# GLOBAL CONSPIRACY

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#### cikljamas

• 2174
• Ex nihilo nihil fit
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #990 on: February 14, 2015, 04:50:25 AM »
You should be banned for all of those copy and pastes. They are annoying. Respond to a few things at a time. No one is going to read that.

My animations are only ridiculous to you because they show the truth. No, both sides of the Earth are more or less equal in night time and in daylight.

I explained this many times, but i will do it once more for you:

1. If there is no rotation of the Earth, then there is no TILT of the Earth!
2. If there is no TILT of the Earth, then there is no way for anyone to explain how it happens (how this phenomena can occur on a round Earth)  that longer (than 12 hours) lenghts of a daylight could appear anywhere on the Earth at any given period of the year.

Did you forget this:

Crushing the pillars of a Heliocentric theory : http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62346.msg1645003#msg1645003

P.S. You should be banned for ignoring my arguments all along, and in the same time you are unable to show us at least one valid proof for any of your ridiculous claims. Just give us one valid proof for the rotation of the Earth and you can declare victory. On the other hand, if you are unable to do that, then why don't you just leave this place voluntarily and for good?

Rotation/revolution of the Earth is the final and decisive "TO BE OR NOT TO BE" question of all questions here!

My ZIGZAG argument is 100 % proof against the rotation of the Earth hypothesis!!!

You see, i have got a proof for my claims, and you have nothing to offer here, so figure out what you should do now, even without anyone's (moderator's) assistance...
We've presented you with two models for how both of your scenarios are perfectly possible in a round Earth, and you didn't listen. We've also proved it mathematically.

1. Why not? It's tilted in relation to its orbital plane. It rotates around an axis, and that axis is not perpendicular to Earth's orbital plane. It's as simple as that.
2. See 1.

@ Mikey T Lovzballs, i would like to leave just one little comment on your stupid posts:

Quote
1. Why not? It's tilted in relation to its orbital plane. It rotates around an axis, and that axis is not perpendicular to Earth's orbital plane. It's as simple as that.

This is utterly stupid, exactly so stupid as i would expect of you!

If the Earth is at rest then the Sun travels above the equator and above the tropic of cancer and tropic of capricorn and along (above) various paths in between these two tropics (ecliptic-analema).

So, if the Sun travels travels along these lines, what would be the point of your alleged tilt of the Earth?

Celestial Equator is aligned with the Earth's Equator, not with Sun's Equator, isn't that interesting? Don't you know what it means? It means that in heliocentric theory the Earth is not tilted with respect to the stars, but with respect to the Sun (your "orbital plane" is referring to the alleged Earth's orbit around the Sun)!

The earth is NOT TILTED 23.45°degrees....It is UPRIGHT as God created man to walk UPRIGHT. The tilted earth probably came from Galileo as he looked through the telescope and saw that some of the planets were tilted in their orbits around the sun. A tilted EARTH could be an explanation for the seasons, he reasoned, as people were still apt to ask difficult questions about the reason for the seasons!!

In order to cut your suffering, i am going to remind you that even Alpha2Omega acknowledged that if we took away your holly heliocentric grail which is alleged tilt of the Earth the whole heliocentric theory would fall to pieces immediately.

Heliocentric "astronomers" greatly exaggerate the size of the solar system and the universe. They make the universe so big that it cannot possibly orbit the earth in 24 hours.

Take the sun for example, the ancient Greeks said that the sun was only about 3,000,000 miles (4,828.032 km) from the earth. This was the number given by Ptolemy and the great Arab astronomer al-Battani. Even Copernicus in his book On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Spheres. gives the number at about 3,000,000 miles. The rotating earth people stuck a 9 in front of the 3 and with this mathematical sleight of hand we have a sun whose distance from the earth is exaggerated 30 times!!

You can search all 29 volumes of this final authority on all scientific matters (Encyclopedia Britannica) but you will look in vain for any PROOF for this revolution of the earth around the sun and its spinning on its axis every 24 hours. It is simply stated as DOGMA and to doubt is to be damned to a spinning hell forever by the "scientific" community.

Many "astronomers" cite the Foucault pendulum experiment that was carried out in Paris in 1851 as PROOF that the earth turns. It's a pity that the NASA space program has not provided them with more recent proof. Here is a quote from a 36-year veteran of the space program with a Ph.D., in astronomy from the University of Michigan:

Proof of Earth's turning, or rotation, didn't come until 1851, more than two millennia after Heraclides (researchers didn't have much government funding back then, so progress was slow). The proof came from a big French swinger: a heavy metal ball suspended from the ceiling above the floor of the Pantheon (a church) in Paris on a 200-foot wire. The ball is called a Foucault pendulum, after the French physicist who came up with the plan. If you kept an eye on the pendulum as it swung back and forth all day, you could see that the direction taken by the swinging ball across the floor gradually changed, as though the floor was turning underneath it. (Maran, Astronomy for Dummies, p. 42).

The Foucault Pendulum remains the only "proof" for a rotating earth. (in 21th century!!!)

This is a geocentric model:

I repeat:

If there is no TILT of the Earth, then there is no way for anyone to explain how it happens (how this phenomena can occur on a round Earth)  that longer (than 12 hours) lenghts of a daylight could appear anywhere on the Earth at any given period of the year!!!

No way!!!

Refute it if you can!!!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 05:58:55 AM by cikljamas »
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

#### Mikey T.

• 2520
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #991 on: February 14, 2015, 05:34:16 AM »
Please without copy pasting yet again, clearly and calmly explain why the Earth isn't tilted.
Once again, do not copy paste the same stuff again, lets just give this to me piece by piece since you like to state something is a fact then use that as proof of the rest of your argument.
Lets stick to just why the Earth isn't tilted.

Plus this before you copy paste from your previous comment
The celestial equator is a great circle on the imaginary celestial sphere, in the same plane as the Earth's equator. In other words, it is a projection of the terrestrial equator out into space. As a result of the Earth's axial tilt, the celestial equator is inclined by 23.4° with respect to the ecliptic plane.
This is not anything but a reference tool for plotting and relaying where to look in the sky to see celestial bodies.  Since it is said that we rotate on this ball the stars move along this path from your point of view.

#### cikljamas

• 2174
• Ex nihilo nihil fit
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #992 on: February 14, 2015, 05:52:18 AM »
Please without copy pasting yet again, clearly and calmly explain why the Earth isn't tilted.
Once again, do not copy paste the same stuff again, lets just give this to me piece by piece since you like to state something is a fact then use that as proof of the rest of your argument.
Lets stick to just why the Earth isn't tilted.

