The Ice Wall Guardians and the conspiracy

From what I've read here on this site, the Flat Earth's circumference is around 75000 miles. Now to keep it a secret, they would have to post the fabled ''Ice Wall Guardians'' around this wall at say, 1 mile intervals. Unless my math is failing that means about 74 999 outposts.

    Now let's consider the facilities themselves. They would have to be well built bunkers with watch towers. Include state of the art computer monitored security systems, lighting as well as living quarters with heat, running water food and supplies to last. Add to that snowmobiles, 4x4's and a helipad. Let's not forget these guards need to be geared up with good equipment to withstand cold temperatures and of course, weaponry (with ammo to last) to kill ON SIGHT any who venture to near to get a view of the Ice Wall and illegally report it back to another civilian. We cannot assume they would station one single lonely Guardian, they would have to give him/her some buddies, say 4 of them for a grand total of 5 per outpost. I can hear the FE's crying that to be unreasonable so let's cut it down to 2 people per outpost.

    That's 74 999 x 2= 149 998 people to pay and silence as well as ALL their relatives who know about their ''little'' secret. Each outpost would cost in the millions at least. Say we cut costs and use the cheapest materials and equipment we get a figure of 1 000 000 including upkeep, and 1 000 000$ would make these outposts look like little shacks with old Pentium PC's and wood stoves for heating.

 74999 x 1 000 000 = 74 BILLION 999 000 000 million. We haven't even started paying our heroic Guardians.

Now I can't imagine anyone wanting to be posted out in the cold middle of nowhere for chicken feed but once again, let's be conservative about it and find the craziest drones for the job at around 30000/year. 30 000x 2 =60 000 x 74 999 = 4 billion 499 940 000 every year.

  All those costs is for the Ice Wall Guardians alone. We have yet to touch on the rest of the logistics to maintain said conspiracy. Let's keep that for another day, shall we? 

  This is starting to get expensive for a conspiracy that is supposed to be financially beneficial. 

     

There's no hope for you people, seriously.

There's no hope for you people, seriously.

It may be the other way around unfortunately. You see you spend a lot of time calling others indoctrinated or whatnot but I've found that flat-earthers in general do this as well as question round earthers more than explore the practical issues with the FE model, which is pretty weak to begin with. A rounder does not need to try very hard to expose the weaknesses of the FE model, it does a very good job of falling apart on its own.

 

I don't necessarily subscribe to the ice wall guard theory.  People take pictures of Antarctica all the time, which is what many FE'ers believe is this supposed "ice wall".  Why would it need to be guarded?  However, I think I can clear up some of your misconceptions, theearthisrounddealwithit.

I don't know where you came up with one guard post every mile.  Most countries monitor and guard their shorelines, but don't require a guard station every mile.  They do it with radar, ships, airplanes, and other means.  Heck, even if they were just using lookouts with binoculars, they could see much farther than one mile.  I think you pulled out the "a guard station every mile" from out of thin air. 

Also, you are claiming that nobody would want to be stationed there, when the rest of your RE buddies claim that there are people stationed there.

And last of all, I thought you people already believed that the shores of Antarctica are patrolled by ships from many different countries.

I hope this clears up some things for you. 

I don't necessarily subscribe to the ice wall guard theory.

I was simply going with what is said in thw wiki.
The fact that many FE-ers cannot agree on a number of issues, some of them crucial to their theory only weakens the whole idea even more, if it is at all possible. If it is not a wall, then what is it in your FET?

Why would it need to be guarded?

If it is an ice wall it would be crucial to guard it, one mile intervals being very VERY conservative if we are to maintain the conspiracy and the government monies as a benefit.

I think you pulled out the "a guard station every mile" from out of thin air.

This is a 75 000 mile border your talking about. To maintain the gigantic conspiracy, one every mile may not even be enough. Heck they have trouble with border jumpers along USA-Mexico line, you think people wouldn't be able to make it to the edge of the disc?

Also, you are claiming that nobody would want to be stationed there, when the rest of your RE buddies claim that there are people stationed there.

If you are talking about Antarctica, then yes there are people statinned there. Scientists and whatnot conducting research. I am sure they are well compensated. Others may be adventurers of kinds who want to get to the South Pole. Again, I was going with the somewhat accepted idea that there is a ring of ice surrounding the disc and watched by the Wall Guardians.

And last of all, I thought you people already believed that the shores of Antarctica are patrolled by ships from many different countries.

That is indeed what not only I believe but is also the truth. I am poking holes in the idea of a guarded 75 000 mile ide wall. It is an idea that is believe within the FE community and I was pointing out very conservative figures related to the logistics.

The Ice Wall Guard Theory started as a joke.  More likely it's the extreme weather conditions that keep people away from the edge.

