Earth is round O

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Earth is round O
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:19:04 AM »
If earth is flat then why on the north pole half of the year is night and the other half day?? And yes i have been there.  ???

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2014, 05:38:02 AM »
Were you at the north pole for a whole year in order to verify this?

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inquisitive

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2014, 05:53:33 AM »
Were you at the north pole for a whole year in order to verify this?
Why would that be necessary?

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2014, 05:57:27 AM »
Were you at the north pole for a whole year in order to verify this?
Why would that be necessary?
The new guy made a claim and I was requesting for him to clarify this claim before I answer his question.  Do you mind?  Thanks. 

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Saros

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2014, 07:25:00 AM »
If earth is flat then why on the north pole half of the year is night and the other half day?? And yes i have been there.  ???

Like Jroa I also seriously doubt that you have been to the north pole, although that really doesn't matter, as there is no need for the Sun to shine over the north pole all year round if the Earth is flat. You're not paying attention. The Sun is not a sphere shining in all directions simultaneously!

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Cartesian

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2014, 07:26:47 AM »
Were you at the north pole for a whole year in order to verify this?
Why would that be necessary?
The new guy made a claim and I was requesting for him to clarify this claim before I answer his question.  Do you mind?  Thanks.

You only commented on his second sentence, why did you skip the first one?
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2014, 07:30:31 AM »
Were you at the north pole for a whole year in order to verify this?
Why would that be necessary?
The new guy made a claim and I was requesting for him to clarify this claim before I answer his question.  Do you mind?  Thanks.

You only commented on his second sentence, why did you skip the first one?

Do you not understand how asking for clarification before answering works?  Is this your second week in English class? 

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Cartesian

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2014, 07:34:30 AM »
Were you at the north pole for a whole year in order to verify this?
Why would that be necessary?
The new guy made a claim and I was requesting for him to clarify this claim before I answer his question.  Do you mind?  Thanks.

You only commented on his second sentence, why did you skip the first one?

Do you not understand how asking for clarification before answering works?  Is this your second week in English class?

I was asking for clarification from you too. Do you really need him to be there the whole year? But before that, have you seen a stratellite or ice wall yourself?

And no, this is my first week.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2014, 07:45:42 AM »
Were you at the north pole for a whole year in order to verify this?
Why would that be necessary?
The new guy made a claim and I was requesting for him to clarify this claim before I answer his question.  Do you mind?  Thanks.

You only commented on his second sentence, why did you skip the first one?

Do you not understand how asking for clarification before answering works?  Is this your second week in English class?

I was asking for clarification from you too. Do you really need him to be there the whole year? But before that, have you seen a stratellite or ice wall yourself?

And no, this is my first week.

Maybe you should not move the goal posts.  Don't change the question to suit your needs. 

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Cartesian

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2014, 07:50:55 AM »
Were you at the north pole for a whole year in order to verify this?
Why would that be necessary?
The new guy made a claim and I was requesting for him to clarify this claim before I answer his question.  Do you mind?  Thanks.

You only commented on his second sentence, why did you skip the first one?

Do you not understand how asking for clarification before answering works?  Is this your second week in English class?

I was asking for clarification from you too. Do you really need him to be there the whole year? But before that, have you seen a stratellite or ice wall yourself?

And no, this is my first week.

Maybe you should not move the goal posts.  Don't change the question to suit your needs.

Typical double standard.
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Göebbels

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2014, 09:45:50 AM »
If he was a the North Pole for a few days and during time he didn't experience night time, then there you have a strong evidence towards the claim that at the north pole half a year has light time and half year night time.

BTW: if we know that at northern this happens it's because we have had tools or people that already verified this.

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Saros

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2014, 10:07:46 AM »
If he was a the North Pole for a few days and during time he didn't experience night time, then there you have a strong evidence towards the claim that at the north pole half a year has light time and half year night time.

BTW: if we know that at northern this happens it's because we have had tools or people that already verified this.

Just for the sake of argument, has anyone been at the north pole all year round at all? I don't think so. As far as I know there are no permanent north pole stations.