Because, there is no rotation of the Earth!

1. If there is no rotation of the Earth, then there isn't revolution of the Earth around the Sun, also.

2. If there is no revolution of the Earth around the Sun, then there is no rotation of the Earth, also.

3. Noone EVER has proved that there is either rotation or revolution of the Earth!

4. Every failure of all attempts to prove that there is either rotation or revolution of the Earth presents proof to the contrary!

5. There was many such attempts in last 130 years, and these attempts were very serious scientific experiments!

6. If there is no rotation or/and revolution of the Earth, then there is no tilt of the Earth!

7. If the Earth is not tilted, then the general surface of the Earth must be flat, because on a different latitudes we have different lengths of daylight.

8. So, if the Earth is immovable, then she must be flat, also!

9. We have just proven not just that heliocentrism is a false hypothesis, but since the HC is a hoax, then the RET is a hoax, also!

Haven't you read this : http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62346.msg1645003#msg1645003

Jet Fission, your animations are ridiculous. Don't you see that in your animation more than half of the Earth is lit with Sun's rays? It's VERNAL EQUINOX, see above... So, something is wrong with your model of a globe...But even if you managed to correct this error in your model of a globe, your RET position would still be ABSOLUTELY HOPELESS, because :

1. No experiment has ever been performed with such excruciating persistence and meticulous precision, and in every conceivable manner, than that of trying to detect and measure the motion of the Earth. Yet they have all consistently and continually yielded a velocity for the Earth of exactly ZERO mph.

The toil of thousands of exasperated researchers, in the extremely varied experiments of Arago, De Coudre's induction, Fizeau, Fresnell drag, Hoek, Jaseja's lasers, Jenkins, Klinkerfuess, Michelson-Morley interferometry, Lord Rayleigh's polarimetry, Troughton-Noble torque, and the famous 'Airy's Failure' experiment, all conclusively failed to show any rotational or translational movement for the earth, whatsoever."

2. Heliocentrists believe the world beneath their feet is spinning a mind-numbing 1,038 mph at the equator while perfectly pulling the entire atmosphere along for the ride.  Meanwhile at the mid-latitudes of USA and Europe, they believe the world / atmosphere spin around 900-700 mph decreasing gradually all the way down to 0 mph at the North and South poles, where the stagnant atmosphere apparently never moves completely escaping the grips of gravity’s magic velcro. This means at all latitudes, every inch of the way, the atmosphere manages to perfectly coincide with the supposed speed of the Earth compensating from 0 mph at the poles all the way up to 1,038 mph at the equator, and every speed in between. These are all lofty assumptions heliocentrists make without any experimental evidence to back them up.

3. Remember, no experiment has ever shown the earth to be moving. Add to that the fact that the alleged rotational speed we've all been taught as scientific fact MUST decrease every inch or mile one goes north or south of the equator, and it becomes readily apparent that such things as accurate aerial bombing in WWII (down a chimney from 25,000 feet with a plane going any direction at high speed) would have been impossible if calculated on an earth moving below at several hundred MPH and changing constantly with the latitude." Marshall Hall, "A Small, Young Universe After All"

4.It is a well-known fact that clouds are continually seen moving in all manner of directions - yes, and frequently, in different directions at the same time - from west to east being as frequent a direction as any other.  Now, if the Earth were a globe, revolving through space from west to east at the rate of nineteen miles in a second, the clouds appearing to us to move towards the east would have to move quicker than nineteen miles in a second to be thus seen; whilst those which appear to be moving in the opposite direction would have no necessity to be moving at all, since the motion of the Earth would be more than sufficient to cause the appearance. But it only takes a little common sense to show us that it is the clouds that move just as they appear to do, and that, therefore, the Earth is motionless.”  -William Carpenter, “100 Proofs the Earth is Not a Globe”

5. If we fix upon any star as a standard or datum outside the visible atmosphere, we may sometimes observe a stratum of clouds going for hours together in a direction the very opposite to that in which the earth is supposed to be moving. Not only may a stratum of clouds be seen moving rapidly from east to west, but at the same moment other strata may often be seen moving from north to south, and from south to north. It is a fact well known to aeronauts, that several strata of atmospheric air are often moving in as many different directions at the same time ... On almost any moonlight and cloudy night, different strata may be seen not only moving in different directions but, at the same time, moving with different velocities; some floating past the face of the moon rapidly and uniformly, and others passing gently along, sometimes becoming stationary, then starting fitfully into motion, and often standing still for minutes together." -Samuel Rowbotham, "Zetetic Astronomy, Earth Not a Globe!"

6. The heliocentric theory, literally “flying” in the face of direct observation, experimental evidence and common sense, maintains that the ball-Earth is spinning around its axis at 1,000 miles per hour, revolving around the Sun at 67,000 miles per hour, while the entire solar system rotates around the Milky Way galaxy at 500,000 miles per hour, and the Milky Way speeds through the expanding Universe at over 670,000,000 miles per hour, yet no one in history has ever felt a thing!  We can feel the slightest breeze on a summer’s day, but never one iota of air displacement from these incredible speeds! Heliocentrists claim with a straight face that their ball-Earth spins at a constant velocity dragging the atmosphere in such a manner as to perfectly cancel all centrifugal, gravitational, and inertial forces so we do not feel the tiniest bit of motion, perturbation, wind or air resistance! Such back-peddling, damage-control reverse-engineered explanations certainly stretch the limits of credibility and the imagination, leaving much to be desired by discerning minds.

7. “If the Government or NASA had said to you that the Earth is stationary, imagine that. And then imagine we are trying to convince people that 'no, no it's not stationary, it's moving forward at 32 times rifle bullet speed and spinning at 1,000 miles per hour.' We would be laughed at! We would have so many people telling us 'you are crazy, the Earth is not moving!' We would be ridiculed for having no scientific backing for this convoluted moving Earth theory. And not only that but then people would say, 'oh then how do you explain a fixed, calm atmosphere and the Sun's observable movement, how do you explain that?' Imagine saying to people, 'no, no, the atmosphere is moving also but is somehow magically velcroed to the moving-Earth. The reason is not simply because the Earth is stationary.' So what we are actually doing is what makes sense. We are saying that the moving-Earth theory is nonsense. The stationary-Earth theory makes sense and we are being ridiculed. You've got to picture it being the other way around to realize just how RIDICULOUS this situation is. This theory from the Government and NASA that the Earth is rotating and orbiting and leaning over and wobbling is absolute nonsense and yet people are clinging to it, tightly, like a teddy bear. They just can't bring themselves to face the possibility that the Earth is stationary though ALL the evidence shows it: we feel no movement, the atmosphere hasn't been blown away, we see the Sun move from East-to-West, everything can be explained by a motionless Earth without bringing in all these assumptions to cover up previous assumptions gone bad.” -Allen Daves

8. ZIGZAG ARGUMENT ILLUSTRATION :

ZIGZAG ARGUMENT EXPLAINED IN THIS VIDEO : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank">

ADDITIONAL EXPLANATIONS FOR ZIGZAG ARG. - GLOBAL CONSPIRACY page 45 - post # 881: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62346.msg1655872#msg1655872

ADDITIONAL EXPLANATIONS FOR ZIGZAG ARG. - EQUATOR PROBLEM page 15 - post " 282 : http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62199.msg1638336#msg1638336
Fantastically put together. I applaud your efforts in all this.

