I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge

Quote from: Heiwa on February 17, 2020, 08:50:15 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on February 17, 2020, 02:44:12 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on February 17, 2020, 01:39:47 AM

Quote from: markjo on January 15, 2020, 07:12:54 AM

Of course space travel is possible.  Convincing you that manned space travel is possible is what's not possible.

Human space travel is not possible.

Incorrect!
It's funny that you keep saying thing but are never able to provide any supporting evidence.

Quote from: Heiwa

Only one way robotic space travel is possible into one orbit around Earth.

Incorrect!
What about the 402 satellites in geosynchronous orbit (TV, weather, communications etc)?
What about the  83 GNSS satellites is use?
It's funny that you keep saying thing but are never able to provide any supporting evidence.

They are all in Earth orbits. Some put there by Arianespace AG, a company I like.

You said  "Only one way robotic space travel is possible into one orbit around Earth.
They are not in  one orbit around Earth! They are in thousands of separate orbits. Satellites around Earth

You are right. All orbits are around Earth. And that is all that can be achieved when launching spacecrafts into the Universe.

Quote from: markjo on February 17, 2020, 07:02:08 PM

Quote from: Shifter on February 14, 2020, 04:08:52 AM

LOL Elon Musk cant even fulfill the orders of the Tesla cars to meet demand

Quote from: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/03/tesla-tsla-4q-2019-production-and-delivery-numbers.html

Tesla delivered a record 112,000 vehicles globally during the fourth quarter, significantly topping Wall Street estimates and achieving CEO Elon Musk’s year-end sales goal.

Wall Street expected Tesla to deliver 106,000 vehicles to customers during the fourth quarter, which would have just met the company’s annual delivery goal of between 360,000 and 400,000 vehicles, a 45% to 65% increase from 2018.

Tesla said it delivered approximately 367,500 vehicles last year, an impressive 50% jump from 2018.

Quote from: Shifter on February 14, 2020, 04:08:52 AM

Then there is the fact that the company is probably going to fail soon. The losses are not sustainable

Tell that to Amazon.  It took them about 7 years to finally make a profit.

Quote from: Shifter on February 14, 2020, 04:08:52 AM

Elon is all talk and very little walk. If he says Space-X is doing great and is pumping out all sorts of cool ideas, you can bet it's doing shit and that 'ideas' is where they will forever stay at

Proving that orbital class boosters can be built and reused reliably at a fraction of the cost of the rest of the industry ain't nothing to scoff at. 

Then there's the fact that SpaceX currently runs the largest constellation of satellites in orbit with (as of this morning) 297 operational StarLink satellites with thousands more in the works.  Limited satellite internet service should start later this year with more coverage available as the constellation grows.

I'd say that Elon knows how to walk.

All nonsense

There is far more demand for electric cars then Tesla can fulfil. Downgrading expectations is simply fudging the numbers to make you look like your performing well and on time.

Want a 'Tesla' car? Expect to be put on a waiting list years long. You cant simply rock up and order a new one to arrive next week

So when is Space X taking passengers to space? Richard Branson was also going to do something with his Virgin business. Yet, nothing, nada, zip, zilch, zero

And from what I heard, the passengers would only get to within a pubic hairs distance past what is deemed outer space. The alleged asstronuts floating in that tin can is still a few hundred kilomteres above where these flights would take anyone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Galactic

Quote

Virgin Galactic's founder, Richard Branson, had initially suggested that he hoped to see a maiden flight by the end of 2009,

And still has not reached space.

Like Mars One, it's all a hoax. I'm sure he's made plenty of money from twerps on the stock exchange though. Fools and their money are easily parted

I am the happy owner of an 1999 Opel Agila that has done 130 000 kms since new without serious trouble. Consumption is 0.6 l/10 kms.
I could buy a European or Japan made electric car (or a Ferrari) today but they are very expensive in spite of state subsidies of the order €5-10 000:- per electric car. So I keep my Agila.
Going on a space trip inside a tin can? Not for me. There is nothing to see and do in space. Better to stay at a sunny place on Earth with good food and wine and good company. And avoid cheap cruises at sea.

