GLOBAL CONSPIRACY

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ausGeoff

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #630 on: January 10, 2015, 05:44:04 AM »
Mr Rowbotham was, still is, and ever will be a real hero!

Uh... I have to ask you cikljamas;  has April 1st come early where you live?

    ;D

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tony1kenobi

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #631 on: January 10, 2015, 06:38:39 AM »
High tide is when the Moon is directly above you or (arguably) on the opposite side of Earth.
So high tide is when the moon is above you but is still high tide when the moon is on the opposite side of the globe? Explain this nonsense.

  Low tide is when the Moon is at the horizon.  The tides even follow the orbital inclination of the Moon and their height can be predicted given the size and distance of the Moon.  There is even a measurable difference in the aprent strength of Earth's gravity when the Moon is over head.  The Moon must be in on the conspiracy too  :o
What happens to the tides when you don't see a moon?

The general theory (as far as I understand) is that the earth's spin, along with the gravitational pull of the moon, creates a "bulge" in the oceans, not just directly underneath the moon (though it is at its highest there) but right around the circumference of the globe (due to centrifugal force). So there is high tide even when the moon is on the opposite side of the earth. 

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tony1kenobi

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #632 on: January 10, 2015, 08:05:07 AM »

   
Quote
As you walk down the beach as it's going out, you know you are walking down hill into a concave bowl.
    The more you walk the deeper you get. You can do this at high tide. Just walk into the water and each step you will sink deeper and deeper and deeper. Why do you think this is?

Instead of changing the subject, answer the question directly, if you can!
[/quote]

 ??? Hi there. I'm confused about why this is such an issue with you. According to generally accepted (RE) theory, earth has a gravitational force that draws matter to its center. Water, which is a fluid will always fall to the lowest point (ie. in RE theory, the center of the earth). The "containers" of the oceans are therefore only concave at their edges and the ocean beds are generally convex (ie. follow the shape of the earth). Like someone previously stated, the ocean beds are generally not flat, but they may seem so in certain areas. Either way, the fact that water falls and collects at the "lowest" possible point and fills containers/bowls, is a simple notion that makes sense in both RE and FE theory as far as I can tell.

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mikeman7918

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #633 on: January 10, 2015, 08:16:38 AM »
High tide is when the Moon is directly above you or (arguably) on the opposite side of Earth.
So high tide is when the moon is above you but is still high tide when the moon is on the opposite side of the globe? Explain this nonsense.

  Low tide is when the Moon is at the horizon.  The tides even follow the orbital inclination of the Moon and their height can be predicted given the size and distance of the Moon.  There is even a measurable difference in the aprent strength of Earth's gravity when the Moon is over head.  The Moon must be in on the conspiracy too  :o
What happens to the tides when you don't see a moon?

The Moon's gravity pulls the oceans on the near side and on the far side, the Earth is actually being pulled more then the moon making the ocean bulge up because it is effected by the Moon less then the ground beneath it.  When you don't see the Moon, the tides behave just as if the Moon were on the opposite side of the sky.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #634 on: January 10, 2015, 09:43:16 AM »

   
Quote
As you walk down the beach as it's going out, you know you are walking down hill into a concave bowl.
    The more you walk the deeper you get. You can do this at high tide. Just walk into the water and each step you will sink deeper and deeper and deeper. Why do you think this is?

Quote
Instead of changing the subject, answer the question directly, if you can!


 ??? Hi there. I'm confused about why this is such an issue with you. According to generally accepted (RE) theory, earth has a gravitational force that draws matter to its center. Water, which is a fluid will always fall to the lowest point (ie. in RE theory, the center of the earth). The "containers" of the oceans are therefore only concave at their edges and the ocean beds are generally convex (ie. follow the shape of the earth). Like someone previously stated, the ocean beds are generally not flat, but they may seem so in certain areas. Either way, the fact that water falls and collects at the "lowest" possible point and fills containers/bowls, is a simple notion that makes sense in both RE and FE theory as far as I can tell.

OCEAN BEDS ARGUMENT:

Bearing in mind thousands of miles, in the Atlantic, the Pacific, and the great Southern Ocean beds being a plane surface, we should consider what is represented in the next illustration:



Ocean waters supposedly follow general spherical shape of the Earth. Now, if we imagined 1000 miles long portion of an oceanic bed, we should suppose 200 km depth (under the ocean surface) at which this oceanic bed were situated, in order to stay below the surface of the ocean!

Otherwise, great portions of such VAST SUB-OCEANIC PLANES would cut out the curved sea level-line and protrude outward the ocean surface!

Isn't that obvious?


http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62346.msg1648925#msg1648925

Abyssal plain,  flat seafloor area at an abyssal depth (3,000 to 6,000 m [10,000 to 20,000 feet]), generally adjacent to a continent. These submarine surfaces vary in depth only from 10 to 100 cm per kilometre of horizontal distance. Irregular in outline but generally elongate along continental margins, the larger plains are hundreds of kilometres wide and thousands of kilometres long.

JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF THAT KIND (and i can show you numerous examples of the same kind):



1500 MILES LONG ABYSSAL PLAIN LINE ALONG WHICH DEPTH OF THE OCEAN DOESN'T VARY MORE THAN 100 METERS!

If we imagined a - 3000 miles long - straight line at the bottom of the ocean basin which line represents a supposed shape of the ocean basin, then the bottom of our (3000 miles long) ocean basin should be (measured right in the middle of our straight line) 1125 miles below the surface of the ocean.