Thanks Scepti!
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

#### Mikey T.

• 2520
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #993 on: February 14, 2015, 06:15:53 AM »
ok immediately to the copy paste again.  Lets try this one more time.  Tell me why there is no tilt.  Then we will work on other items.

#### Mainframes

• 2088
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #994 on: February 14, 2015, 07:05:17 AM »
Proof of rotation of Earth:

Foucault pendulum
Coriolis effect
Equatorial telescope mounts
Meteor shower intensity after midnight
24 daylight in Antarctica during Dec - Feb

Proof of revolution round sun:

Difference between solar day and sidereal day
Change in position of stars during course of the year
Meteor intensity after midnight

Just off the top of my head.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

#### cikljamas

• 2174
• Ex nihilo nihil fit
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #995 on: February 14, 2015, 07:11:08 AM »
ok immediately to the copy paste again.  Lets try this one more time.  Tell me why there is no tilt.  Then we will work on other items.

Do you understand english? If yes, then just answer to the next question:

If the Earth is at rest then the Sun travels above the equator and above the tropic of cancer and tropic of capricorn and along (above) various paths in between these two tropics (ecliptic-analema).

So, if the Sun travels travels along these lines, what would be the point of your alleged tilt of the Earth?
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

#### Mainframes

• 2088
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #996 on: February 14, 2015, 07:23:55 AM »
Yes but the Earth isn't at rest and does travel round the sun and this is why axial tilt is important.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

#### cikljamas

• 2174
• Ex nihilo nihil fit
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #997 on: February 14, 2015, 07:44:04 AM »
Yes but the Earth isn't at rest and does travel round the sun and this is why axial tilt is important.

When Heliocentrists failed to disprove the geocentric nature that we live in, they resorted to inventing assumptions, many of which are so absurd that the inventors themselves admit that they are unfalsifiable (by implication unscientific) thought-experiments. Some of these assumptions include:

-    the alleged tilt of the earth's axis,

-    the so called Copernican principle,

-    positive stellar parallax,

-    uniformitiy of the speed of light,

-    lengh contraction

-    time dilation

-    denial of inertia (only accepting an imaginary and isolated "chosen" inertial frame of reference)

-    the earth supposedly moving at a various speeds (in order to account for the observed eclipses)

Five-hundred years ago, you were crazy if you thought the Earth was going around the sun. Today, you are crazy if you think it is not. What changed? That is a fascinating question, one which involves profound issues of science, faith, and identity. While most people assume that it has long since been experimentally proven that the Earth is orbiting the sun, no such experimental proof ever has been obtained. As historian Lincoln Barnett states in The Universe and Dr. Einstein (which contains a foreword by Albert Einstein): "We can't feel our motion through space, nor has any physical experiment ever proved that the Earth actually is in motion."

Remarkably, physics had to be reconceptualized entirely by Einstein at the beginning of the 20th century, in part because no experiment directly had been able to measure this universally-assumed motion of the Earth around the sun. What Einstein could not foresee, however, was that the reconceptualized physics he offered in his special relativity theory in order to keep the Earth moving and the speed of light constant was superseded 10 years later by his general relativity theory which, by his own covariance equations, allowed the Earth to remain fixed and the speed of light to be variable.

Like Sisyphus rolling the huge rock up the hill only to see it fall down right before he reached the peak, in a strange way the principle of relativity made Einstein's own theories relative. Perhaps he realized this truth in his 1938 book, The Evolution of Physics, in which he said: "The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of [Claudius] Ptolemy and [Nicolaus] Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either coordinate system could be used with equal justification. The two sentences: 'the sun is at rest and the Earth moves,' or 'the sun moves and the Earth is at rest,' would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different coordinate systems."

Physicist Stephen Hawking said much the same in The Grand Design: "So which is real, the Ptolemaic or the Copernican system? Although it is not uncommon for people to say that Copernicus proved Ptolemy wrong, that is not true. As in the case of our normal view versus that of the goldfish, one can use either picture as a model of the universe, for our observations of the heavens can be explained by assuming either the Earth or the sun to be at rest."

So, two of our greatest scientific revolutions--the Copernican revolution and relativity--intimately are associated with this question of Earth's place in the larger scheme of things.

The Copernican Principle simply states that the Earth is not in any special or central location in the cosmos. It is sometimes generalized as the "cosmological principle," which holds that there are no special locations in the cosmos. On this fundamental assumption, which modern cosmology defines as the "isotropy and homogeneity of the universe," everything will look very much the same everywhere we look, and it will look very much the same no matter where we might be looking from.

If, for instance, we examine a bottle of homogenized milk, we see that there are no lumps of fat circulating in the milk nor resting on top. The milk would look the same no matter what part of it we examined. The Copernican and cosmological principles say much the same about the universe. Its matter and space are homogenized, as it were. To say it another way, these principles state that we are not able to distinguish one place from another in the universe. There is no up nor down, no left nor right, and no place where either we nor ET can claim to be in a special or central location.

This principle is named after Copernicus, since, in the 16th century, he revived the ancient Greek Pythagorean model that took Earth out of the center and put it among the other celestial bodies. As we then grew in our knowledge of the vastness of the universe from such icons as Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton, Ernst Mach, and Edwin Hubble, it was then we found out precisely what Copernicus' removal of Earth from the center meant, as Carl Sagan stated so eerily in Cosmos: "We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost between two spiral arms in the outskirts of a galaxy which is a member of a sparse cluster of galaxies, tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."

Copernican Principle is not a scientific fact, but rather a metaphysical assumption supported by profoundly convincing ideas and theories.