You said  "Only one way robotic space travel is possible into one orbit around Earth.
They are not in  one orbit around Earth! They are in thousands of separate orbits. Satellites around Earth

You are right. All orbits are around Earth.
[/quote]
No! YOU said into one orbit around Earth.
And they are not in one orbit around Earth! They are in thousands of separate orbits.   Satellites around Earth

And that is all that can be achieved when launching spacecrafts into the Universe.

Rubbish! Forget "the Universe" and stich to the Solar System.
From either LEO or GEO it's and easy matter to get to most parts of the Solar System and I cannot understand how can simply deny it.

Much of the "effort" of getting to most places in the Solar system is simply getting to LEO.

If you understand Delta-V budgets, though I guess you don't, this should make it clear:

Delta-V budget for Solar System

There is far more demand for electric cars then Tesla can fulfil.

There is far more demand for pickup trucks than GM can fulfill.  OMG, GM is doomed!!

Downgrading expectations is simply fudging the numbers to make you look like your performing well and on time.

Actually, the article said that Tesla exceeded expectations.

Want a 'Tesla' car? Expect to be put on a waiting list years long. You cant simply rock up and order a new one to arrive next week

From what I can tell, depending on the model and options you want, the wait can be as long as 6-10 weeks, but standard configurations should be 2-4 weeks.

So when is Space X taking passengers to space?

They're targeting May 7 for their Demo 2 flight taking 2 astronauts to the ISS, but the actual flight might be sooner or later depending on how long NASA decides that the two astronauts will stay. 

Richard Branson was also going to do something with his Virgin business. Yet, nothing, nada, zip, zilch, zero

Actually, VG is finishing the cabin upgrades to SS2 and is moving stuff to their space port for further testing.  They're hoping to have at lest one commercial flight by the end of this year.

And from what I heard, the passengers would only get to within a pubic hairs distance past what is deemed outer space. The alleged asstronuts floating in that tin can is still a few hundred kilomteres above where these flights would take anyone.

There is still debate as to where "space", but 50 miles is recognized by the US.

There is still debate as to where "space", but 50 miles is recognized by the US.

To win my Challenge you have to get to the Moon and/or planet Mars.
If you do it, I'll pay you €1M (topic).

Quote from: markjo on February 18, 2020, 07:13:58 AM

There is still debate as to where "space", but 50 miles is recognized by the US.

To win my Challenge you have to get to the Moon and/or planet Mars.
If you do it, I'll pay you €1M (topic).

Getting to the moon or mars will cost many billions more than winning your "challenge" would pay.

Quote from: Heiwa on February 18, 2020, 08:25:26 AM

Quote from: markjo on February 18, 2020, 07:13:58 AM

There is still debate as to where "space", but 50 miles is recognized by the US.

To win my Challenge you have to get to the Moon and/or planet Mars.
If you do it, I'll pay you €1M (topic).

Getting to the moon or mars will cost many billions more than winning your "challenge" would pay.

You are right.
So it is not possible!

Quote from: markjo on February 18, 2020, 09:39:07 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on February 18, 2020, 08:25:26 AM

Quote from: markjo on February 18, 2020, 07:13:58 AM

There is still debate as to where "space", but 50 miles is recognized by the US.

To win my Challenge you have to get to the Moon and/or planet Mars.
If you do it, I'll pay you €1M (topic).

Getting to the moon or mars will cost many billions more than winning your "challenge" would pay.

You are right.
So it is not possible!

Fortunately we already spent the money:

In 1973, NASA submitted congressional testimony reporting the total cost of Project Apollo as $25.4 billion (about $153 billion in 2018 dollars).

So we don't need your paltry non-existent €1M.

Didnt spacex spit out a 50M reward?

Quote from: markjo on February 18, 2020, 09:39:07 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on February 18, 2020, 08:25:26 AM

Quote from: markjo on February 18, 2020, 07:13:58 AM

There is still debate as to where "space", but 50 miles is recognized by the US.

To win my Challenge you have to get to the Moon and/or planet Mars.
If you do it, I'll pay you €1M (topic).

Getting to the moon or mars will cost many billions more than winning your "challenge" would pay.

