I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge

Quote from: Heiwa on November 10, 2019, 01:44:52 AM

Quote from: markjo on November 09, 2019, 11:16:04 AM

Including NASA.

? I have of course asked NASA a lot of questions but they never reply. I wonder what they do all day long? Drink like dr. Buzz navigating in space with a sextant?
Fact is that NASA failed my Challenge. It cannot explain the fuel required by a spacecraft with humans to land on the Moon for a piss and then to take off again and land on Earth ... in front of Potus 'Tricky Dick' Nixon. It was a great show though and they drink a lot at Hollywood. Dr. Buzz was never on the Moon. He was drunk in a Hollywood studio.

I don't believe any more of that than I believe of all the other rubbish you've written.

You don't know the first thing about:

• Transfer orbits.
• Insertion burns.
• Atmospheric re-entry.
• Gravity assist.
• Orbital mechanics in general!

Go  back to scrubbing toilets on garbage scows. Going by your obsession ovef such matterd, you're probably well qualified for that.

Hm, to win my Challenge - topic - you must transfer orbits, do insertion burns, do re-entries from space into atmosphere, etc, etc. But it is all impossible nonsense.
Beacuse, my Challenge is open only for more idiots like you. Only complete lunatics do not understand that my Challengers are are just funny jokes.

Just to be clear, when you say "explain the fuel required", are you asking for someone to step you through every calculation of each burn?

Just to be clear, when you say "explain the fuel required", are you asking for someone to step you through every calculation of each burn?

Yes, travel to the Moon in 3D space requires that each burn/fuel consumption to change direction is done at the right location, time and direction. If not, you go off in the wrong direction ... and will arrive nowhere. Everything must be planned beforehand. NASA thinks that drunk asstronuts aboard can do it ... but not me. So, therefore my Challenge!

Fact is that NASA failed my Challenge. It cannot explain the fuel required by a spacecraft with humans to land on the Moon for a piss and then to take off again and land on Earth ... in front of Potus 'Tricky Dick' Nixon.

NASA explained everything just fine.  You not believing the explanations is your problem, not NASA's.

Quote from: Heiwa on November 10, 2019, 01:44:52 AM

Fact is that NASA failed my Challenge. It cannot explain the fuel required by a spacecraft with humans to land on the Moon for a piss and then to take off again and land on Earth ... in front of Potus 'Tricky Dick' Nixon.

NASA explained everything just fine.  You not believing the explanations is your problem, not NASA's.

I have no problems. People trying to win my Challenge (topic) have. And let's face it. It is not possible to fly to the Moon or anywhere in space. You are going too fast ... if you try ... and can never stop again.
Example: Dr. Buzz on Apollo 11 was dropping down on Earth from the Moon 50 years ago. When entering the atmosphere his speed was >11 000 m/s and Buzz stepped on the brake and released a parachute and ... landed 10 minutes later in front of Potus Nixon! Imagine that.
If Buzz had stepped on the brake 1 second too late or early, he would have missed Nixon by 11 kms. Buzz was the fastest man in space ever ... and NASA pays him free drinks since then. Imagine - 50 years of free drinks.

If you think that Buzz was flying the Apollo spacecraft, then that proves that you do have a problem.

If you think that Buzz was flying the Apollo spacecraft, then that proves that you do have a problem.

OK, Buzz was just a passenger - the computers did it. But as I recall, Buzz had his sextant to help him navigate. Buzz is a MIT 1963 PhD you know. Today it costs US$ 1M to buy such title.

Quote from: markjo on November 10, 2019, 09:54:51 AM

If you think that Buzz was flying the Apollo spacecraft, then that proves that you do have a problem.

OK, Buzz was just a passenger - the computers did it. But as I recall, Buzz had his sextant to help him navigate.

Actually, the sextant was built into the Apollo command module.

Quote from: markjo on November 10, 2019, 09:54:51 AM

If you think that Buzz was flying the Apollo spacecraft, then that proves that you do have a problem.

OK, Buzz was just a passenger - the computers did it.

Are you sure? Have you read the transcript and the report on Apollo 11 detailing all the actions of the crew?

Here's an abbreviated version A11 MissionReport: NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION APOLLO 11 MISSON REPORT.
It's only 348 pages long plus a bit about "APOLLO SPACECRAFT FLIGHT HISTORY".