For thousands of years, there was a prevailing geocentric view of the cosmos, in which the Earth was believed to be the centre of the universe. By looking up at the sky and seeing the Sun, Moon, planets, and stars moving about Earth along circular paths day after day, it seemed evident to ancient people that the Earth was stationary and the rest of the universe moved around it.  Such a perspective was also in accordance with the God-centred worldview which maintained that a god or gods created us, and that there is a purpose to this creation.

The ancients were more than intelligent enough to understand that the same observational phenomena would be equally attributable to a rotation of the earth on its axis. So, why then was this perspective not adopted in ancient times?

“The simple truth is that the ancient world found it more plausible to believe that we were clearly the focus and centre of what we saw going around us”

The Danish astronomer Tycho Brahe (1546-1601), a brilliant experimental scientist whose measurements of the positions of the stars and planets surpassed any that were made prior to the invention of the telescope, proposed a model that attempted to serve as a compromise between the geocentric explanation and the Copernican theory.  In this model, all planets except the Earth revolve around the Sun. In other words, the planets revolve around the Sun, and the Sun revolves around the Earth.

“The remarkable thing is that the Tycho system absolutely duplicates the observations we see in the sky just as the heliocentric system does. There is no visual distinction at all between the Tycho system and the Copernican system.”

“For two centuries the greatest scientists in the world tried to come up with an experiment that would measure that motion of the earth around the sun, that everyone almost knew was obviously occurring. But paradoxically, for two centuries every one of these experiments that tried to measure this universally assumed motion of the Earth around the Sun kept returning a value of zero for the motion of the earth, and this became a really big issue in science.”

Over the last decade, a number of anomalous cosmological observations have emerged which do not make sense according to the Copernican Principle, the latest being the Planck satellite results of March 2013.  While the science behind the findings is complex, to put it simply, the Copernican Principle requires that any variation in the radiation from the Cosmic Microwave Background (thermal radiation assumed to be left over from the ‘Big Bang’) be more or less randomly distributed throughout the universe.  However, the results of three separate missions, starting with the WMAP satellite in 2001, has shown anomalies in the background radiation which are aligned directly with the plane of our solar system and the equator of the Earth. This never-before-seen alignment of the Earth results in an axis through the universe, which scientists have dubbed the ‘Axis of Evil’, owing to the shocking implications for current models of the cosmos.

Laurence Krauss, American theoretical physicist and cosmologist, commented in 2005:

"When you look at [the cosmic microwave background] map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That’s crazy. We’re looking out at the whole universe. There’s no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe."

Cosmologists, astrophysicists, and others initially brushed off the strange finding as an artifact, and dozens of papers and reports followed trying to address the anomaly. But when the Planck results returned in March 2013, the alignment showed up in yet even higher resolution and detail, and has now been replicated across three separate missions, suggesting there is something more than an ‘artifact’ that is going on here.

“The thing that has really launched the media hysteria about our film, is that we are pulling the covers off the dirty little secret that not only is there structure, that structure is related in astonishing ways to one and precisely one location in the universe, and it happens to be us!"

So much about the alleged tilt of the Earth!
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

#### Jet Fission

• 519
• NASA shill
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #998 on: February 14, 2015, 08:01:36 AM »
To a flat earth theorist, being a "skeptic" is to have confirmation bias.
Just because I'm a genius doesn't mean I know everything.

#### 29silhouette

• 3302
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #999 on: February 14, 2015, 09:39:32 AM »
ok immediately to the copy paste again.  Lets try this one more time.  Tell me why there is no tilt.  Then we will work on other items.

Do you understand english? If yes, then just answer to the next question:

If the Earth is at rest then the Sun travels above the equator and above the tropic of cancer and tropic of capricorn and along (above) various paths in between these two tropics (ecliptic-analema).

So, if the Sun travels travels along these lines, what would be the point of your alleged tilt of the Earth?
The sun would have to travel almost twice as fast at the Tropic of Capricorn than it would at the Tropic of Cancer to complete one 24hr lap.  I forget the exact speeds.

Is there any evidence of the sun moving overhead faster in the south during summer than it does in the north during summer?  No?  Looks like Earth is a sphere then.

#### ausGeoff

• 6091
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1000 on: February 14, 2015, 11:03:56 AM »

You should know by now that cikljamas never provides any citations to any of his alleged "sources".  His modus operandi is to post several screensfull of plagiarised copypasta, along with half a dozen over-sized photos, and a few inexplicable, Photoshopped diagrams, and then simply..... claim "victory".

I've never seen anybody, on any forum, spend so much time, and make so much effort to produce so little evidence of so little LOL.

?

#### Alpha2Omega

• 3974
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1001 on: February 14, 2015, 11:46:29 AM »
When someone puts forward such mindless junk he/she should be aware that by doing this he/she throws away last pieces of his/her credibility! That is why, for example, i don't expect of Alpha2Omega to take a stand on ZIGZAG argument, because, even if he still might be adherent of RET (although i can hardly believe that any serious person could proceed with such stubbornness, after taking note of indisputable validity and undeniable power of ZIGZAG argument), he is not stupid at all (QUITE CONTRARY!!!), and i am very sad that i can't use the same words for many other REs here.

Sorry to disappoint, but I have taken and still do take a stand on your "ZIGZAG" argument. To refresh your memory, the stand was (and still is): "You're wrong."

Postings in the last few weeks clarified that you're conflating two entirely different processes into what you call your "ZIGZAG argument."

One of these is the parallax expected due to the observer's distance distance from the axis, which, on a perfectly spherical earth, is the radius of the earth times the cosine of the observer's latitude. Let's see how big this is.

D = Re cos( lat ).

If you say Re is 4000 miles, then D would be very close to 1600 miles at the Arctic or Antarctic Circle.

Solar parallax due to the daily rotation would be twice arctan (D / distance to the sun)

psol = 2 tan-1( D / 1 AU )
= 2 tan-1( 1600 mi / 93000000 mi)
= 2 tan-1( 1.72 X 10-5 )
= 2 ( 9.9 X 10-4
= ( 2 X 10-3 )° = 0.002° approximately

This tiny apparent shift occurs over a period of 12 hours, varying sinusoidally with a maximum rate of about ( 2.6 X 10-4 )°/hr at local noon and midnight.

Now, the Sun's apparent movement against the stars is 360° / 365.25 days; call it 1° per day, a bit over 0.04° / hr. This is more than 150 times the maximum rate of parallax shift!

Even this apparent motion is swamped by the diurnal rate of 15°/hour times the cosine of the sun's declination,
= 15°/hour cos( 23.5° ) at the solstice
= 13.76°/hour.

