Measure the FE distance to the sun.

So as we all probably know from the wiki, the sun is apparently 3000 miles from the earth and since the winter solstice is coming up, I invite everyone here to test whether or not the earth is actually flat. I propose that on the day of the Winter Solstice, Dec 21st, let's measure the angle to the sun from our various locations and plug in the proper trigonometry to see if we all come up with the same answers. If the FE theory is correct then we should arrive on or about the 3000 mile mark for the sun's distance (or if not 3000 then we should at least have a similar answer as Voliva could have simply been wrong). There will be some science to do so be warned. There will be 3 phases to this experiment:

Find your distance to the tropic of capricorn.

1. Do a Google search by typing "distance [your city] to tropic of capricorn"
2. It should return a result from dateandtime.info, click the link
3. The link will show you your distance to the tropic of capricorn in km and miles. Record your distance to the tropic of capricorn in miles.

Measure angle of sun above horizon at noon on Dec. 21st.

1. There are many methods for measuring the angle of the sun but let's just use something you might already have, a protractor.
2. At solar noon on Dec. 21st, make the base of your protractor parallel with the earths surface and then point the other end of it toward the sun. Record the angle of the sun in degrees.

Here is a link that goes in a little more detail about how to measure an angle with a protractor.
http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/geology/powell/scale_module/protractor/protractor_roll.htm

Here is a link to help you determine when solar noon is for your location:
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/

Calculate the distance to the sun.

This will just be some brief trigonometry but I will also provide a link to a trig calculator if you'd rather not do the calculation.

You will need to use the following formula:



where A is the angle you measured, b is the distance to the tropic of capricorn and a is the distance to the sun. Solve for a.

Here is the online trig calculator where you can just input the numbers above to obtain the length for side a.

---------------------

Alright then. Let's see what happens.

Edit: removed misuse of the word azimuth, included solar noon calculator

Placeholder for my answer.

My distance to the tropic of capricorn is:

7474 km or 4644 miles.

Here is my prediction for what the sun's angle should be if Voliva was correct:

tan(A)=3000miles/4644miles

tan(A)=0.6460

A=arctan(0.6460)

A=32.86 degrees (call it 33 degrees)

Can't wait to see what happens!

Edit: Converted Voliva's distance from miles to km.

Edit 2: Converted all distances to miles to stay consistent with Voliva's calculations.

So as we all probably know from the wiki, the sun is apparently 3000 miles from the earth and since the winter solstice is coming up, I invite everyone here to test whether or not the earth is actually flat. I propose that on the day of the Winter Solstice, Dec 21st, let's measure the angle to the sun from our various locations and plug in the proper trigonometry to see if we all come up with the same answers. If the FE theory is correct then we should arrive on or about the 3000 mile mark for the sun's distance (or if not 3000 then we should at least have a similar answer as Voliva could have simply been wrong). There will be some science to do so be warned. There will be 3 phases to this experiment:

Find your distance to the tropic of capricorn.

1. Do a Google search by typing "distance [your city] to tropic of capricorn"
2. It should return a result from dateandtime.info, click the link
3. The link will show you your distance to the tropic of capricorn in km and miles. Record your distance to the tropic of capricorn in miles.

Measure angle of sun above horizon at noon on Dec. 21st.

1. There are many methods for measuring the azimuth angle of the sun but let's just use something you might already have, a protractor.
2. At noon on Dec. 21st, make the base of your protractor parallel with the earths surface and then point the other end of it toward the sun. Record the azimuth angle of the sun in degrees.

Here is a link that goes in a little more detail about how to measure an angle with a protractor.
http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/geology/powell/scale_module/protractor/protractor_roll.htm

Calculate the distance to the sun.

This will just be some brief trigonometry but I will also provide a link to a trig calculator if you'd rather not do the calculation.

You will need to use the following formula:



where A is the angle you measured, b is the distance to the tropic of capricorn and a is the distance to the sun. Solve for a.

Here is the online trig calculator where you can just input the numbers above to obtain the length for side a.

---------------------

Alright then. Let's see what happens.

Question: When measuring the azimuth of the sun, is the angle read from the line that bisects the sun?

Here is mine.

I will be 4918 miles from the tropic of capricorn.

tan(A) = 3000 miles / 4918 miles
tan(A) = .6100040666937
A = arctan(.6100040666937)
A = 31.38336° (call it 32)

Quote from: rottingroom on December 10, 2014, 06:35:52 AM

So as we all probably know from the wiki, the sun is apparently 3000 miles from the earth and since the winter solstice is coming up, I invite everyone here to test whether or not the earth is actually flat. I propose that on the day of the Winter Solstice, Dec 21st, let's measure the angle to the sun from our various locations and plug in the proper trigonometry to see if we all come up with the same answers. If the FE theory is correct then we should arrive on or about the 3000 mile mark for the sun's distance (or if not 3000 then we should at least have a similar answer as Voliva could have simply been wrong). There will be some science to do so be warned. There will be 3 phases to this experiment:

Find your distance to the tropic of capricorn.