The Ice Wall Guard Theory started as a joke.  More likely it's the extreme weather conditions that keep people away from the edge.

It's mentioned in the wiki. Is the wiki a joke, too? It sure looks like it.

The whole site is a joke, isn't it?

I don't know exactly what the exact circumference of the ice wall is, but let's go with your 75,000 mile number.

Canada has almost 125,000 miles of coastline, and they do not seem to have much trouble guarding it.  When was the last time Canada got invaded?

Also, there have been expeditions to find the edge of the Earth.  Sadly, people have died attempting this.  Andrea Barns is a famous example.

And please, ausGeoff, give the new person a chance to do some research before you chime in to try to turn this into a debate. 

The Ice Wall Guard Theory started as a joke. More likely it's the extreme weather conditions that keep people away from the edge.

That is even more absurd than the Ice Wall being guarded. Do you really think that today, in 2014 we do not have the technology to overcome bad weather conditions?

I don't know exactly what the exact circumference of the ice wall is, but let's go with your 75,000 mile number.

Canada has almost 125,000 miles of coastline, and they do not seem to have much trouble guarding it.  When was the last time Canada got invaded?

Also, there have been expeditions to find the edge of the Earth.  Sadly, people have died attempting this.  Andrea Barns is a famous example.

And please, ausGeoff, give the new person a chance to do some research before you chime in to try to turn this into a debate.

''In Search of the Edge'' is nothing more than a school project. There is no proof that this Andrea Barns even existed.

Canada does not get invaded but like many countries it has a problem called illegal immigrants.  If people can sneak into a country, why couldn't they sneak their way to the edge of the disc if it is not thoroughly guarded?

Canada has almost 125,000 miles of coastline, and they do not seem to have much trouble guarding it.

People enter Canada every day without the authorities noticing.

  When was the last time Canada got invaded?

Who is talking about an invasion?  Anyway not the best example you could choose. There have been 5 invasion attempts on Canada, all were successful.   So, every time someone has attempted to invade Canada, they have succeeded.

The USA has lots of border controls, yet 750,000 people enter illegally every year.

Quote from: jroa on December 09, 2014, 07:58:49 AM

I don't know exactly what the exact circumference of the ice wall is, but let's go with your 75,000 mile number.

Canada has almost 125,000 miles of coastline, and they do not seem to have much trouble guarding it.  When was the last time Canada got invaded?

Also, there have been expeditions to find the edge of the Earth.  Sadly, people have died attempting this.  Andrea Barns is a famous example.

And please, ausGeoff, give the new person a chance to do some research before you chime in to try to turn this into a debate.

''In Search of the Edge'' is nothing more than a school project. There is no proof that this Andrea Barns even existed.

Canada does not get invaded but like many countries it has a problem called illegal immigrants.  If people can sneak into a country, why couldn't they sneak their way to the edge of the disc if it is not thoroughly guarded?

Do you think that someone could just come ashore onto Antarctica in a row boat, and sneak their way to the edge, like Mexicans coming across the Texas border?  Don't you realize how much equipment this would actually require and how much money these "immigrants" would need to invest? 

We are currently raising money for another expedition.  Would you like to contribute? 

Quote from: jroa on December 09, 2014, 07:58:49 AM

Canada has almost 125,000 miles of coastline, and they do not seem to have much trouble guarding it.

People enter Canada every day without the authorities noticing.

Quote

  When was the last time Canada got invaded?

Who is talking about an invasion?  Anyway not the best example you could choose. There have been 5 invasion attempts on Canada, all were successful.   So, every time someone has attempted to invade Canada, they have succeeded.

The USA has lots of border controls, yet 750,000 people enter illegally every year.

Has Canada been invaded since the light bulb was invented? 

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on December 09, 2014, 08:41:16 AM

Quote from: jroa on December 09, 2014, 07:58:49 AM

Canada has almost 125,000 miles of coastline, and they do not seem to have much trouble guarding it.

People enter Canada every day without the authorities noticing.

Quote

  When was the last time Canada got invaded?

Who is talking about an invasion?  Anyway not the best example you could choose. There have been 5 invasion attempts on Canada, all were successful.   So, every time someone has attempted to invade Canada, they have succeeded.

The USA has lots of border controls, yet 750,000 people enter illegally every year.

Has Canada been invaded since the light bulb was invented?

Is this date of some significance to you

Quote from: jroa on December 09, 2014, 08:45:43 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on December 09, 2014, 08:41:16 AM

Quote from: jroa on December 09, 2014, 07:58:49 AM

Canada has almost 125,000 miles of coastline, and they do not seem to have much trouble guarding it.

People enter Canada every day without the authorities noticing.

Quote

  When was the last time Canada got invaded?

