I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2190 on: July 02, 2015, 07:30:37 AM »
But I have answered your question several times. Yes I agree reentry (of a spaceship) is associated with finite amounts of energy (heat) that must be taken care of.

Finally.

Now, do you agree that it takes finite amounts of energy (heat) to melt things?

So another question to answer. Yes, heat is required to melt things like ice, heat shields, etc, but not Shuttle ceramic tiles developed by NASA.
When are you going to prove that re-entry is possible for a spaceship full of humans?

So Heiwa,

There is a finite amount of heat generated upon re-entry and there is a finite amount of heat required to melt an object. Therefore all we need to do is make sure that the heat required to melt the heat shield of the capsule is more than the heat generated upon re-entry. This is done by tailoring the type and thickness of the heat shield material. Simple. Re-entry possible.

Melt the heat shield? The Shuttle used NASA ceramic tiles that could dissipate infinite amount of heat = no melting. I explain the NASA lies at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel2.htm.

I still await mikeman7819's evidence that re-entry of a spaceship with humans aboard is possible. To win my Challenge you must explain the re-entry - so far it is unclear if mikeman7819 uses melting heat shields or non-melting NASA tiles.

May the jury note that Heiwa has conceded that ablation heat shields work (like Apollo's), and moved on to another point.

Hm, ablation heat shields do not work - they just melt and the spaceship is destroyed, if you try it. Therefore no human space ship re-entries have ever taken place. They are all hoaxes, which I explain at my web site. This is the reason why nobody will win my Challenge (topic).
Imagine all fantasy trips in space being done so far by say >600 persons. Dr. Buzz was one of the first. He is now a blubbering alchoholic that everybody laughs at.

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Conker

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2191 on: July 02, 2015, 07:53:14 AM »
But I have answered your question several times. Yes I agree reentry (of a spaceship) is associated with finite amounts of energy (heat) that must be taken care of.

Finally.

Now, do you agree that it takes finite amounts of energy (heat) to melt things?

So another question to answer. Yes, heat is required to melt things like ice, heat shields, etc, but not Shuttle ceramic tiles developed by NASA.
When are you going to prove that re-entry is possible for a spaceship full of humans?

So Heiwa,

There is a finite amount of heat generated upon re-entry and there is a finite amount of heat required to melt an object. Therefore all we need to do is make sure that the heat required to melt the heat shield of the capsule is more than the heat generated upon re-entry. This is done by tailoring the type and thickness of the heat shield material. Simple. Re-entry possible.

Melt the heat shield? The Shuttle used NASA ceramic tiles that could dissipate infinite amount of heat = no melting. I explain the NASA lies at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel2.htm.

I still await mikeman7819's evidence that re-entry of a spaceship with humans aboard is possible. To win my Challenge you must explain the re-entry - so far it is unclear if mikeman7819 uses melting heat shields or non-melting NASA tiles.

May the jury note that Heiwa has conceded that ablation heat shields work (like Apollo's), and moved on to another point.

Hm, ablation heat shields do not work - they just melt and the spaceship is destroyed, if you try it. Therefore no human space ship re-entries have ever taken place. They are all hoaxes, which I explain at my web site. This is the reason why nobody will win my Challenge (topic).
Imagine all fantasy trips in space being done so far by say >600 persons. Dr. Buzz was one of the first. He is now a blubbering alchoholic that everybody laughs at.

That contradicts your previous statement that reentry generates a limited amount of heat.
This is not a joke society.
Quote from: OpenedEyes
You shouldn't be allowed to talk on a free discussion forum.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2192 on: July 02, 2015, 01:45:25 PM »
But I have answered your question several times. Yes I agree reentry (of a spaceship) is associated with finite amounts of energy (heat) that must be taken care of.

Finally.

Now, do you agree that it takes finite amounts of energy (heat) to melt things?

So another question to answer. Yes, heat is required to melt things like ice, heat shields, etc, but not Shuttle ceramic tiles developed by NASA.
When are you going to prove that re-entry is possible for a spaceship full of humans?

So Heiwa,

There is a finite amount of heat generated upon re-entry and there is a finite amount of heat required to melt an object. Therefore all we need to do is make sure that the heat required to melt the heat shield of the capsule is more than the heat generated upon re-entry. This is done by tailoring the type and thickness of the heat shield material. Simple. Re-entry possible.

Melt the heat shield? The Shuttle used NASA ceramic tiles that could dissipate infinite amount of heat = no melting. I explain the NASA lies at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel2.htm.

I still await mikeman7819's evidence that re-entry of a spaceship with humans aboard is possible. To win my Challenge you must explain the re-entry - so far it is unclear if mikeman7819 uses melting heat shields or non-melting NASA tiles.

May the jury note that Heiwa has conceded that ablation heat shields work (like Apollo's), and moved on to another point.

Hm, ablation heat shields do not work - they just melt and the spaceship is destroyed, if you try it. Therefore no human space ship re-entries have ever taken place. They are all hoaxes, which I explain at my web site. This is the reason why nobody will win my Challenge (topic).
Imagine all fantasy trips in space being done so far by say >600 persons. Dr. Buzz was one of the first. He is now a blubbering alchoholic that everybody laughs at.

That contradicts your previous statement that reentry generates a limited amount of heat.