You are right.
So it is not possible!

Not a piddling €1M.  But you would be amazed what you can do when you have a virtually unlimited budget.

Didnt spacex spit out a 50M reward?

Not sure about that, but NASA coughed up $40m+ back in October for R&D:

"NASA awards $43.2M to Blue Origin, SpaceX and others for tech to take us to the Moon and Mars"
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/01/nasa-awards-43-2m-to-blue-origin-spacex-and-others-for-tech-to-take-us-to-the-moon-and-mars/

As well the group that built what is now the Virgin Galactic rig won the $10m X Prize some years back.

There's plenty of funding out there for legitimate endeavors in stark contrast to this 'challenge'.

Quote from: Themightykabool on February 18, 2020, 01:10:25 PM

Didnt spacex spit out a 50M reward?

Not sure about that, but NASA coughed up $40m+ back in October for R&D:

"NASA awards $43.2M to Blue Origin, SpaceX and others for tech to take us to the Moon and Mars"
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/01/nasa-awards-43-2m-to-blue-origin-spacex-and-others-for-tech-to-take-us-to-the-moon-and-mars/

As well the group that built what is now the Virgin Galactic rig won the $10m X Prize some years back.

There's plenty of funding out there for legitimate endeavors in stark contrast to this 'challenge'.

Did you see:

SpaceX signs deal to fly 4 space tourists around Earth in about two years

KEY POINTS

• SpaceX plans to fly four privately-paying space tourists to orbit in its Crew Dragon capsule.
  
  
• The customers will be brokered through Space Adventures, which has flown private citizens to the International Space Station using Russian spacecraft.
  
  
• Space Adventures said the mission would last five days and is expected to launch between “late-2021 to mid-2022” from Florida’s Cape Canaveral spaceport.

<<etc>>

Quote from: Heiwa on February 18, 2020, 11:05:36 AM

Quote from: markjo on February 18, 2020, 09:39:07 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on February 18, 2020, 08:25:26 AM

Quote from: markjo on February 18, 2020, 07:13:58 AM

There is still debate as to where "space", but 50 miles is recognized by the US.

To win my Challenge you have to get to the Moon and/or planet Mars.
If you do it, I'll pay you €1M (topic).

Getting to the moon or mars will cost many billions more than winning your "challenge" would pay.

You are right.
So it is not possible!

Fortunately we already spent the money:

In 1973, NASA submitted congressional testimony reporting the total cost of Project Apollo as $25.4 billion (about $153 billion in 2018 dollars).

So we don't need your paltry non-existent €1M.

I don't know who you are and my €1M is only to encourage scientists to do some fuel calculations how to fly around in space.
It is best to do the calculations on land before flying off.

I don't know who you are and my €1M is only to encourage scientists to do some fuel calculations how to fly around in space.
It is best to do the calculations on land before flying off.

We already did those calculations.  I showed you the results and you just dismissed them.  How discouraging! 

I don't know who you are and my €1M is only to encourage scientists to do some fuel calculations how to fly around in space.
It is best to do the calculations on land before flying off.

Yes, that's why rockets are designed to carry the amount of propellant that the engineers calculated would be needed for their missions (usually around 85% of the total mass of the rocket).

Quote from: Heiwa on February 19, 2020, 05:46:53 AM

I don't know who you are and my €1M is only to encourage scientists to do some fueel calculations how to fly around in space.
It is best to do the calculations on land before flying off.

Yes, that's why rockets are designed to carry the amount of propellant that the engineers calculated would be needed for their missions (usually around 85% of the total mass of the rocket).

No, rockets are only designed to catapult their spacecrafts into Earth orbits. After that it gets very difficult (topic).
That's why nobody wins my Challenge.
Once in orbit there is no way to go anywhere else, land on moons, asteroids or planets and then return home.

Once in orbit there is no way to go anywhere else, land on moons, asteroids or planets and then return home.

Remind me again why you believe that.  Is it because you think that it's impossible to not be in earth's orbit, and that the only way to return to earth is a straight down?

Quote from: Heiwa on February 19, 2020, 05:46:53 AM

I don't know who you are and my €1M is only to encourage scientists to do some fuel calculations how to fly around in space.
It is best to do the calculations on land before flying off.

We already did those calculations.  I showed you the results and you just dismissed them.  How discouraging! 

No, you never arrived anywhere!

Quote from: Heiwa on February 19, 2020, 07:11:34 AM

Once in orbit there is no way to go anywhere else, land on moons, asteroids or planets and then return home.

Remind me again why you believe that.  Is it because you think that it's impossible to not be in earth's orbit, and that the only way to return to earth is a straight down?

Easy. Once in Earth orbit, always in Earth orbit. No way to return back down on Earth.
Just ask Yuri Gagarin. I describe his fairy tale at my website.

I thought you said that objects in space had to come down to earth at 90 degree angle from the ground.  I am quite sure you said that.

But I'm not going to verify.  Honestly, I like this new fantasy better.  What goes up, must stay up.  Has a poetic ring to it.

Quote from: markjo on February 19, 2020, 06:44:57 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on February 19, 2020, 05:46:53 AM

I don't know who you are and my €1M is only to encourage scientists to do some fueel calculations how to fly around in space.
It is best to do the calculations on land before flying off.

Yes, that's why rockets are designed to carry the amount of propellant that the engineers calculated would be needed for their missions (usually around 85% of the total mass of the rocket).

No, rockets are only designed to catapult their spacecrafts into Earth orbits.

That's why the spacecraft carry their own fuel supply.  So they can get themselves into their proper orbits.

After that it gets very difficult (topic).

Not nearly as difficult as convincing you that you're wrong about manned spaceflight.

That's why nobody wins my Challenge.

No, that isn't why.

Once in orbit there is no way to go anywhere else, land on moons, asteroids or planets and then return home.

Yes, there is.  You just refuse to believe it.

5yo challenge
Adjust for inflation and market std

Easy. Once in Earth orbit, always in Earth orbit. No way to return back down on Earth.
Just ask Yuri Gagarin. I describe his fairy tale at my website.

No, you describe your fairy tale at your useless website.
All I've found there are more fairy tales that say no more than that YOU are unable to understand anything about these topics.

If you disagree, please explain here, with the relevant physics etc, why
"Once in Earth orbit, always in Earth orbit" and why there is "No way to return back down on Earth".

If you can't logically explain it here we'll know you've beem talking hogwash all along!

I wonder if the old man will live long enough to see daily manned flights to space?

I think we are only 2 -5 years away from monthly tourist flights to space. Then we will have thousands of non-governmental people that need to be "in the conspiracy" added every year.
 

I wonder if the old man will live long enough to see daily manned flights to space?

I think we are only 2 -5 years away from monthly tourist flights to space. Then we will have thousands of non-governmental people that need to be "in the conspiracy" added every year.

I think tourist flights to space are impossible. No way to get back down on Earth. And what shall a tourist do in space? There is nothing there.

 And what shall a tourist do in space?

Use the toilet?

Quote from: MaNaeSWolf on February 19, 2020, 10:49:52 PM

I wonder if the old man will live long enough to see daily manned flights to space?

I think we are only 2 -5 years away from monthly tourist flights to space. Then we will have thousands of non-governmental people that need to be "in the conspiracy" added every year.

I think tourist flights to space are impossible. No way to get back down on Earth. And what shall a tourist do in space? There is nothing there.

But the view would be "Out of this World !"

I wonder if the old man will live long enough to see daily manned flights to space?

I think we are only 2 -5 years away from monthly tourist flights to space. Then we will have thousands of non-governmental people that need to be "in the conspiracy" added every year.

Not monthly but:

SpaceX signs deal to fly 4 space tourists around Earth in about two years

KEY POINTS

• SpaceX plans to fly four privately-paying space tourists to orbit in its Crew Dragon capsule.
  
  
• The customers will be brokered through Space Adventures, which has flown private citizens to the International Space Station using Russian spacecraft.
  
  
• Space Adventures said the mission would last five days and is expected to launch between “late-2021 to mid-2022” from Florida’s Cape Canaveral spaceport.