Check out what wikipedia has to say about this:

"While the South Pole lies on a continental land mass, the North Pole is located in the middle of the Arctic Ocean amid waters that are almost permanently covered with constantly shifting sea ice. This makes it impractical to construct a permanent station at the North Pole (unlike the South Pole). However, the Soviet Union, and later Russia, constructed a number of manned drifting stations on a generally annual basis since 1937, some of which have passed over or very close to the Pole. Since 2002, the Russians have also annually established a base, Barneo, close to the Pole. This operates for a few weeks during early spring."

So, if no human is present there 24/7 all year round, I am wondering how anyone can claim anything with 100 % certainty. I am not necessarily against the idea that the pole experiences a six-month polar night and six-month polar day, but for the sake of argument, what is this notion based on? Is it based on theory or on real observations. Anyway, like I said earlier the polar night doesn't negate the FE idea as the Sun is directional.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 12:30:39 PM by Saros »

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Göebbels

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2014, 10:15:43 AM »
I don't know Saros. If we going by using that logic, we know dinousaurs got extinct like 65 millions years ago, correct? No human being was alive by then  yet we managed to calculate the dates by using modern science.
I wouldn't be surprised if we have powerful tools now to know how the sunlight works at the north pole with today's knowledge.

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29silhouette

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2014, 10:35:06 AM »
Is it based on theory or on real observations.
real observations

Quote
Anyway, like I said earlier the polar night doesn't negate the FE idea as the Sun is directional.

The Sun is not a sphere shining in all directions simultaneously!
Is this based on theory, or your real observations from having seen the side of this spotlight sun, or seen it appear as something other than round when it's not directly overhead shining straight down on you?

Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2014, 10:49:32 AM »
I don't know Saros. If we going by using that logic, we know dinousaurs got extinct like 65 millions years ago, correct? No human being was alive by then  yet we managed to calculate the dates by using modern science.
I wouldn't be surprised if we have powerful tools now to know how the sunlight works at the north pole with today's knowledge.

ho ho ho

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sceptimatic

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2014, 11:12:07 AM »
I don't know Saros. If we going by using that logic, we know dinousaurs got extinct like 65 millions years ago, correct? No human being was alive by then  yet we managed to calculate the dates by using modern science.
I wouldn't be surprised if we have powerful tools now to know how the sunlight works at the north pole with today's knowledge.
To be fair, you have no chance and it's easy to see why you believe what you do. It might be to your benefit to find out our legitimate recorded history to the nearest 1000 years and then ask yourself who became the expert for unrecorded history.

65 million year old dinosaurs.  ::)

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Pongo

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2014, 11:35:28 AM »
Were you at the north pole for a whole year in order to verify this?

Also, which North Pole?  There are many.

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Saros

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2014, 12:44:30 PM »
Is it based on theory or on real observations.
real observations

Quote
Anyway, like I said earlier the polar night doesn't negate the FE idea as the Sun is directional.

The Sun is not a sphere shining in all directions simultaneously!
Is this based on theory, or your real observations from having seen the side of this spotlight sun, or seen it appear as something other than round when it's not directly overhead shining straight down on you?

I mentioned that I am arguing simply because I doubt real observations were ever made not that I don't believe the polar night lasts six months at the north pole. However, if you really insist that humans stayed at the north pole continuously for a whole year, I would like to see the evidence. Please provide a source for the claim.

If you're going to argue that the Sun is not what I suggest, you should also provide evidence to back up your claim. Why do you think it is a sphere and not a disc? Please elaborate why it is necessary to be a sphere.

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Cartesian

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2014, 01:59:22 PM »
In central Greenland the sun does not set from the end of May until the end of July (two months).

http://www.greenland.com/en/about-greenland/nature-climate/midnight-sun/

The further north you go, the longer midnight sun is in the summer. There is 24-hour sunlight in Qaanaaq, north Greenland between late April and late August (four months). And yes, people do live there.

http://www.greenland.com/en/destinations/north-greenland/qaanaaq/
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2014, 02:25:14 PM »
I have personally spent a few days in St Petersburg during their White Nights and can testify that it did not get dark.

Then again, if the world were flat it would be like that everywhere, every single night. 
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29silhouette

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2014, 03:36:49 PM »
I mentioned that I am arguing simply because I doubt real observations were ever made not that I don't believe the polar night lasts six months at the north pole. However, if you really insist that humans stayed at the north pole continuously for a whole year, I would like to see the evidence. Please provide a source for the claim.
I'm not insisting or basing it off someone being at the n.pole for a whole year.  I'm saying there are enough observations from the north pole, the vicinity of, or in the arctic circle in general, to say so.