Not really. On the contrary all reentries generate sufficient heat to vaporize the spaceship. Reentries also generate brake forces applied on the spaceship itself. These forces crush the spaceship structure that then is vaporized.
When a spaceship penetrates the interface between vacuum space and Earth's atmosphere and collides with the molecules there at high speed, it is like dropping into water. And nobody survives dropping into water from say 100 m altitude. Try yourself.

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Conker

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2193 on: July 02, 2015, 01:49:37 PM »
But I have answered your question several times. Yes I agree reentry (of a spaceship) is associated with finite amounts of energy (heat) that must be taken care of.

Finally.

Now, do you agree that it takes finite amounts of energy (heat) to melt things?

So another question to answer. Yes, heat is required to melt things like ice, heat shields, etc, but not Shuttle ceramic tiles developed by NASA.
When are you going to prove that re-entry is possible for a spaceship full of humans?

So Heiwa,

There is a finite amount of heat generated upon re-entry and there is a finite amount of heat required to melt an object. Therefore all we need to do is make sure that the heat required to melt the heat shield of the capsule is more than the heat generated upon re-entry. This is done by tailoring the type and thickness of the heat shield material. Simple. Re-entry possible.

Melt the heat shield? The Shuttle used NASA ceramic tiles that could dissipate infinite amount of heat = no melting. I explain the NASA lies at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel2.htm.

I still await mikeman7819's evidence that re-entry of a spaceship with humans aboard is possible. To win my Challenge you must explain the re-entry - so far it is unclear if mikeman7819 uses melting heat shields or non-melting NASA tiles.

May the jury note that Heiwa has conceded that ablation heat shields work (like Apollo's), and moved on to another point.

Hm, ablation heat shields do not work - they just melt and the spaceship is destroyed, if you try it. Therefore no human space ship re-entries have ever taken place. They are all hoaxes, which I explain at my web site. This is the reason why nobody will win my Challenge (topic).
Imagine all fantasy trips in space being done so far by say >600 persons. Dr. Buzz was one of the first. He is now a blubbering alchoholic that everybody laughs at.

That contradicts your previous statement that reentry generates a limited amount of heat.

Not really. On the contrary all reentries generate sufficient heat to vaporize the spaceship. Reentries also generate brake forces applied on the spaceship itself. These forces crush the spaceship structure that then is vaporized.
When a spaceship penetrates the interface between vacuum space and Earth's atmosphere and collides with the molecules there at high speed, it is like dropping into water. And nobody survives dropping into water from say 100 m altitude. Try yourself.
There is no hard interface between vacuum and the atmosphere. The atmosphere thickens gradually. In fact, LEO is still inside the atmosphere.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 01:52:33 PM by Conker »
This is not a joke society.
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You shouldn't be allowed to talk on a free discussion forum.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2194 on: July 02, 2015, 02:07:40 PM »
But I have answered your question several times. Yes I agree reentry (of a spaceship) is associated with finite amounts of energy (heat) that must be taken care of.

Finally.

Now, do you agree that it takes finite amounts of energy (heat) to melt things?

So another question to answer. Yes, heat is required to melt things like ice, heat shields, etc, but not Shuttle ceramic tiles developed by NASA.
When are you going to prove that re-entry is possible for a spaceship full of humans?

So Heiwa,

There is a finite amount of heat generated upon re-entry and there is a finite amount of heat required to melt an object. Therefore all we need to do is make sure that the heat required to melt the heat shield of the capsule is more than the heat generated upon re-entry. This is done by tailoring the type and thickness of the heat shield material. Simple. Re-entry possible.

Melt the heat shield? The Shuttle used NASA ceramic tiles that could dissipate infinite amount of heat = no melting. I explain the NASA lies at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel2.htm.

I still await mikeman7819's evidence that re-entry of a spaceship with humans aboard is possible. To win my Challenge you must explain the re-entry - so far it is unclear if mikeman7819 uses melting heat shields or non-melting NASA tiles.

May the jury note that Heiwa has conceded that ablation heat shields work (like Apollo's), and moved on to another point.

Hm, ablation heat shields do not work - they just melt and the spaceship is destroyed, if you try it. Therefore no human space ship re-entries have ever taken place. They are all hoaxes, which I explain at my web site. This is the reason why nobody will win my Challenge (topic).
Imagine all fantasy trips in space being done so far by say >600 persons. Dr. Buzz was one of the first. He is now a blubbering alchoholic that everybody laughs at.

That contradicts your previous statement that reentry generates a limited amount of heat.

Not really. On the contrary all reentries generate sufficient heat to vaporize the spaceship. Reentries also generate brake forces applied on the spaceship itself. These forces crush the spaceship structure that then is vaporized.
When a spaceship penetrates the interface between vacuum space and Earth's atmosphere and collides with the molecules there at high speed, it is like dropping into water. And nobody survives dropping into water from say 100 m altitude. Try yourself.
There is no hard interface between vacuum and the atmosphere. The atmosphere thickens gradually. In fact, LEO is still inside the atmosphere.


Wrong again. LEO is in vacuum space at >350 km altitude, i.e. high above any atmosphere. At about 100 km altitude you collide with molecules and you will not reach 50 km altitude at any reentry because you are wiped out before that. Basic. Happens to meteorites daily.
Why do you post off topic nonsense here?

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Conker

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2195 on: July 02, 2015, 02:25:57 PM »
But I have answered your question several times. Yes I agree reentry (of a spaceship) is associated with finite amounts of energy (heat) that must be taken care of.