13.76°/hour is more than 50,000 times the maximum parallax rate of .00026°/hour! So, no, the Sun doesn't come anywhere near "zig-zagging" due to parallax. Its diurnal rate would shift ever so slightly, but it's clearly not going to reverse direction of movement through the sky due to this tiny, tiny effect. Your not-to-scale diagrams with the Sun located way too close to the Earth have misled you into thinking this would be significant. Despite suggestions by several here, though, the size of the Sun makes no difference here; only the Sun's distance and the diameter of the observer's circle of latitude matter.

Your interpretation of the completely separate issue of the Sun's direction of motion over a full day is also clearly incorrect. For an observer above the Arctic Circle at (or near) the summer solstice, as long as he continues facing the Sun, it continues moving left to right for the full day. He will, of course, have completed a full rotation relative to the point where he is standing, over the course of the full day; this counteracts the full rotation of the Earth relative to the Sun over the same period. The Earth, in effect, rotated once under him.

Returning to the thought experiment with a transparent earth, for an observer at mid-northern latitude during summer, the Sun rises in the northeast, and proceeds left to right across the sky as the observer faces it until it "sets" in the northwest. After this, with our hypothetical transparent earth, if the observer continues facing the Sun, it continues moving left to right until it intersects the northeastern horizon at its beginning point. No reversal of direction.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

#### Dinosaur Neil

• 3177
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1002 on: February 14, 2015, 12:37:22 PM »

You should know by now that cikljamas never provides any citations to any of his alleged "sources".  His modus operandi is to post several screensfull of plagiarised copypasta, along with half a dozen over-sized photos, and a few inexplicable, Photoshopped diagrams, and then simply..... claim "victory".

I've never seen anybody, on any forum, spend so much time, and make so much effort to produce so little evidence of so little LOL.

You should go the the "Believer's Section" or the "Information Repository" and read the enormous scroll of copypasta Sandokhan types for nobody else to read. Makes CKllamapyjama's posts look like a pithy haiku.
Founder member of the League Of Scientific Gentlemen and Mademoiselles des Connaissances.
I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug.

#### cikljamas

• 2174
• Ex nihilo nihil fit
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1003 on: February 14, 2015, 12:53:48 PM »
Alpha2Omega, you are trying to be smart again?

Well, you are smarter than many REs here, but you are too weak to dispute validity of my ZIGZAG argument:

You can not use that 0,01 degree (when it suits you) to rule out parallax, and then discard that 0,01 degree (when it doesn't suit you) when you have to explain huge effect of the apparent motion of the sun across the sky as we see it in our reality.

The very same reason (alleged rotation of the Earth from West to East) that causes you to observe "apparent" daily motion of the Sun from East to West), would be the reason which would enable you to observe (if you could see through the Earth) nightly motion of the Sun from West to East, am i right?

So, the very same reason why you see in Arctic circle Sun's "apparent" motion from East to West during the first 12 hours of one polar day, would be the reason which would enable you to observe "nightly" apparent motion of the midnight Sun from West to East (if the Earth rotated) during the second half of the same polar day, am i right?

Only, during the second half of the same polar day the apparent motion of the Sun would be in opposite direction (with respect to the first half of the polar day), because you would travel in opposite direction (with respect to the direction of your motion during the first half of the polar day) on a rotating globe during the second half of the same polar day.

Your technique of lying becomes evident from these words of yours:

Quote
Returning to the thought experiment with a transparent earth, for an observer at mid-northern latitude during summer, the Sun rises in the northeast, and proceeds left to right across the sky as the observer faces it until it "sets" in the northwest. After this, with our hypothetical transparent earth, if the observer continues facing the Sun, it continues moving left to right until it intersects the northeastern horizon at its beginning point. No reversal of direction.

Do you really think that people are so stupid to be unable to understand such simple geometry, and thus easily figure out obvious truth, which is: you deliberately lie all the time!?
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

#### Mikey T.

• 2520
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1004 on: February 14, 2015, 01:31:51 PM »
uhh the zigzag argument as you call it, why would the sun change directions if you were on a rotating ball?  if you were tilted slightly towards the sun it would stat out the day, in the Arctic or Antarctic during their respective summers, lower on the horizon then as you rotated rise higher in the sky while traveling across the sky till you reached midday where (because you are on a spinning ball) it would continue to travel in the same circular direction (from your relative perspective) but start to sink toward the horizon.  If you accept the tilt argument then while the spinning ball you are on is tilted towards the sun, depending on how close you were to the axis of spin, then sun would rise and fall in the sky but not quite set beyond the horizon as long as you were situated on the tilted ball where the sunlight still reached.  This also explains the longer days during the summer, if you are on a tilted ball then your transit time through the dark side would be shorter the further towards the axis of rotation you go.  You keep trying to say the sun goes East then West therefore it zigzags.  It circles all the way around you on a tilted sphere.  But if you want to think in 2 dimensional then yeah it travels from your right to your left behind you then it travels from your left to your right in front of you so long as you remain fixed facing one direction and don't look up.

#### 29silhouette

• 3302
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1005 on: February 14, 2015, 01:49:40 PM »
you deliberately lie all the time!?
If you have any honesty, you can explain why this image you insist on repeatedly posting has been obviously distorted compared to the original.
Your silence on the matter will only confirm that you are in fact dishonest and a liar.

#### cikljamas

• 2174
• Ex nihilo nihil fit
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1006 on: February 14, 2015, 03:06:30 PM »
uhh the zigzag argument as you call it, why would the sun change directions if you were on a rotating ball?  if you were tilted slightly towards the sun it would stat out the day, in the Arctic or Antarctic during their respective summers, lower on the horizon then as you rotated rise higher in the sky while traveling across the sky till you reached midday where (because you are on a spinning ball) it would continue to travel in the same circular direction (from your relative perspective) but start to sink toward the horizon.  If you accept the tilt argument then while the spinning ball you are on is tilted towards the sun, depending on how close you were to the axis of spin, then sun would rise and fall in the sky but not quite set beyond the horizon as long as you were situated on the tilted ball where the sunlight still reached.  This also explains the longer days during the summer, if you are on a tilted ball then your transit time through the dark side would be shorter the further towards the axis of rotation you go.

I didn't want to go in all possible details regarding ZIGZAG argument (at that time), but now that you have mentioned this, i can say this:

Yes, if the Earth rotated on it's axis even in lower latitudes (in summer time (principally)) we could see Sun's ZIGING and ZAGING, that is to say, we would be able to watch as the Sun goes in oposite direction every day:

1. Before 6 AM
2. After 6 PM

You keep trying to say the sun goes East then West therefore it zigzags.  It circles all the way around you on a tilted sphere.  But if you want to think in 2 dimensional then yeah it travels from your right to your left behind you then it travels from your left to your right in front of you so long as you remain fixed facing one direction and don't look up.