Quote
If you're going to argue that the Sun is not what I suggest, you should also provide evidence to back up your claim. Why do you think it is a sphere and not a disc? Please elaborate why it is necessary to be a sphere.
Look at a sphere from any angle.  The perimeter forms a circle.  Look at a disk from different angles.  the perimeter becomes an ellipse.  If the sun is a spotlight as you say, how does it remain a circle all day long?  I also have pictures I took (posted here a couple years ago) of the sun in the morning, noon, and afternoon.  There were sunspots visible, the orientation of which did not visibly change (other than the view appearing to rotate clockwise- result of latitude I took them from) which means that side of the sun was facing me the whole day.

Do you have any visible evidence the sun is a spotlight instead of a sphere?

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mikeman7918

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2014, 08:02:13 PM »
I don't know Saros. If we going by using that logic, we know dinousaurs got extinct like 65 millions years ago, correct? No human being was alive by then  yet we managed to calculate the dates by using modern science.
I wouldn't be surprised if we have powerful tools now to know how the sunlight works at the north pole with today's knowledge.
To be fair, you have no chance and it's easy to see why you believe what you do. It might be to your benefit to find out our legitimate recorded history to the nearest 1000 years and then ask yourself who became the expert for unrecorded history.

65 million year old dinosaurs.  ::)
So dinosaurs are also part of the conspiracy or do you just know nothing about dinosaurs?  This society might as well be called "The Everything is a Lie Society" or "The Society of Science Class Nappers".
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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FlatOrange

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2014, 09:21:42 PM »
This thread failed before it even got started.
Quote from: Heiwa
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

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Saros

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2014, 11:17:52 PM »
I mentioned that I am arguing simply because I doubt real observations were ever made not that I don't believe the polar night lasts six months at the north pole. However, if you really insist that humans stayed at the north pole continuously for a whole year, I would like to see the evidence. Please provide a source for the claim.
I'm not insisting or basing it off someone being at the n.pole for a whole year.  I'm saying there are enough observations from the north pole, the vicinity of, or in the arctic circle in general, to say so.

Quote
If you're going to argue that the Sun is not what I suggest, you should also provide evidence to back up your claim. Why do you think it is a sphere and not a disc? Please elaborate why it is necessary to be a sphere.
Look at a sphere from any angle.  The perimeter forms a circle.  Look at a disk from different angles.  the perimeter becomes an ellipse.  If the sun is a spotlight as you say, how does it remain a circle all day long?  I also have pictures I took (posted here a couple years ago) of the sun in the morning, noon, and afternoon.  There were sunspots visible, the orientation of which did not visibly change (other than the view appearing to rotate clockwise- result of latitude I took them from) which means that side of the sun was facing me the whole day.

Do you have any visible evidence the sun is a spotlight instead of a sphere?

If it were that easy to explain it conclusively enough and convince the rest of you, you would be FE believers by now. However, you're assuming things are what they seem to be just because it works well in the HC model. Although most of the time this is a valid approach, it doesn't guarantee it is the correct approach or that it matches reality.

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Cartesian

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2014, 03:54:36 AM »
I mentioned that I am arguing simply because I doubt real observations were ever made not that I don't believe the polar night lasts six months at the north pole. However, if you really insist that humans stayed at the north pole continuously for a whole year, I would like to see the evidence. Please provide a source for the claim.
I'm not insisting or basing it off someone being at the n.pole for a whole year.  I'm saying there are enough observations from the north pole, the vicinity of, or in the arctic circle in general, to say so.

Quote
If you're going to argue that the Sun is not what I suggest, you should also provide evidence to back up your claim. Why do you think it is a sphere and not a disc? Please elaborate why it is necessary to be a sphere.
Look at a sphere from any angle.  The perimeter forms a circle.  Look at a disk from different angles.  the perimeter becomes an ellipse.  If the sun is a spotlight as you say, how does it remain a circle all day long?  I also have pictures I took (posted here a couple years ago) of the sun in the morning, noon, and afternoon.  There were sunspots visible, the orientation of which did not visibly change (other than the view appearing to rotate clockwise- result of latitude I took them from) which means that side of the sun was facing me the whole day.