Who is talking about an invasion?  Anyway not the best example you could choose. There have been 5 invasion attempts on Canada, all were successful.   So, every time someone has attempted to invade Canada, they have succeeded.

The USA has lots of border controls, yet 750,000 people enter illegally every year.

Has Canada been invaded since the light bulb was invented?

Is this date of some significance to you

You do realize that the light bulb preceded RADAR and airplanes, right? 

Quote from: theearthisrounddealwithit on December 09, 2014, 08:19:57 AM

Quote from: jroa on December 09, 2014, 07:58:49 AM

I don't know exactly what the exact circumference of the ice wall is, but let's go with your 75,000 mile number.

Canada has almost 125,000 miles of coastline, and they do not seem to have much trouble guarding it.  When was the last time Canada got invaded?

Also, there have been expeditions to find the edge of the Earth.  Sadly, people have died attempting this.  Andrea Barns is a famous example.

And please, ausGeoff, give the new person a chance to do some research before you chime in to try to turn this into a debate.

''In Search of the Edge'' is nothing more than a school project. There is no proof that this Andrea Barns even existed.

Canada does not get invaded but like many countries it has a problem called illegal immigrants.  If people can sneak into a country, why couldn't they sneak their way to the edge of the disc if it is not thoroughly guarded?

Do you think that someone could just come ashore onto Antarctica in a row boat, and sneak their way to the edge, like Mexicans coming across the Texas border? Don't you realize how much equipment this would actually require and how much money these "immigrants" would need to invest? 

We are currently raising money for another expedition.  Would you like to contribute?

You do know this is 2014 and people have the resources to do so, don't you?

Also, why would I contribute to prove something that I know already exists?

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on December 09, 2014, 09:00:24 AM

Quote from: jroa on December 09, 2014, 08:45:43 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on December 09, 2014, 08:41:16 AM

Quote from: jroa on December 09, 2014, 07:58:49 AM

Canada has almost 125,000 miles of coastline, and they do not seem to have much trouble guarding it.

People enter Canada every day without the authorities noticing.

Quote

  When was the last time Canada got invaded?

Who is talking about an invasion?  Anyway not the best example you could choose. There have been 5 invasion attempts on Canada, all were successful.   So, every time someone has attempted to invade Canada, they have succeeded.

The USA has lots of border controls, yet 750,000 people enter illegally every year.

Has Canada been invaded since the light bulb was invented?

Is this date of some significance to you

You do realize that the light bulb preceded RADAR and airplanes, right?

Is there some point to this potted history of technology?

Quote from: Pongo on December 09, 2014, 07:40:20 AM

The Ice Wall Guard Theory started as a joke.  More likely it's the extreme weather conditions that keep people away from the edge.

It's mentioned in the wiki. Is the wiki a joke, too? It sure looks like it.

Perhaps, I've never read the wiki.

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on December 09, 2014, 07:47:30 AM

Quote from: Pongo on December 09, 2014, 07:40:20 AM

The Ice Wall Guard Theory started as a joke.  More likely it's the extreme weather conditions that keep people away from the edge.

It's mentioned in the wiki. Is the wiki a joke, too? It sure looks like it.

Perhaps, I've never read the wiki.

Really?

You link to several illustrations in it in the FAQ here. The links are broken now  , but they all referred to theflatearthsociety.org/wiki.



The three broken links are:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/a/a1/Seasons.png
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/6/63/FlatEarthErasmus.png
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/4/43/Map.png

Do you care to explain how this can be? Was Lord Wilmore setting you up, maybe as a parting shot?

Many, if not all, of the wiki-hosted images all appear to be 404. You're a moderator and surely know the admins, you may want to look into this if you give a rap about what your site looks like.

Quote from: Pongo on December 09, 2014, 07:40:20 AM

The Ice Wall Guard Theory started as a joke.  More likely it's the extreme weather conditions that keep people away from the edge.

It's mentioned in the wiki. Is the wiki a joke, too? It sure looks like it.

The whole site is a joke, isn't it?

Pretty much the general consensus about the joke

I think there is something about the ice wall temperature at or near absolute zero.

We are currently raising money for another expedition.  Would you like to contribute?

I strongly suggest canceling your expedition.  There is a 100% chance of death for everyone involved.  Whether it's armed guards or absolute zero temperature, one way or the other the edge will get you.

Quote from: Pongo on December 09, 2014, 07:50:35 PM

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on December 09, 2014, 07:47:30 AM

Quote from: Pongo on December 09, 2014, 07:40:20 AM

The Ice Wall Guard Theory started as a joke.  More likely it's the extreme weather conditions that keep people away from the edge.

It's mentioned in the wiki. Is the wiki a joke, too? It sure looks like it.

Perhaps, I've never read the wiki.

Really?

You link to several illustrations in it in the FAQ here. The links are broken now  , but they all referred to theflatearthsociety.org/wiki.