1. Do a Google search by typing "distance [your city] to tropic of capricorn"
2. It should return a result from dateandtime.info, click the link
3. The link will show you your distance to the tropic of capricorn in km and miles. Record your distance to the tropic of capricorn in miles.

Measure angle of sun above horizon at noon on Dec. 21st.

1. There are many methods for measuring the azimuth angle of the sun but let's just use something you might already have, a protractor.
2. At noon on Dec. 21st, make the base of your protractor parallel with the earths surface and then point the other end of it toward the sun. Record the azimuth angle of the sun in degrees.

Here is a link that goes in a little more detail about how to measure an angle with a protractor.
http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/geology/powell/scale_module/protractor/protractor_roll.htm

Calculate the distance to the sun.

This will just be some brief trigonometry but I will also provide a link to a trig calculator if you'd rather not do the calculation.

You will need to use the following formula:



where A is the angle you measured, b is the distance to the tropic of capricorn and a is the distance to the sun. Solve for a.

Here is the online trig calculator where you can just input the numbers above to obtain the length for side a.

---------------------

Alright then. Let's see what happens.

Question: When measuring the azimuth of the sun, is the angle read from the line that bisects the sun?

The line that bisects (goes straight through) the sun.

AusGeoff, because you live so much further south than us, hopefully you can take part in this experiment. As you can see, since me and Rama Set close to each other with respect to latitude, we will have very similar angles. Let me know if you can do it too, and if you can show us your "FE prediction" or at least tell me your distance to the tropic so I can predict your FE azimuth, then on Dec. 21st take a few seconds out of the day to measure the angle.

This is an interesting experiment. A couple of points:

You're looking for the elevation angle of the Sun (angle to the center of the Sun above level), not the azimuth angle (angle from due north in the level plane). This should be obvious from context, but some folks here may not recognize this, or will pretend not to understand.

For the most accuracy, you want the elevation angle to the center of the Sun exactly at local solar noon. Since the apparent diameter of the Sun is only 1/2°, measuring to the top or bottom would be an error of only 1/4°. This is less than the error you will have using a simple protractor, so it can probably be ignored. If you know your local solar noon on that date, use that. If you're not sure, see if you can locate a way to tell when the Sun is directly south (or north) of you (azimuth 180° or 0°), and take your reading then. If Daylight Savings Time is in effect for your time zone, local solar noon will probably be closer to 1 PM than civil noon. Being a few minutes off probably won't make too much difference; if you're a little too early or too late your measured elevation angle will be slightly low. If you take several measurements and they're all accurate, the highest is the one you want.

Be careful not to look at the sun for too long, too. Maybe use a straw as an indicator for your protractor (with its base level, oriented in a vertical plane) and measure the angle where sunlight passes through its length looking at the straw's shadow to tell. Practice this for a few days first.

This is an interesting experiment. A couple of points:

You're looking for the elevation angle of the Sun (angle to the center of the Sun above level), not the azimuth angle (angle from due north in the level plane). This should be obvious from context, but some folks here may not recognize this, or will pretend not to understand.

For the most accuracy, you want the elevation angle to the center of the Sun exactly at local solar noon. Since the apparent diameter of the Sun is only 1/2°, measuring to the top or bottom would be an error of only 1/4°. This is less than the error you will have using a simple protractor, so it can probably be ignored. If you know your local solar noon on that date, use that. If you're not sure, see if you can locate a way to tell when the Sun is directly south (or north) of you (azimuth 180° or 0°), and take your reading then. If Daylight Savings Time is in effect for your time zone, local solar noon will probably be closer to 1 PM than civil noon. Being a few minutes off probably won't make too much difference; if you're a little too early or too late your measured elevation angle will be slightly low. If you take several measurements and they're all accurate, the highest is the one you want.

Be careful not to look at the sun for too long, too. Maybe use a straw as an indicator for your protractor (with its base level, oriented in a vertical plane) and measure the angle where sunlight passes through its length looking at the straw's shadow to tell. Practice this for a few days first.

Thank you, I have corrected the op's misuse of the word of azimuth and removed any mentions of the word to avoid confusion. I have also found a solar noon calculator so anyone who isn't sure of when to the measurement should use it.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/

I'll include a link to it in the original post as well.

OK why not. I live 5184 miles north of the Tropic of Capricorn.