Not only that the ocean basin/floor is not a convex shaped, it is not even a flat shaped, but concave!

This would be utterly impossible on a convex shaped world, that is to say, on a globe!!!

There are numerous examples of this kind: Along a few thousand miles at the bottom of the oceans and great seas, a depth of the ocean floor/basins doesn't vary more than 100 meters or so.

I would say that this is the strongest, utterly obvious and most compelling FET proof so far!



Is there anyone who can draw a green line above, so to shape it concavely and in the same time adjust the direction of this line so to follow convex shaped surface of the ocean?

Nice youtube video : FLAT EARTH SILVER MOON : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 09:46:02 AM by cikljamas »
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #635 on: January 10, 2015, 11:14:56 AM »

<stuff repeated from here, here, and elsewhere.>
Why do you keep bringing up these already-discredited ideas? Don't you read any of the replies you get? Not everyone's memory is as bad as yours seems to be.

By the way, have you figured out why your estimates for the slopes below are wrong? Have you thought of some excuse for this blunder yet? "It's a joke" didn't work on your last one.

If you want to see how really steep these slopes (under the oceans) are, then pay attention to the left and to the right side/corner of next illustration...

Abyssal plains illustration:


It is 70 - 80 degrees steepness...
Did you miss the part that says "vertical scale greatly exaggerated" and the horizontal and vertical scales, or do you simply not know what this means and why it matters?

Are you going to claim this is another joke to try to get out of this blunder, too?

[Edit] Correct typo. Shrink cross-section.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 11:19:45 AM by Alpha2Omega »
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #636 on: January 10, 2015, 12:15:36 PM »
@ Alpha2Omega, it seems that you are desperate jerk who has no idea how to help yourself and how to escape from absolute misery which name is heliocentricity. Prove me that i am wrong. If you are the one who can draw a green line above, so to shape it concavely and in the same time adjust the direction of that line so to follow convex shaped surface of the ocean, then why don't you just do it?

We have had enough of your heliocentric nonsense, don't you think so?
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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gpssjim

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #637 on: January 10, 2015, 12:20:17 PM »

   
Quote
As you walk down the beach as it's going out, you know you are walking down hill into a concave bowl.
    The more you walk the deeper you get. You can do this at high tide. Just walk into the water and each step you will sink deeper and deeper and deeper. Why do you think this is?

Quote
Instead of changing the subject, answer the question directly, if you can!


 ??? Hi there. I'm confused about why this is such an issue with you. According to generally accepted (RE) theory, earth has a gravitational force that draws matter to its center. Water, which is a fluid will always fall to the lowest point (ie. in RE theory, the center of the earth). The "containers" of the oceans are therefore only concave at their edges and the ocean beds are generally convex (ie. follow the shape of the earth). Like someone previously stated, the ocean beds are generally not flat, but they may seem so in certain areas. Either way, the fact that water falls and collects at the "lowest" possible point and fills containers/bowls, is a simple notion that makes sense in both RE and FE theory as far as I can tell.

OCEAN BEDS ARGUMENT:

Bearing in mind thousands of miles, in the Atlantic, the Pacific, and the great Southern Ocean beds being a plane surface, we should consider what is represented in the next illustration:



Ocean waters supposedly follow general spherical shape of the Earth. Now, if we imagined 1000 miles long portion of an oceanic bed, we should suppose 200 km depth (under the ocean surface) at which this oceanic bed were situated, in order to stay below the surface of the ocean!

Otherwise, great portions of such VAST SUB-OCEANIC PLANES would cut out the curved sea level-line and protrude outward the ocean surface!

Isn't that obvious?


http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62346.msg1648925#msg1648925

Abyssal plain,  flat seafloor area at an abyssal depth (3,000 to 6,000 m [10,000 to 20,000 feet]), generally adjacent to a continent. These submarine surfaces vary in depth only from 10 to 100 cm per kilometre of horizontal distance. Irregular in outline but generally elongate along continental margins, the larger plains are hundreds of kilometres wide and thousands of kilometres long.

JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF THAT KIND (and i can show you numerous examples of the same kind):



1500 MILES LONG ABYSSAL PLAIN LINE ALONG WHICH DEPTH OF THE OCEAN DOESN'T VARY MORE THAN 100 METERS!

If we imagined a - 3000 miles long - straight line at the bottom of the ocean basin which line represents a supposed shape of the ocean basin, then the bottom of our (3000 miles long) ocean basin should be (measured right in the middle of our straight line) 1125 miles below the surface of the ocean.

Not only that the ocean basin/floor is not a convex shaped, it is not even a flat shaped, but concave!

This would be utterly impossible on a convex shaped world, that is to say, on a globe!!!

There are numerous examples of this kind: Along a few thousand miles at the bottom of the oceans and great seas, a depth of the ocean floor/basins doesn't vary more than 100 meters or so.

I would say that this is the strongest, utterly obvious and most compelling FET proof so far!



Is there anyone who can draw a green line above, so to shape it concavely and in the same time adjust the direction of this line so to follow convex shaped surface of the ocean?

Nice youtube video : FLAT EARTH SILVER MOON : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
I could, but you would like the answer.  It would be outside of the box.  It would involve adding equal potential lines to the drawing to show the gravity vector.  Or I would simple do it on a globe and mail it to you.

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mikeman7918

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #638 on: January 10, 2015, 12:36:27 PM »


The data about Abyssal plains that you are using comes from Satellites orbiting Earth that were sent up by NASA and other alleged conspirators.  By flat earther standards the information you are using is fake.  By round earther standards it's more proof that Earth is round.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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gpssjim

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #639 on: January 10, 2015, 12:51:16 PM »


The data about Abyssal plains that you are using comes from Satellites orbiting Earth that were sent up by NASA and other alleged conspirators.  By flat earther standards the information you are using is fake.  By round earther standards it's more proof that Earth is round.
Exactly!  And one of the main reasons the flat earth was abandoned was because we could not draw the whole earth in 2D.  We could get parts of the earth in 2D with relatively good accuracy, but as soon as we go to the whole world we can't do it.  So no, I can't draw some things in 2D about the earth on a large scale that don't involve some sort of projection or distortion.  Level is relative to the gravity vector, which is radially point in to the center of the earth.  You then hold that piece of paper up to the local gravity field where you are standing, and think, gosh dang, that don't look right!  Everything written on paper is a cartoon and is not reality.  Anything written on paper, even drawings, use a language.  You have to interpret the drawing with the same language it was written in.   

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #640 on: January 10, 2015, 01:30:43 PM »
@ Alpha2Omega, it seems that you are desperate jerk who has no idea how to help yourself and how to escape from absolute misery which name is heliocentricity. Prove me that i am wrong. If you are the one who can draw a green line above, so to shape it concavely and in the same time adjust the direction of that line so to follow convex shaped surface of the ocean, then why don't you just do it?

We have had enough of your heliocentric nonsense, don't you think so?

No answer, just a rant.

Do you admit that "It is 70 - 80 degrees steepness" for the continental slopes in the Abyssal Plains illustration is wrong?

After you answer this with a "yes", or "no, and here's why" that can stand scrutiny, I'll draw the illustration you ask for. The reply to your rant here will follow shortly.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #641 on: January 10, 2015, 02:50:01 PM »
Yes, i admit, now, let's see your illustration... it must be something quite amazing...
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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ausGeoff

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #642 on: January 11, 2015, 06:24:10 AM »
I'm sure by now that everybody here is getting thoroughly pissed off with the repeated insults and personal attacks that cikljamas has posted here in a crude and juvenile attempt to denigrate any opponents of his pseudo-scientific notions, (and yes, I was extremely bored tonight LOL) as per:

•  @ Alpha2Omega, it seems that you are desperate jerk who has no idea how to help yourself...

•  @ Ausgeoff, you are full of shit again...

•  @ Rottingroom, Have you ever used your brain in your whole life?

•  @ ausGeoff, had you ever written something wise and sane...

•  @ Global Conspiracy, Are you nuts, or what?

•  @ Ausgeoff, So, enjoy your party for lunatics.
 
•  @ Alpha2Omega, I've noticed that you seem completely baffled by some of the simplest things

•  @ ausgeoff, should I laugh, or should I cry?

•  @ Rottingroom, Fucking morons...

•  @ Cartesian, what are you talking about? You are very confused...

•  @ Cartesian, You are not able to notice your own nose in front of a mirror! That is a typical RE's characteristic!

•  @ Alpha2Omega, Only completely insane person would claim such claims!!!

•  @ Global Conspiracy, Fuck you NASA employees!

•  @ Global Conspiracy, Shills, how many more flat cakes I have to throw in your round face...

•  @ Mikeman7918, As for the shills, we must keep laughing...

•  @ Global Conspiracy, Stupid, isn't it? Very stupid indeed, so why don't you jut quit this stupidity?

•  @ Ausgeoff, every time you try to be a smart boy, you just help our cause...

•  @ Global Conspiracy, We have had enough of your heliocentric nonsense...

•  @ Ausgeoff, how come that after all this time, you still haven't anything else to offer to us, beside hand waving?

•  @ Alpha2Omega, it seems that you are desperate jerk...

It's now more than obvious (and this is all from a single thread) that one of the principle debating "techniques" used repeatedly by cikljamas is to mock his opponents' responses, denigrate their intellectual capabilities, and post nothing more than puerile ad hominems.  If this sort of stuff is really the best kind of defence he can mount in order to substantiate his flat earth claims, then we're all really wasting our time trying to debate meaningfully with the guy.

A couple of other things I noted as I scrolled through this thread were that cikljamas apparently bases a lot of his flat earth "theory" on the Abrahamic bible, that his understanding of geophysics and geometry is very poor, that he posts—often 3 or 4 times—exactly identical pages of copypasta, and that if he has difficulty answering a particular RE question, he invariably just ignores it until it disappears off the current page.

It should also be noted that at no stage did any moderator censure any of these off-topic, low-content, offensive comments.  I'm more than sure had I used the "F" word twice in a single thread, I would've received a slap on the wrist in minutes.  But then I'm a round earther LOL.



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gpssjim

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #643 on: January 11, 2015, 09:40:34 AM »
I'm sure by now that everybody here is getting thoroughly pissed off with the repeated insults and personal attacks that cikljamas has posted here in a crude and juvenile attempt to denigrate any opponents of his pseudo-scientific notions, (and yes, I was extremely bored tonight LOL) as per:

•  @ Alpha2Omega, it seems that you are desperate jerk who has no idea how to help yourself...