The three broken links are:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/a/a1/Seasons.png
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/6/63/FlatEarthErasmus.png
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/4/43/Map.png

Do you care to explain how this can be? Was Lord Wilmore setting you up, maybe as a parting shot?

Many, if not all, of the wiki-hosted images all appear to be 404. You're a moderator and surely know the admins, you may want to look into this if you give a rap about what your site looks like.

I wrote a condensed version of the FAQ once. It's very different than exaustively reading the wiki. It's like expecting an encyclopedia writer whose written one article to have read the entire encyclopedia.

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on December 09, 2014, 08:41:48 PM

Quote from: Pongo on December 09, 2014, 07:50:35 PM

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on December 09, 2014, 07:47:30 AM

Quote from: Pongo on December 09, 2014, 07:40:20 AM

The Ice Wall Guard Theory started as a joke.  More likely it's the extreme weather conditions that keep people away from the edge.

It's mentioned in the wiki. Is the wiki a joke, too? It sure looks like it.

Perhaps, I've never read the wiki.

Really?

You link to several illustrations in it in the FAQ here. The links are broken now  , but they all referred to theflatearthsociety.org/wiki.

<screenshot of FAQ page with broken wiki links>

The three broken links are:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/a/a1/Seasons.png
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/6/63/FlatEarthErasmus.png
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/4/43/Map.png

Do you care to explain how this can be? Was Lord Wilmore setting you up, maybe as a parting shot?

Many, if not all, of the wiki-hosted images all appear to be 404. You're a moderator and surely know the admins, you may want to look into this if you give a rap about what your site looks like.

I wrote a condensed version of the FAQ once. It's very different than exaustively reading the wiki. It's like expecting an encyclopedia writer whose written one article to have read the entire encyclopedia.

You first said you never read the wiki. Now you say you never exhaustively read it. So you've read it some, but not a lot? The FE Wiki is considerably shorter than an encyclopedia, so your analogy isn't really apt.

Can you check into all those broken links? If the illustrations were important enough to link to from the FAQs, shouldn't they be restored? Wasn't someone recently snarking about some equipment supplier's website not being up to date, and that was suspicious for some reason (I think it was an airborne SATCOM antenna vendor)? Should we be suspicious that TFES is up to no good because their website has obsolete links?

Honestly, I can't recall reading any of it.  The wiki came out after I had already been here for years.  I was already a flat-earther and I was familiar with all the arguments concerning a flat-earth.  I condensed the FAQ once, with the help of others mind you, and used pics that were linked from the original FAQ.  I did not search the wiki for these pics, they were already linked in the version that I condensed.

All that being said, the wiki has been around for years and I may have skimmed an article or two, but I don't recall.  Hell, I may have even written one; I did have access.

If you consider taking pic links from one FAQ to another and perhaps skimming/writing an article that I cannot recall doing as "having read the wiki," then I suppose I'm guilty.

However, to follow this logic, we must conclude that all English speaking persons have read the "Bible", all American's have read "The American Constitution," most warm blooded people on the planet have read San Tzu's the "Art of War," Homer's "The Odyssey," and the Scandinavian epic, "Beowulf."  And, not only have they read them, but they are experts in everything that they say.




***Note: Pics fixed in the FAQ.

Honestly, I can't recall reading any of it.  The wiki came out after I had already been here for years.  I was already a flat-earther and I was familiar with all the arguments concerning a flat-earth.  I condensed the FAQ once, with the help of others mind you, and used pics that were linked from the original FAQ.  I did not search the wiki for these pics, they were already linked in the version that I condensed.

All that being said, the wiki has been around for years and I may have skimmed an article or two, but I don't recall.  Hell, I may have even written one; I did have access.

If you consider taking pic links from one FAQ to another and perhaps skimming/writing an article that I cannot recall doing as "having read the wiki," then I suppose I'm guilty.

However, to follow this logic, we must conclude that all English speaking persons have read the "Bible", all American's have read "The American Constitution," most warm blooded people on the planet have read San Tzu's the "Art of War," Homer's "The Odyssey," and the Scandinavian epic, "Beowulf."  And, not only have they read them, but they are experts in everything that they say.




***Note: Pics fixed in the FAQ.

That's actually a pretty good clarification. Thanks, and thanks for fixing the pix.

I disagree with your logic in the last paragraph. For instance, I would expect all American politicians to have read the US Constitution (it seems clear that there's a distinction between reading and understanding it), but not every American citizen to have (they all should, but I have no such illusions). Along similar lines, I would expect all of the "officials" (admins and mods) here to be at least familiar with the sort of stuff in the wiki since it's encouraged that newcomers read it. Apparently not. [I intend no slander - either way - mentioning you and politicians in the same paragraph. Please don't take offense!]