I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge

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Yes

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11550 on: January 24, 2020, 08:26:37 AM »
And then there is the problem of what trajectory to use! Straight or banana shaped around the Sun.
I would like to know about the banana orbit.
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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11551 on: January 24, 2020, 08:30:08 AM »
And then there is the problem of what trajectory to use! Straight or banana shaped around the Sun.
I would like to know about the banana orbit.

I would like to see the straight orbit.
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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11552 on: January 24, 2020, 09:57:07 AM »
And then there is the problem of what trajectory to use! Straight or banana shaped around the Sun.
I would like to know about the banana orbit.
According 'space travel experts' to fly from Earth to Mars, both orbiting the Sun, you cannot go straight, e.g. take off from Earth straight away from Earth and Sun straight to Mars, where Mars will be on arrival, which could take a month. No, you have do a complicated, variable speeds and directions, banana shaped 3D trajectory around the Sun taking say nine months. Neither alternative is possible. A spacecraft orbiting Earth cannot ever change orbit to orbit Mars and land. It is basic astronautics taught at MIT at $1M/PhD.
Of course there are additional problems of fuel and soft landing on arrival and to return BUT Hollywood will assist.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 10:34:04 AM by Heiwa »

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Yes

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11553 on: January 24, 2020, 11:20:36 AM »
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
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frenat

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11554 on: January 24, 2020, 01:55:37 PM »

According 'space travel experts' to fly from Earth to Mars, both orbiting the Sun, you cannot go straight, e.g. take off from Earth straight away from Earth and Sun straight to Mars, where Mars will be on arrival, which could take a month. No, you have do a complicated, variable speeds and directions, banana shaped 3D trajectory around the Sun taking say nine months. Neither alternative is possible. A spacecraft orbiting Earth cannot ever change orbit to orbit Mars and land. It is basic astronautics taught at MIT at $1M/PhD.
Of course there are additional problems of fuel and soft landing on arrival and to return BUT Hollywood will assist.

that was a lot of words to say "I don't understand it so it must not work".


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markjo

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11555 on: January 24, 2020, 02:10:03 PM »
It is basic astronautics taught at MIT at $1M/PhD.
When did you earn your astronautics degree from MIT (or anywhere else)?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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rabinoz

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11556 on: January 24, 2020, 03:05:03 PM »
According 'space travel experts' to fly from Earth to Mars, both orbiting the Sun, you cannot go straight, e.g. take off from Earth straight away from Earth and Sun straight to Mars, where Mars will be on arrival, which could take a month.
Given sufficient fuel spacecraft could use a minimal time trajectory but current spacecraft simply do not have the fuel to do that.

Quote from: Heiwa
No, you have do a complicated, variable speeds and directions, banana shaped 3D trajectory around the Sun taking say nine months.
Total crap! As I showed before a spacecraft going to Mars can simply follow close to a
Quote from: The Planetary Society
Hohmann transfer orbit diagram

Hohmann transfer orbit diagram
A Hohmann transfer orbit can take a spacecraft from Earth to Mars. The orbit is an elliptical one, where the periapsis is at Earth's distance from the Sun and the apoapsis is at Mars' distance from the Sun. The transfer orbit has to be timed so that when the spacecraft departs Earth, it will arrive at its orbit apoapsis when Mars is at the same position in its orbit. Earth and Mars align properly for a Hohmann transfer once every 26 months.

You could read Basics of Space Flight: Trajectories,
What Is the Hohmann Transfer? Calculating the Hohmann Transfer for Orbits or
Hohmann Transfers

But in many cases spacecraft on longer missions can use the slingshot or gravity assist manoeuvre as described in:
Quote from: David Shortt
The Planetary Society: Gravity assist
With the recent announcement by NASA that the 36 year-old spacecraft Voyager 1 has officially entered interstellar space at a distance from the Sun about four times further than Neptune's orbit, and with Voyager 2 not far behind, it seems worthwhile to explore how humans managed to fling objects so far into space.

Interplanetary spacecraft often use a maneuver called a gravity assist in order to reach their targets. Voyager 2 famously used gravity assists to visit Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune in the late 1970s and 1980s. Cassini used two assists at Venus and one each at Earth and Jupiter in order to reach Saturn. New Horizons will arrive at Pluto in 2015 thanks to an assist at Jupiter. And Messenger used assists at Earth, Venus and three times at Mercury itself not to speed up, but to slow down enough to finally be captured by Mercury.

Mariner-Jupiter-Saturn 1977 Spacecraft Artwork, 1975
NASA and JPL initially referred to what became the Voyagers as the Mariner-Jupiter-Saturn 1977 Project. The two Voyagers were advanced versions of the Mariner-class spacecraft that JPL had flown successfully to Venus, Mars, and Mercury. Shown here is a 1975 JPL artist's rendering of Voyager after encountering Jupiter and, after a gravity assist, approaching Saturn.

Mission planners use gravity assists because they allow the objective to be accomplished with much less fuel (and hence with a much smaller, cheaper rocket) than would otherwise be required. Lifting extra fuel into orbit, just so it can be used later, is exponentially expensive. Furthermore, the extra speed gained by gravity assists dramatically reduces the duration of a mission to the outer planets.

Gravity assists seem a bit mysterious, like one is getting something for nothing. This feeling can persist even if you know some physics. Since energy is conserved, you reason, how can a spacecraft obtain a net velocity boost by passing by a planet? Energy conservation suggests the spacecraft should speed up while approaching the planet, but then lose the same speed while departing. Recently I was talking with a colleague, an excellent plasma physicist who knew the phrase "gravity assist" but thought it must be marketing hyperbole because he didn't believe it could actually work. The mystery begs to be explained.

Quote from: Heiwa
Neither alternative is possible. A spacecraft orbiting Earth cannot ever change orbit to orbit Mars and land. It is basic astronautics taught at MIT at $1M/PhD.
That is an outright lie! No such thing is in "basic astronautics taught at MIT at $1M/PhD".
Stop your stupid antics! You seem so ignorant that I wonder how you work out the best trajectory to and from your favourite wine-bar.

Quote from: Heiwa
Of course, there are additional problems of fuel and soft landing on arrival and to return.
Sure, there are problems and so far no spacecraft has made a soft landing on Mars and returned but WHY would it be impossible?

Bye bye. Don't get lost on your minimal energy trajectory to and from your local booze shop.


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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11557 on: January 24, 2020, 04:35:25 PM »

Quote from: Heiwa
Neither alternative is possible. A spacecraft orbiting Earth cannot ever change orbit to orbit Mars and land. It is basic astronautics taught at MIT at $1M/PhD.
That is an outright lie! No such thing is in "basic astronautics taught at MIT at $1M/PhD".
Stop your stupid antics! You seem so ignorant that I wonder how you work out the best trajectory to and from your favourite wine-bar.

Quote from: Heiwa
Of course, there are additional problems of fuel and soft landing on arrival and to return.
Sure, there are problems and so far no spacecraft has made a soft landing on Mars and returned but WHY would it be impossible?

Bye bye. Don't get lost on your minimal energy trajectory to and from your local booze shop.

No, it is not a lie. It is the reason why nobody can win my Challenge (topic).

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rabinoz

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11558 on: January 24, 2020, 04:48:10 PM »

Quote from: Heiwa
Neither alternative is possible. A spacecraft orbiting Earth cannot ever change orbit to orbit Mars and land. It is basic astronautics taught at MIT at $1M/PhD.
That is an outright lie! No such thing is in "basic astronautics taught at MIT at $1M/PhD".
Stop your stupid antics! You seem so ignorant that I wonder how you work out the best trajectory to and from your favourite wine-bar.

Quote from: Heiwa
Of course, there are additional problems of fuel and soft landing on arrival and to return.
Sure, there are problems and so far no spacecraft has made a soft landing on Mars and returned but WHY would it be impossible?

Bye bye. Don't get lost on your minimal energy trajectory to and from your local booze shop.

No, it is not a lie.
If "it is not a lie" you prove your claim that
Quote from: Heiwa
Neither alternative is possible. A spacecraft orbiting Earth cannot ever change orbit to orbit Mars and land.
If you can't do that I stand by what I said!

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11559 on: January 24, 2020, 10:12:23 PM »

If "it is not a lie" you prove your claim that
Quote from: Heiwa
Neither alternative is possible. A spacecraft orbiting Earth cannot ever change orbit to orbit Mars and land.
If you can't do that I stand by what I said!
OK. I assume we all agree that any spacecraft/rocket sent from Earth orbits Earth and that Earth gravity controls shape of the orbit. So going to Mars starting from Earth you are always orbiting Earth until you one way or other arrive at Mars, when Mars gravity takes over and pulls you down at increased speed ... so you crash. Of course there are people saying that you can start your rocket engine and make a soft landing with it, when dropping down due to gravity. A certain Mr. Lone Skum of US company SpaceFuc says he can do it with rockets being used to send satellites into orbits! Only the satellites orbit Earth, while the rockets drop down again and make a soft landing but ... it is just Fake News and fantasies. I explain more at my website.

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rabinoz

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11560 on: January 24, 2020, 11:02:45 PM »

If "it is not a lie" you prove your claim that
Quote from: Heiwa
Neither alternative is possible. A spacecraft orbiting Earth cannot ever change orbit to orbit Mars and land.
If you can't do that I stand by what I said!
OK. I assume we all agree that any spacecraft/rocket sent from Earth orbits Earth and that Earth gravity controls shape of the orbit.
Sorry, we disagree almost straight away. Once the spacecraft is no more than one Hill radius from Earth, about 1.5 million km, it is essentially in orbit around the Sun and the Earth's gravitation has very little control.
The Hill radius can be calculated from where rH is the Hill radius, a is the average Earth-Sun distance, M is the mass of the Sun and m is the mass of the Earth.
From here until it gets inside the Hill radius of Mars the spacecraft can follow a Hohmann transfer orbit about the Sun.

Quote from: Heiwa
So going to Mars starting from Earth you are always orbiting Earth until you one way or other arrive at Mars,
No, you are not!
Once outside the Hill radius of the Earth the Earth's gravitation has very little control.
For almost all the distance the spacecraft is in a Solar orbit - what's so difficult to understand about that?
Then the spacecraft can enter an orbit about Mars or head directly to a landing. Both require rocket retro-thrusts to slow it down.

Quote from: Heiwa
<< I'll ignore that rest of this crap! >>
Try again!

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Shifter

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11561 on: January 24, 2020, 11:39:11 PM »
Rab do you know how stupid you look taking the time to 'quote' someone, just to replace it with your own crap like 'ignore'

And then reply to it with a non answer?

Get a grip. If you have nothing to say, don't say anything. If you really want to ignore a post, then leave it be.

Hes not wrong about essentially orbiting the earth until Mars's gravity takes over. Earth is the closest thing with a decent mass. When he said 'arrive at Mars' I don't believe it was meant having the planet close enough to prepare landing already

That's just your combative attitude twisting words for an excuse to argue. It's tiresone

If you have to go to this length to say a word in, clearly you lack confidence in the theories you try and spew. Because otherwise you would be comfortable and exercise professional courtesy while debating on the merits of your theories or facts

If you want to be taken seriously and not a rambling dementia addled fool then stop with your quote changing and silly non answers. Okay? :)

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rabinoz

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11562 on: January 25, 2020, 01:25:57 AM »
Rab do you know how stupid you look taking the time to 'quote' someone, just to replace it with your own crap like 'ignore'
Shifter, do you know how stupid you look taking the time to reply on a topic you know nothing about.

Quote from: Shifter
Hes not wrong about essentially orbiting the earth until Mars's gravity takes over. Earth is the closest thing with a decent mass. When he said 'arrive at Mars' I don't believe it was meant having the planet close enough to prepare landing already
Sorry, but Heiwa was quite wrong "about essentially orbiting the earth until Mars's gravity takes over". I guess you didn't understand one word about the Hill radius.
The "Earth might be the closest thing with a decent mass" but the Sun has about 330,000 times the Earth's mass.
The Hill radius is the distance from the Earth where the Sun's gravitation starts to dominate.
During most of the time from Earth to Mars the spacecraft is in an elliptical Solar orbit.

Quote from: Shifter
That's just your combative attitude twisting words for an excuse to argue.
It has nothing to do with any "combative attitude twisting words for an excuse to argue".
Heiwa was simply wrong as you are but your refusal to admit it is getting tiresome.

Learn a bit by reading this:
Quote from: Astrophysics
about Hill radius, radius of gravitational influence of a body
An astronomical body's Hill radius is the radius of the sphere (Hill sphere) within which smaller bodies would tend to orbit the body. Outside the radius, the body would be drawn to orbit around the next larger body which the initial hosting body is orbiting. For example, the Moon is within Earth's Hill radius, and if it weren't, it would not retain a stable orbit around Earth but would eventually orbit around the Sun. If outside the Hill radius, it can still take multiple orbits before the smaller body breaks away.
Or at Hill sphere.

Now either post something meaningful about a spacecraft's trajectory from an Earth orbit to Mars or butt out.

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11563 on: January 25, 2020, 03:23:54 AM »

If "it is not a lie" you prove your claim that
Quote from: Heiwa
Neither alternative is possible. A spacecraft orbiting Earth cannot ever change orbit to orbit Mars and land.
If you can't do that I stand by what I said!
OK. I assume we all agree that any spacecraft/rocket sent from Earth orbits Earth and that Earth gravity controls shape of the orbit.
Sorry, we disagree almost straight away. Once the spacecraft is no more than one Hill radius from Earth, about 1.5 million km, it is essentially in orbit around the Sun and the Earth's gravitation has very little control.
The Hill radius can be calculated from where rH is the Hill radius, a is the average Earth-Sun distance, M is the mass of the Sun and m is the mass of the Earth.
From here until it gets inside the Hill radius of Mars the spacecraft can follow a Hohmann transfer orbit about the Sun.

Quote from: Heiwa
So going to Mars starting from Earth you are always orbiting Earth until you one way or other arrive at Mars,
No, you are not!
Once outside the Hill radius of the Earth the Earth's gravitation has very little control.
For almost all the distance the spacecraft is in a Solar orbit - what's so difficult to understand about that?
Then the spacecraft can enter an orbit about Mars or head directly to a landing. Both require rocket retro-thrusts to slow it down.

Quote from: Heiwa
<< I'll ignore that rest of this crap! >>
Try again!
Well, any human built spacecraft/rocket leaving Earth always orbits Earth. It cannot possibly orbit the Sun! Only the planets orbit the Sun. A spacecraft leaving Earth cannot start orbiting the Sun.
The Hill radius? What is it? Listen!
An astronomical body's Hill radius is the radius of the sphere (Hill sphere) within which smaller bodies would tend to orbit the body. Outside the radius, the body would be drawn to orbit around the next larger body which the initial hosting body is orbiting. For example, the Moon is within Earth's Hill radius, and if it weren't, it would not retain a stable orbit around Earth but would eventually orbit around the Sun. If outside the Hill radius, it can still take multiple orbits before the smaller body breaks away.
??
OK, believing this rubbish any spacecraft/rocket leaving Earth orbit suddenly starts orbiting the Sun instead, because it is bigger than Earth.
OK. But how does my spacecraft then flies on to planet Mars? How to get out of Sun orbit?
A correct answer is worth €1M - see post #1.
Thanks, twerp, for keeping this thread going.

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rabinoz

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11564 on: January 25, 2020, 04:15:21 AM »

If "it is not a lie" you prove your claim that
Quote from: Heiwa
Neither alternative is possible. A spacecraft orbiting Earth cannot ever change orbit to orbit Mars and land.
If you can't do that I stand by what I said!
OK. I assume we all agree that any spacecraft/rocket sent from Earth orbits Earth and that Earth gravity controls shape of the orbit.
Sorry, we disagree almost straight away. Once the spacecraft is no more than one Hill radius from Earth, about 1.5 million km, it is essentially in orbit around the Sun and the Earth's gravitation has very little control.
The Hill radius can be calculated from where rH is the Hill radius, a is the average Earth-Sun distance, M is the mass of the Sun and m is the mass of the Earth.
From here until it gets inside the Hill radius of Mars the spacecraft can follow a Hohmann transfer orbit about the Sun.

Quote from: Heiwa
So going to Mars starting from Earth you are always orbiting Earth until you one way or other arrive at Mars,
No, you are not!
Once outside the Hill radius of the Earth the Earth's gravitation has very little control.
For almost all the distance the spacecraft is in a Solar orbit - what's so difficult to understand about that?
Then the spacecraft can enter an orbit about Mars or head directly to a landing. Both require rocket retro-thrusts to slow it down.

Quote from: Heiwa
<< I'll ignore that rest of this crap! >>
Try again!
Well, any human built spacecraft/rocket leaving Earth always orbits Earth. It cannot possibly orbit the Sun! Only the planets orbit the Sun. A spacecraft leaving Earth cannot start orbiting the Sun.
If said spacecraft is well within the Hill radius of Earth it will continue orbiting Earth but if it's placed in an orbit outside the Hill radius it would eventually end up in a Solar orbit.
A spacecraft in a LEO at 200 km above the surface can be put into a Hohmann transfer orbit to 2 million km orbit with a DeltaV of just over 3200 m/s - no problem!

Quote from: Heiwa
The Hill radius? What is it? Listen!
An astronomical body's Hill radius is the radius of the sphere (Hill sphere) within which smaller bodies would tend to orbit the body. Outside the radius, the body would be drawn to orbit around the next larger body which the initial hosting body is orbiting. For example, the Moon is within Earth's Hill radius, and if it weren't, it would not retain a stable orbit around Earth but would eventually orbit around the Sun. If outside the Hill radius, it can still take multiple orbits before the smaller body breaks away.
Sure, if left to itself "If outside the Hill radius, it can still take multiple orbits before the smaller body breaks away".
But once at that radius you have to apply the extra DeltaV to put that spacecraft into its Hohmann transfer orbit to Mars.
Why is that any problem?

Quote from: Heiwa
OK, believing this rubbish any spacecraft/rocket leaving Earth orbit suddenly starts orbiting the Sun instead, because it is bigger than Earth.
Nobody, except YOU, ever said that it "suddenly starts orbiting the Sun instead"!

Quote from: Heiwa
OK. But how does my spacecraft then flies on to planet Mars? How to get out of Sun orbit?
Do I have to explain every little obvious step to YOU?
Once at that radius you have to apply the extra DeltaV to put that spacecraft into its Hohmann transfer orbit to Mars.
But, of course, there's also no big reason why enough DeltaV could not be applied direct from LEO though sometimes these extra steps are used to correct for small errors in velocity.

Quote from: Heiwa
<< Insults ignored >>

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Shifter

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11565 on: January 25, 2020, 06:33:04 AM »
Rab, Puck up a rock and throw it. That rock orbits the Earth, not the Sun.

The Earth has a sphere of influence. The sun does too obviously but do you know how hard it is to send anything near the Sun? We are always moving sideways in relation to the Sun. Getting out of the solar system is easy.


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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11566 on: January 25, 2020, 09:18:07 AM »
Quote from: Heiwa
OK. But how does my spacecraft then flies on to planet Mars? How to get out of Sun orbit?
Do I have to explain every little obvious step to YOU?
Once at that radius you have to apply the extra DeltaV to put that spacecraft into its Hohmann transfer orbit to Mars.
But, of course, there's also no big reason why enough DeltaV could not be applied direct from LEO though sometimes these extra steps are used to correct for small errors in velocity.
Sorry, any spacecraft leaving Earth always orbits Earth regardless of any Hill radius. And this Hohmann transfer thing is not an orbit. And of course you don't know where you are and cannot apply any DeltaV anywhere at the right time and direction to get out of Earth orbit. You sound like a NASA twerp having bought a cheap PhD from MIT.

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rabinoz

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11567 on: January 25, 2020, 01:52:37 PM »
Rab, Puck up a rock and throw it. That rock orbits the Earth, not the Sun.
Sure!
Quote from: Shifter
The Earth has a sphere of influence.
It sure does and that "sphere of influence" is related to the Hill sphere.

Quote from: Shifter
The sun does too obviously
Certainly and the Earth is well within it because it extends to a big fraction of the distance to Proxima Centauri.

Quote from: Shifter
but do you know how hard it is to send anything near the Sun? We are always moving sideways in relation to the Sun. Getting out of the solar system is easy.
It's not all that hard to get anything near the Sun though that orbital speed of almost 30 km/s does "get in the way".
What is really hard is getting the spacecraft to stay near the Sun and that is why the Parker Solar Probe did so many fly-by manoeuvres of Venus to gradually lose speed.

Parker Solar Probe - orbit and timeline by SciNews

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Yes

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11568 on: January 25, 2020, 02:02:52 PM »
Heiwa, do you believe that it's possible to have a satellite orbit the moon?
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rabinoz

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11569 on: January 25, 2020, 02:50:30 PM »
Quote from: Heiwa
OK. But how does my spacecraft then flies on to planet Mars? How to get out of Sun orbit?
Do I have to explain every little obvious step to YOU?
Once at that radius you have to apply the extra DeltaV to put that spacecraft into its Hohmann transfer orbit to Mars.
But, of course, there's also no big reason why enough DeltaV could not be applied direct from LEO though sometimes these extra steps are used to correct for small errors in velocity.
Sorry, any spacecraft leaving Earth always orbits Earth regardless of any Hill radius.
Incorrect!
If that is what you think please post some evidence or other support for your claim.

Quote from: Heiwa
And this Hohmann transfer thing is not an orbit.
Incorrect!
If it is for a satellite leaving LEO to get into a geostationary orbit the Hohmann transfer orbit is a highly elliptical orbit or Earth.
If there were no retro-burn at the apogee it would continue in an elliptical orbit with the perigee at the LEO altitude and the apogee at the GEO altitude.

Quote from: Heiwa
And of course you don't know where you are and cannot apply any DeltaV anywhere at the right time and direction to get out of Earth orbit.
Incorrect!
Of course "you" know where "you" know. In the case of the Hohmann transfer orbit from LEO to GEO it is easy for mission planners to calculate the time needed.
But, as explained numerous times before, positional and Doppler radar can measure these distances and velocities.
Quote from: Heiwa

You sound like a NASA twerp having bought a cheap PhD from MIT.
  • NASA has nothing to do with it
    Quote
    Hohmann orbit
    Hohmann orbit, also called Transfer Orbit, most economical path (though not the shortest or fastest) for a spacecraft to take from one planet to another. The German engineer Walter Hohmann showed in 1925 that elliptical orbits tangent to the orbits of both the planet of departure and the target planet require the least fuel and energy.

  • I don't have a cheap PhD from MIT or anywhere else.

  • You sound like someone unable to understand anything but who pretends to know everything.
    That sounds like a classic case of terminal Dunning-Kruger Syndrome.

<< Out of time: probably lots of typos >>

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11570 on: January 25, 2020, 11:00:32 PM »
Heiwa, do you believe that it's possible to have a satellite orbit the moon?
Thanks for asking. I believe that no spacecrafts with or without humans aboard have landed on the Moon or anywhere.
My understanding is that it is only possible for rockets to lob satellites into orbits around Earth one-way. These orbits can be LEO or GEO or infinite. In the latter case, if that orbit passes the Moon, Moon gravity may divert the satellite so it crashes on the Moon but why would anyone lob a satellite to the Moon like that?
NASA & Co are very proud of something they call the International Space Station, ISS, a manned satellite in LEO, which is served by rockets by, e.g. Mr. Lone Skum.
I believe ISS is just an unmanned satellite in very low altitude orbit, which I have seen myself from my roof garden when it passes above the Mediterranean sea below me.
The whole NASA/US space program is a scam to entertain stupid Americans. It keeps some 10 000's people busy inventing trips to planets and assteroids, bla, bla, bla.

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rabinoz

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11571 on: January 26, 2020, 02:06:46 AM »
Heiwa, do you believe that it's possible to have a satellite orbit the moon?
Thanks for asking. I believe that no spacecrafts with or without humans aboard have landed on the Moon or anywhere.
My understanding is that it is only possible for rockets to lob satellites into orbits around Earth one-way. These orbits can be LEO or GEO or infinite. In the latter case, if that orbit passes the Moon, Moon gravity may divert the satellite so it crashes on the Moon but why would anyone lob a satellite to the Moon like that?
I guess you failed this MIT course ???. Poor fellow, I know how humiliating it be so I thought you might like to catch up.
Here is that material ;D: Lecture L17 - Orbit Transfers and Interplanetary Trajectories.
Aren't I so thoughtful ;)!

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Bom Tishop

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11572 on: January 26, 2020, 02:58:41 AM »
a win, win, win! Win for Bullwinkle, Win for Heiwa, Win for The Flat Earth Society.
Except that Anders isn't a flat earther.
The win for Anders is $3k of graphics for $1200! I can't imagine why he'd turn that down!

Just for shits and proof of integrity,
I just spent $67.90 to forward mail to an out of USofA location
for a fellow member.   

I have no doubt I will be reimbursed after he receives the box.



Then there's Heiwa.   ::)

This is a 100 percent true story.
Quote from: Crutchwater
Quote from: FlatOrange
You can't murder a suicide victim
Tell that to Epstein!

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Heiwa

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11573 on: January 26, 2020, 08:08:42 AM »
I guess you failed this MIT course ???. Poor fellow, I know how humiliating it be so I thought you might like to catch up.
Here is that material ;D: Lecture L17 - Orbit Transfers and Interplanetary Trajectories.
Aren't I so thoughtful ;)!
Thanks. But the info doesn't help you win my Challenge! See post #1. Actually your info is pure garbage. I wonder what university teaches it? MIT?
The second fake man on the Moon, Buzz Aldrin, MIT PhD 62, thought you could navigate in space using a sextant and a clock ... and maybe a chart with 10 000 000 000 stars. You focused one of this stars at a certain time, noticed the angle and direction and - Hallelujah - your position in space was known so you could sail on.
Buzz didn't pay MIT $1M for his PhD. NASA did.

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markjo

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Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11574 on: January 26, 2020, 11:08:48 AM »
I guess you failed this MIT course ???. Poor fellow, I know how humiliating it be so I thought you might like to catch up.
Here is that material ;D: Lecture L17 - Orbit Transfers and Interplanetary Trajectories.
Aren't I so thoughtful ;)!
Thanks. But the info doesn't help you win my Challenge! See post #1. Actually your info is pure garbage. I wonder what university teaches it? MIT?
The second fake man on the Moon, Buzz Aldrin, MIT PhD 62, thought you could navigate in space using a sextant and a clock ... and maybe a chart with 10 000 000 000 stars. You focused one of this stars at a certain time, noticed the angle and direction and - Hallelujah - your position in space was known so you could sail on.
Buzz didn't pay MIT $1M for his PhD. NASA did.
Why do you keep saying such stupid (and obviously untrue) things?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Heiwa

  • 7778
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11575 on: January 26, 2020, 11:37:40 AM »
I guess you failed this MIT course ???. Poor fellow, I know how humiliating it be so I thought you might like to catch up.
Here is that material ;D: Lecture L17 - Orbit Transfers and Interplanetary Trajectories.
Aren't I so thoughtful ;)!
Thanks. But the info doesn't help you win my Challenge! See post #1. Actually your info is pure garbage. I wonder what university teaches it? MIT?
The second fake man on the Moon, Buzz Aldrin, MIT PhD 62, thought you could navigate in space using a sextant and a clock ... and maybe a chart with 10 000 000 000 stars. You focused one of this stars at a certain time, noticed the angle and direction and - Hallelujah - your position in space was known so you could sail on.
Buzz didn't pay MIT $1M for his PhD. NASA did.
Why do you keep saying such stupid (and obviously untrue) things?
But Buzz is an 1962 MIT PhD in astronautics! And NASA paid for it. And there are plenty stars in our galaxy to help you navigate. And Buzz has testified that he did it when flying to the Moon 1969. Maybe he was drunk as usual when he did it? Before that Buzz was a US Air force pilot trained to shot down communists.
Of course I consider Buzz a lying, criminal, cheap actor just playing as told.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 11:41:40 AM by Heiwa »

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rabinoz

  • 24206
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11576 on: January 26, 2020, 12:43:14 PM »
I guess you failed this MIT course ???. Poor fellow, I know how humiliating it be so I thought you might like to catch up.
Here is that material ;D: Lecture L17 - Orbit Transfers and Interplanetary Trajectories.
Aren't I so thoughtful ;)!
Thanks. But the info doesn't help you win my Challenge! See post #1. Actually your info is pure garbage. I wonder what university teaches it? MIT?
The second fake man on the Moon, Buzz Aldrin, MIT PhD 62, thought you could navigate in space using a sextant and a clock ... and maybe a chart with 10 000 000 000 stars. You focused one of this stars at a certain time, noticed the angle and direction and - Hallelujah - your position in space was known so you could sail on.
Buzz didn't pay MIT $1M for his PhD. NASA did.
Why do you keep saying such stupid (and obviously untrue) things?
But Buzz is an 1962 MIT PhD in astronautics! And NASA paid for it. And there are plenty stars in our galaxy to help you navigate. And Buzz has testified that he did it when flying to the Moon 1969. Maybe he was drunk as usual when he did it? Before that Buzz was a US Air force pilot trained to shot down communists.
Of course I consider Buzz a lying, criminal, cheap actor just playing as told.
Why do you keep saying such stupid (and obviously untrue) things?
Einstein didn't say: Only three things are infinite, the universe, human stupidity and Heiwa's ignorance, I'm not sure about the former but I'm absolutely convinced of the latter.
So you know nothing about celestial navigation either - got that!

How did Captain James Cook manage to find Tahiti, a little dot of an island in the Pacific Ocean, to observe the transit of Venus on June 3, 1769?

Celestial navigation using a sextant, of course!

Did he have a "maybe a chart with 10 000 000 000 stars"? Of course not!
Captain Cook used the list of positions of the Moon, Sun, planets and selected stars listed in "The Nautical Almanac and Astronomical Ephemeris for the year 1768":

Captain Cook used mainly lunar observations and his Harrison's "sea watch" No.1 (H4) to determine longitude.

Anyone with a trace of common sense might realise that the Apollo missions would have a similar, though much shorter lists of the lunar and star positions and far more accurate timekeeping.

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markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 38878
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11577 on: January 26, 2020, 12:46:06 PM »
But Buzz is an 1962 MIT PhD in astronautics!
No, Buzz graduated in 1963.

And NASA paid for it.
Nope.  Buzz didn't join NASA until after he graduated.

And there are plenty stars in our galaxy to help you navigate.
Yes, celestial navigation can be quite useful.

And Buzz has testified that he did it when flying to the Moon 1969.
Actually, it would have been Michael Collins (the command module pilot) who would have done the sightings.

Maybe he was drunk as usual when he did it?
Or, maybe you were drunk when you wrote this.

Before that Buzz was a US Air force pilot trained to shot down communists.
So were most of the early astronauts.  However, they did go through years of specialized training before their flights.

Of course I consider Buzz a lying, criminal, cheap actor just playing as told.
That's alright, I doubt that Buzz even knows who you are, let alone cares what you think of him.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Heiwa

  • 7778
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11578 on: January 26, 2020, 10:36:49 PM »

How did Captain James Cook manage to find Tahiti, a little dot of an island in the Pacific Ocean, to observe the transit of Venus on June 3, 1769?


Thanks for changing topic from my Challenge (about travel in 3D space from Earth to another object in space) to safe travel at sea from A to B.
Navigation at sea is simple! My great, great grandfather Nils Bjφrkman, who sailed to America and back to France many times 1765/80 knew! With a good clock aboard you know your longitude, when the Sun rises above the horizon in the morning, and you know your latitude, when you observe the Sun at noon and its angle above the horizon.
However, it doesn't work in 3D space as there is no horizon there. Only idiots like PhD Buzz Aldrin thinks otherwise.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 02:50:33 AM by Heiwa »

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Stash

  • 3689
Re: I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge
« Reply #11579 on: January 26, 2020, 11:14:53 PM »

However, it doesn't work in 3D space as there is no horizon there. Only idiots like PhD Buzz Aldrin thinks otherwise.



"This star chart was used by astronaut and Command Module Pilot, Michael Collins, during the Apollo 11 mission launched in July 1969. Star charts were an important piece of navigation equipment used by the astronauts during the Apollo missions, enabling them to fix their location at any given time."

Just because you don't understand how to navigate by stars in space doesn't mean no one else knows how to.
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.