I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10950 on: October 18, 2019, 02:29:17 AM »
Heiwa has a point. If someone says they will do a fly by around the sun for a gravity assist, you know it's full of shit. As you know Earth is constantly moving sideways relative to the sun at about 30km/s. To get to the sun you have to cancel this sideways motion. It is much easier to get a space craft out of the solar system than it is to the sun because you only need to worry about the escape velocity of the Earth which is 11km/s. Just wait for the right time (when Earth is in a good position relative to your target in the solar system) and go. If the probe has to go around the sun first it must use orders of magnitude more fuel and energy to pull it off. Waste of time, money and resources.

If the earth is moving.
And we re on the earth to start.
Then we are also moving.

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10951 on: October 18, 2019, 02:36:44 AM »
Heiwa has a point. If someone says they will do a fly by around the sun for a gravity assist, you know it's full of shit. As you know Earth is constantly moving sideways relative to the sun at about 30km/s. To get to the sun you have to cancel this sideways motion. It is much easier to get a space craft out of the solar system than it is to the sun because you only need to worry about the escape velocity of the Earth which is 11km/s. Just wait for the right time (when Earth is in a good position relative to your target in the solar system) and go. If the probe has to go around the sun first it must use orders of magnitude more fuel and energy to pull it off. Waste of time, money and resources.

If the earth is moving.
And we re on the earth to start.
Then we are also moving.

No kidding. That's why going to the Sun is orders or magnitude more energy intensive then going elsewhere. You would be better off doing your gravity assist around Venus or Jupiter then the Sun. The only reason you would go to the Sun is if the Sun was your target

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10952 on: October 18, 2019, 02:51:59 AM »
Heiwa has a point. If someone says they will do a fly by around the sun for a gravity assist, you know it's full of shit. As you know Earth is constantly moving sideways relative to the sun at about 30km/s. To get to the sun you have to cancel this sideways motion. It is much easier to get a space craft out of the solar system than it is to the sun because you only need to worry about the escape velocity of the Earth which is 11km/s. Just wait for the right time (when Earth is in a good position relative to your target in the solar system) and go. If the probe has to go around the sun first it must use orders of magnitude more fuel and energy to pull it off. Waste of time, money and resources.



He does not have a point.
Thats because he has zero idea what he is talking about.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayabusa2[/size]
It is not going anywhere close to the sun.


It is using the earth for a gravity assist to get into a higher orbit to match the asteroids velocity and position.
You can use gravity assist to gain or lose orbital velocity depending on how you approach the gravity well.
Hayabusa needed the additional velocity to get the the Ryugu. It was launched with a much smaller rocket than curiosity rover, and needs about the same orbital apogee (actually greater).
It is not time constrained, so they can add more mass to get to a faster orbit with a smaller rocket, all thanks to earths gravity assist.


But you are correct. If you want to get to the sun you need to cancel out our sideways (orbital) velocity, which is why it is very hard to get to the sun or even Mercury. But not impossible. If you have the time, you can send a space craft nearly anywhere with enough gravity assists.
Or you know, anti matter :p
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

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frenat

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10953 on: October 18, 2019, 05:48:03 AM »
How much energy do you need if you only want to go to Orbit?

That depends on the mass of the vehicle you want to go into orbit. Lets say you have a Starship like the Enterprise weighing 4,500,000 metric tons. That's 4,500,000,000kg
Except that the Enterprise doesn't use matter/antimatter for the impulse engines (sub-light).  Those are powered by deuterium fusion reactors.  The warp engines are powered by matter/antimatter reaction.

Perhaps we shouldn't wait for prohibitively expensive matter/anti-matter and should start with fusion reactors instead.

I was only using the enterprises size/mass as an example. Getting out of earths orbit takes up most of the juice anyway. Once your in space, the fuel requirement is cheap!

At http://heiwaco.com/moontravelrex.htm#JAP I describe two fake space trips from Earth to 'assteroids' and back to Earth and the fuel used.
To save on fuel the space imagineers at NASA and JAXA uses gravity assist flybyes (LOL), i.e. after an orbit around the Sun our planet Earth kicks the space craft towards the target, i.e. a non-existing assteroid. My ass, what they imagine!