Finally.

Now, do you agree that it takes finite amounts of energy (heat) to melt things?

So another question to answer. Yes, heat is required to melt things like ice, heat shields, etc, but not Shuttle ceramic tiles developed by NASA.
When are you going to prove that re-entry is possible for a spaceship full of humans?

So Heiwa,

There is a finite amount of heat generated upon re-entry and there is a finite amount of heat required to melt an object. Therefore all we need to do is make sure that the heat required to melt the heat shield of the capsule is more than the heat generated upon re-entry. This is done by tailoring the type and thickness of the heat shield material. Simple. Re-entry possible.

Melt the heat shield? The Shuttle used NASA ceramic tiles that could dissipate infinite amount of heat = no melting. I explain the NASA lies at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel2.htm.

I still await mikeman7819's evidence that re-entry of a spaceship with humans aboard is possible. To win my Challenge you must explain the re-entry - so far it is unclear if mikeman7819 uses melting heat shields or non-melting NASA tiles.

May the jury note that Heiwa has conceded that ablation heat shields work (like Apollo's), and moved on to another point.

Hm, ablation heat shields do not work - they just melt and the spaceship is destroyed, if you try it. Therefore no human space ship re-entries have ever taken place. They are all hoaxes, which I explain at my web site. This is the reason why nobody will win my Challenge (topic).
Imagine all fantasy trips in space being done so far by say >600 persons. Dr. Buzz was one of the first. He is now a blubbering alchoholic that everybody laughs at.

That contradicts your previous statement that reentry generates a limited amount of heat.

Not really. On the contrary all reentries generate sufficient heat to vaporize the spaceship. Reentries also generate brake forces applied on the spaceship itself. These forces crush the spaceship structure that then is vaporized.
When a spaceship penetrates the interface between vacuum space and Earth's atmosphere and collides with the molecules there at high speed, it is like dropping into water. And nobody survives dropping into water from say 100 m altitude. Try yourself.
There is no hard interface between vacuum and the atmosphere. The atmosphere thickens gradually. In fact, LEO is still inside the atmosphere.


Wrong again. LEO is in vacuum space at >350 km altitude, i.e. high above any atmosphere. At about 100 km altitude you collide with molecules and you will not reach 50 km altitude at any reentry because you are wiped out before that. Basic. Happens to meteorites daily.
Why do you post off topic nonsense here?

Wrong
Quote
A low Earth orbit (LEO) is an orbit around Earth with an altitude between 160 kilometers (99 mi) (orbital period of about 88 minutes), and 2,000 kilometers
This is not a joke society.
Quote from: OpenedEyes
You shouldn't be allowed to talk on a free discussion forum.

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markjo

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2196 on: July 02, 2015, 03:41:43 PM »
Wrong again. LEO is in vacuum space at >350 km altitude, i.e. high above any atmosphere.
The thermosphere does not have precise boundaries, but it generally starts at about 95-120 km and goes out to around 500-1000 km.  Beyond that, the exosphere extends out into interplanetary space where solar wind particles out number terrestrial gasses.  With the exception of the moon landings, all human space flight has taken place within the thermosphere.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 03:43:32 PM by markjo »
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Dog

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2197 on: July 02, 2015, 06:01:07 PM »
Hm, ablation heat shields do not work - they just melt and the spaceship is destroyed, if you try it. Therefore no human space ship re-entries have ever taken place. They are all hoaxes, which I explain at my web site. This is the reason why nobody will win my Challenge (topic).
Imagine all fantasy trips in space being done so far by say >600 persons. Dr. Buzz was one of the first. He is now a blubbering alchoholic that everybody laughs at.

You already said that reentry generates a finite amount of heat. Humans can work with that. Just make something that can tolerate that amount. You agreed to this.

Now you're stating that the shield will still melt.

You can't have it both ways. Pick.

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mikeman7918

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2198 on: July 02, 2015, 07:22:53 PM »
So another question to answer. Yes, heat is required to melt things like ice, heat shields, etc, but not Shuttle ceramic tiles developed by NASA.
When are you going to prove that re-entry is possible for a spaceship full of humans?

(It took me this long to respond because I had to travel home from a trip today and pack yesterday)

OK.  This means that if you pack enough heat shielding then melting it would take enough to absorb all the heat generated by reentry, correct?  If you have a finite amount of heat then surely it wouldn't take infinite material.  Also, air is a very good insulator so it doesn't conduct much of it's heat to the heat shield in the first place.

Just to be clear, I am talking about an Apollo style heat shield.  They are very simple and since you are having a hard time comprehending even that then you don't have a chance of comprehending how reusable heat shields work.  Your whole challenge is about the plausibility of the Apollo missions, so it seems fair to use Apollo style heat shields.

I am planning on doing detailed heat transfer calculations, and I will show my work so you can't refute my answer.  If your only problem with manned space travel is that reentry is impossible, then this will make what's left of your argument crumble before your eyes.  I have been putting it off because the calculations and research will be rather hard and time consuming, but I plan to get right to them very soon.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2199 on: July 02, 2015, 09:33:36 PM »
Hm, ablation heat shields do not work - they just melt and the spaceship is destroyed, if you try it. Therefore no human space ship re-entries have ever taken place. They are all hoaxes, which I explain at my web site. This is the reason why nobody will win my Challenge (topic).
Imagine all fantasy trips in space being done so far by say >600 persons. Dr. Buzz was one of the first. He is now a blubbering alchoholic that everybody laughs at.