You might find that the computer did not do it all by any means!

But as I recall, Buzz had his sextant to help him navigate. Buzz is a MIT 1963 PhD you know.

It's not a matter of "Buzz having his sextant to help him navigate" but the Command Module had a sextant installed, one like this:

Astronomy: The story of the Apollo sextant

Jim Lovell mans the Command Module's Guidance and Navigation station during Apollo 8.

Yes and Buzz Aldrin's PhD thesis was Line-of-sight guidance techniques for manned orbital rendezvous by Aldrin, Buzz.
Try reading some of it but don't tax your brain too much because I doubt you'll understand any of it! But here's the abstract:

ABSTRACT

A study is made of the inertial rotation of the line-of-sight throughout three-dimensional Keplerian rendezvous trajectories. A simple, yet very meaningful method of classifying rendezvous trajectories through the use of "Rendezvous Parameters" is presented.
Simple approximate expressions are derived in terms of these parameters which greatly facilitate the analysis of rendezvous guidance.
The noncoplanar aspects of rendezvous are analyzed by a method, valid for low relative inclinations, which, based on two brief target position observations, permits the simple calculation of the out-of-plane velocity change required to shift the relative line of nodes to a predetermined point.
These principles are then applied to a specific rendezvous mission situation, namely the NASA Gemini rendezvous mission. A rendezvous guidance technique, designed to extend man's control capabilities, is derived, whereby, through a sighting reticle programmed to vary inertially for a selected exact nominal Keplerian trajectory,
the astronaut can initiate, monitor and correct his intercept to maintain a collision course up to the braking or velocity matching maneuver.

That looks like it might have been useful on the Apollo 11 mission - maybe that's why Buzz Aldrin was selected. See he wasn't just a "pretty face " after all !

That looks like it might have been useful on the Apollo 11 mission - maybe that's why Buzz Aldrin was selected. See he wasn't just a "pretty face " after all !

Actually, Buzz's rendezvous would also have come in handy during the Gemini program where rendezvous was just one of the things that they needed to learn before attempting a moon landing.  Also as an experienced scuba diver, Buzz was the one who realized that neutral buoyancy would be a good way to train for zero-g EVAs.

Quote from: Heiwa on November 10, 2019, 11:41:56 AM

Quote from: markjo on November 10, 2019, 09:54:51 AM

If you think that Buzz was flying the Apollo spacecraft, then that proves that you do have a problem.

OK, Buzz was just a passenger - the computers did it.

Are you sure? Have you read the transcript and the report on Apollo 11 detailing all the actions of the crew?

Here's an abbreviated version A11 MissionReport: NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION APOLLO 11 MISSON REPORT.
It's only 348 pages long plus a bit about "APOLLO SPACECRAFT FLIGHT HISTORY".

You might find that the computer did not do it all by any means!

Quote from: Heiwa

But as I recall, Buzz had his sextant to help him navigate. Buzz is a MIT 1963 PhD you know.

It's not a matter of "Buzz having his sextant to help him navigate" but the Command Module had a sextant installed, one like this:

Quote

Astronomy: The story of the Apollo sextant

Jim Lovell mans the Command Module's Guidance and Navigation station during Apollo 8.

Yes and Buzz Aldrin's PhD thesis was Line-of-sight guidance techniques for manned orbital rendezvous by Aldrin, Buzz.
Try reading some of it but don't tax your brain too much because I doubt you'll understand any of it! But here's the abstract:

Quote from: Edwin Eugene Aldrin, Jr. Major, USAF

ABSTRACT

A study is made of the inertial rotation of the line-of-sight throughout three-dimensional Keplerian rendezvous trajectories. A simple, yet very meaningful method of classifying rendezvous trajectories through the use of "Rendezvous Parameters" is presented.
Simple approximate expressions are derived in terms of these parameters which greatly facilitate the analysis of rendezvous guidance.
The noncoplanar aspects of rendezvous are analyzed by a method, valid for low relative inclinations, which, based on two brief target position observations, permits the simple calculation of the out-of-plane velocity change required to shift the relative line of nodes to a predetermined point.
These principles are then applied to a specific rendezvous mission situation, namely the NASA Gemini rendezvous mission. A rendezvous guidance technique, designed to extend man's control capabilities, is derived, whereby, through a sighting reticle programmed to vary inertially for a selected exact nominal Keplerian trajectory,
the astronaut can initiate, monitor and correct his intercept to maintain a collision course up to the braking or velocity matching maneuver.