<<etc>>

I'm probably older than Heiwa but I hope to see the day when humans in space deniers can crowdfund a few representatives to "prove that Globe" En varke vlieg miskien! !
Nie 'n sneeuvlokkie se kans in Hades nie! of any daring to do that!
Flat-Earthers won't even crowdfund a visit to the South Pole nor even a circumnavigation of Antarctica to prove their belief.

Both Heiwa and flat-Earthers would be too scared of having their beliefs shattered - their whole "Worldview" destroyed.

Quote from: MaNaeSWolf on February 19, 2020, 10:49:52 PM

I wonder if the old man will live long enough to see daily manned flights to space?

I think we are only 2 -5 years away from monthly tourist flights to space. Then we will have thousands of non-governmental people that need to be "in the conspiracy" added every year.

Not monthly but:

Quote

SpaceX signs deal to fly 4 space tourists around Earth in about two years

KEY POINTS

• SpaceX plans to fly four privately-paying space tourists to orbit in its Crew Dragon capsule.
  
  
• The customers will be brokered through Space Adventures, which has flown private citizens to the International Space Station using Russian spacecraft.
  
  
• Space Adventures said the mission would last five days and is expected to launch between “late-2021 to mid-2022” from Florida’s Cape Canaveral spaceport.

<<etc>>

I'm probably older than Heiwa but I hope to see the day when humans in space deniers can crowdfund a few representatives to "prove that Globe" En varke vlieg miskien! !
Nie 'n sneeuvlokkie se kans in Hades nie! of any daring to do that!
Flat-Earthers won't even crowdfund a visit to the South Pole nor even a circumnavigation of Antarctica to prove their belief.

Both Heiwa and flat-Earthers would be too scared of having their beliefs shattered - their whole "Worldview" destroyed.

Tourists on Dragon will probably happen fairly soon (year or 2) but Im afraid the seat price will still be very high. $10-20million.
The real fun starts with starship, when you have a 100% reusable rocket architecture, and only need to consider the cost of fuel and investment cost for every launch.
I seem to be half the age of either of you, so good chance i will get to see a lot going forward.

Hopefully

-People on Mars.
-People on Moon (I have not lived to see that yet)
-People in deep space habitats. (maybe?)
-Asteroid mining
-Industry in space

The last one is what I really want to see. If we can justify the financial cost of getting above earth orbit, then our future is set. As long as we are a one planet species, we have little chance of long term survival.

Quote from: MaNaeSWolf on February 19, 2020, 10:49:52 PM

I wonder if the old man will live long enough to see daily manned flights to space?

I think we are only 2 -5 years away from monthly tourist flights to space. Then we will have thousands of non-governmental people that need to be "in the conspiracy" added every year.

Not monthly but:

Quote

SpaceX signs deal to fly 4 space tourists around Earth in about two years

KEY POINTS

• SpaceX plans to fly four privately-paying space tourists to orbit in its Crew Dragon capsule.
  
  
• The customers will be brokered through Space Adventures, which has flown private citizens to the International Space Station using Russian spacecraft.
  
  
• Space Adventures said the mission would last five days and is expected to launch between “late-2021 to mid-2022” from Florida’s Cape Canaveral spaceport.

<<etc>>

I'm probably older than Heiwa but I hope to see the day when humans in space deniers can crowdfund a few representatives to "prove that Globe" En varke vlieg miskien! !
Nie 'n sneeuvlokkie se kans in Hades nie! of any daring to do that!
Flat-Earthers won't even crowdfund a visit to the South Pole nor even a circumnavigation of Antarctica to prove their belief.

Both Heiwa and flat-Earthers would be too scared of having their beliefs shattered - their whole "Worldview" destroyed.

Hm, I am not a flat-Earther. I live in southern France since 42 years with a great view of the Mediterranean/Ligurian sea, where the Sun rises above the horizon every day outside my kitchen window. In January the Sun rises at about 8 o'clock straight out but in June the Sun rises at about 5 o'clock much to the left where Italy is. In north Norway the Sun doesn't rise anywhere in January, but in June it never sets. It is simple evidence that Earth is a globe.
Re space tourist travel (topic - see post #1) no tourist has won my Challenge. Reason is that it is not possible to win my Challenge.