The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence

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Flat earthers on this forum are fond of telling round earthers that we have no right to cite as evidence things that we have not seen with our own eyes.  With this approach, they dismiss the existence of the foundations of astronomy, aerospace engineering, the Apollo program, the International Space Station, all satellites, satellite imagery, and the list goes on.

Yet none of the flat earthers on this forum have ever personally witnessed any of the most important aspects of their own theory.  Some examples:

- They insists the Earth is surrounded by an ice wall but they have never seen it.
- Some of them believe the ice wall is guarded by NASA agents with shoot-to-kill orders, but these agents have never been seen by anyone.
- Some of them believe in an ice dome, but no one has ever claimed to have seen it.
- They insist the earth is disc-shaped,  but they have never seen the side of the disk or the bottom.
- They believe in a "shadow object" that is responsible for eclipses, but they haven't seen it, and they can't name anyone that has seen it.

So, flat earthers, please explain how you justify believing things without having seen them yourself, while you ridicule us for doing the same?
Sceptimatic is a proven liar - he claims to have authored several books but won't reveal their names.

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Misero

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  • Of course it's flat. It looks that way up close.
Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2014, 05:29:05 PM »
Quick answer. They don't. They don't justify with anything but non-answers or stupid comebacks. Where's YOUR evidence FE? Give it to us.
I am the worst moderator ever.

Sometimes I wonder: "Why am  I on this site?"
Then I look at threads about clouds not existing and I go back to posting and lurking. Lurk moar.

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robintex

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Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2014, 06:04:06 PM »
Quick answer. They don't. They don't justify with anything but non-answers or stupid comebacks. Where's YOUR evidence FE? Give it to us.

Flat earthers, especially one who calls himself a moderator is an example of the conduct of flat earthers. He just asks for it. Granted a lot of round earthers join in the back and forth comments and comebacks along those lines. But I think it is  hypocritical to call round earth comebacks as "not in the upper flora."
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

Jet Fission

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Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2014, 06:12:34 PM »
Thank you for making this post. This is always on my head whenever the FE'ers bring up the whole "have you seen x for yourself?"
To a flat earth theorist, being a "skeptic" is to have confirmation bias.
Just because I'm a genius doesn't mean I know everything.

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robintex

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Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2014, 03:43:08 PM »
Thank you for making this post. This is always on my head whenever the FE'ers bring up the whole "have you seen x for yourself?"

I think it is also rather hypocritcal of the flat earthers in the subject of proper etiquet and behavior on a website, especially those of some of the moderators.

I also think you could turn that old "have you seen x for yourself ?" around in the case of their old "All NASA pictures are fakes." The question for the flat earthers is "If you have never seen these for yourself how do know whether they are fakes or not ?" Also if you have never seen the ice ring how do you know it is for real ?" LOL
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

mikeman7918

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Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2014, 10:07:11 AM »
LOL, still no flat earthers here.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2014, 10:23:55 AM »
Flat earthers on this forum are fond of telling round earthers that we have no right to cite as evidence things that we have not seen with our own eyes.
Nobody tells you, you have no right. You get told that you are mistaken in your beliefs or that some are simply following a trend.

With this approach, they dismiss the existence of the foundations of astronomy, aerospace engineering, the Apollo program, the International Space Station, all satellites, satellite imagery, and the list goes on.
That's because none of it can be verified as a physical truth, no matter how much you scream about it.

Yet none of the flat earthers on this forum have ever personally witnessed any of the most important aspects of their own theory.  Some examples:
Of course but then again, nor have you people, so it's down to how things fit better and why things cannot be verified due to so called security aspects tied to everything that could prove the truth of what's really happening.


- They insists the Earth is surrounded by an ice wall but they have never seen it.
Nor have you. It doesn't mean it's not there.

- Some of them believe the ice wall is guarded by NASA agents with shoot-to-kill orders, but these agents have never been seen by anyone.
If the policy is shoot to kill then maybe they have been seen but their policy of shoot to kill, actually killed those that saw it all.


- Some of them believe in an ice dome, but no one has ever claimed to have seen it.
Birds don't see windows when they fly into them. The dome is way up in the sky and we are little beings with tiny eyes and optics.


- They insist the earth is disc-shaped,  but they have never seen the side of the disk or the bottom.
Just like you have never seen inside the full Earth yet you go on about a molten iron core and all the rest of it.


- They believe in a "shadow object" that is responsible for eclipses, but they haven't seen it, and they can't name anyone that has seen it.
We have seen it. It causes the eclipses.


So, flat earthers, please explain how you justify believing things without having seen them yourself, while you ridicule us for doing the same?
The same way you all seem to justify all your stuff without ever seeing it in physical terms.
Pictures in books and videos, plus storylines are proof of nothing.
Flash Gordon done a lot of things in space. Is that real? if not, why not?
Is it because it was told as a fantasy so it is that whilst the stuff you follow is real because it is told as that?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 10:27:24 AM by sceptimatic »

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Jet Fission

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Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2014, 01:01:51 PM »
Nor have you. It doesn't mean it's not there.

This sentence pretty much sums up your position. It true, it does not mean it's not there. But it doesn't mean it is either.

I could use the same logic with the Earth's molten core. It's true we haven't seen it, but it doesn't mean it's not there. Therefore it is.




To a flat earth theorist, being a "skeptic" is to have confirmation bias.
Just because I'm a genius doesn't mean I know everything.

Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2014, 02:05:10 PM »
Nor have you. It doesn't mean it's not there.

So if I claim that something exists and I admit that no one has ever seen it, that's evidence that it exists?!  No one has ever seen a unicorn, so I guess they exist.
Sceptimatic is a proven liar - he claims to have authored several books but won't reveal their names.

Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2014, 02:21:15 PM »
- Some of them believe the ice wall is guarded by NASA agents with shoot-to-kill orders, but these agents have never been seen by anyone.
If the policy is shoot to kill then maybe they have been seen but their policy of shoot to kill, actually killed those that saw it all.

This kind of response must be quite embarrassing to other flat earthers.  Maybe it's time for you guys to try to earn a little credibility by telling Sceptimatic that you think he is an idiot.  He is the only flat earther to give a response to the current topic, which makes it appear that you accept his theories as the collective response of the flat earth community. And maybe that's the case. Maybe you all think that NASA guards have shot people to death for getting too close to the ice wall (and then the guards killed the explorers' families before they could report the disappearance).  But if you don't believe these things, you should call out Scepti and put him in his place.
Sceptimatic is a proven liar - he claims to have authored several books but won't reveal their names.

Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2014, 11:30:38 PM »
Maybe you all think that NASA guards have shot people to death for getting too close to the ice wall (and then the guards killed the explorers' families before they could report the disappearance). 
You're making the assumptions that 1) no one ever reported it, and 2) anyone would even bother to do so.
Point two seems unlikely. If I had a relative that went off looking for the Ice Wall, I can't even imagine how long it would be before I found their absence to be odd.

The answer seems okay to me.  If NASA has people stationed every mile along the wall, and they kill everyone, then you would be hard pressed to find anyone that had ever seen the wall. (excepting the guards themselves, of course)
That is, however, an insane number of people standing around doing nothing most of the time.
And I do not quite understand why NASA is the one involved here. They aren't military for one thing.  They're American for another, and I would assume an Ice Wall defense would need to be a planetary effort.  An Ice Wall Guardian force, like the U.N. but with only a single purpose.  And actually useful.

Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2014, 05:22:49 AM »
Maybe you all think that NASA guards have shot people to death for getting too close to the ice wall (and then the guards killed the explorers' families before they could report the disappearance). 
You're making the assumptions that 1) no one ever reported it, and 2) anyone would even bother to do so.
Point two seems unlikely. If I had a relative that went off looking for the Ice Wall, I can't even imagine how long it would be before I found their absence to be odd.

The answer seems okay to me.  If NASA has people stationed every mile along the wall, and they kill everyone, then you would be hard pressed to find anyone that had ever seen the wall. (excepting the guards themselves, of course)
That is, however, an insane number of people standing around doing nothing most of the time.
And I do not quite understand why NASA is the one involved here. They aren't military for one thing.  They're American for another, and I would assume an Ice Wall defense would need to be a planetary effort.  An Ice Wall Guardian force, like the U.N. but with only a single purpose.  And actually useful.