•  @ Ausgeoff, you are full of shit again...

•  @ Rottingroom, Have you ever used your brain in your whole life?

•  @ ausGeoff, had you ever written something wise and sane...

•  @ Global Conspiracy, Are you nuts, or what?

•  @ Ausgeoff, So, enjoy your party for lunatics.
 
•  @ Alpha2Omega, I've noticed that you seem completely baffled by some of the simplest things

•  @ ausgeoff, should I laugh, or should I cry?

•  @ Rottingroom, Fucking morons...

•  @ Cartesian, what are you talking about? You are very confused...

•  @ Cartesian, You are not able to notice your own nose in front of a mirror! That is a typical RE's characteristic!

•  @ Alpha2Omega, Only completely insane person would claim such claims!!!

•  @ Global Conspiracy, Fuck you NASA employees!

•  @ Global Conspiracy, Shills, how many more flat cakes I have to throw in your round face...

•  @ Mikeman7918, As for the shills, we must keep laughing...

•  @ Global Conspiracy, Stupid, isn't it? Very stupid indeed, so why don't you jut quit this stupidity?

•  @ Ausgeoff, every time you try to be a smart boy, you just help our cause...

•  @ Global Conspiracy, We have had enough of your heliocentric nonsense...

•  @ Ausgeoff, how come that after all this time, you still haven't anything else to offer to us, beside hand waving?

•  @ Alpha2Omega, it seems that you are desperate jerk...

It's now more than obvious (and this is all from a single thread) that one of the principle debating "techniques" used repeatedly by cikljamas is to mock his opponents' responses, denigrate their intellectual capabilities, and post nothing more than puerile ad hominems.  If this sort of stuff is really the best kind of defence he can mount in order to substantiate his flat earth claims, then we're all really wasting our time trying to debate meaningfully with the guy.

A couple of other things I noted as I scrolled through this thread were that cikljamas apparently bases a lot of his flat earth "theory" on the Abrahamic bible, that his understanding of geophysics and geometry is very poor, that he posts—often 3 or 4 times—exactly identical pages of copypasta, and that if he has difficulty answering a particular RE question, he invariably just ignores it until it disappears off the current page.

It should also be noted that at no stage did any moderator censure any of these off-topic, low-content, offensive comments.  I'm more than sure had I used the "F" word twice in a single thread, I would've received a slap on the wrist in minutes.  But then I'm a round earther LOL.
I didn't make the list, too new I guess.  I have noticed that FETers seem to think there is magic in words themselves, not so much in the meaning behind them.  When language was first invented by the human race, it must have seemed like magic, that sounds and scribbles could be interpreted as thoughts and ideas.  That is probably where the whole notion of magic spells came from.  Since words could inspire thoughts in humans, maybe they can also inspire thoughts in unseen forces.  A lot of the name calling is a vain attempt to cast a spell.

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #644 on: January 11, 2015, 01:44:40 PM »
I'm sure by now that everybody here is getting thoroughly pissed off with the repeated insults and personal attacks that cikljamas has posted here in a crude and juvenile attempt to denigrate any opponents of his pseudo-scientific notions, (and yes, I was extremely bored tonight LOL) as per:
...
•  @ Alpha2Omega, I've noticed that you seem completely baffled by some of the simplest things
...

Well, in cikljamas' defense, I used that line on him because it seemed to be true. I think this was in the context of why the mean solar day was longer than the sidereal day, which is quite simple, really, but turned into a struggle for understanding. Or something like that... I've slept a few times and had at least a couple beers since then.

He just copied it back verbatim. Unoriginal, I suppose, but fair if he had any real reason for believing it.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #645 on: January 11, 2015, 02:35:18 PM »
These plots are generated by Excel, then copied to Photoshop Elements and exported as .gif files and hosted on Photobucket. Photobucket seems to be shrinking the images, which reduces their readability. I think these are still OK, but I already know what they're supposed to look like.



The plot above is the profile of a hypothetical ocean basin starting with 50 km of low-elevation land, shoreline, then 50 km of gently-deepening continental shelf (to 10 m), then rapidly-deepening to 4500 m over the next 200 km. The abyssal plain is at 4500 m for the next 1350 km, where there is a mid-ocean ridge with peaks at -3000 m and -2000 km at the center of the basin. The right side is a mirror image of the left. Datum is sea level (blue line at 0 Depth) and the green line is land or seafloor. The black arrows every 500 km are local vertical, with the arrowheads pointing down. At scale, the arrows are all 15 km long and the arrowheads are 15 km wide in all the plots. Due to pixel rounding and their small size, they may sometimes appear to vary slightly. In the plot above, the arrows are considerably stretched vertically (by a factor of about 25:1), so they look much longer than they do wide. 

Here's your "tea tray" (with a bump on the middle).



This plot has X and Y at the same scale. Even showing only half the basin, it's a problem because of the vastly differing real-world length and depth dimensions, making the surface and floor of the ocean hard to distinguish on the originals, and worse here. Note that the arrows are now about as wide as they are long. When including curvature of the earth, you really can't have vertical exaggeration without causing a lot of unpleasant effects.

Switching from a sea-level datum (Bathymetry) to an X-Y (Cartesian) plane intersecting the Earth along our cross section, and replotting the above, we can still barely see the separation between surface and seafloor. Here, Y=0 is set to the middle of our basin, directly above the crest of the mid-ocean ridge. Note that the arrows are no longer parallel.



The apparent waviness of the two lines is due to pixel rounding of the sight curves and the very small separation between them on the plot.

"Zooming in" some helps, but it's still a bit "noisy".  Here, the point for the Y=0 datum has been moved from the center of the basin to the point at sea level 250 km from the left end of the model. The fact that the "tilt" of the curved surface (on the page) has reversed from the plot above is an indication that this is just an artifact of how we choose to orient our drawing; it has nothing to do with the real Earth. The arrows still continue to point so that down (on earth) is "inward" (on the curve) and converge on the center of the circle representing our surface datum.



The solution is to break the plot into manageable sections.

Let's start at the on the left at the edge of the continental rise, showing both the Cartesian plane and the Bathymetric chart of the same section of the ocean, showing 500 km at a time.

Here we're 250 km from the left edge of the model (200 km offshore):


Bathymetry:


Note that in the pair of plots above, we are directly above the toe of the continental rise; the ocean gets distinctly shallower to our left, and deepens very slightly and then maintains the same depth to our right. This is easier to see on the plot with vertical exaggeration.

Moving further to the right in our model, at the 500-km position:





Note the the down arrows in the cartesian (curved-earth) plot distinctly converge to maintain normal to the curved ocean surface (and floor, which is a concentric, slightly smaller circle); they indicate the direction used to measure depth. On the bathymetric chart, of course, the arrows are parallel because we're simply plotting depth below datum (sea level). They are still normal to the surface and floor in this chart, however.
 
The depth doesn't change at all until we start to see the mid-ocean ridge, so let's just skip on over to what we'd see when we're located at 1500 km:





The mid-ocean ridge is clearly at the right of both, with the seafloor shallowing noticeably in that direction, while maintaining the same depth it had been to the left.

This large expanse of constant depth is what constitutes the Abyssal Plain. It's described as level because it has a constant depth with respect to sea level.

[Edit] Replace stub post with actual content.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 05:08:42 PM by Alpha2Omega »
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #646 on: January 11, 2015, 03:21:53 PM »
@ Alpha2Omega, just one little hint for you: It is impossible to draw a round triangle!

Celebrate with us, Croatia has got a new president, finally, after 15 years of suffering under the rule of two atheistic, communist traitors who disgraced us (Croatian people) so much, in the eyes of the whole world!

Isn't she beautiful:



God and Croats : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Antemurale Christianitatis : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 03:24:13 PM by cikljamas »
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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gpssjim

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #647 on: January 11, 2015, 03:40:54 PM »
@ Alpha2Omega, just one little hint for you: It is impossible to draw a round triangle!

Celebrate with us, Croatia has got a new president, finally, after 15 years of suffering under the rule of two atheistic, communist traitors who disgraced us (Croatian people) so much, in the eyes of the whole world!

Isn't she beautiful:



God and Croats : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Antemurale Christianitatis : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Triangles on a sphere:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_trigonometry


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macrohard

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #648 on: January 11, 2015, 04:30:54 PM »
Disclaimer: I am a professional engineer, atheist, and round-earth enthusiast.

I strongly believe the global flood and the story of Noah is based partly on fact.  Due to earth crust displacement, a melting of the arctics and dramatic floods could occur.  Did only one family survive and save thousands of species on an arc?  Unlikely.  But such a devastating event would lead to word of mouth stories over hundreds of generations that eventually developed into modern religious fairy tales.

Most stories have some truth, regardless of how far fetched they seem.  The point is to keep an open mind and respect the beliefs of others.

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Jet Fission

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #649 on: January 11, 2015, 04:43:19 PM »
Disclaimer: I am a professional engineer, atheist, and round-earth enthusiast.

I strongly believe the global flood and the story of Noah is based partly on fact.  Due to earth crust displacement, a melting of the arctics and dramatic floods could occur.  Did only one family survive and save thousands of species on an arc?  Unlikely.  But such a devastating event would lead to word of mouth stories over hundreds of generations that eventually developed into modern religious fairy tales.

Most stories have some truth, regardless of how far fetched they seem.  The point is to keep an open mind and respect the beliefs of others.

There was no global flood. Local floods, just as they happen today, yes. There is no evidence of it what-so-ever. Just because there are stories about floods that have been passed down from some societies around the world does not mean there was a global flood. Floods are common around the world. What is even more far fetched, is the story of Noah, and I am appalled that you consider it as fact. Considering that yes, there are many flood myths, why is it that the only one you accept is the story of Noah? There are so many issues with that story, like the fact that you cannot fit 20 million animals on a wooden boat (and even if you could, they would NOT be able to reproduce reliably and without genetic problems), and 11 humans and inscest would lead to massive genetic problems which would have made it impossible for us to have reproduced to 7 billion today. Not 11 humans, not 50, not 100, not 500. It's just stupid.
To a flat earth theorist, being a "skeptic" is to have confirmation bias.
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Alpha2Omega

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #650 on: January 11, 2015, 05:12:43 PM »
Yes, i admit, now, let's see your illustration... it must be something quite amazing...

Thanks.