Translation: I don't understand any of it so I assume nobody else does either.
Hm, assteroid Ryugu orbits the Sun between planets Earth and Mars but to visit it the Japan spacecraft Hayabusa 2, starting from Earth March 2014, first made a trip (or two?) around the Sun, returned to Earth for a gravity assist flybye and then flow/was kicked to the target arriving there June 27, 2018. By same logic going to Mars you should first fly around the Sun, return to Earth for a gravity assist flybye to go to Mars, etc.
Anyway, the Hayabusa 2 spacecraft landed on assteroid Ryugu February 22 this year we were told - Fake News? - and is ready to start the return trip to Earth December 2019, so it can land on Earth a year later. Landing will not be in Japan but in a remote area in Australia, where nobody lives.
I agree - I don't understand how the Japanese fly in space. Why not go straight to the target, land there and then return the same way. I simply think the whole thing is a hoax. Only idiots fly around in space collecting 0.1 gram of top soil from an assteroid.
And you continue to prove you don't understand it. You COULD do an orbit around the Sun and gravity assist with Earth to go to Mars. You don't have to. It depends on how much energy you want to expend and how long you want it to take. 
The only thing you've ever proven is that you don't understand the subject. Yet you still claim it all fake simply because you don't understand it. You're a Dunning Kruger poster child who doesn't realize that even those who act like they support you are still laughing at you. Thanks for the humor!

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markjo

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10954 on: October 18, 2019, 08:01:17 AM »
Heiwa has a point. If someone says they will do a fly by around the sun for a gravity assist, you know it's full of shit.
Then it's a good thing that they never said that. 
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10955 on: October 18, 2019, 10:17:09 AM »
How much energy do you need if you only want to go to Orbit?

That depends on the mass of the vehicle you want to go into orbit. Lets say you have a Starship like the Enterprise weighing 4,500,000 metric tons. That's 4,500,000,000kg
Except that the Enterprise doesn't use matter/antimatter for the impulse engines (sub-light).  Those are powered by deuterium fusion reactors.  The warp engines are powered by matter/antimatter reaction.

Perhaps we shouldn't wait for prohibitively expensive matter/anti-matter and should start with fusion reactors instead.

I was only using the enterprises size/mass as an example. Getting out of earths orbit takes up most of the juice anyway. Once your in space, the fuel requirement is cheap!

At http://heiwaco.com/moontravelrex.htm#JAP I describe two fake space trips from Earth to 'assteroids' and back to Earth and the fuel used.
To save on fuel the space imagineers at NASA and JAXA uses gravity assist flybyes (LOL), i.e. after an orbit around the Sun our planet Earth kicks the space craft towards the target, i.e. a non-existing assteroid. My ass, what they imagine!

Translation: I don't understand any of it so I assume nobody else does either.
Hm, assteroid Ryugu orbits the Sun between planets Earth and Mars but to visit it the Japan spacecraft Hayabusa 2, starting from Earth March 2014, first made a trip (or two?) around the Sun, returned to Earth for a gravity assist flybye and then flow/was kicked to the target arriving there June 27, 2018. By same logic going to Mars you should first fly around the Sun, return to Earth for a gravity assist flybye to go to Mars, etc.
Anyway, the Hayabusa 2 spacecraft landed on assteroid Ryugu February 22 this year we were told - Fake News? - and is ready to start the return trip to Earth December 2019, so it can land on Earth a year later. Landing will not be in Japan but in a remote area in Australia, where nobody lives.
I agree - I don't understand how the Japanese fly in space. Why not go straight to the target, land there and then return the same way. I simply think the whole thing is a hoax. Only idiots fly around in space collecting 0.1 gram of top soil from an assteroid.
And you continue to prove you don't understand it. You COULD do an orbit around the Sun and gravity assist with Earth to go to Mars. You don't have to. It depends on how much energy you want to expend and how long you want it to take. 
The only thing you've ever proven is that you don't understand the subject. Yet you still claim it all fake simply because you don't understand it. You're a Dunning Kruger poster child who doesn't realize that even those who act like they support you are still laughing at you. Thanks for the humor!
Topic is my Challenge, which I understand very well, while I just get richer and richer due to my clever investments and new biz.
In my biz - safe maritime transport - fuel is vital. To go from A to B over the oceans, there is always an optimal combination of time and fuel spent of the trip. Going to fast costs too much fuel, going slow saves fuel but you arrive late. To maximize profit (or reduce loss) you have to plan.
So I maximize profits and get popular.   I love it. Only stupid, anonymous, envious twerps are upset.