Precisely!
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

#### Mikey T.

• 2520
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1007 on: February 14, 2015, 03:34:35 PM »
so how does the zig zag argument prove anything?  If the ball is spinning then from your perspective the sun travels in a circle above you while near the poles during their summer.
The way the sun travels at the North pole zig zag or around you, however you want to limit the dimensional reality of your field of view, will not prove or disprove either argument.  It can be proof of both the sun spotlighting down on a flat Earth traveling in a circle, a small sun rotating around a round stationary Earth, or a tilted rotating Earth.  The transit of the sun at the North pole alone is not proof, it is evidence to support all three claims.  Now if you believe the South pole midnight sun is correct, then that does provide proof of the flat Earth model, but does not disprove the other 2.
So since we are on the flat Earth society website lets remove any data concerning the south pole, since it clearly is not acceptable to the flat theory.

So zig zag argument is invalid for these purposes.  I am not saying incorrect, just that it is not valid to the shape of the Earth or can disprove tilt.

#### cikljamas

• 2174
• Ex nihilo nihil fit
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1008 on: February 14, 2015, 03:54:20 PM »
so how does the zig zag argument prove anything?  If the ball is spinning then from your perspective the sun travels in a circle above you while near the poles during their summer.
The way the sun travels at the North pole zig zag or around you, however you want to limit the dimensional reality of your field of view, will not prove or disprove either argument.  It can be proof of both the sun spotlighting down on a flat Earth traveling in a circle, a small sun rotating around a round stationary Earth, or a tilted rotating Earth.  The transit of the sun at the North pole alone is not proof, it is evidence to support all three claims.  Now if you believe the South pole midnight sun is correct, then that does provide proof of the flat Earth model, but does not disprove the other 2.
So since we are on the flat Earth society website lets remove any data concerning the south pole, since it clearly is not acceptable to the flat theory.

So zig zag argument is invalid for these purposes.  I am not saying incorrect, just that it is not valid to the shape of the Earth or can disprove tilt.

ZIGZAG argument isn't direct proof for the general flatness of the surface of the Earth, but it is indirect proof for the same purpose.

I explained it one page back, don't you remember?

Lack of a ZIGZAG phenomena within the Arctic circle is 100 % proof against the rotation of the Earth!

If there is no rotation of the Earth, there is no tilt of the Earth, if there is no tilt of the Earth, then the Earth must be flat.

Everything explained in details on the page 50 of this thread!
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

#### Jet Fission

• 519
• NASA shill
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1009 on: February 14, 2015, 04:13:46 PM »
so how does the zig zag argument prove anything?  If the ball is spinning then from your perspective the sun travels in a circle above you while near the poles during their summer.
The way the sun travels at the North pole zig zag or around you, however you want to limit the dimensional reality of your field of view, will not prove or disprove either argument.  It can be proof of both the sun spotlighting down on a flat Earth traveling in a circle, a small sun rotating around a round stationary Earth, or a tilted rotating Earth.  The transit of the sun at the North pole alone is not proof, it is evidence to support all three claims.  Now if you believe the South pole midnight sun is correct, then that does provide proof of the flat Earth model, but does not disprove the other 2.
So since we are on the flat Earth society website lets remove any data concerning the south pole, since it clearly is not acceptable to the flat theory.

So zig zag argument is invalid for these purposes.  I am not saying incorrect, just that it is not valid to the shape of the Earth or can disprove tilt.

ZIGZAG argument isn't direct proof for the general flatness of the surface of the Earth, but it is indirect proof for the same purpose.

I explained it one page back, don't you remember?

Lack of a ZIGZAG phenomena within the Arctic circle is 100 % proof against the rotation of the Earth!

If there is no rotation of the Earth, there is no tilt of the Earth, if there is no tilt of the Earth, then the Earth must be flat.

Everything explained in details on the page 50 of this thread!
Cikljamas, you cannot expect us to copy and paste our proof against your invalid argument over and over.

Because you never actually read what we say.
Let it go, you're wrong, it's okay.
It isn't the first time you've been defeated, anyway.
To a flat earth theorist, being a "skeptic" is to have confirmation bias.
Just because I'm a genius doesn't mean I know everything.

#### Rama Set

• 6877
• I am also an engineer
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1010 on: February 14, 2015, 04:22:23 PM »
Alpha2Omega, you are trying to be smart again?

Well, you are smarter than many REs here, but you are too weak to dispute validity of my ZIGZAG argument:

You can not use that 0,01 degree (when it suits you) to rule out parallax, and then discard that 0,01 degree (when it doesn't suit you) when you have to explain huge effect of the apparent motion of the sun across the sky as we see it in our reality.

The very same reason (alleged rotation of the Earth from West to East) that causes you to observe "apparent" daily motion of the Sun from East to West), would be the reason which would enable you to observe (if you could see through the Earth) nightly motion of the Sun from West to East, am i right?

So, the very same reason why you see in Arctic circle Sun's "apparent" motion from East to West during the first 12 hours of one polar day, would be the reason which would enable you to observe "nightly" apparent motion of the midnight Sun from West to East (if the Earth rotated) during the second half of the same polar day, am i right?

Only, during the second half of the same polar day the apparent motion of the Sun would be in opposite direction (with respect to the first half of the polar day), because you would travel in opposite direction (with respect to the direction of your motion during the first half of the polar day) on a rotating globe during the second half of the same polar day.

Your technique of lying becomes evident from these words of yours:

Quote
Returning to the thought experiment with a transparent earth, for an observer at mid-northern latitude during summer, the Sun rises in the northeast, and proceeds left to right across the sky as the observer faces it until it "sets" in the northwest. After this, with our hypothetical transparent earth, if the observer continues facing the Sun, it continues moving left to right until it intersects the northeastern horizon at its beginning point. No reversal of direction.

Do you really think that people are so stupid to be unable to understand such simple geometry, and thus easily figure out obvious truth, which is: you deliberately lie all the time!?

It seems like you are confusing left and right with east and west
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

#### Mikey T.

• 2520
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1011 on: February 14, 2015, 04:26:30 PM »
You seem to be missing the point here than.  The "zig Zag" argument cannot prove anything.  It circles around your head above the horizon.  Thats exactly what would happen on a large ball spinning.
If the Sun is very far away, and the Earth rotates on a tilt.
Then what you would see during the summer in the Arctic circle is a sun that circles the entire sky while wobbling up and down depending on distance from the axis of rotation.
Because you are spinning the point of how the sun lines up along the horizon moves around that arc.  So from an observer on the balls perspective the sun circles them.