Your requested plots are here, a few posts ago. Sorry for the delay, it takes time to put this stuff together and I do have other things to do.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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kman

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #651 on: January 11, 2015, 05:18:11 PM »
Disclaimer: I am a professional engineer, atheist, and round-earth enthusiast.

I strongly believe the global flood and the story of Noah is based partly on fact.  Due to earth crust displacement, a melting of the arctics and dramatic floods could occur.  Did only one family survive and save thousands of species on an arc?  Unlikely.  But such a devastating event would lead to word of mouth stories over hundreds of generations that eventually developed into modern religious fairy tales.

Most stories have some truth, regardless of how far fetched they seem.  The point is to keep an open mind and respect the beliefs of others.

I'm sorry, how does "earth crust displacement" lead to a global flood. If you are talking about hydroplate theory, that is a theory made as a justification for creationism. It doesn't have any evidence to back it up, it was only made to explain the global flood.
There was not global flood. The evidence against a global flood is endless.
I do agree that there were local floods, probably disastrous ones, that were the origin of Noah's Arch.
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Alpha2Omega

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #652 on: January 11, 2015, 05:19:07 PM »
@ Alpha2Omega, just one little hint for you: It is impossible to draw a round triangle!

??? I presume you're referring to the arrows in the above plots. The plots themselves are in a euclidian plane, no no worries.

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Congratulations and best wishes to your new president! She has taken on a very difficult job.
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Lemmiwinks

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #653 on: January 11, 2015, 05:39:28 PM »
Disclaimer: I am a professional engineer, atheist, and round-earth enthusiast.

I strongly believe the global flood and the story of Noah is based partly on fact.  Due to earth crust displacement, a melting of the arctics and dramatic floods could occur.  Did only one family survive and save thousands of species on an arc?  Unlikely.  But such a devastating event would lead to word of mouth stories over hundreds of generations that eventually developed into modern religious fairy tales.

Most stories have some truth, regardless of how far fetched they seem.  The point is to keep an open mind and respect the beliefs of others.

There was no global flood. Local floods, just as they happen today, yes. There is no evidence of it what-so-ever. Just because there are stories about floods that have been passed down from some societies around the world does not mean there was a global flood. Floods are common around the world. What is even more far fetched, is the story of Noah, and I am appalled that you consider it as fact. Considering that yes, there are many flood myths, why is it that the only one you accept is the story of Noah? There are so many issues with that story, like the fact that you cannot fit 20 million animals on a wooden boat (and even if you could, they would NOT be able to reproduce reliably and without genetic problems), and 11 humans and inscest would lead to massive genetic problems which would have made it impossible for us to have reproduced to 7 billion today. Not 11 humans, not 50, not 100, not 500. It's just stupid.

No, but the flooding of the black sea flood would fit nicely as the world flooding and being the genesis of earth flood stories. If it happened.
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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #654 on: January 12, 2015, 12:43:08 PM »
Alpha2Omega, your line is still convex, although slightly going down (lower) and up (higher) in the middle of the abyssal plain, which is to say: slightly converging towards the "centre of the globe".

So, basically if we decided to build the trans-antlantic tunnel, it's general form would look like this, according to you and your friends (worshipers of the ball):



Not like this:



On the other hand, if we allowed that this line of an ocean floor (generally convex in shape, though) converge like your computerised line describes, then i would like to put this question (with which you were already acquainted - by participating in one another thread) to you:

Which line follows which line:  Ocean floor line follows Surface of the ocean line, or vice versa?

Have you ever asked yourself how did we get uniform water LEVEL on something like this:



Has any experiment been done to confirm that the ocean surface is curved? For instance, a relatively easy experiment could be extending a straight metal rod across a bay. I have never heard of anything like that. All the evidence that it is curved is mathematical and observational(mainly astronomical). How about measuring the Earth itself?
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Mainframes

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #655 on: January 12, 2015, 02:16:28 PM »
Alpha2Omega, your line is still convex, although slightly going down (lower) and up (higher) in the middle of the abyssal plain, which is to say: slightly converging towards the "centre of the globe".

So, basically if we decided to build the trans-antlantic tunnel, it's general form would look like this, according to you and your friends (worshipers of the ball):



Not like this:



On the other hand, if we allowed that this line of an ocean floor (generally convex in shape, though) converge like your computerised line describes, then i would like to put this question (with which you were already acquainted - by participating in one another thread) to you:

Which line follows which line:  Ocean floor line follows Surface of the ocean line, or vice versa?

Have you ever asked yourself how did we get uniform water LEVEL on something like this:



Has any experiment been done to confirm that the ocean surface is curved? For instance, a relatively easy experiment could be extending a straight metal rod across a bay. I have never heard of anything like that. All the evidence that it is curved is mathematical and observational(mainly astronomical). How about measuring the Earth itself?

Did you mean other than watching ships disappear over the horizon bottom first.....?
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mikeman7918

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #656 on: January 12, 2015, 02:18:50 PM »
Light is the strangest thing there is, and it tells us that the Earth is round because of boats disappearing bottom first as they go away from you, but you can also do experiments with lasers.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #657 on: January 12, 2015, 03:19:37 PM »
Alpha2Omega, your line is still convex, although slightly going down (lower) and up (higher) in the middle of the abyssal plain, which is to say: slightly converging towards the "centre of the globe".

So, basically if we decided to build the trans-antlantic tunnel, it's general form would look like this, according to you and your friends (worshipers of the ball):



Not like this:


These are the same. Traditionally, drawings are made with down toward the bottom of the page, and that's just convention and what people are used to seeing, but it doesn't have to be this way. What would be the advantage to using the inverted, upper, drawing?

Quote
On the other hand, if we allowed that this line of an ocean floor (generally convex in shape, though) converge like your computerised line describes, then i would like to put this question (with which you were already acquainted - by participating in one another thread) to you:

Which line follows which line:  Ocean floor line follows Surface of the ocean line, or vice versa?
Neither "follows" the other; they are both pulled into a spherical shape by the force of earth's own gravity, so you have a slightly smaller sphere (the Abyssal Plain) below (inside) and concentric with a slightly larger one (the ocean surface). They both take that spherical shape for the same reason, but independent of each other.

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Have you ever asked yourself how did we get uniform water LEVEL on something like this:


Sure. The answer is because the surface of the water makes an equipotential surface; every point on it has the same potential energy. Absent forces other than gravity, such as wind, sea currents, tides, and rotation, sea level would be a perfect sphere (if you also assume the density of the interior of the Earth doesn't vary laterally). If any part of the ocean surface were higher (further from the center) than another, the water would flow from the high point into the low, until the potential was equalized.
 
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Has any experiment been done to confirm that the ocean surface is curved? For instance, a relatively easy experiment could be extending a straight metal rod across a bay. I have never heard of anything like that. All the evidence that it is curved is mathematical and observational(mainly astronomical). How about measuring the Earth itself?
Celestial navigation is an obvious answer; the vertical angle to any star at a given moment depends on your location; since the vertical is normal to a plane tangent to the (ideal) sea surface, the observed effects are consistent with the surface being spherical. It sounds like this is not the answer you're looking for, though.

The presence of the sharp horizon line at a given distance from a given height is probably the most straightforward way to measure the curvature. This is complicated by refraction for precision work even in the best circumstances, though, so that has to be accounted for.

Large-scale surveys have to allow for curvature for the loops to close. If the datum used to survey the surface is spherical in shape, the water surface must be, too, or it would change in elevation relative to the datum at the coasts.

Your metal rod would not be satisfactory because a rod long enough to show measurable curvature probably couldn't be held straight. Maybe replace the rod with a laser; you'd still have to deal with refraction, though. A laser shining through a long tube, with a way to adjust the tube for straightness, might be the best bet.

I somehow doubt this is an urgent area for research, but perhaps some college geology or geography department may have students carry out an experiment to measure this.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #658 on: January 13, 2015, 10:32:36 AM »
@Alpha2Omega, nice theory, only there isn't a shred of truth in it!

These are the same. Traditionally, drawings are made with down toward the bottom of the page, and that's just convention and what people are used to seeing, but it doesn't have to be this way. What would be the advantage to using the inverted, upper, drawing?

This is not just about the convention, this is about the reality, about the literal hypothetical shape of the trans-atlantic tunnel and how it would be really shaped on a supposed globe, also!

Neither "follows" the other; they are both pulled into a spherical shape by the force of earth's own gravity, so you have a slightly smaller sphere (the Abyssal Plain) below (inside) and concentric with a slightly larger one (the ocean surface). They both take that spherical shape for the same reason, but independent of each other...Sure. The answer is because the surface of the water makes an equipotential surface; every point on it has the same potential energy. Absent forces other than gravity, such as wind, sea currents, tides, and rotation, sea level would be a perfect sphere (if you also assume the density of the interior of the Earth doesn't vary laterally). If any part of the ocean surface were higher (further from the center) than another, the water would flow from the high point into the low, until the potential was equalized.

GOCE GEOID : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Accompanying words for a video above:

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After two years in orbit, the European Space Agency’s (ESA) Gravity field and steady-state Ocean Circulation Explorer (GOCE) is nearing the end of its planned life span in February, producing the most accurate map ever of the so-called geoid -- an Earth-encompassing spirit level and global reference surface. An unused supply of xeon fuel will allow the mission to be extended until at least the end of 2012.

Markedly different from a simple sphere or ellipsoid, the geoid is the mathematically 'true' shape of Earth. It represents a motionless global ocean but takes into account the effects of the Earth’s rotation, weight difference resulting from the position of mountains and ocean trenches, and uneven mass distribution and density variations in the planet’s interior.


Comment no. 1:

Wow, what a lumpy piece of shit planet we live on. I'm moving to the moon.

Comment no. 2:

For some reason, I don't believe this crap. So many pictures show earth as an almost round orb. why don't the real pictures we have seen over the years make the earth look like this, if this is true. april fools one day late. I guess the next thing we'll be told, is "oops, the earth really is flat.'


Comment no. 3:

So they were right about the earth being flat....at least in places

Comment no 4:

The actual shape of planet earth as revealed by #ESA  mission #GOCE GOCE Geoid

Comment no. 5:

To anyone that thinks this is a hoax, you've been misled.

A geoid accounts for gravity and density irregularities, and depicts what a mean sea level surface would be if water could freely flow across Earth's surface. Geodesy is the field of study in which measurements are made to determine the actual shape of the planet. Geophysics also uses the concept of the geoid extensively in performing experiments and observations. This updated version of the geoid is the most accurate to date, and the implications it holds in those fields of study that employ it are massive.


So, they say that the Earth looks like this, after all:



What is interesting here is that in 99 % cases you will find on the internet only upper number according to which abyssal plains vary in depth 100 cm per 1 km, although in Encyclopedia Britannica you can read these words:

These submarine surfaces vary in depth only from 10 to 100 cm per kilometre of horizontal distance, the larger plains are hundreds of kilometres wide and thousands of kilometres long.

In reality abyssal plains are flatter than Kansas, and Kansas is much flatter than a pancake.



http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume9/v9i3/kansas.html

So, to get the idea how really flat abyssal plains are, you have to imagine something flatter than these:

"The plains of Venezuela and New Granada, in South America, chiefiy on the left of the Orinoco, are termed llanos, or level fields. Often in the space of 270 square miles THE SURFACE DOES NOT VARY A SINGLE FOOT."

"The Amazon only falls 12 feet in the last 700 miles of its course; the La Plata has only a descent of one thirty-third of an inch a mile,"

A FLAT SURFACE IS THE GENERAL CONTOUR OF THE BED OF THE GREAT OCEANS FOR TENS OF THOUSANDS OF SQUARE MILES.

In above picture what we are really facing with, is kind of a timid recognition of the fact that abyssal plains are flatter than anything else in the world.

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An abyssal plain is an underwater plain on the deep ocean floor, usually found at depths between 3000 and 6000 m. Lying generally between the foot of a continental rise and a mid-ocean ridge, abyssal plains cover more than 50% of the Earth’s surface. They are among the flattest, smoothest and least explored regions on Earth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abyssal_plain

The abyssal plains cover about 30% of the Atlantic and nearly 75% of the Pacific ocean floors.

So, without the gravity, the surface of an oceans would follow the shape of the bottom of the oceans which is flat.



Now, what about the gravity?


1. In a letter to Dr. Bentley. Feb. 25th,  1692,  Newton says ;— “ That gravitation should be innate and inherent in matter, so that one body can act upon another at a  distance — is to me SO GREAT AN ABSURDITY, that I believe no man who has, in philosophical matters, a competent faculty of thinking, can ever fall into it .” Yet many have fallen into this “great  absurdity.”  Such men  therefore—according  to Newton — have not  "a competent faculty of thinking” in philosophical matters. I am happy to be in agreement with Sir Isaac on this important point.

Sir Robert Ball says: — “The law  of  gravitation ... underlies the whole of Astronomy.” (Story of the Heavens, p. 122). It does not speak very well for the Astronomy, if it is founded on an acknowledged “great absurdity.”
 
2. The idea of Earth’s rotation was not being accepted by most thinkers (in all times) because of one logical reason; objects on a rotating Earth should be repelled off the surface. Unconsciously, the Newtonian fellows sacrificed their precious gravity in order to enforce the idea of Earth’s rotation: objects on a rotating Earth are subject to  gravity which  holds  them  down. They had believed that the  sacrifice is  a matter of 0.35% of the total gravity.

Here is the precious sacrifice: if the Earth were experiencing a rotation, then the concept of gravity is useless to hold objects down. The greatest task of holding objects down on a rotating Earth (rigid and air) would become for the real-change of air pressure  in the atmosphere. The gravity would become a redundant force and should leave the Earth. The Newtonian fellows accept that, the air atmosphere undergoes a rotation with the rigid Earth. Otherwise, if the Earth rotates without the air atmosphere, it will leave the air behind; it will generate a huge dynamic pressure. Read more : http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62346.msg1645003#msg1645003

3. Take the Earth, for instance. Classical physics sees the force of gravity as some type of almost magical attractive force between stars and planets. Ether theory has a totally different view. The reason we fall back to the Earth when we jump up is not this mystical force of gravity, but rather it is because the Earth is constantly absorbing a tremendous amount of ether to keep all of its elementary particles spinning. We are just in the way of this influx. This view explains what gravity is, and also explains Tesla’s seemingly odd statement that the sun is absorbing more energy than it is radiating. The more you think about it, the more this seemingly nutty idea makes perfect sense. The sun requires a gargantuan amount of etheric energy to keep its integrity.

Once it is realised that electrons spin at speeds in excess of the speed of light, a new paradigm is born. The idea simply is that the elementary particles, by their nature, are absorbing ether all the time. This influx is what gravity is. As ether is absorbed two things happen. (1) The process enables the elementary particles to maintain their spin, and (2) Simultaneously, this etheric energy, probably stemming from what some physicists call the zero point energy realm, which is a vast reservoir of untapped energy, is transformed into electromagnetic energy. That is Grand Unification, Einstein’s dream of how to combine gravity with electromagnetism.

Tesla understood ether theory a lot better than Einstein did, and he dismissed Einstein’s famous equation E=mc2 as mathematical poppycock.

4. http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/Essays-Gravity/Download/5339

On top of that:

We know from practical experiment that water will find its level, and cannot by any possibility remain other than level, or flat, or horizontal — whatever term may be used to express the idea.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62346.msg1650046#msg1650046
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Dinosaur Neil

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #659 on: January 13, 2015, 11:28:58 AM »
I love the way a flatliner uses the opinion of Newton as a guarantee of truth, while so many of them simultaneously decry his Laws of Motion as "wrong".
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