You already said that reentry generates a finite amount of heat. Humans can work with that. Just make something that can tolerate that amount. You agreed to this.

Now you're stating that the shield will still melt.

You can't have it both ways. Pick.

Hm, reentry generates heat that melts the spaceship. Reentry also generates forces that compresses and crushes the spaceship. There is no way anything built by man, e.g. a spaceship, can return and land on Earth.  What you have heard to the contrary is just propaganda. There is no evidence that reentry is possible. Rather the opposite, e.g. what happens to meterorites entering the atmosphere.
I have a feeling you are brainwashed to believe in impossible things like reentries, etc.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2200 on: July 02, 2015, 09:42:07 PM »
So another question to answer. Yes, heat is required to melt things like ice, heat shields, etc, but not Shuttle ceramic tiles developed by NASA.
When are you going to prove that re-entry is possible for a spaceship full of humans?

(It took me this long to respond because I had to travel home from a trip today and pack yesterday)

OK.  This means that if you pack enough heat shielding then melting it would take enough to absorb all the heat generated by reentry, correct?  If you have a finite amount of heat then surely it wouldn't take infinite material.  Also, air is a very good insulator so it doesn't conduct much of it's heat to the heat shield in the first place.

Just to be clear, I am talking about an Apollo style heat shield.  They are very simple and since you are having a hard time comprehending even that then you don't have a chance of comprehending how reusable heat shields work.  Your whole challenge is about the plausibility of the Apollo missions, so it seems fair to use Apollo style heat shields.

I am planning on doing detailed heat transfer calculations, and I will show my work so you can't refute my answer.  If your only problem with manned space travel is that reentry is impossible, then this will make what's left of your argument crumble before your eyes.  I have been putting it off because the calculations and research will be rather hard and time consuming, but I plan to get right to them very soon.

Suggest you ask NASA for assistance. NASA must already have done the necessary research and testing incl. detailed heat transfer calculations in the 1960's to ensure that Apollo 11 didn't burn up or was crushed at re-entry 1969. 
Or ask the Russians! They performed a renetry already 1961 with a canon ball shaped spaceship. I describe it all at my website http://heiwaco.com .

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Bill_the_Pretender

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2201 on: July 02, 2015, 10:09:39 PM »
Hm, ablation heat shields do not work - they just melt and the spaceship is destroyed, if you try it. Therefore no human space ship re-entries have ever taken place. They are all hoaxes, which I explain at my web site. This is the reason why nobody will win my Challenge (topic).
Imagine all fantasy trips in space being done so far by say >600 persons. Dr. Buzz was one of the first. He is now a blubbering alchoholic that everybody laughs at.

You already said that reentry generates a finite amount of heat. Humans can work with that. Just make something that can tolerate that amount. You agreed to this.

Now you're stating that the shield will still melt.

You can't have it both ways. Pick.

Hm, reentry generates heat that melts the spaceship. Reentry also generates forces that compresses and crushes the spaceship. There is no way anything built by man, e.g. a spaceship, can return and land on Earth.  What you have heard to the contrary is just propaganda. There is no evidence that reentry is possible. Rather the opposite, e.g. what happens to meterorites entering the atmosphere.
I have a feeling you are brainwashed to believe in impossible things like reentries, etc.

Meteorites survive reentry plenty of times. The United States alone has collected tens of thousands of em.
I'd be an FE believer, but I'm not stupid. I have Internets.

Proof the Earth is round, not flat: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63853.new#new
Debunking Flat Earth Theory completely: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2202 on: July 02, 2015, 11:46:51 PM »
Hm, ablation heat shields do not work - they just melt and the spaceship is destroyed, if you try it. Therefore no human space ship re-entries have ever taken place. They are all hoaxes, which I explain at my web site. This is the reason why nobody will win my Challenge (topic).
Imagine all fantasy trips in space being done so far by say >600 persons. Dr. Buzz was one of the first. He is now a blubbering alchoholic that everybody laughs at.

You already said that reentry generates a finite amount of heat. Humans can work with that. Just make something that can tolerate that amount. You agreed to this.

Now you're stating that the shield will still melt.

You can't have it both ways. Pick.

Hm, reentry generates heat that melts the spaceship. Reentry also generates forces that compresses and crushes the spaceship. There is no way anything built by man, e.g. a spaceship, can return and land on Earth.  What you have heard to the contrary is just propaganda. There is no evidence that reentry is possible. Rather the opposite, e.g. what happens to meterorites entering the atmosphere.
I have a feeling you are brainwashed to believe in impossible things like reentries, etc.

Meteorites survive reentry plenty of times. The United States alone has collected tens of thousands of em.

Meteorites do not reenter! They have not been sent up from planet Earth trying to return again. Meteorites arrive from space and, attracted by Earth's gravity, pass once through the atmosphere, are heated up and subject to great pressure forces in the process that destroys them. Bits and pieces of such meteorites are sometimes found on the ground.
What you write is off topic nonsense. Why do you waste your time with it?