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markjo

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10956 on: October 18, 2019, 12:13:27 PM »
In my biz - safe maritime transport - fuel is vital. To go from A to B over the oceans, there is always an optimal combination of time and fuel spent of the trip. Going to fast costs too much fuel, going slow saves fuel but you arrive late. To maximize profit (or reduce loss) you have to plan.
That's nice, but ships at sea and spacecraft in space have very few things in common.  For example, a ship at sea needs to burn fuel constantly to maintain its speed.  On the other hand, a spacecraft accelerates to a certain speed and then coasts pretty much the rest of the way.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10957 on: October 18, 2019, 01:57:03 PM »
Also, fuel costs in rockets are about as important as toilet paper cost to oil tanker.
Rockets cost hundreds of times more than the fuel, that's why reusabilty is key to the future of access to space
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10958 on: October 18, 2019, 04:19:04 PM »
Is Hewia still upset that his crap tanker design was rejected from entering US Waterways?
Rabinoz RIP

That would put you in the same category as pedophile perverts like John Davis, NSS, robots like Stash, Shifter, and victimized kids like Alexey.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10959 on: October 18, 2019, 08:28:59 PM »
In my biz - safe maritime transport - fuel is vital. To go from A to B over the oceans, there is always an optimal combination of time and fuel spent of the trip. Going to fast costs too much fuel, going slow saves fuel but you arrive late. To maximize profit (or reduce loss) you have to plan.
That's nice, but ships at sea and spacecraft in space have very few things in common.  For example, a ship at sea needs to burn fuel constantly to maintain its speed.  On the other hand, a spacecraft accelerates to a certain speed and then coasts pretty much the rest of the way.
Well, there are sailing ships that do not use any fuel. Was very popular before year 1900! Have you ever been on a sailboat?

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markjo

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10960 on: October 18, 2019, 08:38:38 PM »
Well, there are sailing ships that do not use any fuel. Was very popular before year 1900! Have you ever been on a sailboat?
Have you ever heard of a solar sail?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/23/science/lightsail-solar-sail.html
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10961 on: October 18, 2019, 11:04:10 PM »
Well, there are sailing ships that do not use any fuel. Was very popular before year 1900! Have you ever been on a sailboat?
Have you ever heard of a solar sail?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/23/science/lightsail-solar-sail.html

Yes, fantasies as usual. Why would anyone sail in vacuum Universe? There is nothing there. More fun is a cruise in the Caribbean with champagne, caviar, lobster, moonlight glittering the waves, etc.

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markjo

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10962 on: October 19, 2019, 09:45:00 AM »
Why would anyone sail in vacuum Universe?
Science.  But that's something that you obviously wouldn't understand.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10963 on: October 19, 2019, 10:00:00 AM »
Why would anyone sail in vacuum Universe?
Science.  But that's something that you obviously wouldn't understand.
Yes, I don't understand why anybody human would sail in vacuum space of the Universe. Going where? Pls explain! Does the space sail ship have toilets? Showers. What do you do while sailing in space? Scientific experiments?

Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10964 on: October 19, 2019, 10:24:28 AM »
Very concerned about the toilet...
2nd post ive noticed.

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The Real Celine Dion

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10965 on: October 19, 2019, 10:32:09 AM »
Very concerned about the toilet...
2nd post ive noticed.

Oh, you didn't know? Anders has an extreme poop fetish.
You just got Weskered, bitches!

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10966 on: October 19, 2019, 09:34:28 PM »
Very concerned about the toilet...
2nd post ive noticed.