Do you have any visible evidence the sun is a spotlight instead of a sphere?

If it were that easy to explain it conclusively enough and convince the rest of you, you would be FE believers by now. However, you're assuming things are what they seem to be just because it works well in the HC model. Although most of the time this is a valid approach, it doesn't guarantee it is the correct approach or that it matches reality.

If it were possible to explain FE model in a way that it is testable, then someone would have done it by now. So maybe, the earth is not flat after all. Just saying.
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Lemmiwinks

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2014, 08:28:26 AM »
I mentioned that I am arguing simply because I doubt real observations were ever made not that I don't believe the polar night lasts six months at the north pole. However, if you really insist that humans stayed at the north pole continuously for a whole year, I would like to see the evidence. Please provide a source for the claim.
I'm not insisting or basing it off someone being at the n.pole for a whole year.  I'm saying there are enough observations from the north pole, the vicinity of, or in the arctic circle in general, to say so.

Quote
If you're going to argue that the Sun is not what I suggest, you should also provide evidence to back up your claim. Why do you think it is a sphere and not a disc? Please elaborate why it is necessary to be a sphere.
Look at a sphere from any angle.  The perimeter forms a circle.  Look at a disk from different angles.  the perimeter becomes an ellipse.  If the sun is a spotlight as you say, how does it remain a circle all day long?  I also have pictures I took (posted here a couple years ago) of the sun in the morning, noon, and afternoon.  There were sunspots visible, the orientation of which did not visibly change (other than the view appearing to rotate clockwise- result of latitude I took them from) which means that side of the sun was facing me the whole day.

Do you have any visible evidence the sun is a spotlight instead of a sphere?

If it were that easy to explain it conclusively enough and convince the rest of you, you would be FE believers by now. However, you're assuming things are what they seem to be just because it works well in the HC model. Although most of the time this is a valid approach, it doesn't guarantee it is the correct approach or that it matches reality.

If it were possible to explain FE model in a way that it is testable, then someone would have done it by now. So maybe, the earth is not flat after all. Just saying.

Dig enough and the incredibly dense and myopic religious overtones come out. You'll get legion in here blabbing about believers and faith and stupidity.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2014, 08:45:32 AM »
I mentioned that I am arguing simply because I doubt real observations were ever made not that I don't believe the polar night lasts six months at the north pole. However, if you really insist that humans stayed at the north pole continuously for a whole year, I would like to see the evidence. Please provide a source for the claim.
I'm not insisting or basing it off someone being at the n.pole for a whole year.  I'm saying there are enough observations from the north pole, the vicinity of, or in the arctic circle in general, to say so.

Quote
If you're going to argue that the Sun is not what I suggest, you should also provide evidence to back up your claim. Why do you think it is a sphere and not a disc? Please elaborate why it is necessary to be a sphere.
Look at a sphere from any angle.  The perimeter forms a circle.  Look at a disk from different angles.  the perimeter becomes an ellipse.  If the sun is a spotlight as you say, how does it remain a circle all day long?  I also have pictures I took (posted here a couple years ago) of the sun in the morning, noon, and afternoon.  There were sunspots visible, the orientation of which did not visibly change (other than the view appearing to rotate clockwise- result of latitude I took them from) which means that side of the sun was facing me the whole day.

Do you have any visible evidence the sun is a spotlight instead of a sphere?

If it were that easy to explain it conclusively enough and convince the rest of you, you would be FE believers by now. However, you're assuming things are what they seem to be just because it works well in the HC model. Although most of the time this is a valid approach, it doesn't guarantee it is the correct approach or that it matches reality.

I think Saros nailed it right here.

Simple and common observations are difficult to explain in the FE model.
Explanations for these simple and common observations, and many others, work well within the HC model.
Therefore we use the HC model.

Why isn't this a valid approach in this case? Because you don't like it?

The statement that this is no guarantee that the HC model is correct is valid, but why discard a model that works well for one that doesn't work at all? There is currently no viable alternative.

Why shouldn't we assume things are what they seem unless we have direct evidence they are not? Sometimes this does happen:

Some details of the orbit of Mercury were not explained by Keplerian mechanics. These anomalies were due to previously-unknown relativistic effects, and now we know that Newtonian gravity and Keplerian mechanics are an adequate approximation in many, but not all, cases.

