I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge

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Lemmiwinks

  • 2161
  • President of the Non-Conformist Zetetic Council
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #270 on: February 04, 2015, 10:15:06 AM »
So now you're admitting you dont test things, you just assume.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30059
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #271 on: February 04, 2015, 10:26:43 AM »
So now you're admitting you dont test things, you just assume.
I've tested many things. Because you're not privvy to them is not my concern.

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Lemmiwinks

  • 2161
  • President of the Non-Conformist Zetetic Council
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #272 on: February 04, 2015, 10:28:25 AM »
So now you're admitting you dont test things, you just assume.
I've tested many things. Because you're not privvy to them is not my concern.

I didn't ask to be privy to them, I am just pointing out what a hypocrite you are.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30059
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #273 on: February 04, 2015, 10:31:23 AM »
So now you're admitting you dont test things, you just assume.
I've tested many things. Because you're not privvy to them is not my concern.

I didn't ask to be privy to them, I am just pointing out what a hypocrite you are.
Keep pointing, it's pointless pointing. All it will do is frustrate you. Learn respect and one day you may engage with me in a debate with no smugness.

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Lemmiwinks

  • 2161
  • President of the Non-Conformist Zetetic Council
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #274 on: February 04, 2015, 10:33:54 AM »
So now you're admitting you dont test things, you just assume.
I've tested many things. Because you're not privvy to them is not my concern.

I didn't ask to be privy to them, I am just pointing out what a hypocrite you are.
Keep pointing, it's pointless pointing. All it will do is frustrate you. Learn respect and one day you may engage with me in a debate with no smugness.

No smugness here, really the only person lacking respect and being smug is you.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30059
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #275 on: February 04, 2015, 10:38:40 AM »
So now you're admitting you dont test things, you just assume.
I've tested many things. Because you're not privvy to them is not my concern.

I didn't ask to be privy to them, I am just pointing out what a hypocrite you are.
Keep pointing, it's pointless pointing. All it will do is frustrate you. Learn respect and one day you may engage with me in a debate with no smugness.

No smugness here, really the only person lacking respect and being smug is you.
Yep, because you people never come here and go into ridicule mode constantly. Hiding behind each otehr as one starts, then the next.
You see, then some of you realise how pointless this is but get all pissed off when you get a little bit back, then proclaim that I am the culprit.
You people seriously make me laugh. ;D

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Lemmiwinks

  • 2161
  • President of the Non-Conformist Zetetic Council
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #276 on: February 04, 2015, 10:44:43 AM »
So now you're admitting you dont test things, you just assume.
I've tested many things. Because you're not privvy to them is not my concern.

I didn't ask to be privy to them, I am just pointing out what a hypocrite you are.
Keep pointing, it's pointless pointing. All it will do is frustrate you. Learn respect and one day you may engage with me in a debate with no smugness.

No smugness here, really the only person lacking respect and being smug is you.
Yep, because you people never come here and go into ridicule mode constantly. Hiding behind each otehr as one starts, then the next.
You see, then some of you realise how pointless this is but get all pissed off when you get a little bit back, then proclaim that I am the culprit.
You people seriously make me laugh. ;D

This isn't between you and everyone here, right now me and you are talking. And the only person showing no respect and being smug is you.

Quote
You see, then some of you realise how pointless this is but get all pissed off when you get a little bit back, then proclaim that I am the culprit.

Though I have no idea what you are saying here.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

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mikeman7918

  • 5431
  • Round Earther
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #277 on: February 04, 2015, 11:01:36 AM »
No professional engineer or scientist will waste their time challenging Heiwa's claim. Why?
Because they would have to literally prove it and they can't. They can't because they either have no clue as to how to do it or they know that it is a massive sham and don't want to out themselves.
Incorrect.  No professional engineer or scientist will waste their time challenging Heiwa's claim because they feel that it's already been proven time and time again.  Your or Heiwa's inability to understand and/or refusal to accept that proof is of no consequence to those professional scientists and engineers.
Correct. Anything we say is of no consequence to anybody in any field, because what we are saying goes against much of it, so I'm under no illusions that what I say means anything to anyone in those fields.

My thoughts are simply just that. I put them out for people to see. Most will immediately dismiss them for any number of reasons...but some wills ee them and realise that they do make more sense.
I don't expect you or anyone else like you to ever accept it and nor am I bothered. As I've said before. The only people that I'm interested in, are those that have the ability to see through the mountains of crap we've been dealt.

If you're interested in enlightening people as to the true nature of the Earth etc, then why not help them out a little with some experimental evidence to back up your claims? Otherwise you're just a random guy spouting off. To be taken seriously, you must be serious about your beliefs.
I've yet to see any experimental evidence from the global Earther's, so what's the problem?
If I poured out a million experiments all proving a flat Earth, it would be denied by you people. Why?
Because, like I said before. You people are here to ridicule and deny. You're not here for any other reason.
I'll also state that you will wait for me or trot along. I decide what to put and when to put it.
Nothing you people say will change my thinking. Only people who have a logical mind can change my thinking on stuff and they are very few on here. I've already named them.

Either use your common sense and logic to look into much of what has been put forward by all flat Earth theorists and question your indoctrinated globe model or continue on with your fellow global ridicule merchants and gain answers like this all the time.
You get back what you give and I'm in no giving mood for you people, as and when you decide you want things done.
Learn this and show respect for the people who are willing to actually think for themselves and not just copy theories to post as a truth.

I think I've covered it all. Any other global clown, take notice of this.

The round earthers have done tons of experiments, if you don't believe me then look at the link in my signature, but I have never even seen one proposed experiment from you.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42529
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #278 on: February 04, 2015, 12:36:38 PM »
No professional engineer or scientist will waste their time challenging Heiwa's claim. Why?
Because they would have to literally prove it and they can't. They can't because they either have no clue as to how to do it or they know that it is a massive sham and don't want to out themselves.
Incorrect.  No professional engineer or scientist will waste their time challenging Heiwa's claim because they feel that it's already been proven time and time again.  Your or Heiwa's inability to understand and/or refusal to accept that proof is of no consequence to those professional scientists and engineers.
Correct. Anything we say is of no consequence to anybody in any field, because what we are saying goes against much of it, so I'm under no illusions that what I say means anything to anyone in those fields.
No.  Anything you say is of no consequence to professional engineers and scientists because what you say is wrong, pure and simple.  I keep suggesting that you take a college level physics course so that you can test some of the principles that you seem to think that the rest of the world has wrong. but you seem to prefer to live in your own little word. 
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Orifiel

  • 226
  • Stalwart Pumpkin god supporter
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #279 on: February 04, 2015, 06:44:43 PM »
Sceptimatic, if you showed conclusive, no biased results and videos with no editing of the flat earth being a reality, I'd be right along with you. Show me equations, simple experiments, hypotheses made by your philosophy and experiments that prove them
Je parle Français and yes, I am une fille

Pumpkin god 4 lyf

Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #280 on: February 05, 2015, 03:54:54 AM »
Exactly.

I don't have a massive need to believe Earth is spherical, in fact it makes no difference to my life whether it is spherical or flat, but I believe it is spherical based on the evidence I have seen (which you choose to reject). If evidence came to light which proved otherwise, I would be very interested in it, as would many others I'm sure. You claim that you will be mocked and ridiculed if you presented evidence for your claims due to RE'ers being so convinced of their own ideas that they will never be swayed. That just sounds like a cop-out to me.

If indisputable evidence was provided to show the Earth was flat, I would believe it. I would have no reason not to.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 04:18:30 AM by Mastermind »

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30059
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #281 on: February 05, 2015, 04:42:01 AM »
Exactly.

I don't have a massive need to believe Earth is spherical, in fact it makes no difference to my life whether it is spherical or flat, but I believe it is spherical based on the evidence I have seen (which you choose to reject). If evidence came to light which proved otherwise, I would be very interested in it, as would many others I'm sure. You claim that you will be mocked and ridiculed if you presented evidence for your claims due to RE'ers being so convinced of their own ideas that they will never be swayed. That just sounds like a cop-out to me.

If indisputable evidence was provided to show the Earth was flat, I would believe it. I would have no reason not to.
I'm not here to prove anything to you. I'm here to prove things to myself and in doing so, help others to search their own minds for the truth.
I came here because it gave me food for thought. I didn't just decide the Earth was not a globe, I actually had to drag my own mind into reality of it not being one. I can happily state that I managed to do that. The only issue now is to figure out EXACTLY how the Earth is in its entirety. Something I may never fully know but happy to have got over many hurdles in my way with a globe model.

If you are on this forum for the reason of finding the truth then start looking a bit deeper at what's being said and stop relying on what's been put out that you cannot physically verify in your model.
Merely telling me that your model stands up to scrutiny is cheating yourself...not me.

Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #282 on: February 05, 2015, 04:43:31 AM »
If actual, indisputable evidence was placed before any of the Round Earth crowd then I guarantee that they would be swayed by that evidence, as there is no agenda. We go for round earth because the evidence for round earth is overwhelming and totally indisputable.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #283 on: February 05, 2015, 04:45:09 AM »
Exactly.

I don't have a massive need to believe Earth is spherical, in fact it makes no difference to my life whether it is spherical or flat, but I believe it is spherical based on the evidence I have seen (which you choose to reject). If evidence came to light which proved otherwise, I would be very interested in it, as would many others I'm sure. You claim that you will be mocked and ridiculed if you presented evidence for your claims due to RE'ers being so convinced of their own ideas that they will never be swayed. That just sounds like a cop-out to me.

If indisputable evidence was provided to show the Earth was flat, I would believe it. I would have no reason not to.
I'm not here to prove anything to you. I'm here to prove things to myself and in doing so, help others to search their own minds for the truth.
I came here because it gave me food for thought. I didn't just decide the Earth was not a globe, I actually had to drag my own mind into reality of it not being one. I can happily state that I managed to do that. The only issue now is to figure out EXACTLY how the Earth is in its entirety. Something I may never fully know but happy to have got over many hurdles in my way with a globe model.

If you are on this forum for the reason of finding the truth then start looking a bit deeper at what's being said and stop relying on what's been put out that you cannot physically verify in your model.
Merely telling me that your model stands up to scrutiny is cheating yourself...not me.

You only cheat yourself when you ignore the evidence in front of you. Instead you pick and choose that which matches desired result.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30059
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #284 on: February 05, 2015, 04:54:11 AM »
Exactly.

I don't have a massive need to believe Earth is spherical, in fact it makes no difference to my life whether it is spherical or flat, but I believe it is spherical based on the evidence I have seen (which you choose to reject). If evidence came to light which proved otherwise, I would be very interested in it, as would many others I'm sure. You claim that you will be mocked and ridiculed if you presented evidence for your claims due to RE'ers being so convinced of their own ideas that they will never be swayed. That just sounds like a cop-out to me.

If indisputable evidence was provided to show the Earth was flat, I would believe it. I would have no reason not to.
I'm not here to prove anything to you. I'm here to prove things to myself and in doing so, help others to search their own minds for the truth.
I came here because it gave me food for thought. I didn't just decide the Earth was not a globe, I actually had to drag my own mind into reality of it not being one. I can happily state that I managed to do that. The only issue now is to figure out EXACTLY how the Earth is in its entirety. Something I may never fully know but happy to have got over many hurdles in my way with a globe model.

If you are on this forum for the reason of finding the truth then start looking a bit deeper at what's being said and stop relying on what's been put out that you cannot physically verify in your model.
Merely telling me that your model stands up to scrutiny is cheating yourself...not me.

You only cheat yourself when you ignore the evidence in front of you. Instead you pick and choose that which matches desired result.
You've spent your entire life beliving what you were told. Not once have you questioned it. I spent a lot of my life doing the same. I decided to question it. I am now more than sure that we do not live on a rotaing globe in space whizzing around a hge sun and all the rest of it. I didn't just decide that, I spent time weighing up all the options.
The flat Earth to you is the indoctrinated into your head thought as the lunatic fringe. Because of this, your mind is made up because you are scared to alter that because to do that would place you in that same mould. It scares people away. That's fineif that's the reason but you're only cheating yourself by at least not deeply questioning stuff.

Your argument is not with me, it's with your own senses.

Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #285 on: February 05, 2015, 05:05:56 AM »
Exactly.

I don't have a massive need to believe Earth is spherical, in fact it makes no difference to my life whether it is spherical or flat, but I believe it is spherical based on the evidence I have seen (which you choose to reject). If evidence came to light which proved otherwise, I would be very interested in it, as would many others I'm sure. You claim that you will be mocked and ridiculed if you presented evidence for your claims due to RE'ers being so convinced of their own ideas that they will never be swayed. That just sounds like a cop-out to me.

If indisputable evidence was provided to show the Earth was flat, I would believe it. I would have no reason not to.
I'm not here to prove anything to you. I'm here to prove things to myself and in doing so, help others to search their own minds for the truth.
I came here because it gave me food for thought. I didn't just decide the Earth was not a globe, I actually had to drag my own mind into reality of it not being one. I can happily state that I managed to do that. The only issue now is to figure out EXACTLY how the Earth is in its entirety. Something I may never fully know but happy to have got over many hurdles in my way with a globe model.

If you are on this forum for the reason of finding the truth then start looking a bit deeper at what's being said and stop relying on what's been put out that you cannot physically verify in your model.
Merely telling me that your model stands up to scrutiny is cheating yourself...not me.

You only cheat yourself when you ignore the evidence in front of you. Instead you pick and choose that which matches desired result.
You've spent your entire life beliving what you were told. Not once have you questioned it. I spent a lot of my life doing the same. I decided to question it. I am now more than sure that we do not live on a rotaing globe in space whizzing around a hge sun and all the rest of it. I didn't just decide that, I spent time weighing up all the options.
The flat Earth to you is the indoctrinated into your head thought as the lunatic fringe. Because of this, your mind is made up because you are scared to alter that because to do that would place you in that same mould. It scares people away. That's fineif that's the reason but you're only cheating yourself by at least not deeply questioning stuff.

Your argument is not with me, it's with your own senses.

Ha.

You don't know me very well then do you. I spend most of my life questioning things and experimenting, it's what I enjoy. I'm into Astronomy and to understand how my equipment works I need to know the science behind it. If the earth was flat then a lot of my equipment simply would not work properly.

You clearly also don't know what a science or engineering degree actually consists of, given that a large amount of time is spent in the lab or the workshop actually understanding theory put into real life practice.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30059
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #286 on: February 05, 2015, 05:14:11 AM »
Exactly.

I don't have a massive need to believe Earth is spherical, in fact it makes no difference to my life whether it is spherical or flat, but I believe it is spherical based on the evidence I have seen (which you choose to reject). If evidence came to light which proved otherwise, I would be very interested in it, as would many others I'm sure. You claim that you will be mocked and ridiculed if you presented evidence for your claims due to RE'ers being so convinced of their own ideas that they will never be swayed. That just sounds like a cop-out to me.

If indisputable evidence was provided to show the Earth was flat, I would believe it. I would have no reason not to.
I'm not here to prove anything to you. I'm here to prove things to myself and in doing so, help others to search their own minds for the truth.
I came here because it gave me food for thought. I didn't just decide the Earth was not a globe, I actually had to drag my own mind into reality of it not being one. I can happily state that I managed to do that. The only issue now is to figure out EXACTLY how the Earth is in its entirety. Something I may never fully know but happy to have got over many hurdles in my way with a globe model.

If you are on this forum for the reason of finding the truth then start looking a bit deeper at what's being said and stop relying on what's been put out that you cannot physically verify in your model.
Merely telling me that your model stands up to scrutiny is cheating yourself...not me.

You only cheat yourself when you ignore the evidence in front of you. Instead you pick and choose that which matches desired result.
You've spent your entire life beliving what you were told. Not once have you questioned it. I spent a lot of my life doing the same. I decided to question it. I am now more than sure that we do not live on a rotaing globe in space whizzing around a hge sun and all the rest of it. I didn't just decide that, I spent time weighing up all the options.
The flat Earth to you is the indoctrinated into your head thought as the lunatic fringe. Because of this, your mind is made up because you are scared to alter that because to do that would place you in that same mould. It scares people away. That's fineif that's the reason but you're only cheating yourself by at least not deeply questioning stuff.

Your argument is not with me, it's with your own senses.

Ha.

You don't know me very well then do you. I spend most of my life questioning things and experimenting, it's what I enjoy. I'm into Astronomy and to understand how my equipment works I need to know the science behind it. If the earth was flat then a lot of my equipment simply would not work properly.

You clearly also don't know what a science or engineering degree actually consists of, given that a large amount of time is spent in the lab or the workshop actually understanding theory put into real life practice.
No problem. You crack on. You know it all so why are you here? It seems pointless you being here if you're not after questioning what you've been schooled into.

Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #287 on: February 05, 2015, 05:22:28 AM »
I do question what I 'was schooled with'. And I am here to hopefully educate arrogant idiots who decide that they know better than the overwhelming mass of evidence that is presented to them.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

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ausGeoff

  • 6091
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #288 on: February 05, 2015, 05:24:00 AM »
You clearly also don't know what a science or engineering degree actually consists of, given that a large amount of time is spent in the lab or the workshop actually understanding theory put into real life practice.

You need to know that sceptimatic possesses thirteen academic qualifications, and has authored a dozen books.  He's also a research scientist, self-described genius, and holds numerous patents for everyday items you'll find in your household.

He's also developed the so-called theory of "denpressure" as an explanation as to why the current scientific theories regarding gravitational forces are erroneous.

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markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42529
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #289 on: February 05, 2015, 05:27:25 AM »
Your argument is not with me, it's with your own senses.
That's because your senses have some very severe limitations and can be fooled quite easily, therefore they should not always be trusted.  The trick is to understand those limitations and figure out how to overcome them.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30059
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #290 on: February 05, 2015, 06:04:43 AM »
I do question what I 'was schooled with'. And I am here to hopefully educate arrogant idiots who decide that they know better than the overwhelming mass of evidence that is presented to them.
Well you're never going to succeed with me. Good luck with whoever else you think is like this. You are just naive and arrogant. I wouldn't go so far as to call you an idiot.

Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #291 on: February 05, 2015, 07:01:21 AM »
Exactly.

I don't have a massive need to believe Earth is spherical, in fact it makes no difference to my life whether it is spherical or flat, but I believe it is spherical based on the evidence I have seen (which you choose to reject). If evidence came to light which proved otherwise, I would be very interested in it, as would many others I'm sure. You claim that you will be mocked and ridiculed if you presented evidence for your claims due to RE'ers being so convinced of their own ideas that they will never be swayed. That just sounds like a cop-out to me.

If indisputable evidence was provided to show the Earth was flat, I would believe it. I would have no reason not to.
I'm not here to prove anything to you. I'm here to prove things to myself and in doing so, help others to search their own minds for the truth.
I came here because it gave me food for thought. I didn't just decide the Earth was not a globe, I actually had to drag my own mind into reality of it not being one. I can happily state that I managed to do that. The only issue now is to figure out EXACTLY how the Earth is in its entirety. Something I may never fully know but happy to have got over many hurdles in my way with a globe model.

If you are on this forum for the reason of finding the truth then start looking a bit deeper at what's being said and stop relying on what's been put out that you cannot physically verify in your model.
Merely telling me that your model stands up to scrutiny is cheating yourself...not me.

So you're not here to prove things to others, you're here to prove things to yourself...fine, what experiments are you performing to make these confirmations for yourself? If you're still trying "to figure out exactly how the Earth is in its entirety" then what is it you're doing in order to seek this knowledge? Wouldn't you want to achieve some sort of scientific result that would affirm your beliefs?

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30059
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #292 on: February 05, 2015, 07:09:35 AM »
So you're not here to prove things to others, you're here to prove things to yourself...fine, what experiments are you performing to make these confirmations for yourself? If you're still trying "to figure out exactly how the Earth is in its entirety" then what is it you're doing in order to seek this knowledge? Wouldn't you want to achieve some sort of scientific result that would affirm your beliefs?
My experiments are for me. I've explained quite a few and put them forward. What people take from them is entirely up to them.
If it wakes a few people up, then great. If not, then no problem.

As for putting it out there. I may appear stupid to people and that's fine but I'm not so stupid as to go and put my experiments forward to destroy a globe model only for me to be ridiculed back home or put in a straight jacket and cast off as some doomsday lunatic, which is exactly what would happen.
Don't even tell me any different.

I question things because I like to know that those that are taking the piss are being laughed at by me, not me being laughed at by them for putting this stuff out. It gives me a sense of knowing and freedom  of mind.

I spent too long gawping at the news and the constant spewing of clear as day bullshit to take anything they say seriously anymore.
That's just the way it is. The only way my trust can be gained is for them to show me physical proof of their claims by my own proof's, not by their shenanigans.

There's quite a few things that would nail it for me, either way. I 100% doubt it will ever be shown by those who push this stuff, except in a video that they alter themselves.

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ausGeoff

  • 6091
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #293 on: February 05, 2015, 07:15:38 AM »
So you're not here to prove things to others, you're here to prove things to yourself...fine, what experiments are you performing to make these confirmations for yourself? If you're still trying "to figure out exactly how the Earth is in its entirety" then what is it you're doing in order to seek this knowledge? Wouldn't you want to achieve some sort of scientific result that would affirm your beliefs?

Last year, sceptimatic carried out an expensive experiment with a newly-developed laser, a scientist colleague, and a 2km stretch of perfectly flat ice in an endeavour to prove that the earth was indeed flat.

As far as I recall, he'd finished his research, and had forwarded his conclusions to several world-renowned scientists for their consideration and, presumably, their positive peer review of his data.  Once he had confirmation of his experiment's conclusions—that the earth was actually flat—he was going to make a public announcement that would throw the accepted scientific consensus of the earth's sphericity into complete disarray.

Now, around 12 months later, we should be asking him what the opinions of the scientists who perused his research were—did they agree with his results, disagree, or remain unconvinced either way?  Presuming their peer reviews were positive, why has sceptimatic not yet made public these astounding and world-shattering [sic] research results, or at least let us know on these forums?

So... are we now to logically assume that (a) the entire "experiment" was bogus from day one, or (b) that the results of the experiment proved that the earth was indeed spherical?


Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #294 on: February 05, 2015, 08:05:22 AM »
So you're not here to prove things to others, you're here to prove things to yourself...fine, what experiments are you performing to make these confirmations for yourself? If you're still trying "to figure out exactly how the Earth is in its entirety" then what is it you're doing in order to seek this knowledge? Wouldn't you want to achieve some sort of scientific result that would affirm your beliefs?
My experiments are for me. I've explained quite a few and put them forward. What people take from them is entirely up to them.
If it wakes a few people up, then great. If not, then no problem.

As for putting it out there. I may appear stupid to people and that's fine but I'm not so stupid as to go and put my experiments forward to destroy a globe model only for me to be ridiculed back home or put in a straight jacket and cast off as some doomsday lunatic, which is exactly what would happen.
Don't even tell me any different.

I question things because I like to know that those that are taking the piss are being laughed at by me, not me being laughed at by them for putting this stuff out. It gives me a sense of knowing and freedom  of mind.

I spent too long gawping at the news and the constant spewing of clear as day bullshit to take anything they say seriously anymore.
That's just the way it is. The only way my trust can be gained is for them to show me physical proof of their claims by my own proof's, not by their shenanigans.

There's quite a few things that would nail it for me, either way. I 100% doubt it will ever be shown by those who push this stuff, except in a video that they alter themselves.

Let's look at two hypothetical situations;

Scenario 1

For whatever reason, you've been given a public platform to talk about your Flat Earth Theory - let's call it 'an audience with Scepti' and it's broadcast live on TV across the world. You take centre stage and proclaim...

"The Earth is flat because it looks flat, pictures from space are all faked because space travel is a lie created by a NASA conspiracy, gravity doesn't exist and we are all surrounded by a giant ice wall guarded by those complicit with the conspiracy. The Earth does not rotate around the sun, which by the way is only a few thousand miles up in the sky. I've come to these conclusions because my senses tell me so, just think about it" (apologies for generalising some of your theories).

You would quite rightly be branded a lunatic, nobody would take you seriously and you'd become a laughing stock. No doubt your speech would go viral on the internet and you'd achieve some fame for a few months, before inevitably fading from public consciousness and becoming a footnote somewhere on Wikipedia, a pub-quiz question.

Scenario 2

For whatever reason, you've been given a public platform to talk about your Flat Earth Theory - let's call it 'an audience with Scepti' and it's broadcast live on TV across the world. You take centre stage and state all of the things you asserted in the first scenario, only this time you follow it with actual proof..."here is the science behind my claims, as proven by various and repeated experiments" and "...here is the maths supporting my experimentation and here is how it holds up under scrutiny". You show, through rigorous research and experimentation, that the Earth is flat, and in the process you disprove a round Earth, showing how we have all been deceived for so long.

If your theory is complete and airtight, then the scientific community would be unable to disprove it and you would completely change what is considered fact. You would be hailed as a genius, no doubt win the Nobel Prize and would received untold riches. You would be studied for hundreds/thousands of years and remembered as a visionary of great historical significance. You would be mentioned in the same breath as Newton and Einstein.

 
Right now you're just repeating scenario 1 over and over, but on a far smaller scale (this forum). Care to strive towards scenario 2 at any point? Again, I reiterate, I'm a truth seeker, and if you're interested in helping people see the truth, then help me out a little. Merely saying 'think deeper and question what you know' just isn't enough I'm afraid.   
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 08:27:59 AM by Mastermind »

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mikeman7918

  • 5431
  • Round Earther
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #295 on: February 05, 2015, 08:14:45 AM »
So you're not here to prove things to others, you're here to prove things to yourself...fine, what experiments are you performing to make these confirmations for yourself? If you're still trying "to figure out exactly how the Earth is in its entirety" then what is it you're doing in order to seek this knowledge? Wouldn't you want to achieve some sort of scientific result that would affirm your beliefs?
My experiments are for me. I've explained quite a few and put them forward. What people take from them is entirely up to them.
If it wakes a few people up, then great. If not, then no problem.

As for putting it out there. I may appear stupid to people and that's fine but I'm not so stupid as to go and put my experiments forward to destroy a globe model only for me to be ridiculed back home or put in a straight jacket and cast off as some doomsday lunatic, which is exactly what would happen.
Don't even tell me any different.

I question things because I like to know that those that are taking the piss are being laughed at by me, not me being laughed at by them for putting this stuff out. It gives me a sense of knowing and freedom  of mind.

I spent too long gawping at the news and the constant spewing of clear as day bullshit to take anything they say seriously anymore.
That's just the way it is. The only way my trust can be gained is for them to show me physical proof of their claims by my own proof's, not by their shenanigans.

There's quite a few things that would nail it for me, either way. I 100% doubt it will ever be shown by those who push this stuff, except in a video that they alter themselves.

So you have evidence but you don't feel like sharing it?  Isn't that what you accuse NASA and laboratories of doing?  If someone were to believs in your model based off if what you say on the forums then they would simply be doing it out of blind faith because you haven't given any evidence to support your claims.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #296 on: February 05, 2015, 08:22:04 AM »
I question things because I like to know that those that are taking the piss are being laughed at by me, not me being laughed at by them

That sounds like the very definition of paranoia

The only way my trust can be gained is for them to show me physical proof of their claims by my own proof's, not by their shenanigans.

Why are your 'proofs' (whatever they may be) so superior to those of others?

Last year, sceptimatic carried out an expensive experiment with a newly-developed laser, a scientist colleague, and a 2km stretch of perfectly flat ice in an endeavour to prove that the earth was indeed flat.

As far as I recall, he'd finished his research, and had forwarded his conclusions to several world-renowned scientists for their consideration and, presumably, their positive peer review of his data.  Once he had confirmation of his experiment's conclusions—that the earth was actually flat—he was going to make a public announcement that would throw the accepted scientific consensus of the earth's sphericity into complete disarray.

Now, around 12 months later, we should be asking him what the opinions of the scientists who perused his research were—did they agree with his results, disagree, or remain unconvinced either way?  Presuming their peer reviews were positive, why has sceptimatic not yet made public these astounding and world-shattering [sic] research results, or at least let us know on these forums?

So... are we now to logically assume that (a) the entire "experiment" was bogus from day one, or (b) that the results of the experiment proved that the earth was indeed spherical?

Excellent. Being new here, I didn't know this. Scepti - what is the current status?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 08:23:46 AM by Mastermind »

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30059
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #297 on: February 05, 2015, 08:59:27 AM »
Let's look at two hypothetical situations;

Scenario 1

For whatever reason, you've been given a public platform to talk about your Flat Earth Theory - let's call it 'an audience with Scepti' and it's broadcast live on TV across the world. You take centre stage and proclaim...

"The Earth is a flat because it looks flat, pictures from space are all faked because space travel is a lie created by a NASA conspiracy, gravity doesn't exist and we are all surrounded by a giant ice wall guarded by those complicit with the conspiracy. The Earth does not rotate around the sun, which by the way is only a few thousand miles up in the sky. I've come to these conclusions because my senses tell me so, just think about it" (apologies for generalising some of your theories).

You would quite rightly be branded a lunatic, nobody would take you seriously and you'd become a laughing stock. No doubt your speech would go viral on the internet and you'd achieve some fame for a few months, before inevitably fading from public consciousness and becoming a footnote somewhere on Wikipedia, a pub-quiz question.
In this scenario I would not dive right in and mention anything as a given. If I was allowed the air time, I would merely state my case as a "what if" scenario.

I'm well aware that me proclaming anything against what people have been schooled into all their lives, gives them the mass upper hand over me and like you say, I will be thought of as a lunatic from the very start, which would nullify anything I had to say from that point on.
If I walked into a pub doing the same thing, I would be classed as "that nutter" wh thinks the Earth is flat.

However, if I put out a "what if" scenario  and made a point that the whole process is a "what if" then at best I could expect half of that audience to ponder my "what if's"..knowing that I am merely putting out an alternative, just like people would do in religious terms about, what if god exists but the devil doesn't, or what if the devil exists but god doesn't, or what of none of those exist and we are on our own, or what if  our mother's and father's are not our real parents.

You know, stuff like that. You see, at best it creates a debate but the worst scenario is also creates heated debates and angry confrontation that leads to the whole point lost. It's natural human reaction but not because of open mindedness, it's the opposite.

You see, it's about the thoughts or belief's of any particular person that creates a debate or a fragmented debate or downright pandemonium.
You see, assuming I'm given air time, I'm immediately under the guidance of the host and that host is under the guidance of the scriptwriter and producer, etc.
It's common knowledge that the second I open my mouth about a "what if" when mentioning a flat Earth and the many things about it - I am immediately in front of an audience of eye rollers and even more so if I said, "what if gravity was atmospheric pressure."
Someone in the audience can say, ell ok, gravity has been measured and it's 9.8m/s/s, the workings are fine for it, we know it's real, show me your equations.
I can say "oh I don't have any because I class it as variable so it's a case of measurement depending on the mass of an object at whatever height." etc.

Cue the laughing.
I could say " I don't know the equation for it, I'm just saying what if. I mean, is it possible?"
The debate can go on but the best I could hope for  at the end by doing this is, " well he was just putting scenarios to us, it's not like he was proclaiming it without backing it up."
The worst is being told to eff off or booed.
Why?
Because as much as you want to shout out that there's back up, that supposed back up is not physically proven except to drop something at a small height and measure that alone to come to a conclusion that in a near vacuum it would be this or that and it's gravity, even though we don't know what that force is...it can be measured.

You see, most people would boo or roll their eyes because they know what it all is. They've been schooled for long enough. So if I then went for it and said, "well what if the world is actually flat and not a globe."
I'd be laughed out of the place, including the ridiculing quips by the host, because everyone knows it's a globe, they've seen pictures and the sun rises and sets and look at space and all the rest of it.




Scenario 2

For whatever reason, you've been given a public platform to talk about your Flat Earth Theory - let's call it 'an audience with Scepti' and it's broadcast live on TV across the world. You take centre stage and state all of the things you asserted in the first scenario, only this time you follow it with actual proof..."here is the science behind my claims, as proven by various and repeated experiments" and "...here is the maths supporting my experimentation and here is how it holds up under scrutiny". You show, through rigorous research and experimentation, that the Earth is flat, and in the process you disprove a round Earth, showing how we have all been deceived for so long.
This scenario wouldn't happen but if it did and I provided proof, I would be intentionally ridiculed. Not by the audience but by the very people that gave me the platform because even if they genuinely wanted to give me that platform, I'm fairly certain that they would be told to shut it down and ridicule me and my name would be forever known as the loony with his natshit crazy ideas who is a danger to society...or whatever.
I truly believe this would be the case.
Look at the amount of people that have tried to open people's eyes. They are cast off as looney's.
Look, let's be honest and think about this.
Everything about space is geared for a globe and so is space travel and all the rest of the add on's. Do you seriously think air time would be given to anyone who had concrete proof that it was a lie?
They would allow anyone on who had no direct physical proof because there's only going to be one winner and very few people are going to take what's said, onboard due to fear of ridicule by their peers, even if they did see ruth or potential truth in it.
It's human nature to follow a trend of any kind. The masses win all the time, which means they will follow what they're told to follow.


If your theory is complete and airtight, then the scientific community would be unable to disprove it and you would completely change what is considered fact. You would be hailed as a genius, no doubt win the Nobel Prize and would received untold riches. You would be studied for hundreds/thousands of years and remembered as a visionary of great historical significance. You would be mentioned in the same breath as Newton and Einstein.
I would win a sniper bullet to the forehead or be found hanging due to depression or something. I certainly wouldn't be recieving any star prize unless it was a ninja star jammed into me.
 
Right now you're just repeating scenario 1 over and over, but on a far smaller scale (this forum). Care to strive towards scenario 2 at any point? Again, I reiterate, I'm a truth seeker, and if you're interested in helping people see the truth, then help me out a little. Merely saying 'think deeper and question what you know' just isn't enough I'm afraid.
You know that I cannot physically prove what I'm saying. You believe you can physically prove what you are saying because you have mainstream science books to back you up and also the wider public to agree.
That's fine. I understand your stance.

If you appear to want to find the truth, I can only offer tid bits along with other's. I can't make you question. I can't make you decide to look at a different picture.
I could only do that with direct proof. Nobody is going to allow anyone to provide that direct proof because all of the proof's are behind a security blanket.

You have to make a choice for yourself to question just one thing. Pick the weakest argument about your globe. Question it and see where you go.
You're not argung against me and I'm not arguing against you or anyone else on here. I'm simply probing and coming up with reasons as to why the Earth is not a globe. Nobody has to take it onboard, just take it as a thought process. Use me as a thinking process. A could it be or maybe there is something in this....or simply dismiss it all and keep to the model you were comfortably brought up with, to present day.

All I say is, if you're here then you must have some kind of doubt about something's...if so, then have a go at questioning it, because simply sticking to your trusted model will gain you no ground, because it's all been heard before and is being argued against for a reason, whether that reason is legitimate to you or not.

I don't spend my time typing all this stuff just for a laugh and I'm not insane. All I'm doing is picking away. There's lot's I can learn off people on here, unfortunately I won't be learing anything new from people who push a globe model, unless they talk about something different that gives me more food for thought.


For me and this is the truth. There's so much magic involved in a globe model that it renders it not only wrong, but absolutely ludicrous. That's my personal opinion, don't take it as a personal dig at you. You are like anyone else who came here. You came with a globe in mind. I did once...not anymore and you know how strong my mind is, so if I can be changed to think alternatively or question stuff, then anyone can...but...it's entirely up to you.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30059
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #298 on: February 05, 2015, 09:01:48 AM »
So you're not here to prove things to others, you're here to prove things to yourself...fine, what experiments are you performing to make these confirmations for yourself? If you're still trying "to figure out exactly how the Earth is in its entirety" then what is it you're doing in order to seek this knowledge? Wouldn't you want to achieve some sort of scientific result that would affirm your beliefs?
My experiments are for me. I've explained quite a few and put them forward. What people take from them is entirely up to them.
If it wakes a few people up, then great. If not, then no problem.

As for putting it out there. I may appear stupid to people and that's fine but I'm not so stupid as to go and put my experiments forward to destroy a globe model only for me to be ridiculed back home or put in a straight jacket and cast off as some doomsday lunatic, which is exactly what would happen.
Don't even tell me any different.

I question things because I like to know that those that are taking the piss are being laughed at by me, not me being laughed at by them for putting this stuff out. It gives me a sense of knowing and freedom  of mind.

I spent too long gawping at the news and the constant spewing of clear as day bullshit to take anything they say seriously anymore.
That's just the way it is. The only way my trust can be gained is for them to show me physical proof of their claims by my own proof's, not by their shenanigans.

There's quite a few things that would nail it for me, either way. I 100% doubt it will ever be shown by those who push this stuff, except in a video that they alter themselves.

So you have evidence but you don't feel like sharing it?  Isn't that what you accuse NASA and laboratories of doing?  If someone were to believs in your model based off if what you say on the forums then they would simply be doing it out of blind faith because you haven't given any evidence to support your claims.
I'm not asking anyone to do anything they don't want to do. All I'm doing is putting my stuff out and giving people the chance to actually open their minds to possibilities.
Think for themselves instead of doing it under peer pressure.

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Misero

  • 1261
  • Of course it's flat. It looks that way up close.
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #299 on: February 05, 2015, 09:03:37 AM »
So you're not here to prove things to others, you're here to prove things to yourself...fine, what experiments are you performing to make these confirmations for yourself? If you're still trying "to figure out exactly how the Earth is in its entirety" then what is it you're doing in order to seek this knowledge? Wouldn't you want to achieve some sort of scientific result that would affirm your beliefs?
My experiments are for me. I've explained quite a few and put them forward. What people take from them is entirely up to them.
If it wakes a few people up, then great. If not, then no problem.

As for putting it out there. I may appear stupid to people and that's fine but I'm not so stupid as to go and put my experiments forward to destroy a globe model only for me to be ridiculed back home or put in a straight jacket and cast off as some doomsday lunatic, which is exactly what would happen.
Don't even tell me any different.

I question things because I like to know that those that are taking the piss are being laughed at by me, not me being laughed at by them for putting this stuff out. It gives me a sense of knowing and freedom  of mind.

I spent too long gawping at the news and the constant spewing of clear as day bullshit to take anything they say seriously anymore.
That's just the way it is. The only way my trust can be gained is for them to show me physical proof of their claims by my own proof's, not by their shenanigans.

There's quite a few things that would nail it for me, either way. I 100% doubt it will ever be shown by those who push this stuff, except in a video that they alter themselves.

So you have evidence but you don't feel like sharing it?  Isn't that what you accuse NASA and laboratories of doing?  If someone were to believs in your model based off if what you say on the forums then they would simply be doing it out of blind faith because you haven't given any evidence to support your claims.
I'm not asking anyone to do anything they don't want to do. All I'm doing is putting my stuff out and giving people the chance to actually open their minds to possibilities.
Think for themselves instead of doing it under peer pressure.
So, essentially, you're weaseling out of giving evidence? Good job.
I am the worst moderator ever.

Sometimes I wonder: "Why am  I on this site?"
Then I look at threads about clouds not existing and I go back to posting and lurking. Lurk moar.