Oh, you didn't know? Anders has an extreme poop fetish.
Not really. But twice the sewage collection tanks of my ships started to leak due to internal corrosion and flooded the double bottom with shit. My job was to repair the tank. A messy job. Imagine doing that in a spacecraft going to Mars!

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10967 on: October 19, 2019, 10:08:01 PM »
Very concerned about the toilet...
2nd post ive noticed.

Oh, you didn't know? Anders has an extreme poop fetish.
Not really. But twice the sewage collection tanks of my ships started to leak due to internal corrosion and flooded the double bottom with shit. My job was to repair the tank. A messy job. Imagine doing that in a spacecraft going to Mars!

Imagine what your nurse has to go through.
Rabinoz RIP

That would put you in the same category as pedophile perverts like John Davis, NSS, robots like Stash, Shifter, and victimized kids like Alexey.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10968 on: October 19, 2019, 10:54:08 PM »
Very concerned about the toilet...
2nd post ive noticed.

Oh, you didn't know? Anders has an extreme poop fetish.
Not really. But twice the sewage collection tanks of my ships started to leak due to internal corrosion and flooded the double bottom with shit. My job was to repair the tank. A messy job. Imagine doing that in a spacecraft going to Mars!

Imagine what your nurse has to go through.

Heiwas not wrong. A damaged sewage system in a spacecraft would be doom for its passengers. The gases would displace the oxygen. On a ship in the open seas it's not much of a problem. Lots of air exchange. On a spacecraft it's vacuum. The asstronuts would die from hypoxia before they even realised they were literally in deep shit

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what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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Bullwinkle

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10969 on: October 20, 2019, 02:09:45 AM »
No, their DNA would quickly adapt and protect them from space poo gas.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10970 on: October 20, 2019, 10:15:15 AM »
No, their DNA would quickly adapt and protect them from space poo gas.
No, you sound like a NASA sewage system imagineer. Anyway, nobody visits a loo in space. It is all done down on Earth.

Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10971 on: October 20, 2019, 12:23:42 PM »
Very concerned about the toilet...
2nd post ive noticed.

Oh, you didn't know? Anders has an extreme poop fetish.
Not really. But twice the sewage collection tanks of my ships started to leak due to internal corrosion and flooded the double bottom with shit. My job was to repair the tank. A messy job. Imagine doing that in a spacecraft going to Mars!

You worked on the open sea?
Have you met googtomony?

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markjo

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10972 on: October 20, 2019, 05:02:22 PM »
Very concerned about the toilet...
2nd post ive noticed.

Oh, you didn't know? Anders has an extreme poop fetish.
Not really. But twice the sewage collection tanks of my ships started to leak due to internal corrosion and flooded the double bottom with shit. My job was to repair the tank. A messy job. Imagine doing that in a spacecraft going to Mars!

Imagine what your nurse has to go through.

Heiwas not wrong. A damaged sewage system in a spacecraft would be doom for its passengers.
Current spacecraft don't really have what most would consider a sewage system.  The solid waste goes into plastic bags and most of the liquid waste gets recycled into drinking water.
https://www.sciencealert.com/a-nasa-astronaut-reveals-the-horrors-of-going-to-the-bathroom-in-space

The gases would displace the oxygen. On a ship in the open seas it's not much of a problem. Lots of air exchange. On a spacecraft it's vacuum. The asstronuts would die from hypoxia before they even realised they were literally in deep shit
Only if the air quality sensors don't pick it up, or no no one smells it.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10973 on: October 21, 2019, 12:31:43 AM »
Yes, toilets are an issue.
But worrying about toilets at this stage is a bit like worrying where to put your Olympic gold medal for Archery before you have even bought your very first bow. Its a tiny, rather easy to solve step along the path of a lot of hard parts.

Besides, they have toilets on the ISS, its a solved problem.

The hard parts are getting rockets into space reliably and cheaply. That is where we are now. That is what SpaceX, blue origin and a few others are trying to do. And it seems very likely that they are achieving those goals.

Once that is figured out, then there will be new challenges such as toilets, sleeping arrangements, how to make a perfect espresso.