According to FE model, at noon winter solstice the sun would be at the following elevation:

tan(elevation) = 3000/5184 = 0.5787
That gives me an elevation of 30°

According to RE model ( using this calculator http://www.sunearthtools.com/dp/tools/pos_sun.php), I should have an elevation of 15°

Let's see if the earth is flat or round

I want to emphasize that the straw method (see A2Os post) is the best way to do this.  Do not look at the sun directly.

I want to emphasize that the straw method (see A2Os post) is the best way to do this.  Do not look at the sun directly.

I dont really understand how the straw system works.  If someone could provide a diagram of the set up that would help greatly.

Position the straw until its shadow looks like a perfect ring (rather than an ellipse or line).

The angle of the straw is equal to the angle of the sun.

Longer and thinner the straw, the more accurate.

I'm going to be in Venezuela during the winter solstice, so I'll try my best at measuring it so we can have a more southern measurement.

I dont understand, where are all the FE'rs?

Jet: cool!

According to trig and Voliva's estimate of the height of the nearby sun, I get

atan(3000 mi / 4102 mi) = atan(0.7314)
 = 36.18°

Call it 36°.

As a lark, I asked the dateandtime.info site that answered the initial search for my distance to the north pole. Adding those numbers gave the distance from the NP to the Tropic of Capricorn as 7847 miles.

atan(3000 mi / 7847 mi) = atan(0.3823)
 = 20.92°

or about 21° above the horizon.  Conventional theory predicts the Sun will be about 23.5° below the horizon. Any wild guesses which will be closer?

I dont understand, where are all the FE'rs?

Someone proposed a way to see for themselves, so they're running for the hills.

Quote from: Lemmiwinks on December 10, 2014, 03:30:54 PM

I dont understand, where are all the FE'rs?

Someone proposed a way to see for themselves, so they're running for the hills.

Man, a little high school trig and the "Truth(tm)" falls apart. How sad for them.

I dont understand, where are all the FE'rs?

Whenever us RE'ers propose an experiment to invalidate FET or validate RET the FE'ers scatter. It's pretty funny actually, the same thing happened when I made a post about observing Jupiter and its moons to determine the legitimacy of Sceptimatic's reflection theory. They were no where to be found.

In my opinion, the Sun is nowhere NEAR 3000 miles up. It's more like 100-200 miles TOPS.

Take a look at this picture taken from a weather balloon at 110,000 Feet (~20 miles):



Look at the angle of the rays and the position of the Sun and you can see it's only about 100-200 miles up.

The Stars, on the other hand, are much higher up near the top of the Firmament.

You have to remember that the Sun doesn't take the same course every day, and has various routes throughout the year. The Book of Enoch explains the Sun's courses more thoroughly:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe075.htm

Here is a pretty good video explaining the angles of the Sun's rays on flat earth:
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

In my opinion, the Sun is nowhere NEAR 3000 miles up. It's more like 100-200 miles TOPS.

Take a look at this picture taken from a weather balloon at 110,000 Feet (~20 miles):



Look at the angle of the rays and the position of the Sun and you can see it's only about 100-200 miles up.

The Stars, on the other hand, are much higher up near the top of the Firmament.

You have to remember that the Sun doesn't take the same course every day, and has various routes throughout the year. The Book of Enoch explains the Sun's courses more thoroughly:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe075.htm

Here is a pretty good video explaining the angles of the Sun's rays on flat earth:
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

What is your evidence that the sun is 200 miles high?

The "sun rays" in that photo are just lens artifacts. That's why they look different with different lenses. You can't use them to measure anything.
As for angled sun ways: get a tube, get a lamp, shine light through tube at angle, watch the light change angles at the tube's exit. Light refracts depending on the angle of the medium its shining through (clouds in this case). Measuring the altitude of the sun using refraction rays is as stupid as taking measurements of an object using its reflection on a mirror. Try again.

A video of a weather balloon rising up high would only prove the sun is higher than 100-200 miles, since parallax obviously wouldn't be noticeable.

And if you took the time to read the page linked in the Book of Enoch above, you may have noticed the last verse which states, "37. As he rises, so he sets and decreases not, and rests not, but runs day and night, and his light is sevenfold brighter than that of the moon; but as regards size they are both equal."

You atheists just can handle the Truth in God's Word. Give it up shills, Jesus Christ is Lord.

From Nasa's website:

The Moon's size and distance contribute to a wonderful coincidence for those of us who live here on Earth. The Moon is about 400 times smaller than the Sun, but it also just happens to be about 400 times closer. The result is that from Earth, they appear to be the same size.

WRONG NASA idiots, they appear the same size because THEY ARE THE SAME SIZE MORONS. Geez Louise.