That looks like it might have been useful on the Apollo 11 mission - maybe that's why Buzz Aldrin was selected. See he wasn't just a "pretty face " after all !

Well, question remains how PhD Buzz, at >11 000 m/s speed, hit the top of the atmosphere at 110 000 m altitude when dropping down on Earth from the Moon 50 years ago. If the speed was vertical, Buzz would have hit Earth after 10 seconds! A quick landing!
So Buzz arrived almost horizontally/tangentially and then descended through the atmosphere only slowed down due to air friction. The braking maybe took 1000 seconds and with average speed 5500 m/s Buzz flow 5 500  000 m or 5500 kilometers! It is quite long BUT Buzz stopped just in front of Potus Nixon on a warship to welcome Buzz back on Earth. Hole in ONE! Imagine that.
Of course it never happened. It was just a stupid Hollywood show! But Americans believe it happened. The Americans also believed that they were winning the war in Vietnam at the same time, even if the human KIAs were great >100/day and so on. Those were the times.

Well, question remains how PhD Buzz, at >11 000 m/s speed, hit the top of the atmosphere at 110 000 m altitude when dropping down on Earth from the Moon 50 years ago. If the speed was vertical, Buzz would have hit Earth after 10 seconds! A quick landing!
So Buzz arrived almost horizontally/tangentially and then descended through the atmosphere only slowed down due to air friction. The braking maybe took 1000 seconds and with average speed 5500 m/s Buzz flow 5 500  000 m or 5500 kilometers! It is quite long BUT Buzz stopped just in front of Potus Nixon on a warship to welcome Buzz back on Earth. Hole in ONE! Imagine that.

For a start, the CSM had attitude control all during the reentry and that is one big difference between US and Russian re-entry systems.
Why should I bother to explain it to you when these reams and reams of documentation on the control systems in the Apollo craft?

Here's one paper on the control systems:

Apollo Spacecraft Control Systems
Abstract
The overall Apollo spacecraft configuration includes two separate manned spacecraft. They are the command module designed for earth launch and reentry and cislunar flight including lunar orbit, and the lunar excursion module designed for the excursion from lunar orbit to the moon’s surface and return. Each spacecraft has its own independent guidance and control system. This paper decribes the Apollo spacecraft control systems including engine control and rocket engine configurations for attitude control. The Apollo guidance systems are not discussed.

Ad these hundreds of documents on the early design phase etc of the Apollo craft at CSM Guidance Development Diary.

Of course it never happened. It was just a stupid Hollywood show! But Americans believe it happened..

You just glance at something and if it looks too hard you claim it's impossible!
Wake up to yourself and put a bit of effort into learning these things were done.
They were not done, nor understood, by one person but by many hundreds working together.

Quote from: Heiwa on November 10, 2019, 11:43:16 PM

Well, question remains how PhD Buzz, at >11 000 m/s speed, hit the top of the atmosphere at 110 000 m altitude when dropping down on Earth from the Moon 50 years ago. If the speed was vertical, Buzz would have hit Earth after 10 seconds! A quick landing!
So Buzz arrived almost horizontally/tangentially and then descended through the atmosphere only slowed down due to air friction. The braking maybe took 1000 seconds and with average speed 5500 m/s Buzz flow 5 500  000 m or 5500 kilometers! It is quite long BUT Buzz stopped just in front of Potus Nixon on a warship to welcome Buzz back on Earth. Hole in ONE! Imagine that.

For a start, the CSM had attitude control all during the reentry and that is one big difference between US and Russian re-entry systems.
Why should I bother to explain it to you when these reams and reams of documentation on the control systems in the Apollo craft?

Here's one paper on the control systems:

Quote from: Robert G.Chilton (Deputy Chief)

Apollo Spacecraft Control Systems
Abstract
The overall Apollo spacecraft configuration includes two separate manned spacecraft. They are the command module designed for earth launch and reentry and cislunar flight including lunar orbit, and the lunar excursion module designed for the excursion from lunar orbit to the moon’s surface and return. Each spacecraft has its own independent guidance and control system. This paper decribes the Apollo spacecraft control systems including engine control and rocket engine configurations for attitude control. The Apollo guidance systems are not discussed.

Ad these hundreds of documents on the early design phase etc of the Apollo craft at CSM Guidance Development Diary.

Quote from: Heiwa

Of course it never happened. It was just a stupid Hollywood show! But Americans believe it happened..

You just glance at something and if it looks too hard you claim it's impossible!
Wake up to yourself and put a bit of effort into learning these things were done.
They were not done, nor understood, by one person but by many hundreds working together.

Hm, question remains how PhD Buzz, at >11 000 m/s speed, hit the top of the atmosphere at 110 000 m altitude when dropping down on Earth from the Moon 50 years ago. If the speed was vertical, Buzz would have hit Earth after 10 seconds! A quick landing!
So Buzz arrived almost horizontally/tangentially and then descended through the atmosphere only slowed down due to air friction. The braking maybe took 1000 seconds and with average speed 5500 m/s Buzz flow 5 500  000 m or 5500 kilometers! It is quite long BUT Buzz stopped just in front of Potus Nixon on a warship to welcome Buzz back on Earth. Hole in ONE! Imagine that.

However, where did Buzz start his landing at top of the atmosphere in the sky? How did he find the correct location to dip into the thin air.
NASA has never managed to answer that question.

You know mission control plans out all these maneuvers ahead of time, right?  All prepared and calculated, within a reasonable degree of error.  And they landed miles away from the recovery ship, which was headed towards their trajectory.  An excellent feat of control, for sure, but not a miraculous one.

However, where did Buzz start his landing at top of the atmosphere in the sky? How did he find the correct location to dip into the thin air.

Buzz didn't.  Michael Collins was the command module pilot and the guidance computer did most of the hard work.

NASA has never managed to answer that question.

Yes, they did but you keep ignoring the answer.

Quote from: Heiwa on November 11, 2019, 05:11:43 AM

However, where did Buzz start his landing at top of the atmosphere in the sky? How did he find the correct location to dip into the thin air.

Buzz didn't.  Michael Collins was the command module pilot and the guidance computer did most of the hard work.

Quote from: Heiwa on November 11, 2019, 05:11:43 AM

NASA has never managed to answer that question.

Yes, they did but you keep ignoring the answer.

Hm, question remains how PhD Buzz & Co., at >11 000 m/s speed, hit the top of the atmosphere at 110 000 m altitude when dropping down on Earth from the Moon 50 years ago. If the speed was vertical, Buzz & Co. would have hit Earth after 10 seconds! A quick landing!
There is no way to drop down from the Moon and land on Earth!

Here you go, bro:   https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap11fj/pdf/19740072963_as11-entry-analysis-19700220.pdf

Here you go, bro:   https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap11fj/pdf/19740072963_as11-entry-analysis-19700220.pdf

Nice work of fiction you got there

Hm, question remains how PhD Buzz & Co., at >11 000 m/s speed, hit the top of the atmosphere at 110 000 m altitude when dropping down on Earth from the Moon 50 years ago.

Why do you keep asking questions when you know that you'll never believe the answers?

Quote from: Heiwa on November 11, 2019, 11:15:00 AM

Hm, question remains how PhD Buzz & Co., at >11 000 m/s speed, hit the top of the atmosphere at 110 000 m altitude when dropping down on Earth from the Moon 50 years ago.

Why do you keep asking questions when you know that you'll never believe the answers?

Hm, I don't ask questions! My Challenge (topic) is to calculate fuel used for a trip to the Moon incl. the famous 600 seconds landing on Earth in front of Potus Nixon. And there are many unclear aspects about the whole show.
Maybe I should start a new Challenge? Is the Moon flat? It looks like it in the sky! So how much fuel is required to fly from at flat Earth to a flat Moon?

So how much fuel is required to fly from at flat Earth to a flat Moon?

Apollo by the Numbers will give you that data.  It will not, however, teach you the rocket science necessary to derive the calculations yourself.

Nice work of fiction you got there

How did you develop such a keen sense of humor? NASA has never managed to answer that question.

Hm, question remains how PhD Buzz, at >11 000 m/s speed, hit the top of the atmosphere at 110 000 m altitude when dropping down on Earth from the Moon 50 years ago. If the speed was vertical, Buzz would have hit Earth after 10 seconds! A quick landing!

No, the question does not "remain". Only your failure to bother to learn about it.

So Buzz arrived almost horizontally/tangentially and then descended through the atmosphere only slowed down due to air friction. The braking maybe took 1000 seconds and with average speed 5500 m/s Buzz flow 5 500  000 m or 5500 kilometers! It is quite long BUT Buzz stopped just in front of Potus Nixon on a warship to welcome Buzz back on Earth. Hole in ONE! Imagine that.

Not all landings are that close but the capsule was flying aerodynamically during reentry and could control its flight be changing its attitude.
It had an inertial navigation system which was updated prior to re-entry.

However, where did Buzz start his landing at top of the atmosphere in the sky? How did he find the correct location to dip into the thin air.
NASA has never managed to answer that question.

Really?
So you have read ALL the thousands of pages of documentation and come to that conclusion - and pigs might fly!
You can't even understand manoeuvres to change from one orbit to another nor so-called gravitational boost manoeuvres - where a spacecraft steals a bit of kinetic energy from a planet.

Did you even read APOLLO 11 ENTRY POSTFLIGHT ANALYSIS and see this:

Quote from: markjo on November 11, 2019, 12:05:24 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on November 11, 2019, 11:15:00 AM

Hm, question remains how PhD Buzz & Co., at >11 000 m/s speed, hit the top of the atmosphere at 110 000 m altitude when dropping down on Earth from the Moon 50 years ago.

Why do you keep asking questions when you know that you'll never believe the answers?

Hm, I don't ask questions!

You just did in the post that I quoted.

My Challenge (topic) is to calculate fuel used for a trip to the Moon incl. the famous 600 seconds landing on Earth in front of Potus Nixon.

They didn't land in front of Nixon.  They landed in the ocean.  Nixon probably watched it on TV at home like everyone else.

And there are many unclear aspects about the whole show.

Which you will never understand, no matter how many times they're explained to you.

Quote from: Yes on November 11, 2019, 11:30:54 AM

Here you go, bro:   https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap11fj/pdf/19740072963_as11-entry-analysis-19700220.pdf

Nice work of fiction you got there

And where is your evidence for such a claim? Have YOU read all of it?

Quote from: Shifter on November 11, 2019, 11:31:32 AM

Quote from: Yes on November 11, 2019, 11:30:54 AM

Here you go, bro:   https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap11fj/pdf/19740072963_as11-entry-analysis-19700220.pdf

Nice work of fiction you got there

And where is your evidence for such a claim? Have YOU read all of it?

I know man has not gone to the Moon. Yet. So therefore I know that article is rubbish. Not saying it's complete rubbish. Some of the math would work. But it hasn't been done in practice. Yet.

I know man has not gone to the Moon. Yet. So therefore I know that article is rubbish. Not saying it's complete rubbish. Some of the math would work. But it hasn't been done in practice. Yet.

And you know all of this because...?

Quote from: Shifter on November 11, 2019, 01:24:59 PM

I know man has not gone to the Moon. Yet. So therefore I know that article is rubbish. Not saying it's complete rubbish. Some of the math would work. But it hasn't been done in practice. Yet.

And you know all of this because...?

History

Quote from: markjo on November 11, 2019, 03:01:05 PM

Quote from: Shifter on November 11, 2019, 01:24:59 PM

I know man has not gone to the Moon. Yet. So therefore I know that article is rubbish. Not saying it's complete rubbish. Some of the math would work. But it hasn't been done in practice. Yet.

And you know all of this because...?

History

History tells us that 12 men landed and walked on the moon.

Quote from: Shifter on November 11, 2019, 03:04:25 PM

Quote from: markjo on November 11, 2019, 03:01:05 PM

Quote from: Shifter on November 11, 2019, 01:24:59 PM

I know man has not gone to the Moon. Yet. So therefore I know that article is rubbish. Not saying it's complete rubbish. Some of the math would work. But it hasn't been done in practice. Yet.

And you know all of this because...?

History

History tells us that 12 men landed and walked on the moon.

I forget you guys can only look backwards from this date whereas I can look forwards to the correct and updated 'version'

I think he's talking about his hyperdimensional time-traveling sci-fi history.  He alludes to it from time to time.

Edit: looks like my typing was a minute too slow.