM »
I thought you said that objects in space had to come down to earth at 90 degree angle from the ground.  I am quite sure you said that.

But I'm not going to verify.  Honestly, I like this new fantasy better.  What goes up, must stay up.  Has a poetic ring to it.
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markjo

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11808 on: February 19, 2020, 11:45:12 AM »
I don't know who you are and my €1M is only to encourage scientists to do some fueel calculations how to fly around in space.
It is best to do the calculations on land before flying off.
Yes, that's why rockets are designed to carry the amount of propellant that the engineers calculated would be needed for their missions (usually around 85% of the total mass of the rocket).
No, rockets are only designed to catapult their spacecrafts into Earth orbits.
That's why the spacecraft carry their own fuel supply.  So they can get themselves into their proper orbits.

After that it gets very difficult (topic).
Not nearly as difficult as convincing you that you're wrong about manned spaceflight.

That's why nobody wins my Challenge.
No, that isn't why.

Once in orbit there is no way to go anywhere else, land on moons, asteroids or planets and then return home.
Yes, there is.  You just refuse to believe it.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11809 on: February 19, 2020, 06:59:49 PM »
5yo challenge
Adjust for inflation and market std

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rabinoz

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11810 on: February 19, 2020, 07:46:13 PM »
Easy. Once in Earth orbit, always in Earth orbit. No way to return back down on Earth.
Just ask Yuri Gagarin. I describe his fairy tale at my website.
No, you describe your fairy tale at your useless website.
All I've found there are more fairy tales that say no more than that YOU are unable to understand anything about these topics.

If you disagree, please explain here, with the relevant physics etc, why
"Once in Earth orbit, always in Earth orbit" and why there is "No way to return back down on Earth".

If you can't logically explain it here we'll know you've beem talking hogwash all along!

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11811 on: February 19, 2020, 10:49:52 PM »
I wonder if the old man will live long enough to see daily manned flights to space?

I think we are only 2 -5 years away from monthly tourist flights to space. Then we will have thousands of non-governmental people that need to be "in the conspiracy" added every year.
 

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11812 on: February 19, 2020, 11:51:58 PM »
I wonder if the old man will live long enough to see daily manned flights to space?

I think we are only 2 -5 years away from monthly tourist flights to space. Then we will have thousands of non-governmental people that need to be "in the conspiracy" added every year.
I think tourist flights to space are impossible. No way to get back down on Earth. And what shall a tourist do in space? There is nothing there.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11813 on: February 19, 2020, 11:58:38 PM »

 And what shall a tourist do in space?

Use the toilet?

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rabinoz

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11814 on: February 20, 2020, 12:12:19 AM »
I wonder if the old man will live long enough to see daily manned flights to space?

I think we are only 2 -5 years away from monthly tourist flights to space. Then we will have thousands of non-governmental people that need to be "in the conspiracy" added every year.
I think tourist flights to space are impossible. No way to get back down on Earth. And what shall a tourist do in space? There is nothing there.
But the view would be "Out of this World ;)!"

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rabinoz

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11815 on: February 20, 2020, 12:12:54 AM »
I wonder if the old man will live long enough to see daily manned flights to space?

I think we are only 2 -5 years away from monthly tourist flights to space. Then we will have thousands of non-governmental people that need to be "in the conspiracy" added every year.
Not monthly but:
Quote
SpaceX signs deal to fly 4 space tourists around Earth in about two years

KEY POINTS
  • SpaceX plans to fly four privately-paying space tourists to orbit in its Crew Dragon capsule.

  • The customers will be brokered through Space Adventures, which has flown private citizens to the International Space Station using Russian spacecraft.

  • Space Adventures said the mission would last five days and is expected to launch between “late-2021 to mid-2022” from Florida’s Cape Canaveral spaceport.
<<etc>>
I'm probably older than Heiwa but I hope to see the day when humans in space deniers can crowdfund a few representatives to "prove that Globe" En varke vlieg miskien! ;D!
Nie 'n sneeuvlokkie se kans in Hades nie! of any daring to do that!
Flat-Earthers won't even crowdfund a visit to the South Pole nor even a circumnavigation of Antarctica to prove their belief.

Both Heiwa and flat-Earthers would be too scared of having their beliefs shattered - their whole "Worldview" destroyed.


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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11816 on: February 20, 2020, 12:44:22 AM »
I wonder if the old man will live long enough to see daily manned flights to space?

I think we are only 2 -5 years away from monthly tourist flights to space. Then we will have thousands of non-governmental people that need to be "in the conspiracy" added every year.
Not monthly but:
Quote
SpaceX signs deal to fly 4 space tourists around Earth in about two years

KEY POINTS
  • SpaceX plans to fly four privately-paying space tourists to orbit in its Crew Dragon capsule.

  • The customers will be brokered through Space Adventures, which has flown private citizens to the International Space Station using Russian spacecraft.

  • Space Adventures said the mission would last five days and is expected to launch between “late-2021 to mid-2022” from Florida’s Cape Canaveral spaceport.
<<etc>>
I'm probably older than Heiwa but I hope to see the day when humans in space deniers can crowdfund a few representatives to "prove that Globe" En varke vlieg miskien! ;D!
Nie 'n sneeuvlokkie se kans in Hades nie! of any daring to do that!
Flat-Earthers won't even crowdfund a visit to the South Pole nor even a circumnavigation of Antarctica to prove their belief.

Both Heiwa and flat-Earthers would be too scared of having their beliefs shattered - their whole "Worldview" destroyed.


Tourists on Dragon will probably happen fairly soon (year or 2) but Im afraid the seat price will still be very high. $10-20million.
The real fun starts with starship, when you have a 100% reusable rocket architecture, and only need to consider the cost of fuel and investment cost for every launch.
I seem to be half the age of either of you, so good chance i will get to see a lot going forward.

Hopefully

-People on Mars.
-People on Moon (I have not lived to see that yet)
-People in deep space habitats. (maybe?)
-Asteroid mining
-Industry in space

The last one is what I really want to see. If we can justify the financial cost of getting above earth orbit, then our future is set. As long as we are a one planet species, we have little chance of long term survival.


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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11817 on: February 20, 2020, 03:40:05 AM »
I wonder if the old man will live long enough to see daily manned flights to space?

I think we are only 2 -5 years away from monthly tourist flights to space. Then we will have thousands of non-governmental people that need to be "in the conspiracy" added every year.
Not monthly but:
Quote
SpaceX signs deal to fly 4 space tourists around Earth in about two years

KEY POINTS
  • SpaceX plans to fly four privately-paying space tourists to orbit in its Crew Dragon capsule.

  • The customers will be brokered through Space Adventures, which has flown private citizens to the International Space Station using Russian spacecraft.

  • Space Adventures said the mission would last five days and is expected to launch between “late-2021 to mid-2022” from Florida’s Cape Canaveral spaceport.
<<etc>>
I'm probably older than Heiwa but I hope to see the day when humans in space deniers can crowdfund a few representatives to "prove that Globe" En varke vlieg miskien! ;D!
Nie 'n sneeuvlokkie se kans in Hades nie! of any daring to do that!
Flat-Earthers won't even crowdfund a visit to the South Pole nor even a circumnavigation of Antarctica to prove their belief.

Both Heiwa and flat-Earthers would be too scared of having their beliefs shattered - their whole "Worldview" destroyed.
Hm, I am not a flat-Earther. I live in southern France since 42 years with a great view of the Mediterranean/Ligurian sea, where the Sun rises above the horizon every day outside my kitchen window. In January the Sun rises at about 8 o'clock straight out but in June the Sun rises at about 5 o'clock much to the left where Italy is. In north Norway the Sun doesn't rise anywhere in January, but in June it never sets. It is simple evidence that Earth is a globe.
Re space tourist travel (topic - see post #1) no tourist has won my Challenge. Reason is that it is not possible to win my Challenge.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 09:25:42 PM by Heiwa »

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rabinoz

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11818 on: February 20, 2020, 04:12:00 AM »
Both Heiwa and flat-Earthers would be too scared of having their beliefs shattered - their whole "Worldview" destroyed.
Hm, I am not a flat-Earther.
I didn't say that you were! No wonder you cannot understand human space-travel - you can't even read.

I tried to read a bit of your "debunking" of atmospheric re-entry and it's so full of incorrect trash that it's obvious that you don't know what your are talking about.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11819 on: February 20, 2020, 09:27:02 PM »
Both Heiwa and flat-Earthers would be too scared of having their beliefs shattered - their whole "Worldview" destroyed.
Hm, I am not a flat-Earther.
I didn't say that you were! No wonder you cannot understand human space-travel - you can't even read.

I tried to read a bit of your "debunking" of atmospheric re-entry and it's so full of incorrect trash that it's obvious that you don't know what your are talking about.
Well, just copy/paste what you consider trash and I will have a look.