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Dog

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2203 on: July 02, 2015, 11:49:35 PM »
Hm, reentry generates heat that melts the spaceship. Reentry also generates forces that compresses and crushes the spaceship. There is no way anything built by man, e.g. a spaceship, can return and land on Earth.  What you have heard to the contrary is just propaganda. There is no evidence that reentry is possible. Rather the opposite, e.g. what happens to meterorites entering the atmosphere.
I have a feeling you are brainwashed to believe in impossible things like reentries, etc.

You're still contradicting yourself. Pick a side. You can't have it both ways. Either everything gets destroyed on reentry (which we know isn't true), or things do because of a finite amount of heat, which we can overcome by building something that can withstand that amount of heat. Pick.

If you contradict yourself again we're going to assume you have no input on the subject.

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Dog

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2204 on: July 02, 2015, 11:51:58 PM »
They have not been sent up from planet Earth trying to return again.

Doesn't matter. Literally 0 reason to believe that matters. Things that are already in space aren't magic. It's just rocks, dust, and ice.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2205 on: July 03, 2015, 12:13:49 AM »
Hm, reentry generates heat that melts the spaceship. Reentry also generates forces that compresses and crushes the spaceship. There is no way anything built by man, e.g. a spaceship, can return and land on Earth.  What you have heard to the contrary is just propaganda. There is no evidence that reentry is possible. Rather the opposite, e.g. what happens to meterorites entering the atmosphere.
I have a feeling you are brainwashed to believe in impossible things like reentries, etc.

You're still contradicting yourself. Pick a side. You can't have it both ways. Either everything gets destroyed on reentry (which we know isn't true), or things do because of a finite amount of heat, which we can overcome by building something that can withstand that amount of heat. Pick.

If you contradict yourself again we're going to assume you have no input on the subject.

You are wrong again. At reentry the spaceship is subject to friction/heat and pressure forces that it cannot withstand. The spaceship will be destroyed. NASA and the Soviet space authority have not been able to present any evidence to the contrary since 1960's. You seem to live in a fantasy world probably due to being brainwashed. My Challenge (topic) is a way to show that human space travel incl. return on Earth is physically impossible. Why get upset about it? Human space travel is just an April 1 joke.

Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2206 on: July 03, 2015, 12:28:09 AM »
Hm, reentry generates heat that melts the spaceship. Reentry also generates forces that compresses and crushes the spaceship. There is no way anything built by man, e.g. a spaceship, can return and land on Earth.  What you have heard to the contrary is just propaganda. There is no evidence that reentry is possible. Rather the opposite, e.g. what happens to meterorites entering the atmosphere.
I have a feeling you are brainwashed to believe in impossible things like reentries, etc.

You're still contradicting yourself. Pick a side. You can't have it both ways. Either everything gets destroyed on reentry (which we know isn't true), or things do because of a finite amount of heat, which we can overcome by building something that can withstand that amount of heat. Pick.

If you contradict yourself again we're going to assume you have no input on the subject.

You are wrong again. At reentry the spaceship is subject to friction/heat and pressure forces that it cannot withstand. The spaceship will be destroyed. NASA and the Soviet space authority have not been able to present any evidence to the contrary since 1960's. You seem to live in a fantasy world probably due to being brainwashed. My Challenge (topic) is a way to show that human space travel incl. return on Earth is physically impossible. Why get upset about it? Human space travel is just an April 1 joke.

Two questions for you:

1) If a finite amount of heat is generated on re-entry (to which you agreed), and the this heat is less than that required to melt a thick enough heat shield then the spacecraft itself would not melt?

2) What is the measured force imparted on the spacecraft during the re-entry?
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

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mikeman7918

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2207 on: July 03, 2015, 12:37:29 AM »
Suggest you ask NASA for assistance. NASA must already have done the necessary research and testing incl. detailed heat transfer calculations in the 1960's to ensure that Apollo 11 didn't burn up or was crushed at re-entry 1969. 
Or ask the Russians! They performed a renetry already 1961 with a canon ball shaped spaceship. I describe it all at my website http://heiwaco.com .

NASA is too busy doing actual space travel, and unlike you I am perfectly capable of doing a bit of math.  I plan on calculating the percentage if a ship's mass that would have to be heat shielding for it to survive a controlled reentry.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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Conker

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2208 on: July 03, 2015, 12:46:39 AM »
Hm, reentry generates heat that melts the spaceship. Reentry also generates forces that compresses and crushes the spaceship. There is no way anything built by man, e.g. a spaceship, can return and land on Earth.  What you have heard to the contrary is just propaganda. There is no evidence that reentry is possible. Rather the opposite, e.g. what happens to meterorites entering the atmosphere.
I have a feeling you are brainwashed to believe in impossible things like reentries, etc.

You're still contradicting yourself. Pick a side. You can't have it both ways. Either everything gets destroyed on reentry (which we know isn't true), or things do because of a finite amount of heat, which we can overcome by building something that can withstand that amount of heat. Pick.

If you contradict yourself again we're going to assume you have no input on the subject.

You are wrong again. At reentry the spaceship is subject to friction/heat and pressure forces that it cannot withstand. The spaceship will be destroyed. NASA and the Soviet space authority have not been able to present any evidence to the contrary since 1960's. You seem to live in a fantasy world probably due to being brainwashed. My Challenge (topic) is a way to show that human space travel incl. return on Earth is physically impossible. Why get upset about it? Human space travel is just an April 1 joke.

Two questions for you:

1) If a finite amount of heat is generated on re-entry (to which you agreed), and the this heat is less than that required to melt a thick enough heat shield then the spacecraft itself would not melt?

2) What is the measured force imparted on the spacecraft during the re-entry?
Dint aak him that. I gave him a couple papers that gave that answer, and he refused to read them, aparently
This is not a joke society.
Quote from: OpenedEyes
You shouldn't be allowed to talk on a free discussion forum.

Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2209 on: July 03, 2015, 05:30:36 AM »
There was a comment on another thread that said the reason a conspiracy theorist clings so tightly to their conspiracy is that it is their social identity. There is so much energy, so much of themselves they have built into their construct, it becomes almost bigger than themselves.

Prove the conspiracy wrong, and that persons entire self perceived worth crumbles.

Seems to fit.

Not news to anyone I'm sure, just wanted to throw it out there. 
I'm no rocket scientist, but at least I know the Earth is round, Man went to the Moon, and air exists.

“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” Carl Sagan

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sceptimatic

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2210 on: July 03, 2015, 05:40:17 AM »
There was a comment on another thread that said the reason a conspiracy theorist clings so tightly to their conspiracy is that it is their social identity. There is so much energy, so much of themselves they have built into their construct, it becomes almost bigger than themselves.

Prove the conspiracy wrong, and that persons entire self perceived worth crumbles.

Seems to fit.

Not news to anyone I'm sure, just wanted to throw it out there.
Imagine the state you lot will be in when all your space stuff comes crashing down and you realise you've been Rumplestiltskinned.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2211 on: July 03, 2015, 06:32:17 AM »

Two questions for you:

1) If a finite amount of heat is generated on re-entry (to which you agreed), and the this heat is less than that required to melt a thick enough heat shield then the spacecraft itself would not melt?

2) What is the measured force imparted on the spacecraft during the re-entry?

Aha, more questions!

1. I cannot understand the finite amount heat shield biz. According NASA the Shuttle used ceramic tiles that can absorb infinite amounts of heat so ... why a heat shield at all? Just glue on some ceramic tiles and all problems are solved.

2. The force is a function of the velocity and the shape of the spaceship and the density of the braking medium, i.e. the air. Seagoing ships - my speciality - in the interface water/air are subject to same force. It is established by model tests with due regard to scale effects, etc. and full scale tests. I assume that NASA did some tests before launching Apollo and that the results are available for inspection. My estimate of the re-entry force is that it will compress the space ship like a tin can being stepped on.

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Rayzor

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2212 on: July 03, 2015, 06:59:51 AM »
There was a comment on another thread that said the reason a conspiracy theorist clings so tightly to their conspiracy is that it is their social identity. There is so much energy, so much of themselves they have built into their construct, it becomes almost bigger than themselves.

Prove the conspiracy wrong, and that persons entire self perceived worth crumbles.

Seems to fit.

Not news to anyone I'm sure, just wanted to throw it out there.
Imagine the state you lot will be in when all your space stuff comes crashing down and you realise you've been Rumplestiltskinned.
So who do you think is behind this conspiracy to fake space travel?
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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crocodile

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2213 on: July 03, 2015, 08:47:12 AM »
My estimate of the re-entry force is that it will compress the space ship like a tin can being stepped on.
Hi Anders, could you explain why the re-entry force will compress the space ship like an tin can?

Thanks
Only love

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2214 on: July 03, 2015, 09:17:59 AM »
My estimate of the re-entry force is that it will compress the space ship like a tin can being stepped on.
Hi Anders, could you explain why the re-entry force will compress the space ship like an tin can?

Thanks

Thanks for asking!

The Apollo 11 capsule, like the Shuttle later, was made of thin plate/weak stiffeners and can be seen at some museum of space scrap at Washington, DC. The structural drawings and associated strenght calculations/design loads are still top secret for some strange reasons.

The internal air pressure for the crew was about 1 bar.  The external pressure on the fast moving capsule, when entering at > 10 000 m/s speed  the Earth atmosphere getting denser with reduced altitude, was probably >10 bar = the capsule structure would collapse into itself like a tin can being stepped on.

Stiffeners would break due to overstress, plate panels would bend/buckle and be ripped apart. But I assume the spaceship would have caught fire before that due to friction/heat, etc.
Only brain washed space nuts believing NASA science fiction nonsense believe today in re-entries. Americans are very easy to fool. They believe anything shown on TV.

Of course no re-entry has ever been shown on TV. But there are videos of the inside of American space ships while re-entering. Great fun. See them at my web site.

Rayzor asks about who started the fake space travel biz. It was comrade Nikita Chrustchev, CEO of USSR, sending comrade Gagarin into space 1961. Didn't cost anything - just propaganda.

The Americans fell for it, wetted/dirtied their pants and JFK ordered a fake Moon trip to beat the commies. Great fun! I describe it on my web site. Nothing to get upset about. Enjoy it. I am a very friendly, good looking person. Offer me a drink when you pass Freiberg i.Sa.


« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 09:26:40 AM by Heiwa »

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Conker

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2215 on: July 03, 2015, 10:44:43 AM »
My estimate of the re-entry force is that it will compress the space ship like a tin can being stepped on.
Hi Anders, could you explain why the re-entry force will compress the space ship like an tin can?

Thanks

Thanks for asking!

The Apollo 11 capsule, like the Shuttle later, was made of thin plate/weak stiffeners and can be seen at some museum of space scrap at Washington, DC. The structural drawings and associated strenght calculations/design loads are still top secret for some strange reasons.

The internal air pressure for the crew was about 1 bar.  The external pressure on the fast moving capsule, when entering at > 10 000 m/s speed  the Earth atmosphere getting denser with reduced altitude, was probably >10 bar = the capsule structure would collapse into itself like a tin can being stepped on.

Stiffeners would break due to overstress, plate panels would bend/buckle and be ripped apart. But I assume the spaceship would have caught fire before that due to friction/heat, etc.
Only brain washed space nuts believing NASA science fiction nonsense believe today in re-entries. Americans are very easy to fool. They believe anything shown on TV.

Of course no re-entry has ever been shown on TV. But there are videos of the inside of American space ships while re-entering. Great fun. See them at my web site.

Rayzor asks about who started the fake space travel biz. It was comrade Nikita Chrustchev, CEO of USSR, sending comrade Gagarin into space 1961. Didn't cost anything - just propaganda.

The Americans fell for it, wetted/dirtied their pants and JFK ordered a fake Moon trip to beat the commies. Great fun! I describe it on my web site. Nothing to get upset about. Enjoy it. I am a very friendly, good looking person. Offer me a drink when you pass Freiberg i.Sa.

Since you offer no calculations, I have no way to confirm your hypothesis. NASA's papers at least show any calculation. Besides, as I said earlier, batispheres are sent to much worse pressure ambients. And lets not forget, there had been unmanned reentries, such as the Hayabusa, and many times pieces of orbital crap are found all over the world. For example:
http://www.mk.ru/science/article/2010/02/25/437154-na-mongoliyu-upali-dva-nlo-foto.html, pieces of the second stage of the Delta II rocket. They were tracked by hobbyists, and found on Mongolia. Although the structure is clearly flimsy, and having no heat shielding:



There have been full news stories on this kind of events
http://www.satobs.org/reentry/1979-072B/1979-072B.html

And the Aerospace corporation keeps a register of all fragments recovered
http://www.aerospace.org/cords/reentry-data-2/summary-of-recovered-reentry-debris/

In fact, Soviet helium tanks are infamous for surviving reentry almost every single time. There are lots of "Merkanooka balls" all over the world from helium tanks. How come those do survive?  Even when the (to put midly) poorly aerodynamic MIR was put into reentry in a trajectory engineered to avoid population, maximize the destruction of the station and fall into the Pacific, people were able to get chunks of it.



Clearly, it seems like even flimsy sheeting can survive reentry, even in cases where the intention is to fully destroy it. Why wouldnt a specifically engineered shield be able to survive controlled reentry on a favourable minnimal shock trajectory?
This is not a joke society.
Quote from: OpenedEyes
You shouldn't be allowed to talk on a free discussion forum.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2216 on: July 03, 2015, 12:39:19 PM »
My estimate of the re-entry force is that it will compress the space ship like a tin can being stepped on.
Hi Anders, could you explain why the re-entry force will compress the space ship like an tin can?

Thanks

Thanks for asking!

The Apollo 11 capsule, like the Shuttle later, was made of thin plate/weak stiffeners and can be seen at some museum of space scrap at Washington, DC. The structural drawings and associated strenght calculations/design loads are still top secret for some strange reasons.

The internal air pressure for the crew was about 1 bar.  The external pressure on the fast moving capsule, when entering at > 10 000 m/s speed  the Earth atmosphere getting denser with reduced altitude, was probably >10 bar = the capsule structure would collapse into itself like a tin can being stepped on.

Stiffeners would break due to overstress, plate panels would bend/buckle and be ripped apart. But I assume the spaceship would have caught fire before that due to friction/heat, etc.
Only brain washed space nuts believing NASA science fiction nonsense believe today in re-entries. Americans are very easy to fool. They believe anything shown on TV.

Of course no re-entry has ever been shown on TV. But there are videos of the inside of American space ships while re-entering. Great fun. See them at my web site.

Rayzor asks about who started the fake space travel biz. It was comrade Nikita Chrustchev, CEO of USSR, sending comrade Gagarin into space 1961. Didn't cost anything - just propaganda.

The Americans fell for it, wetted/dirtied their pants and JFK ordered a fake Moon trip to beat the commies. Great fun! I describe it on my web site. Nothing to get upset about. Enjoy it. I am a very friendly, good looking person. Offer me a drink when you pass Freiberg i.Sa.

Since you offer no calculations, I have no way to confirm your hypothesis. NASA's papers at least show any calculation. Besides, as I said earlier, batispheres are sent to much worse pressure ambients. And lets not forget, there had been unmanned reentries, such as the Hayabusa, and many times pieces of orbital crap are found all over the world. For example:
http://www.mk.ru/science/article/2010/02/25/437154-na-mongoliyu-upali-dva-nlo-foto.html, pieces of the second stage of the Delta II rocket. They were tracked by hobbyists, and found on Mongolia. Although the structure is clearly flimsy, and having no heat shielding:



There have been full news stories on this kind of events
http://www.satobs.org/reentry/1979-072B/1979-072B.html

And the Aerospace corporation keeps a register of all fragments recovered
http://www.aerospace.org/cords/reentry-data-2/summary-of-recovered-reentry-debris/

In fact, Soviet helium tanks are infamous for surviving reentry almost every single time. There are lots of "Merkanooka balls" all over the world from helium tanks. How come those do survive?  Even when the (to put midly) poorly aerodynamic MIR was put into reentry in a trajectory engineered to avoid population, maximize the destruction of the station and fall into the Pacific, people were able to get chunks of it.