If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10974 on: October 21, 2019, 01:44:52 AM »
Yes, toilets are an issue.
I fully agree. To win my Challenge - topic - post #1 - you have, apart from calculating the fuel required to go to the Moon and Mars, also describe the toilet(s) aboard used by the passengers/crew.

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Stash

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10975 on: October 21, 2019, 02:18:37 AM »
Yes, toilets are an issue.
I fully agree. To win my Challenge - topic - post #1 - you have, apart from calculating the fuel required to go to the Moon and Mars, also describe the toilet(s) aboard used by the passengers/crew.

You mean this bit:

"16. Miscellaneous Make a short description of the accommdation, sanitary and safety facilities, restaurants, lectures and entertainment aboard your spacecraft to keep the officers, crew and passengers happy during the trip, etc. Maybe external space walks cheer up the passengers?"

Is this required to win the challenge?

If so, how is my answer judged? Based upon what criteria? Who is to say that my idea of keeping the crew and passengers 'happy' doesn't mean debilitating and complex sanitary practices?

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10976 on: October 21, 2019, 04:21:59 AM »
Yes, toilets are an issue.
I fully agree. To win my Challenge - topic - post #1 - you have, apart from calculating the fuel required to go to the Moon and Mars, also describe the toilet(s) aboard used by the passengers/crew.

You mean this bit:

"16. Miscellaneous Make a short description of the accommdation, sanitary and safety facilities, restaurants, lectures and entertainment aboard your spacecraft to keep the officers, crew and passengers happy during the trip, etc. Maybe external space walks cheer up the passengers?"

Is this required to win the challenge?

If so, how is my answer judged? Based upon what criteria? Who is to say that my idea of keeping the crew and passengers 'happy' doesn't mean debilitating and complex sanitary practices?

Thanks for asking about http://heiwaco.tripod.com/chall2.htm .
Another important bit is #15. The landing.
Any person doing a space trip must return safe and sound on Earth. But how?

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10977 on: October 21, 2019, 04:59:30 AM »
Thanks for asking about http://heiwaco.tripod.com/chall2.htm .
Another important bit is #15. The landing.
Any person doing a space trip must return safe and sound on Earth. But how?
This is just stupid.
You dont believe re-entry using any technology is possible, even though its been done hundreds of times.
So how is someone supposed to demonstrate this to you? Other than sending you up in a rocket and landing again?
Is this your scam to get a free flight into space?
Your "challenge" is about convincing you, not proving anything.

If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10978 on: October 21, 2019, 07:19:54 AM »
Thanks for asking about http://heiwaco.tripod.com/chall2.htm .
Another important bit is #15. The landing.
Any person doing a space trip must return safe and sound on Earth. But how?
This is just stupid.
You dont believe re-entry using any technology is possible, even though its been done hundreds of times.
So how is someone supposed to demonstrate this to you? Other than sending you up in a rocket and landing again?
Is this your scam to get a free flight into space?
Your "challenge" is about convincing you, not proving anything.
You are stupid!
Topic is my popular Challenge and I know a re-entry is not possible as described at http://heiwaco.com/moontraveld.htm .
So no re-entry has ever been done.
I was offered a free flight way back but I had to sign a contract to the effect that it was fantastic. Every astro-not is a paid liar!

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #10979 on: October 21, 2019, 10:09:17 AM »
You are stupid!
When manners leaves the room all conversation goes down the drain.
I will admit I have called you a few things, but I will leave the silly talk to kids from here on.

Topic is my popular Challenge and I know a re-entry is not possible as described at http://heiwaco.com/moontraveld.htm .
So no re-entry has ever been done.
I was offered a free flight way back but I had to sign a contract to the effect that it was fantastic. Every astro-not is a paid liar!
So this is the problem with your challenge, and why no one will bother with it.
You have already decided the outcome of the challenge. So anyone that partakes in it is a liar, and no further study is required. Your the mot bias person to judge the winner, but you are the only judge.

It a big like asking a Stern outspoken Vegan, Green peace and PETA activist to judge what tastes better, a perfectly seared steak or broccoli.

So no, you dont have a challenge.

You have along running thread where people pop in from time to time because they are bored.
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat