Innapropriate Moderation Increasing

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ausGeoff

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Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« on: December 31, 2014, 01:00:15 AM »
I wish to lodge a further complaint about inconsistent and improper moderation across all Flat Earth forums.  I'm doing this on the advice of Pongo, whom (I consider) undeservedly reprimanded me for posting what he termed an "off topic" response.

To recap the specific scenario:

The question "For what reason would NASA need to lie to us about the earth being round?" was posted as a topic starter in the Q&A forum by RoundEarthFact on 21 December, 2014 @ 07:58:38 PM.

Shortly thereafter, iWitness posted this comment:

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Do you think when they realized the earth really was flat in the 1960's after failed space launches, they would just be like "oops, we were wrong the earth really is flat?" I think we can all agree, it would be easier to make a movie than risk the possibility of mass hysteria. My theory, is JFK was heavily involved in the early space program, and after finding out the earth was flat he was considering telling the public... but that didn't sit well with other world powers, and you know what happened next. RIP last great President.


Subsequently, I responded thusly:

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Q1.   What credible evidence do you have that proves JFK was "heavily involved" with the space program?  What does heavily involved mean exactly?
Q2.   What evidence do you base your claim on that JFK was "considering" telling the public the earth was (purportedly) flat?
Q3.   Why weren't any of the other confidantes of Kennedy silenced as well?  Hundreds of technicians would've also been aware of it.

Then, today, 30 December, Pongo posted this response as a result of my three questions (as above):

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Why are you bringing up JFK questions here?  At best you're woefully off topic, at worst, you're arguing with moderation.  If you want to complain about moderation then do it in S&C.  If you want questions about JFK in regards to a flat-earth, start your own thread.

So... as a flat earther, the posting by iWitness was not considered "off topic", nor was he warned n any way.  On the other hand, my direct response to his (apparently acceptable comment) was considered by Pongo to be off topic, and I was duly warned.

I'd appreciate—firstly a response from other moderator(s) (other than Pongo of course)—and also responses from other forum members, both flat earth and round earth—as to whether or not this is a classic example of unfair moderation favouring flat earthers, whilst at the same time disadvantaging round earthers.

As people are probably aware, this is not the first time I've raised the issue of unsatisfactory moderation on these forums.  As an old internet hand, I'm a member of literally dozens of other forums based around all sorts of subjects, and these Flat Earth forums are undoubtedly one of the worst moderated forums I visit regularly.  There seems to be no consistency amongst the different moderators—nor are the forum's rules (such as they are!) applied equally to flat earthers and round earthers.


If any moderator feels the need, then I'm more than happy to respond to any PMs to avoid an on-line war of words.

—Thanks.    :)

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2014, 05:28:44 AM »
ausGeoff, I am not sure what your intention was in making this thread.  iWitness did not even post in the thread in which you quoted Pongo.  Pongo was simply pointing out that your questions had absolutely nothing to do with anything that was being discussed in this particular thread, because iWitness had posted in another completely separate thread, and that you may have posted them in the wrong thread, possibly even out of spite because you were given a warning for posting off topic and low content posts in the Q&A section.  If any of this does not make sense, let me know and I will be happy to post links to both threads involved and we can discuss the issue further. 

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ausGeoff

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Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2014, 06:24:35 AM »
ausGeoff, I am not sure what your intention was in making this thread.
If you'd taken the time to read my post, you would've seen that Pongo advised me to do so if I had any complaints about the moderation here.  I do, so I have.  Simple.

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iWitness did not even post in the thread in which you quoted Pongo.  Pongo was simply pointing out that your questions had absolutely nothing to do with anything that was being discussed in this particular thread, because iWitness had posted in another completely separate thread, and that you may have posted them in the wrong thread, possibly even out of spite because you were given a warning for posting off topic and low content posts in the Q&A section.

You've totally and typically ignored the thrust of this thread.  Put simply, I'm questioning the fairness of the moderation on these forums.  iWiness posts a completely off topic comment—which stands without censure.  I reply with some questions in the same Q&A thread, receive zero response, complain about it, and it's later considered to be off topic (by Pongo) and I get a warning.

The fact that you seem to get a perverse thrill out of making me your whipping boy is becoming somewhat tiresome jroa and makes me less inclined to bother with inputting any more time and effort into this forum.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2014, 08:16:04 AM »
ausGeoff, I am not sure what your intention was in making this thread.
If you'd taken the time to read my post, you would've seen that Pongo advised me to do so if I had any complaints about the moderation here.  I do, so I have.  Simple.

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iWitness did not even post in the thread in which you quoted Pongo.  Pongo was simply pointing out that your questions had absolutely nothing to do with anything that was being discussed in this particular thread, because iWitness had posted in another completely separate thread, and that you may have posted them in the wrong thread, possibly even out of spite because you were given a warning for posting off topic and low content posts in the Q&A section.

You've totally and typically ignored the thrust of this thread.  Put simply, I'm questioning the fairness of the moderation on these forums.  iWiness posts a completely off topic comment—which stands without censure.  I reply with some questions in the same Q&A thread, receive zero response, complain about it, and it's later considered to be off topic (by Pongo) and I get a warning.

The fact that you seem to get a perverse thrill out of making me your whipping boy is becoming somewhat tiresome jroa and makes me less inclined to bother with inputting any more time and effort into this forum.


You mean, I got a slap on the wrist for derailing a topic, and now I am mad and want to get the mod in trouble.  Got it. 

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Pongo

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Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2014, 08:55:30 AM »
iWiness posts a completely off topic comment—which stands without censure.

iWitness was responding directly to the thread's question.

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robintex

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Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2014, 09:42:18 AM »
I agree with ausGeoff's comments. He covered the subject very well IMHO.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2014, 10:13:37 AM »
I agree with ausGeoff's comments. He covered the subject very well IMHO.

We are discussing whether or not ausGeoff's post were appropriate in the thread in which he got a hand slapping, and whether or not Pongo was right or wrong in giving him a warning, Googleotomy.  Do you care to actually chime in on the topic, or are you just going to say that, "I agree with everything my RE buddy said"?  Because that really does not add to this serious discussion about ausGeoff's concerns. 

The topic is about moderation, not about who was right or wrong.  Your agreement or disagreement with anyone is not the purpose of ausGeoff's post.  It is about mods somehow not fairly moderating the boards. 

Please, this is a serious subject on a serious discussion board.  Do not try to derail it. 

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robintex

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Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2014, 05:15:50 PM »
I am sure ausGeorge and myself are not the only ones addressing this problem of a double standard. We are not alone among "RE's" I assure you. Maybe we're just too vocal.

I'm not trying to derail this thread. I think the question was that the "Inapropiate Moderation Increasing"  has to do with the double standard of censure and no censure.

For example sandokhan and iWitness post no end of copypasta with no censure while any facts,  evidence or questions  posted by  "RE's" are censured.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 05:29:09 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2014, 05:50:26 PM »
When have you been censured?  Are you are referring to the times when you have posted low content, irrelevant comments in the section that is reserved for Flat Earth Questions and Answers and you received a warning?  Are you really still not understanding what a Q&A forum is?  If I am not understanding you correctly, please correct me, because right now, I think that you are simply whining about moderators actually doing their jobs. 

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ausGeoff

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Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2015, 01:01:32 AM »
From the tone of both jroa's comments and Pongo's comment, I can see that inconsistent moderation is something that neither will acknowledge as even possibly occurring on some occasions.

I'm satisfied that at least my complaint is now on the record, so I'm quite happy to end the discussion.  Ultimately, the final decisions about the moderation of a forum—any and all forums—is made by the moderators and/or administrators as they see fit.  Obviously nobody is "forcing" me to participate here;  I do it under my own volition of course.  Therefore, at the end of the day, the moderators' decision is the final one, and any participant (such as me) has to accept that.  It might hurt, but, as they say, them's the facts.

Thank you.    :)


Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2015, 01:52:47 PM »
I too have a complaint about Pongo's moderation.
He can be clearly seen in many threads baiting RE'ers into giving responses which go tangentially to the topic, and then immediately goes into "mod mode" and lectures them about inappropriate posting. Meanwhile, FE'ers posting reams of copypasta nonsense are ignored by him. He deliberately posts in a childish manner in order to annoy, to elicit responses he can then flex his muscles over. It's not a very professional way of behaving for someone with mod responsibility.

Pongo posted this statement here:

The Flat Earth Q&A forums are changing on a trial basis.  From now on, the only people allowed to answer questions are flat-earthers or people giving genuine flat earth responses.

Things this will fix:
-Round-earthers peppering earnest questions with quick and flippant responses.
-People will be able to have their questions answered without the thread quickly dropping into chaos.
-It will preserve the image of the society as a place of seriousness.
-It will help better define the different forums.


Things to avoid:
-Snarky responses.  We will remove them.
-Dissenting round-earth opinions.  We will remove them or move them to FE Debate where they belong.
-Disingenuous responses.  (Example... Q: How does the moon work on a flat-earth? A: We think there is no moon.) We will remove them.


You only have to look in my thread about sunlight and moonshramps to see examples of Pongo himself being both snarky and disingenuous. Also in that thread there is a good example of Pongo bullying another poster who made a post that was, strictly speaking, in keeping with the topic. Pongo's angle was that it was not a Flat Earth Question or Answer and therefore unacceptable.
I spoke up for that other poster that I thought Pongo's warning was harsh, to which I then was accused of not posting a FE Q or A. Since Pongo himself, by so doing had also made a post which wasn't a FE Q or A, I levelled the same accusation at him. But even though I posted the exact same question as Pongo, word for word, and for the same reasons, I received a ban.

Pongo's behaviour is hypocritical on several levels, he trolls and baits, he stamps his foot like a child and threatens mod action whenever his arguments begin to break down, he applies the rules unevenly and lets FE'ers take huge liberties with rules he enforces like iron bars on RE'ers, and frankly I think he needs to grow up and have a slightly more adult attitude if he is to hold the post of moderator.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2015, 06:33:02 PM »
As someone who has always (well, usually) been considered fair and just in my moderation by both sides, I thought I'd offer my two bits on the issue raised in the OP.  From the looks of things, iWitness was directly addressing the question posed in the OP in a reasonable, nonargumentative manner.  Note what we're seeing here: the OP asked a "question" (Q), "and" (&) iWitness made an honest attempt to "answer" (A) it.

ausGeoff then went on to attempt to "goad" iWitness into an argument (G...wait, there's no "G" in "Q&A"!)  This is why ausGeoff was accused of derailing the topic by Pongo.  So I'm really sorry, ausGeoff, but I have to side with Pongo on this one.  The Q&A forum is for asking questions, and having those questions answered, not for debate or side arguments, which is what you were trying to start in the thread.  It was absolutely inappropriate.

Please familiarize yourself with the rules, ausGeoff.  There was nothing inappropriate about Pongo's moderation in this instance.  We have a debate forum for what you were trying to do.  It makes no sense to clutter a Q&A thread with an argument.

If I do happen to be wrong about the flow of the thread and what went down, please enlighten me as to how.  I must confess I didn't go into the actual thread as both sides seemed content with the way things were presented here.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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ausGeoff

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Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2015, 06:43:38 PM »
Thanks for your input Roundy, but please note my last comment (above)...

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I'm satisfied that at least my complaint is now on the record, so I'm quite happy to end the discussion.  Ultimately, the final decisions about the moderation of a forum—any and all forums—is made by the moderators and/or administrators as they see fit.  Obviously nobody is "forcing" me to participate here;  I do it under my own volition of course.  Therefore, at the end of the day, the moderators' decision is the final one, and any participant (such as me) has to accept that.  It might hurt, but, as they say, them's the facts.  Thank you.


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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2015, 07:02:47 PM »
You're right, I somehow missed that.  I still feel like you were left with a bad taste in your mouth because the offense wasn't adequately explained, and clearly your attitude toward both jroa and Pongo is rather hostile to begin with, and I was doing my best to help you understand where the others were coming from.  I do apologize if my attempt to help somehow offended you.  Looking at it now I can see how my lighthearted attempts at humor might be misconstrued as vicious sarcasm.  Oh the internets.  At the very least maybe having the issue laid out for you as I did will help prevent such an offense in the future, both from you and whoever else might happen to read the thread.

Again, sorry.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Orifiel

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Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2015, 07:18:52 PM »
I agree with ausGeoff's comments. He covered the subject very well IMHO.

We are discussing whether or not ausGeoff's post were appropriate in the thread in which he got a hand slapping, and whether or not Pongo was right or wrong in giving him a warning, Googleotomy.  Do you care to actually chime in on the topic, or are you just going to say that, "I agree with everything my RE buddy said"?  Because that really does not add to this serious discussion about ausGeoff's concerns. 

The topic is about moderation, not about who was right or wrong.  Your agreement or disagreement with anyone is not the purpose of ausGeoff's post.  It is about mods somehow not fairly moderating the boards. 

Please, this is a serious subject on a serious discussion board.  Do not try to derail it.

Am I the only one not understanding this, or am I just kinda unaware...? Because I see iWitness talking about JFK, then ausGeoff asks about JFK, and then Pongo gets Moddy...If that's the case, then ausGeoff should either continue to be warned BUT iWitness also gets a warning, or both should receive no warning.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Innapropriate Moderation Increasing
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2015, 07:22:16 PM »
You only have to look in my thread about sunlight and moonshramps to see examples of Pongo himself being both snarky and disingenuous.

Snarky?  Maybe a little, but certainly not disingenuous.  I thought he handled that thread pretty well.  Considering that your question is based on a notion that nobody really takes seriously (as Hoppy pointed out, it was an argument chiefly championed by Crustinator, who was regarded as a troll on both sides of the argument), the only thing Pongo might have done wrong was humoring your own attempts at trolling for too long.  The thread really should have been locked before it got past the first page, or moved somewhere more appropriate like Complete Nonsense.  It was pointed out that the whole "shramp" thing was a joke.  The discussion really should have ended there.

At any rate since ausGeoff was apparently satisfied with the answers he got I'm going to go ahead and do what should have been done days ago and lock this thread.  Obviously your rant is a different matter and if you feel it warrants further discussion you're free to start another thread about it.

I agree with ausGeoff's comments. He covered the subject very well IMHO.

We are discussing whether or not ausGeoff's post were appropriate in the thread in which he got a hand slapping, and whether or not Pongo was right or wrong in giving him a warning, Googleotomy.  Do you care to actually chime in on the topic, or are you just going to say that, "I agree with everything my RE buddy said"?  Because that really does not add to this serious discussion about ausGeoff's concerns. 

The topic is about moderation, not about who was right or wrong.  Your agreement or disagreement with anyone is not the purpose of ausGeoff's post.  It is about mods somehow not fairly moderating the boards. 

Please, this is a serious subject on a serious discussion board.  Do not try to derail it.

Am I the only one not understanding this, or am I just kinda unaware...? Because I see iWitness talking about JFK, then ausGeoff asks about JFK, and then Pongo gets Moddy...If that's the case, then ausGeoff should either continue to be warned BUT iWitness also gets a warning, or both should receive no warning.

iWitness directly answered the question in the OP, thus fulfilling the function of a Q&A thread.  ausGeoff did not.  Case closed.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?