The Earth looks flat from close to the surface, but additional measurements clearly indicate it's spherical.

Come up with a model that explains what we already see and can successfully make predictions where the conventional HC model fails, and the HC model will be abandoned. This will be a pretty tall order, but there is no guarantee that it cannot be done.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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29silhouette

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2014, 09:22:55 AM »
I mentioned that I am arguing simply because I doubt real observations were ever made not that I don't believe the polar night lasts six months at the north pole. However, if you really insist that humans stayed at the north pole continuously for a whole year, I would like to see the evidence. Please provide a source for the claim.
I'm not insisting or basing it off someone being at the n.pole for a whole year.  I'm saying there are enough observations from the north pole, the vicinity of, or in the arctic circle in general, to say so.

Quote
If you're going to argue that the Sun is not what I suggest, you should also provide evidence to back up your claim. Why do you think it is a sphere and not a disc? Please elaborate why it is necessary to be a sphere.
Look at a sphere from any angle.  The perimeter forms a circle.  Look at a disk from different angles.  the perimeter becomes an ellipse.  If the sun is a spotlight as you say, how does it remain a circle all day long?  I also have pictures I took (posted here a couple years ago) of the sun in the morning, noon, and afternoon.  There were sunspots visible, the orientation of which did not visibly change (other than the view appearing to rotate clockwise- result of latitude I took them from) which means that side of the sun was facing me the whole day.

Do you have any visible evidence the sun is a spotlight instead of a sphere?

If it were that easy to explain it conclusively enough and convince the rest of you, you would be FE believers by now. However, you're assuming things are what they seem to be just because it works well in the HC model. Although most of the time this is a valid approach, it doesn't guarantee it is the correct approach or that it matches reality.
From what you're saying, you have no visual evidence to suggest it's a spotlight, nor any working theory on how a spotlight would appear round from any illuminated spot on a flat Earth.  Is this correct?

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Lemmiwinks

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Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2014, 09:34:55 AM »
I mentioned that I am arguing simply because I doubt real observations were ever made not that I don't believe the polar night lasts six months at the north pole. However, if you really insist that humans stayed at the north pole continuously for a whole year, I would like to see the evidence. Please provide a source for the claim.
I'm not insisting or basing it off someone being at the n.pole for a whole year.  I'm saying there are enough observations from the north pole, the vicinity of, or in the arctic circle in general, to say so.

Quote
If you're going to argue that the Sun is not what I suggest, you should also provide evidence to back up your claim. Why do you think it is a sphere and not a disc? Please elaborate why it is necessary to be a sphere.
Look at a sphere from any angle.  The perimeter forms a circle.  Look at a disk from different angles.  the perimeter becomes an ellipse.  If the sun is a spotlight as you say, how does it remain a circle all day long?  I also have pictures I took (posted here a couple years ago) of the sun in the morning, noon, and afternoon.  There were sunspots visible, the orientation of which did not visibly change (other than the view appearing to rotate clockwise- result of latitude I took them from) which means that side of the sun was facing me the whole day.

Do you have any visible evidence the sun is a spotlight instead of a sphere?

If it were that easy to explain it conclusively enough and convince the rest of you, you would be FE believers by now. However, you're assuming things are what they seem to be just because it works well in the HC model. Although most of the time this is a valid approach, it doesn't guarantee it is the correct approach or that it matches reality.
From what you're saying, you have no visual evidence to suggest it's a spotlight, nor any working theory on how a spotlight would appear round from any illuminated spot on a flat Earth.  Is this correct?

You really want to shoot them down, ask why you can't see the infrared signature of the sun at night if it were still up there but pointed away from us. They flee the thread at that question.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

Re: Earth is round O
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2014, 10:04:50 PM »
If earth is flat then why on the north pole half of the year is night and the other half day?? And yes i have been there.  ???
    i agree the earth is round and why because if you take a drop of water and drop it it is a ball not a flat disc A SPHERE IS THE NATURAL SHAPE TO BE ASSUMED and billions of years ago when earth was started rocks where colliding into each other forming the earth and unless the rocks are supper malleable and can just collide so hard they flatten with ought obliterating the structure in that hybrid of reality maybe that could happen but otherwise with the earth would need to be round ;D
and look you don't need to hate me for stating my opinion!