And if you took the time to read the page linked in the Book of Enoch above, you may have noticed the last verse which states, "37. As he rises, so he sets and decreases not, and rests not, but runs day and night, and his light is sevenfold brighter than that of the moon; but as regards size they are both equal."

You atheists just can handle the Truth in God's Word. Give it up shills, Jesus Christ is Lord.

From Nasa's website:

Quote

The Moon's size and distance contribute to a wonderful coincidence for those of us who live here on Earth. The Moon is about 400 times smaller than the Sun, but it also just happens to be about 400 times closer. The result is that from Earth, they appear to be the same size.

WRONG NASA idiots, they appear the same size because THEY ARE THE SAME SIZE MORONS. Geez Louise.

Considering around 80% of the US population is Christian, it sounds a bit hypocritical of you to be denouncing atheists who go against the grain and aren't gullible enough to give in to religion, kind of like how you say RE'ers are gullible and shills for giving in to RE.

So... if you're going to attempt (and fail) to use Christianity to prove FET- that's for another thread.

From Nasa's website:

Quote

The Moon's size and distance contribute to a wonderful coincidence for those of us who live here on Earth. The Moon is about 400 times smaller than the Sun, but it also just happens to be about 400 times closer. The result is that from Earth, they appear to be the same size.

WRONG NASA idiots, they appear the same size because THEY ARE THE SAME SIZE MORONS. Geez Louise.

Yes, because all things that appear to be the same size must be the same size.

It seems that those who use religion in order to prove a FET are only weakening it. The moon and the sun the same size? Are you kidding me? What about telescopes? Why do you need a stronger telescope to see the sun (with filter) than the moon?

In my opinion, the Sun is nowhere NEAR 3000 miles up. It's more like 100-200 miles TOPS.

Take a look at this picture taken from a weather balloon at 110,000 Feet (~20 miles):



Look at the angle of the rays and the position of the Sun and you can see it's only about 100-200 miles up.

The Stars, on the other hand, are much higher up near the top of the Firmament.

You have to remember that the Sun doesn't take the same course every day, and has various routes throughout the year. The Book of Enoch explains the Sun's courses more thoroughly:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe075.htm

Here is a pretty good video explaining the angles of the Sun's rays on flat earth:
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Okay say then do the math.

atan(200/[your distance from Capricorn]) = Angle

Test it on the solstice.

And if you took the time to read the page linked in the Book of Enoch above, you may have noticed the last verse which states, "37. As he rises, so he sets and decreases not, and rests not, but runs day and night, and his light is sevenfold brighter than that of the moon; but as regards size they are both equal."

You atheists just can handle the Truth in God's Word. Give it up shills, Jesus Christ is Lord.

From Nasa's website:

Quote

The Moon's size and distance contribute to a wonderful coincidence for those of us who live here on Earth. The Moon is about 400 times smaller than the Sun, but it also just happens to be about 400 times closer. The result is that from Earth, they appear to be the same size.

WRONG NASA idiots, they appear the same size because THEY ARE THE SAME SIZE MORONS. Geez Louise.

Just because your book says so, doesn't mean it is true. But don't worry brother, I can feel your frustration.

And if you took the time to read the page linked in the Book of Enoch above, you may have noticed the last verse which states, "37. As he rises, so he sets and decreases not, and rests not, but runs day and night, and his light is sevenfold brighter than that of the moon; but as regards size they are both equal."

You atheists just can handle the Truth in God's Word. Give it up shills, Jesus Christ is Lord.

From Nasa's website:

Quote

The Moon's size and distance contribute to a wonderful coincidence for those of us who live here on Earth. The Moon is about 400 times smaller than the Sun, but it also just happens to be about 400 times closer. The result is that from Earth, they appear to be the same size.

WRONG NASA idiots, they appear the same size because THEY ARE THE SAME SIZE MORONS. Geez Louise.

Soooo, are you going to be the only FE'r that does the experiment? Measure the angle of the sun on the solstice?

Because you know, if you are right, then the trig would say the sun was 200 miles up. It would be proven beyond a doubt.

5340 miles to the Tropic of Capricorn.

Atan(3000/5340) = 29.33°

I've got a protractor screwed to a stick which I've used to measure the angles to overhead wires so that I could calculate their height and work out the safe clearance for a mast. It worked, I didn't electrocute myself!

Just over a week to go!

I don't use a protractor as such, but one of these things set on a 1m spirit level...



Depending on the elevation of the sun, either the short side or the long side can be used to align the shadow from 0º to 90º—which runs along the centreline of the level.  It's also easy to sight along either side to align stars at night.

Weather permitting, you can also measure the length of the shadow produced by a vertical stick with a known height.