Clearly, it seems like even flimsy sheeting can survive reentry, even in cases where the intention is to fully destroy it. Why wouldnt a specifically engineered shield be able to survive controlled reentry on a favourable minnimal shock trajectory?

Thanks for showing photos of all this scrap proving that human space ship reentries are impossible.  Many brain washed people always tell me the US space Shuttle with their magig LI-900 ceramic tiles did many re-entries in the past. Why don't you copy/paste that shit here? I describe it at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel2.htm .




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Conker

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2217 on: July 03, 2015, 01:32:52 PM »
My estimate of the re-entry force is that it will compress the space ship like a tin can being stepped on.
Hi Anders, could you explain why the re-entry force will compress the space ship like an tin can?

Thanks

Thanks for asking!

The Apollo 11 capsule, like the Shuttle later, was made of thin plate/weak stiffeners and can be seen at some museum of space scrap at Washington, DC. The structural drawings and associated strenght calculations/design loads are still top secret for some strange reasons.

The internal air pressure for the crew was about 1 bar.  The external pressure on the fast moving capsule, when entering at > 10 000 m/s speed  the Earth atmosphere getting denser with reduced altitude, was probably >10 bar = the capsule structure would collapse into itself like a tin can being stepped on.

Stiffeners would break due to overstress, plate panels would bend/buckle and be ripped apart. But I assume the spaceship would have caught fire before that due to friction/heat, etc.
Only brain washed space nuts believing NASA science fiction nonsense believe today in re-entries. Americans are very easy to fool. They believe anything shown on TV.

Of course no re-entry has ever been shown on TV. But there are videos of the inside of American space ships while re-entering. Great fun. See them at my web site.

Rayzor asks about who started the fake space travel biz. It was comrade Nikita Chrustchev, CEO of USSR, sending comrade Gagarin into space 1961. Didn't cost anything - just propaganda.

The Americans fell for it, wetted/dirtied their pants and JFK ordered a fake Moon trip to beat the commies. Great fun! I describe it on my web site. Nothing to get upset about. Enjoy it. I am a very friendly, good looking person. Offer me a drink when you pass Freiberg i.Sa.

Since you offer no calculations, I have no way to confirm your hypothesis. NASA's papers at least show any calculation. Besides, as I said earlier, batispheres are sent to much worse pressure ambients. And lets not forget, there had been unmanned reentries, such as the Hayabusa, and many times pieces of orbital crap are found all over the world. For example:
http://www.mk.ru/science/article/2010/02/25/437154-na-mongoliyu-upali-dva-nlo-foto.html, pieces of the second stage of the Delta II rocket. They were tracked by hobbyists, and found on Mongolia. Although the structure is clearly flimsy, and having no heat shielding:



There have been full news stories on this kind of events
http://www.satobs.org/reentry/1979-072B/1979-072B.html

And the Aerospace corporation keeps a register of all fragments recovered
http://www.aerospace.org/cords/reentry-data-2/summary-of-recovered-reentry-debris/

In fact, Soviet helium tanks are infamous for surviving reentry almost every single time. There are lots of "Merkanooka balls" all over the world from helium tanks. How come those do survive?  Even when the (to put midly) poorly aerodynamic MIR was put into reentry in a trajectory engineered to avoid population, maximize the destruction of the station and fall into the Pacific, people were able to get chunks of it.



Clearly, it seems like even flimsy sheeting can survive reentry, even in cases where the intention is to fully destroy it. Why wouldnt a specifically engineered shield be able to survive controlled reentry on a favourable minnimal shock trajectory?

Thanks for showing photos of all this scrap proving that human space ship reentries are impossible.  Many brain washed people always tell me the US space Shuttle with their magig LI-900 ceramic tiles did many re-entries in the past. Why don't you copy/paste that shit here? I describe it at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel2.htm .
Those pictures clearly demonstrate that even non-shielded material can survive reentry. Observe how even what appears to be titanium sheets of less than a cm of thickness have not melted away on reentry. Why can't ablation shields do the same? Observe how the melting you would expect, acording to you, is not present anywhere. They are only burned, which is the entire point of an ablation/ceramic regenerative shield, and broken, which in some cases was broken during the mission (and that is why it fell uncontrollably) or in others it broke when it hit the ground (those things didn't have a parachute)
This is not a joke society.
Quote from: OpenedEyes
You shouldn't be allowed to talk on a free discussion forum.

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Arith

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2218 on: July 03, 2015, 06:14:50 PM »
Sweet Muhammed on a skateboard WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL A THING?!
I go away for a few days thinking "Maybe Anders finally had his last 'fact-fit' (as I call them) this will just die off"
I want to say I'm surprised, but I guess I'm really not. Just terribly saddened.

Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #2219 on: July 03, 2015, 06:22:20 PM »
Sweet Muhammed on a skateboard WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL A THING?!
I go away for a few days thinking "Maybe Anders finally had his last 'fact-fit' (as I call them) this will just die off"
I want to say I'm surprised, but I guess I'm really not. Just terribly saddened.

The force is strong in that one
I'm no rocket scientist, but at least I know the Earth is round, Man went to the Moon, and air exists.

“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” Carl Sagan