LOL You have got to be kidding me. An Ice Wall Guardian force. Could make for a good comic book.

The Ice wall as well as the ''conspiracy'' are the 2 most ridiculous claims by the FES as well as very poorly supported with absolutely zero evidence. The world as we know it has been charted, photographed and well documented over hundreds of years.

  As for posting guards along every mile of the ice wall, it looks like another gargantuan cost at the expense of taxpayers, making the financial benefit for the conspirators even smaller. (Not to mention the cost of silencing them AND their families.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28337
Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2014, 05:41:42 AM »
No wonder round Earther's can't grasp anything. They can't even decipher the if's and but's of stuff.

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rottingroom

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Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2014, 05:53:36 AM »
No wonder round Earther's can't grasp anything. They can't even decipher the if's and but's of stuff.

You do realize that the conclusions that follows an if statement depends on the premises that preceda being true right?

Also, let's not forget that you don't know what these represent:

<
>
π

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Pongo

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Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2014, 07:44:49 AM »
Personally, I think that it's hypocritical that round-earthers demand evidence without ever providing anything of their own.  That is to exclude the paltry evidence of what they think is a pic of a round earth they found at the conclusion of a .0003 second Google search.

Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2014, 08:52:08 AM »
Personally, I think that it's hypocritical that round-earthers demand evidence without ever providing anything of their own. 

Evidence has been provided in abundance. Your choosing to ignore it doesn't change that at all.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2014, 09:36:50 AM »
Personally, I think that it's hypocritical that round-earthers demand evidence without ever providing anything of their own.  That is to exclude the paltry evidence of what they think is a pic of a round earth they found at the conclusion of a .0003 second Google search.

Evidence for a round earth includes personal accounts from many astronauts, from thousands of astronomers, from thousands of aerospace engineers.  You can attempt to dispute their statements, but at least we can name a lot of witnesses that have gone on record with their eye witness accounts, work and research.  On the other hand, flat earthers have nothing but speculation.  You can't name anyone who has taken or seen a photo that provides evidence for a flat earth.  You can't name anyone that claims to have traveled to the edge of the earth, etc.  You have nothing but wild, unsupported theories.
Sceptimatic is a proven liar - he claims to have authored several books but won't reveal their names.

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robintex

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Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2014, 05:35:55 PM »
Maybe you all think that NASA guards have shot people to death for getting too close to the ice wall (and then the guards killed the explorers' families before they could report the disappearance). 
You're making the assumptions that 1) no one ever reported it, and 2) anyone would even bother to do so.
Point two seems unlikely. If I had a relative that went off looking for the Ice Wall, I can't even imagine how long it would be before I found their absence to be odd.

The answer seems okay to me.  If NASA has people stationed every mile along the wall, and they kill everyone, then you would be hard pressed to find anyone that had ever seen the wall. (excepting the guards themselves, of course)
That is, however, an insane number of people standing around doing nothing most of the time.
And I do not quite understand why NASA is the one involved here. They aren't military for one thing.  They're American for another, and I would assume an Ice Wall defense would need to be a planetary effort.  An Ice Wall Guardian force, like the U.N. but with only a single purpose.  And actually useful.

LOL You have got to be kidding me. An Ice Wall Guardian force. Could make for a good comic book.

The Ice wall as well as the ''conspiracy'' are the 2 most ridiculous claims by the FES as well as very poorly supported with absolutely zero evidence. The world as we know it has been charted, photographed and well documented over hundreds of years.

 As for posting guards along every mile of the ice wall, it looks like another gargantuan cost at the expense of taxpayers, making the financial benefit for the conspirators even smaller. (Not to mention the cost of silencing them AND their families .

Consider this :
The circumference of the ice wall is estimated at 37,000 miles. If each guard worked 24/7 the whole year around that would take 37,000 guard if they were posted a mile apart. Just think how many guards it would take if they worked on eight hour shifts. They would also need support groups for food and lodging. The numbers involved would be mind boggling. LOL.Evidently all of the families involved would have to be sworn to secrecy. That explains why we never hear about the NASA guards.

Also the question of who guarded the ice wall before NASA ? Maybe the ice wall is really guarded by aliens - you know, "Extra Terrestrials" like "E.T." - and those who get too close to the wall aren't shot - They are just taken prisoner  and whisked off to Planet Krypton.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 05:48:11 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

robintex

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Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2014, 05:52:05 PM »
Personally, I think that it's hypocritical that round-earthers demand evidence without ever providing anything of their own. 

Evidence has been provided in abundance. Your choosing to ignore it doesn't change that at all.

You are speaking of reality. I think this is an unknown word in the flat earth vocabulary.
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

ausGeoff

  • 6091
Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2014, 07:49:28 AM »
Personally, I think that it's hypocritical that round-earthers demand evidence without ever providing anything of their own.  That is to exclude the paltry evidence of what they think is a pic of a round earth they found at the conclusion of a .0003 second Google search.

Uh... you're missing the whole point of this thread Pongo.

We're debating the fact that you flat earthers never provide any empirical evidence to support your flat earth model or your map, while claiming that the evidence we do supply to support our spherical model is bogus.

It's therefore not a matter of disputing our evidence, but rather a matter of you providing some of your own.  And which you've yet to do.

You may want to start off by posting some photos of your flat earth taken from a  plane at 70,000 feet, or some of your ice wall and its guards, or some of the sun at various parts of its alleged orbit across the skies, or even some of the Apollo Mission mockups on the secret sound stages in Area 51.

—You can't win a debate simply by declaring your opponent's claims erroneous;  you have to supply counter-evidence to support your claims.

Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2014, 08:27:41 PM »
ATTENTION ALL ROUND EARTHERS: TO REFUTE ANY FLAT EARTHER, SIMPLY ASK THEM TO REFUTE THE FOLLOWING:

Refute all points below or you concede that a flat Earth is outright ludicrous.

1. One of the oldest proofs of the Earth's shape can be seen from the ground and occurs during every lunar eclipse. The geometry of a lunar eclipse has been known since ancient Greece. When a full Moon occurs in the plane of Earth's orbit, the Moon slowly moves through Earth's shadow. Every time that shadow is seen, its edge is round. Once again, the only solid that always projects a round shadow is a sphere. Why does the Earth project a round shadow on the moon?

2. Since the earth is rotating (see the “Foucault Pendulum” experiment for a definite proof, if you are doubtful), the consistent oval-shadow it produces in each and every lunar eclipse proves that the earth is not only round but spherical – absolutely, utterly, beyond a shadow of a doubt not flat.

3. It has been suggested that seafarers probably provided the first observational evidence that the Earth was not flat, based on observations of the horizon. This argument was put forward by the geographer Strabo (c. 64 BC – 24 AD), who suggested that the spherical shape of the Earth was probably known to seafarers around the Mediterranean Sea since at least the time of Homer, citing a line from the Odyssey as indicating that the poet Homer knew of this as early as the 7th or 8th century BC. Strabo cited various phenomena observed at sea as suggesting that the Earth was spherical. He observed that elevated lights or areas of land were visible to sailors at greater distances than those less elevated, and stated that the curvature of the sea was obviously responsible for this. For example, when a ship is at the horizon, its lower part is invisible due to Earth's curvature. This was one of the first arguments favoring a round-Earth model.

4. A plane can literally circle the Earth... As can a boat.

5. You can see the curvature of the earth if you just stand on a beach and look out over the water...

THERE ARE LITERALLY DOZENS OF SIMPLE EXPERIMENTS YOU CAN DO AT HOME TO PROVE THE EARTH IS ROUND. SIMPLY GOOGLE "STICK EXPERIMENT", "HOW TO PROVE THE EARTH IS ROUND", ETC.

Re: The flat earth community's hypocrital stance on standards of evidence
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2014, 08:34:21 PM »
Thank you for making this post. This is always on my head whenever the FE'ers bring up the whole "have you seen x for yourself?"

Round Earthers and Flat Earthers, we CAN see "x" for ourselves... There are a multitude of simple experiments one can do to prove it. I have literally seen the curvature of the earth when i stand at the beach and look out at the ocean. What's more, I have been in airplane rides that went around the earth.