?

#### Alpha2Omega

• 3974
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1012 on: February 14, 2015, 05:07:19 PM »
Alpha2Omega, you are trying to be smart again?

I try to be as smart as possible. Don't you? Sometimes it's good enough, sometimes not.

Quote
Well, you are smarter than many REs here, but you are too weak to dispute validity of my ZIGZAG argument:

Quote
You can not use that 0,01 degree (when it suits you) to rule out parallax, and then discard that 0,01 degree (when it doesn't suit you) when you have to explain huge effect of the apparent motion of the sun across the sky as we see it in our reality.

Why not? It's 0.002° of parallax, not 0.001°, but whatever; if it's small enough to ignore as an insignificant effect in comparison to 180° in the same time period (that's a ratio of 1:90000; 1:180000 using your incorrect number), then why not discard it? Is this what you really meant to say?

Where did I say that parallax was the source of the diurnal motion of the Sun across the sky? I said it's insignificant in comparison. I think 1:90000 counts as insignificant in this context.

Quote
The very same reason (alleged rotation of the Earth from West to East) that causes you to observe "apparent" daily motion of the Sun from East to West), would be the reason which would enable you to observe (if you could see through the Earth) nightly motion of the Sun from West to East, am i right?

So, the very same reason why you see in Arctic circle Sun's "apparent" motion from East to West during the first 12 hours of one polar day, would be the reason which would enable you to observe "nightly" apparent motion of the midnight Sun from West to East (if the Earth rotated) during the second half of the same polar day, am i right?

Hold it... earlier, you were asking about left-to-right motion. Now it's east-to-west? What changed?

If you think about it, once anything that appears to be moving in a circular-type path (ellipses count) reaches its westernmost point, if it keeps moving, it has to change from east to west to west to east. It doesn't matter if it's your motion that makes it appear to move, or if you're stationary and it's moving. You can't be more west than west.

Quote
Only, during the second half of the same polar day the apparent motion of the Sun would be in opposite direction (with respect to the first half of the polar day), because you would travel in opposite direction (with respect to the direction of your motion during the first half of the polar day) on a rotating globe during the second half of the same polar day.

Your technique of lying becomes evident from these words of yours:

Quote
Returning to the thought experiment with a transparent earth, for an observer at mid-northern latitude during summer, the Sun rises in the northeast, and proceeds left to right across the sky as the observer faces it until it "sets" in the northwest. After this, with our hypothetical transparent earth, if the observer continues facing the Sun, it continues moving left to right until it intersects the northeastern horizon at its beginning point. No reversal of direction.

Do you really think that people are so stupid to be unable to understand such simple geometry, and thus easily figure out obvious truth, which is: you deliberately lie all the time!?

Actually, I'm hoping at least some of the readers are smart enough to understand such simple geometry and be able to recognize the obvious truth about the motion of celestial objects. Do you? It seems you don't. If something appears to trace a circular path, in half a rotation it will travel in the opposite direction it did before. This is called "expected", not "impossible". What, specifically, is it you think I'm lying about? What is it about the quoted passage that you think is wrong?

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

#### cikljamas

• 2174
• Ex nihilo nihil fit
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1013 on: February 14, 2015, 06:47:17 PM »
If we applied your "0,002" logic consistently, then not only that we couldn't notice any parallax in the sky, but we couldn't notice any apparent motion of the sun across the sky, also. That's what you are avoiding to admit all along.

We would have some kind of sunrise, and some kind of sunset, but nothing alike a huge apparent motion (as we know it from our reality) in between these strange kind of  abrupt sunrise and strange kind of abrupt sunset...That would be our reality if we applied your "0,002" logic consistently.

A huge apparent motion of the sun across the sky (as we know it) is a result of the very close distance between the Sun and the Earth.

Mixing two different criteria (applying "0,002" logic to "the parallax issue", and in the same time avoiding to apply same "0,002" logic to "a huge apparent motion of the Sun across the sky issue", can confuse some readers, but it can not confuse me.

Now, we are going to witness a new round of your "hide and seek" pathetic-little game...
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

#### Jet Fission

• 519
• NASA shill
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1014 on: February 14, 2015, 06:57:43 PM »
If we applied your "0,002" logic consistently, then not only that we couldn't notice any parallax in the sky, but we couldn't notice any apparent motion of the sun across the sky, also. That's what you are avoiding to admit all along.

We would have some kind of sunrise, and some kind of sunset, but nothing alike a huge apparent motion (as we know it from our reality) in between these strange kind of  abrupt sunrise and strange kind of abrupt sunset...That would be our reality if we applied your "0,002" logic consistently.

A huge apparent motion of the sun across the sky (as we know it) is a result of the very close distance between the Sun and the Earth.

Mixing two different criteria (applying "0,002" logic to "the parallax issue", and in the same time avoiding to apply same "0,002" logic to "a huge apparent motion of the Sun across the sky issue", can confuse some readers, but it can not confuse me.

Now, we are going to witness a new round of your "hide and seek" pathetic-little game...
What? There's a huge difference between moving from side to side and rotating 360 degrees. His ".002" logic is not something that can be denied- it's proved mathematics.
The sun's movement would still work perfectly fine.
To a flat earth theorist, being a "skeptic" is to have confirmation bias.
Just because I'm a genius doesn't mean I know everything.

?

#### Alpha2Omega

• 3974
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1015 on: February 14, 2015, 10:22:18 PM »
If we applied your "0,002" logic consistently, then not only that we couldn't notice any parallax in the sky, but we couldn't notice any apparent motion of the sun across the sky, also. That's what you are avoiding to admit all along.

That 0.002° specifically refers to the parallax of the Sun relative to distant stars from points at a latitude near the Arctic (or Antarctic) circle 180° apart in longitude, not any object in the sky from anywhere. Parallax of the Moon from the same points is much greater (because it's much closer). Parallax of LEO satellites is vastly greater (because they're vastly closer than even the Moon). The apparent motion of the Sun across the sky is independent of that, and depends only on the rotation of the Earth relative to the Sun - nothing else - not its size, not its distance, not your distance from the Earth's axis of rotation.

Quote
We would have some kind of sunrise, and some kind of sunset, but nothing alike a huge apparent motion (as we know it from our reality) in between these strange kind of  abrupt sunrise and strange kind of abrupt sunset...That would be our reality if we applied your "0,002" logic consistently.

How would applying the parallax of the Sun at the Arctic circle affect sunrises or sunsets in any meaningful way? The Sun's diurnal motion is some five orders of magnitude greater than its parallax at the Arctic circle and totally swamps any tiny parallax effects.

Quote
A huge apparent motion of the sun across the sky (as we know it) is a result of the very close distance between the Sun and the Earth.

No, it's a result of the angular velocity of the Earth relative to the Sun - one rotation per 24 hours. Once the distance is great enough that parallax isn't significant, distance to the Sun has nothing to do with it.

Quote
Mixing two different criteria (applying "0,002" logic to "the parallax issue", and in the same time avoiding to apply same "0,002" logic to "a huge apparent motion of the Sun across the sky issue", can confuse some readers, but it can not confuse me.

The "parallax issue" depends only on the lateral distance from observer to the Earth's axis of rotation. These don't apply to the diurnal apparent motion of the Sun, which depends only on the rate of rotation of the Earth wrt the Sun (once per 24 hours). Apparently you are confused.

Quote
Now, we are going to witness a new round of your "hide and seek" pathetic-little game...

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

#### cikljamas

• 2174
• Ex nihilo nihil fit
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1016 on: February 15, 2015, 05:00:34 AM »
Five orders of magnitude, wow, i am trembling...hahaha...

So, it is not 0,002, it's 0,010, ha?

But, wait, the apparent motion of the sun across the sky is the result of the angular velocity of the Earth relative to the Sun, so we should neglect this 0,010 or we shouldn't neglect it?

Mixing two different criteria (applying "0,002" logic to "the parallax issue", and in the same time avoiding to apply "0,010" logic to "a huge apparent motion of the Sun across the sky issue", can confuse some readers, but it can not confuse me.

If the Earth rotated on it's axis even in lower latitudes (in summer time (principally)) we could see Sun's ZIGING and ZAGING, that is to say, we would be able to watch as the Sun goes in oposite direction every day:

1. Before 6 AM
2. After 6 PM

And this effect would be FIVE orders of magnitude greater than the ZIGZAG phenomena observable from within the Arctic circle.

I told you, people are not stupid:

Quote
Quote from: Mikey T Lovzballs on February 14, 2015, 01:31:51 PM

You keep trying to say the sun goes East then West therefore it zigzags.  It circles all the way around you on a tilted sphere.  But if you want to think in 2 dimensional then yeah it travels from your right to your left behind you then it travels from your left to your right in front of you so long as you remain fixed facing one direction and don't look up.

You know, Alpha2Omega, one day you will stand in front of your Creator who created Heaven and Earth, and then you will have to explain some things....

It's one thing when someone don't understand something, but it is completely different when someone deliberately and persistently lie...

I afraid that you will have no excuse for your persistent (and even obvious) lying and deceiving...

He said to His disciples, "It is inevitable that stumbling blocks come, but woe to him through whom they come! 2"It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble. 3"Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.…

And there is the most severe punishment for such persistent and deliberate, conscious behavior...

In Matthew 12:31-32, Jesus says to the Pharisees,

“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come” (NKJV, emphasis added).

...However, the Pharisees had so firmly set their hearts against accepting Jesus as the Messiah that they rejected the obvious truth before them and perversely twisted it to influence the crowds....

They turned away from the abundant light graciously provided to them, and chose to remain forever in their unbelief. They persistently refused to listen to anything the Holy Spirit was telling them. Like the Pharisees, they chose self-imposed blindness. For this reason, they were strongly judged. “For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required…” (Luke 12:48). Thus, along with nearby Chorazin and Bethsaida, Capernaum received a very stern warning from Jesus, “It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee” (Matt. 11:21-24).
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

#### Mikey T.

• 2520
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1017 on: February 15, 2015, 06:46:43 AM »
So instead of listening and actually trying to offer proof, you call Alpha and me liars?  Explain what you mean by the sun will go across the sky then reverse its direction on a spinning Earth.  I know its getting hard to conceptualize for you since you refuse to listen to reason.

The sun does not zig zag back and forth across the sky.  It would not in any way do so on either a flat Earth or a spinning Earth (whether its shaped like a ball or not)

If you are on a very large sphere and there is a light source on one side of that sphere, your sunrise will happen in the same direction every day.  I am not even going to go into the tilt argument yet because you are completely lost on the spinning part right now.

ZIG ZAG is utterly STUPID and in no way represents reality of anyone who can think or reason for themselves.

Your arguments are redundant at best, you make a claim of fact, then use that claimed fact to "disprove" other facts.  Seriously?
What I said is if you want to think completely in 2 dimensions then the sun would go one direction behind you then the other in front of you, now look up and widen your viewing angle a bit to observe the same thing and the sun would appear to circle all the way around you.

#### 29silhouette

• 3302
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1018 on: February 15, 2015, 08:02:22 AM »
It's one thing when someone don't understand something, but it is completely different when someone deliberately and persistently lie...

I afraid that you will have no excuse for your persistent (and even obvious) lying and deceiving...
And still no reply or explanation to my post earlier on this page regarding your edited and deceiving world map you persistently post.

I guess that settles it?

#### cikljamas

• 2174
• Ex nihilo nihil fit
##### Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #1019 on: February 15, 2015, 08:57:43 AM »
So instead of listening and actually trying to offer proof, you call Alpha and me liars?  Explain what you mean by the sun will go across the sky then reverse its direction on a spinning Earth.  I know its getting hard to conceptualize for you since you refuse to listen to reason.

The sun does not zig zag back and forth across the sky.  It would not in any way do so on either a flat Earth or a spinning Earth (whether its shaped like a ball or not)

If you are on a very large sphere and there is a light source on one side of that sphere, your sunrise will happen in the same direction every day.  I am not even going to go into the tilt argument yet because you are completely lost on the spinning part right now.

ZIG ZAG is utterly STUPID and in no way represents reality of anyone who can think or reason for themselves.

Your arguments are redundant at best, you make a claim of fact, then use that claimed fact to "disprove" other facts.  Seriously?
What I said is if you want to think completely in 2 dimensions then the sun would go one direction behind you then the other in front of you, now look up and widen your viewing angle a bit to observe the same thing and the sun would appear to circle all the way around you.

Your posts are utterly STUPID, but since we came so far away (51th page), i will give a try once more:

If the Earth rotated on it's axis even in lower latitudes (in summer time (principally)) we could see Sun's ZIGING and ZAGING, that is to say, we would be able to watch as the Sun goes in oposite direction every day:

1. Before 6 AM
2. After 6 PM

What is it exactly that you don't understand here?
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP