GLOBAL CONSPIRACY

  • 1592 Replies
  • 595362 Views
*

29silhouette

  • 3374
  • +0/-0
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #450 on: December 22, 2014, 12:18:03 PM »
Bravo, you got that right. To be honest, this was joke from the beginning, i just wanted to see how fast you were going to solve this "problem"...
So then, which of your arguments are jokes and which are serious?  Because they all honestly seem like jokes.

*

cikljamas

  • 2466
  • +1/-2
  • Ex nihilo nihil fit
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #451 on: December 23, 2014, 03:09:59 AM »
Bravo, you got that right. To be honest, this was joke from the beginning, i just wanted to see how fast you were going to solve this "problem"...
So then, which of your arguments are jokes and which are serious?  Because they all honestly seem like jokes.

Aren't you able to discern joke from truth?

What would you think of me if i kept up the defense of the "trueness" of my joke although my joke is founded on obviously wrong argument?

Now, what any sane person can think about you and your "sanity" when you defend (at all cost) such obvious lie as HC theory really is?

When we call you "a shills", that is a huge compliment to you, because, weren't you a shills then you would be completely insane guys! (Mental defective league in formation...)

I hope that you realize now the true meaning/point of my joke that i have played with you.

So, don't worry, my Christmas present - (joke) is just one AND ONLY exception, all other arguments that i presented in this thread are absolutely true, relevant and irrefutable arguments!

And you know it, since you are not insane guys, you are just a shills!

Enjoy your holidays and stop enjoying your pretending lunacy!

@ 29silhouette, watch out, you are whirling 1000 miles per hour, you rush through space 67 000 miles per hour (in the orbit around the Sun), you are hurtling 500,000 MPH around a galaxy, and you retreat from an alleged 'Big Bang' at over 670,000,000 MPH!

And guess what, in spite all these unimaginable speeds to which you are submitted, you still don't feel a slightest breeze anywhere - around your round head!

And that is not all, what is absolutelly amazing is that you still don't see any problem with defending such a nonsense of a theory!

And Polaris still stands firmly FIXED in it's place, and the surfaces of all waters on the face of the Earth are still flatly flat!

Marry Christmas once more to all of you!


@ Scepti, do you know by chance, why i have to wait so long for pages on this forum to be opened? The speed of opening pages was much greater month ago...what is going on?
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #452 on: December 23, 2014, 04:51:34 AM »

@ Scepti, do you know by chance, why i have to wait so long for pages on this forum to be opened? The speed of opening pages was much greater month ago...what is going on?
Don't worry it's not a problem on your part. It's this site, it's running extremely slow for all of us. It needs maintenance but there doesn't seem to be anyone around with access to do so.
There's a topic on it in announcements.

I seem to be able to type something - press post, go shopping, swimming, paragliding, skiing, then come back to the site just in time to see the post load in.  ;D

?

inquisitive

  • 5108
  • +0/-0
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #453 on: December 23, 2014, 07:05:15 AM »

@ Scepti, do you know by chance, why i have to wait so long for pages on this forum to be opened? The speed of opening pages was much greater month ago...what is going on?
Don't worry it's not a problem on your part. It's this site, it's running extremely slow for all of us. It needs maintenance but there doesn't seem to be anyone around with access to do so.
There's a topic on it in announcements.

I seem to be able to type something - press post, go shopping, swimming, paragliding, skiing, then come back to the site just in time to see the post load in.  ;D
Skiing, is there snow in the UK?

*

Lemmiwinks

  • 2161
  • +0/-0
  • President of the Non-Conformist Zetetic Council
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #454 on: December 23, 2014, 07:30:21 AM »
Really? Get thoroughly proven wrong and then pull the "just trollin" card?

Thats a quick way to make it so no longer get responses, though I doubt you care. /shrug
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45084
  • +87/-110
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #455 on: December 23, 2014, 07:49:32 AM »
And Polaris still stands firmly FIXED in it's place, and the surfaces of all waters on the face of the Earth are still flatly flat!
Actually, Polaris is moving within the Milky Way galaxy as well and was not always the pole star.  It's just that it's far enough away that the movement relative to us is very slight.  In fact, 5000 years ago Alpha Draconis was the pole star and in about 13,000 years, Vega will be the pole star.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

29silhouette

  • 3374
  • +0/-0
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #456 on: December 23, 2014, 10:17:26 AM »
Bravo, you got that right. To be honest, this was joke from the beginning, i just wanted to see how fast you were going to solve this "problem"...
So then, which of your arguments are jokes and which are serious?  Because they all honestly seem like jokes.

Aren't you able to discern joke from truth?

What would you think of me if i kept up the defense of the "trueness" of my joke although my joke is founded on obviously wrong argument?
What would we think of you?  The same we thought of you as you kept up the defense of the "trueness" of your arguments for your pipe aimed at polaris, long exposure photography, sun reversing it's path across the sky in the arctic, magnetic field dipping needle, 1000mph wind, water level, and rivers flowing into space, and some others I'm forgetting, all of which you have founded on obviously wrong arguments.  Or were some of those actually also jokes for which you forgot to reveal?

Why would the latest, (for which you have dedicated time and effort into by making diagrams and such, all based on reasoning just as flawed as everything else you argue), suddenly be a joke?  No, I think the others are correct.  You actually realized you were mistaken, and are now trying to play it off.

?

Alpha2Omega

  • 4107
  • +1/-1
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #457 on: December 23, 2014, 02:28:02 PM »
Bravo, you got that right. To be honest, this was joke from the beginning, i just wanted to see how fast you were going to solve this "problem"...
So then, which of your arguments are jokes and which are serious?  Because they all honestly seem like jokes.

Aren't you able to discern joke from truth?

What would you think of me if i kept up the defense of the "trueness" of my joke although my joke is founded on obviously wrong argument?

Almost everything you say is founded on an obviously wrong argument, yet you keep defending (and repeating, and repeating) a lot of it. The rest is just quietly dropped.

Now that something was so obvious that even you could see it, man up! It's better to admit you're wrong when you realize your error than to pretend it's a joke.

Quote

<lecture about how good it is to be a shill>

<Statement that we're traveling really really fast!!!  Amazement we can't feel it!>

And Polaris still stands firmly FIXED in it's place, and the surfaces of all waters on the face of the Earth are still flatly flat!

First clause is clearly wrong. A moderately long-exposure photo will make that clear. No evidence in favor of the claim in the second clause.

No sanity clause in that at all. [Sorry... couldn't resist]

Quote

Marry Christmas once more to all of you!


Thanks! Happy Holidays, everyone!
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

*

29silhouette

  • 3374
  • +0/-0
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #458 on: December 23, 2014, 06:05:17 PM »
@ Scepti, how do you like my sense for humor???
Has Sceptimatic shown you his frozen lake/laser experiment yet?

Very good. They play games all day long so it's only right they get a bit back. ;D
You should show cikljamas and Saros the evidence from your laser experiment.  You'll put a damper on all us rounders once and for all with that info.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 09:54:02 AM by 29silhouette »

*

cikljamas

  • 2466
  • +1/-2
  • Ex nihilo nihil fit
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #459 on: December 24, 2014, 03:57:58 AM »
Really? Get thoroughly proven wrong and then pull the "just trollin" card?

Thats a quick way to make it so no longer get responses, though I doubt you care. /shrug

Haven't you noticed how your friends were throughly delighted after i throw before them  one wrong, but absolutely insignificant argument (which intention was nothing else but to play a little game with them)?

But why they were so delighted? Because, from the beginning of this "joke-case", they were absolutely sure that i had pulled wrong card, only they haven't had a clue why i did it! Since they thought perchance i had lost my mind, their joy was tangible, we could almost touch it. So, you should ask yourself why we couldn't have felt ever before (before i gave them this Christmas joke wrapped as a present) such a joy and delight in their words?

Because they know very well that everything else that i previously brought forward in this thread was throughly true and they also very well know that HC theory is just a big joke from bottom to top, and nothing else but a joke!

Since they have lost every single battle with me, so far, they are eager to take control over at least one thing, no matter how insignificantly this could be, no matter if it is absolutely insignificant, pure joke.

So much joy over something so insignificant is the best proof of their absolute misery, and of utter wrongness of their insane HC religion...

Why shouldn't we enhance their happiness?

Christmas' joke was about the alleged Tilt of the Earth (HC holly grail), isn't it?

So, let them read something serious about this holly grail issue:

When Heliocentrists failed to disprove the geocentric nature that we live in, they resorted to inventing assumptions, many of which are so absurd that the inventors themselves admit that they are unfalsifiable (by implication unscientific) thought-experiments. Some of these assumptions include:

    -    the alleged tilt of the earth's axis,
     
    -    the so called Copernican principle,
     
    -    positive stellar parallax,
     
    -    uniformitiy of the speed of light,
     
    -    lengh contraction
     
    -    time dilation
     
    -    denial of inertia (only accepting an imaginary and isolated "chosen" inertial frame of reference)
     
    -    the earth supposedly moving at a various speeds (in order to account for the observed eclipses)

Five-hundred years ago, you were crazy if you thought the Earth was going around the sun. Today, you are crazy if you think it is not. What changed? That is a fascinating question, one which involves profound issues of science, faith, and identity. While most people assume that it has long since been experimentally proven that the Earth is orbiting the sun, no such experimental proof ever has been obtained. As historian Lincoln Barnett states in The Universe and Dr. Einstein (which contains a foreword by Albert Einstein): "We can't feel our motion through space, nor has any physical experiment ever proved that the Earth actually is in motion."

Remarkably, physics had to be reconceptualized entirely by Einstein at the beginning of the 20th century, in part because no experiment directly had been able to measure this universally-assumed motion of the Earth around the sun. What Einstein could not foresee, however, was that the reconceptualized physics he offered in his special relativity theory in order to keep the Earth moving and the speed of light constant was superseded 10 years later by his general relativity theory which, by his own covariance equations, allowed the Earth to remain fixed and the speed of light to be variable.

Like Sisyphus rolling the huge rock up the hill only to see it fall down right before he reached the peak, in a strange way the principle of relativity made Einstein's own theories relative. Perhaps he realized this truth in his 1938 book, The Evolution of Physics, in which he said: "The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of [Claudius] Ptolemy and [Nicolaus] Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either coordinate system could be used with equal justification. The two sentences: 'the sun is at rest and the Earth moves,' or 'the sun moves and the Earth is at rest,' would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different coordinate systems."

Physicist Stephen Hawking said much the same in The Grand Design: "So which is real, the Ptolemaic or the Copernican system? Although it is not uncommon for people to say that Copernicus proved Ptolemy wrong, that is not true. As in the case of our normal view versus that of the goldfish, one can use either picture as a model of the universe, for our observations of the heavens can be explained by assuming either the Earth or the sun to be at rest."

So, two of our greatest scientific revolutions--the Copernican revolution and relativity--intimately are associated with this question of Earth's place in the larger scheme of things.

The Copernican Principle simply states that the Earth is not in any special or central location in the cosmos. It is sometimes generalized as the "cosmological principle," which holds that there are no special locations in the cosmos. On this fundamental assumption, which modern cosmology defines as the "isotropy and homogeneity of the universe," everything will look very much the same everywhere we look, and it will look very much the same no matter where we might be looking from.

If, for instance, we examine a bottle of homogenized milk, we see that there are no lumps of fat circulating in the milk nor resting on top. The milk would look the same no matter what part of it we examined. The Copernican and cosmological principles say much the same about the universe. Its matter and space are homogenized, as it were. To say it another way, these principles state that we are not able to distinguish one place from another in the universe. There is no up nor down, no left nor right, and no place where either we nor ET can claim to be in a special or central location.

This principle is named after Copernicus, since, in the 16th century, he revived the ancient Greek Pythagorean model that took Earth out of the center and put it among the other celestial bodies. As we then grew in our knowledge of the vastness of the universe from such icons as Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton, Ernst Mach, and Edwin Hubble, it was then we found out precisely what Copernicus' removal of Earth from the center meant, as Carl Sagan stated so eerily in Cosmos: "We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost between two spiral arms in the outskirts of a galaxy which is a member of a sparse cluster of galaxies, tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."

Copernican Principle is not a scientific fact, but rather a metaphysical assumption supported by profoundly convincing ideas and theories.

For thousands of years, there was a prevailing geocentric view of the cosmos, in which the Earth was believed to be the centre of the universe. By looking up at the sky and seeing the Sun, Moon, planets, and stars moving about Earth along circular paths day after day, it seemed evident to ancient people that the Earth was stationary and the rest of the universe moved around it.  Such a perspective was also in accordance with the God-centred worldview which maintained that a god or gods created us, and that there is a purpose to this creation.

The ancients were more than intelligent enough to understand that the same observational phenomena would be equally attributable to a rotation of the earth on its axis. So, why then was this perspective not adopted in ancient times?

“The simple truth is that the ancient world found it more plausible to believe that we were clearly the focus and centre of what we saw going around us”

The Danish astronomer Tycho Brahe (1546-1601), a brilliant experimental scientist whose measurements of the positions of the stars and planets surpassed any that were made prior to the invention of the telescope, proposed a model that attempted to serve as a compromise between the geocentric explanation and the Copernican theory.  In this model, all planets except the Earth revolve around the Sun. In other words, the planets revolve around the Sun, and the Sun revolves around the Earth.

“The remarkable thing is that the Tycho system absolutely duplicates the observations we see in the sky just as the heliocentric system does. There is no visual distinction at all between the Tycho system and the Copernican system.”


“For two centuries the greatest scientists in the world tried to come up with an experiment that would measure that motion of the earth around the sun, that everyone almost knew was obviously occurring. But paradoxically, for two centuries every one of these experiments that tried to measure this universally assumed motion of the Earth around the Sun kept returning a value of zero for the motion of the earth, and this became a really big issue in science.”


Over the last decade, a number of anomalous cosmological observations have emerged which do not make sense according to the Copernican Principle, the latest being the Planck satellite results of March 2013.  While the science behind the findings is complex, to put it simply, the Copernican Principle requires that any variation in the radiation from the Cosmic Microwave Background (thermal radiation assumed to be left over from the ‘Big Bang’) be more or less randomly distributed throughout the universe.  However, the results of three separate missions, starting with the WMAP satellite in 2001, has shown anomalies in the background radiation which are aligned directly with the plane of our solar system and the equator of the Earth. This never-before-seen alignment of the Earth results in an axis through the universe, which scientists have dubbed the ‘Axis of Evil’, owing to the shocking implications for current models of the cosmos.

Laurence Krauss, American theoretical physicist and cosmologist, commented in 2005:

    "When you look at [the cosmic microwave background] map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That’s crazy. We’re looking out at the whole universe. There’s no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe."

Cosmologists, astrophysicists, and others initially brushed off the strange finding as an artifact, and dozens of papers and reports followed trying to address the anomaly. But when the Planck results returned in March 2013, the alignment showed up in yet even higher resolution and detail, and has now been replicated across three separate missions, suggesting there is something more than an ‘artifact’ that is going on here.

“The thing that has really launched the media hysteria about our film, is that we are pulling the covers off the dirty little secret that not only is there structure, that structure is related in astonishing ways to one and precisely one location in the universe, and it happens to be us!"

So much about the alleged tilt of the Earth!

After you read above words, you should ask yourself what does it mean when you wish someone a MARRY CHRISTMAS!!!





"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

?

inquisitive

  • 5108
  • +0/-0
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #460 on: December 24, 2014, 05:35:26 AM »
Bold
Italics
Underline
Large font
Color

Just observe sunrise and sunset at different locations on earth to understand its shape.

*

cikljamas

  • 2466
  • +1/-2
  • Ex nihilo nihil fit
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #461 on: December 24, 2014, 06:10:10 AM »
Bold
Italics
Underline
Large font
Color

Just observe sunrise and sunset at different locations on earth to understand its shape.

Just observe this once more:

Quote
When Heliocentrists failed to disprove the geocentric nature that we live in, they resorted to inventing assumptions, many of which are so absurd that the inventors themselves admit that they are unfalsifiable (by implication unscientific) thought-experiments. Some of these assumptions include:

    -    the alleged tilt of the earth's axis,
     
    -    the so called Copernican principle,
     
    -    positive stellar parallax,
     
    -    uniformitiy of the speed of light,
     
    -    lengh contraction
     
    -    time dilation
     
    -    denial of inertia (only accepting an imaginary and isolated "chosen" inertial frame of reference)
     
    -    the earth supposedly moving at a various speeds (in order to account for the observed eclipses)

Five-hundred years ago, you were crazy if you thought the Earth was going around the sun. Today, you are crazy if you think it is not. What changed? That is a fascinating question, one which involves profound issues of science, faith, and identity. While most people assume that it has long since been experimentally proven that the Earth is orbiting the sun, no such experimental proof ever has been obtained. As historian Lincoln Barnett states in The Universe and Dr. Einstein (which contains a foreword by Albert Einstein): "We can't feel our motion through space, nor has any physical experiment ever proved that the Earth actually is in motion."

Remarkably, physics had to be reconceptualized entirely by Einstein at the beginning of the 20th century, in part because no experiment directly had been able to measure this universally-assumed motion of the Earth around the sun. What Einstein could not foresee, however, was that the reconceptualized physics he offered in his special relativity theory in order to keep the Earth moving and the speed of light constant was superseded 10 years later by his general relativity theory which, by his own covariance equations, allowed the Earth to remain fixed and the speed of light to be variable.

Like Sisyphus rolling the huge rock up the hill only to see it fall down right before he reached the peak, in a strange way the principle of relativity made Einstein's own theories relative. Perhaps he realized this truth in his 1938 book, The Evolution of Physics, in which he said: "The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of [Claudius] Ptolemy and [Nicolaus] Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either coordinate system could be used with equal justification. The two sentences: 'the sun is at rest and the Earth moves,' or 'the sun moves and the Earth is at rest,' would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different coordinate systems."

Physicist Stephen Hawking said much the same in The Grand Design: "So which is real, the Ptolemaic or the Copernican system? Although it is not uncommon for people to say that Copernicus proved Ptolemy wrong, that is not true. As in the case of our normal view versus that of the goldfish, one can use either picture as a model of the universe, for our observations of the heavens can be explained by assuming either the Earth or the sun to be at rest."

So, two of our greatest scientific revolutions--the Copernican revolution and relativity--intimately are associated with this question of Earth's place in the larger scheme of things.

The Copernican Principle simply states that the Earth is not in any special or central location in the cosmos. It is sometimes generalized as the "cosmological principle," which holds that there are no special locations in the cosmos. On this fundamental assumption, which modern cosmology defines as the "isotropy and homogeneity of the universe," everything will look very much the same everywhere we look, and it will look very much the same no matter where we might be looking from.

If, for instance, we examine a bottle of homogenized milk, we see that there are no lumps of fat circulating in the milk nor resting on top. The milk would look the same no matter what part of it we examined. The Copernican and cosmological principles say much the same about the universe. Its matter and space are homogenized, as it were. To say it another way, these principles state that we are not able to distinguish one place from another in the universe. There is no up nor down, no left nor right, and no place where either we nor ET can claim to be in a special or central location.

This principle is named after Copernicus, since, in the 16th century, he revived the ancient Greek Pythagorean model that took Earth out of the center and put it among the other celestial bodies. As we then grew in our knowledge of the vastness of the universe from such icons as Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton, Ernst Mach, and Edwin Hubble, it was then we found out precisely what Copernicus' removal of Earth from the center meant, as Carl Sagan stated so eerily in Cosmos: "We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost between two spiral arms in the outskirts of a galaxy which is a member of a sparse cluster of galaxies, tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."

Copernican Principle is not a scientific fact, but rather a metaphysical assumption supported by profoundly convincing ideas and theories.

For thousands of years, there was a prevailing geocentric view of the cosmos, in which the Earth was believed to be the centre of the universe. By looking up at the sky and seeing the Sun, Moon, planets, and stars moving about Earth along circular paths day after day, it seemed evident to ancient people that the Earth was stationary and the rest of the universe moved around it.  Such a perspective was also in accordance with the God-centred worldview which maintained that a god or gods created us, and that there is a purpose to this creation.

The ancients were more than intelligent enough to understand that the same observational phenomena would be equally attributable to a rotation of the earth on its axis. So, why then was this perspective not adopted in ancient times?

“The simple truth is that the ancient world found it more plausible to believe that we were clearly the focus and centre of what we saw going around us”

The Danish astronomer Tycho Brahe (1546-1601), a brilliant experimental scientist whose measurements of the positions of the stars and planets surpassed any that were made prior to the invention of the telescope, proposed a model that attempted to serve as a compromise between the geocentric explanation and the Copernican theory.  In this model, all planets except the Earth revolve around the Sun. In other words, the planets revolve around the Sun, and the Sun revolves around the Earth.

“The remarkable thing is that the Tycho system absolutely duplicates the observations we see in the sky just as the heliocentric system does. There is no visual distinction at all between the Tycho system and the Copernican system.”


“For two centuries the greatest scientists in the world tried to come up with an experiment that would measure that motion of the earth around the sun, that everyone almost knew was obviously occurring. But paradoxically, for two centuries every one of these experiments that tried to measure this universally assumed motion of the Earth around the Sun kept returning a value of zero for the motion of the earth, and this became a really big issue in science.”


Over the last decade, a number of anomalous cosmological observations have emerged which do not make sense according to the Copernican Principle, the latest being the Planck satellite results of March 2013.  While the science behind the findings is complex, to put it simply, the Copernican Principle requires that any variation in the radiation from the Cosmic Microwave Background (thermal radiation assumed to be left over from the ‘Big Bang’) be more or less randomly distributed throughout the universe.  However, the results of three separate missions, starting with the WMAP satellite in 2001, has shown anomalies in the background radiation which are aligned directly with the plane of our solar system and the equator of the Earth. This never-before-seen alignment of the Earth results in an axis through the universe, which scientists have dubbed the ‘Axis of Evil’, owing to the shocking implications for current models of the cosmos.

Laurence Krauss, American theoretical physicist and cosmologist, commented in 2005:

    "When you look at [the cosmic microwave background] map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That’s crazy. We’re looking out at the whole universe. There’s no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe."

Cosmologists, astrophysicists, and others initially brushed off the strange finding as an artifact, and dozens of papers and reports followed trying to address the anomaly. But when the Planck results returned in March 2013, the alignment showed up in yet even higher resolution and detail, and has now been replicated across three separate missions, suggesting there is something more than an ‘artifact’ that is going on here.

“The thing that has really launched the media hysteria about our film, is that we are pulling the covers off the dirty little secret that not only is there structure, that structure is related in astonishing ways to one and precisely one location in the universe, and it happens to be us!"

So much about the alleged tilt of the Earth!

For additional clarification i suggest you to read this article:

http://magisterialfundies.blogspot.com/2012/01/discussion-on-geocentrism.html

It's about this:

This Axis of Evil is aligned in astonishingly precise ways with:

1. The Galactic North Pole

2. The ecliptic plane

3. The equinoxes

The complete ensemble of such orientations being unlikely to a combined degree of approximately one in one hundred billion.



"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

*

mikeman7918

  • 5431
  • +0/-0
  • Round Earther
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #462 on: December 24, 2014, 09:34:20 AM »
Bold
Italics
Underline
Large font
Color

Just observe sunrise and sunset at different locations on earth to understand its shape.

Just observe this once more:

Quote
When Heliocentrists failed to disprove the geocentric nature that we live in, they resorted to inventing assumptions, many of which are so absurd that the inventors themselves admit that they are unfalsifiable (by implication unscientific) thought-experiments. Some of these assumptions include:

    -    the alleged tilt of the earth's axis,
     
    -    the so called Copernican principle,
     
    -    positive stellar parallax,
     
    -    uniformitiy of the speed of light,
     
    -    lengh contraction
     
    -    time dilation
     
    -    denial of inertia (only accepting an imaginary and isolated "chosen" inertial frame of reference)
     
    -    the earth supposedly moving at a various speeds (in order to account for the observed eclipses)

Five-hundred years ago, you were crazy if you thought the Earth was going around the sun. Today, you are crazy if you think it is not. What changed? That is a fascinating question, one which involves profound issues of science, faith, and identity. While most people assume that it has long since been experimentally proven that the Earth is orbiting the sun, no such experimental proof ever has been obtained. As historian Lincoln Barnett states in The Universe and Dr. Einstein (which contains a foreword by Albert Einstein): "We can't feel our motion through space, nor has any physical experiment ever proved that the Earth actually is in motion."

Remarkably, physics had to be reconceptualized entirely by Einstein at the beginning of the 20th century, in part because no experiment directly had been able to measure this universally-assumed motion of the Earth around the sun. What Einstein could not foresee, however, was that the reconceptualized physics he offered in his special relativity theory in order to keep the Earth moving and the speed of light constant was superseded 10 years later by his general relativity theory which, by his own covariance equations, allowed the Earth to remain fixed and the speed of light to be variable.

Like Sisyphus rolling the huge rock up the hill only to see it fall down right before he reached the peak, in a strange way the principle of relativity made Einstein's own theories relative. Perhaps he realized this truth in his 1938 book, The Evolution of Physics, in which he said: "The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of [Claudius] Ptolemy and [Nicolaus] Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either coordinate system could be used with equal justification. The two sentences: 'the sun is at rest and the Earth moves,' or 'the sun moves and the Earth is at rest,' would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different coordinate systems."

Physicist Stephen Hawking said much the same in The Grand Design: "So which is real, the Ptolemaic or the Copernican system? Although it is not uncommon for people to say that Copernicus proved Ptolemy wrong, that is not true. As in the case of our normal view versus that of the goldfish, one can use either picture as a model of the universe, for our observations of the heavens can be explained by assuming either the Earth or the sun to be at rest."

So, two of our greatest scientific revolutions--the Copernican revolution and relativity--intimately are associated with this question of Earth's place in the larger scheme of things.

The Copernican Principle simply states that the Earth is not in any special or central location in the cosmos. It is sometimes generalized as the "cosmological principle," which holds that there are no special locations in the cosmos. On this fundamental assumption, which modern cosmology defines as the "isotropy and homogeneity of the universe," everything will look very much the same everywhere we look, and it will look very much the same no matter where we might be looking from.

If, for instance, we examine a bottle of homogenized milk, we see that there are no lumps of fat circulating in the milk nor resting on top. The milk would look the same no matter what part of it we examined. The Copernican and cosmological principles say much the same about the universe. Its matter and space are homogenized, as it were. To say it another way, these principles state that we are not able to distinguish one place from another in the universe. There is no up nor down, no left nor right, and no place where either we nor ET can claim to be in a special or central location.

This principle is named after Copernicus, since, in the 16th century, he revived the ancient Greek Pythagorean model that took Earth out of the center and put it among the other celestial bodies. As we then grew in our knowledge of the vastness of the universe from such icons as Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton, Ernst Mach, and Edwin Hubble, it was then we found out precisely what Copernicus' removal of Earth from the center meant, as Carl Sagan stated so eerily in Cosmos: "We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost between two spiral arms in the outskirts of a galaxy which is a member of a sparse cluster of galaxies, tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."

Copernican Principle is not a scientific fact, but rather a metaphysical assumption supported by profoundly convincing ideas and theories.

For thousands of years, there was a prevailing geocentric view of the cosmos, in which the Earth was believed to be the centre of the universe. By looking up at the sky and seeing the Sun, Moon, planets, and stars moving about Earth along circular paths day after day, it seemed evident to ancient people that the Earth was stationary and the rest of the universe moved around it.  Such a perspective was also in accordance with the God-centred worldview which maintained that a god or gods created us, and that there is a purpose to this creation.

The ancients were more than intelligent enough to understand that the same observational phenomena would be equally attributable to a rotation of the earth on its axis. So, why then was this perspective not adopted in ancient times?

“The simple truth is that the ancient world found it more plausible to believe that we were clearly the focus and centre of what we saw going around us”

The Danish astronomer Tycho Brahe (1546-1601), a brilliant experimental scientist whose measurements of the positions of the stars and planets surpassed any that were made prior to the invention of the telescope, proposed a model that attempted to serve as a compromise between the geocentric explanation and the Copernican theory.  In this model, all planets except the Earth revolve around the Sun. In other words, the planets revolve around the Sun, and the Sun revolves around the Earth.

“The remarkable thing is that the Tycho system absolutely duplicates the observations we see in the sky just as the heliocentric system does. There is no visual distinction at all between the Tycho system and the Copernican system.”


“For two centuries the greatest scientists in the world tried to come up with an experiment that would measure that motion of the earth around the sun, that everyone almost knew was obviously occurring. But paradoxically, for two centuries every one of these experiments that tried to measure this universally assumed motion of the Earth around the Sun kept returning a value of zero for the motion of the earth, and this became a really big issue in science.”


Over the last decade, a number of anomalous cosmological observations have emerged which do not make sense according to the Copernican Principle, the latest being the Planck satellite results of March 2013.  While the science behind the findings is complex, to put it simply, the Copernican Principle requires that any variation in the radiation from the Cosmic Microwave Background (thermal radiation assumed to be left over from the ‘Big Bang’) be more or less randomly distributed throughout the universe.  However, the results of three separate missions, starting with the WMAP satellite in 2001, has shown anomalies in the background radiation which are aligned directly with the plane of our solar system and the equator of the Earth. This never-before-seen alignment of the Earth results in an axis through the universe, which scientists have dubbed the ‘Axis of Evil’, owing to the shocking implications for current models of the cosmos.

Laurence Krauss, American theoretical physicist and cosmologist, commented in 2005:

    "When you look at [the cosmic microwave background] map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That’s crazy. We’re looking out at the whole universe. There’s no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe."

Cosmologists, astrophysicists, and others initially brushed off the strange finding as an artifact, and dozens of papers and reports followed trying to address the anomaly. But when the Planck results returned in March 2013, the alignment showed up in yet even higher resolution and detail, and has now been replicated across three separate missions, suggesting there is something more than an ‘artifact’ that is going on here.

“The thing that has really launched the media hysteria about our film, is that we are pulling the covers off the dirty little secret that not only is there structure, that structure is related in astonishing ways to one and precisely one location in the universe, and it happens to be us!"

So much about the alleged tilt of the Earth!

For additional clarification i suggest you to read this article:

http://magisterialfundies.blogspot.com/2012/01/discussion-on-geocentrism.html

It's about this:

This Axis of Evil is aligned in astonishingly precise ways with:

1. The Galactic North Pole

2. The ecliptic plane

3. The equinoxes

The complete ensemble of such orientations being unlikely to a combined degree of approximately one in one hundred billion.

The probability that you or me would exist in our exact form with our exact genetic code is even more unlikely then that, what's your point?  Unlikely things can happen, for example, one time I met my friend that I knew through the internet in the lobby of a game that anyone in the world with that game could have joined, and against all odds it was him.  Do you see what I mean, just because something is unlikely doesn't mean that it's impossible.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

?

Alpha2Omega

  • 4107
  • +1/-1
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #463 on: December 24, 2014, 03:46:04 PM »
Bold
Italics
Underline
Large font
Color

Just observe sunrise and sunset at different locations on earth to understand its shape.

Just observe this once more:

Quote
When Heliocentrists failed to disprove the geocentric nature that we live in, they resorted to inventing assumptions, many of which are so absurd that the inventors themselves admit that they are unfalsifiable (by implication unscientific) thought-experiments. Some of these assumptions include:

<Obviously another "joke">

So much about the alleged tilt of the Earth!

For additional clarification i suggest you to read this article:

http://magisterialfundies.blogspot.com/2012/01/discussion-on-geocentrism.html

It's about this:

This Axis of Evil is aligned in astonishingly precise ways with:

1. The Galactic North Pole

2. The ecliptic plane

3. The equinoxes

The complete ensemble of such orientations being unlikely to a combined degree of approximately one in one hundred billion.

The "astonishingly precise" alignments are more like "kinda sorta", and some of those are a stretch, but interesting, nonetheless, if they're true. The linked blog mentions further studies, but doesn't give any actual citations. Any follow-up in Astronomy Magazine, the main source for this blog or, better, peer-reviewed journals?

The article from the December, 2007 issue of Astronomy linked from the blog is certainly a major improvement over the sort of references your sources relied on in the past, so there's a win. Do keep in mind, though, that Astronomy is trying to sell magazines, and publishes articles about research that is producing "interesting", but often unconfirmed, results that may tickle the fancy of the public. That's why the request for follow-on, especially, if possible, from refereed journals.

Oh, yes, on the last page of the pdf of the Astronomy article (p.43 of the magazine), referring to another team analyzing the same data set:

Quote from:  Dragan Huterer
They have humorously dubbed this odd alignment — apparently the same one we found — the “axis of evil.”
It was a joke![nb]"Axis of evil" was a line from George W. Bush's 2002 State of the Union speech (the first following the 9/11/2001 attacks) describing Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya, and Cuba - all states very unfriendly to the US. The moniker was quite the thing for years afterwards, but is mostly forgotten now.[/nb]
 
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

*

cikljamas

  • 2466
  • +1/-2
  • Ex nihilo nihil fit
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #464 on: December 25, 2014, 03:34:53 AM »
The probability that you or me would exist in our exact form with our exact genetic code is even more unlikely then that, what's your point?  Unlikely things can happen, for example, one time I met my friend that I knew through the internet in the lobby of a game that anyone in the world with that game could have joined, and against all odds it was him.  Do you see what I mean, just because something is unlikely doesn't mean that it's impossible.

Cosmologist and mathematician Roger Penrose once attempted to calculate the probability that chance allowed the initial state of the universe and its entropy to be exactly 'right' to allow it to still exist now. His answer was 1 chance in 10^10^123, a probability so small as to effectively be zero. To get a picture of this number, note that the number of baryons (protons & neutrons) in the universe is estimated to be about 10^80. We could write that number as 1 followed by 80 zeros. But to write Penrose's number would require 1 followed by a zero on every baryon in the universe, and then more.

From: Eich
Subject: Googolplex

Can you tell me how many sheets of paper it will take to make a
googolplex if you can have 20,000 zeros on each page?

Thanks.

Date: 11/18/97 at 12:11:47
From: Doctor Rob
Subject: Re: Googolplex

Since a googolplex is N = 10^(10^100), there are 10^100 zeroes in
its decimal form. If 20,000 = 2*10^4 fit on one page, you will need
(10^100)/(2*10^4) = 5*10^95 pages.

-Doctor Rob,  The Math Forum
 Check out our web site!  http://mathforum.org/dr.math/ 

Well, first let's make sure that you mean a googolplex, and not some
smaller number, like a googol. You will remember that a googol is the
number that is written by putting down a 1, then following that on the
right with 100 zeros, i.e., it is the number 10^100. (Just so you
know: computers are not good at writing exponents.  So when I write
10^100, the 100 is the exponent.)

This is a really big number, of course. For instance, the number of
seconds since the beginning of time is only about a 1 followed by
18 zeros, and the number of atoms in the entire universe is
estimated to be only about 10^80, a 1 followed by 80 zeros, so you'd
need 10^20 (written out: 100000000000000000000 [that's a 1 followed by
20 zeros]) universes to have a googol of atoms. (Still with me?  This
stuff gets pretty spacey after a while...).

Now a googolplex is a 1 followed by a *googol* of zeros. That's a
truly humungous number. In fact, if you took all the atoms in the
*entire universe* and lined them up, put a l on the first one, and 0's
on all the rest, you still would not have been able to write down a
googolplex, since there are only 10^80 atoms, and you need to write
10^100 zeros.

Read more : http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/59174.html

Origin-of-life researcher Leslie Orgel points out:

    "The self-organization of the reductive citric acid cycle without the help of 'informational' catalysts would be a near miracle...It is hard to see how any..[of the potentially self-replicating] polymers that have been described up to now...could have accumulated on the early earth...[It is] to appeal to magic."

Astrophysicist  Sir Fred Hoyle has said:

    "If there were some deep principle that drove organic systems toward living systems, the operation of the principle should easily be demonstrable in a test tube in half a morning….No such demonstration has ever been given. Nothing happens…except the eventual production of a tarry sludge."

Modern understanding of molecular biology allows scientists to calculate the probability of abiogenesis. Such calculations are not a proof, but since neo-Darwinism is based on random mutations, they are an important predictor of its validity. Probability was not an issue up through 1965, when scientists believed an infinite amount of time was available because the universe was eternal. But it is a critical issue now that science estimates Earth is only ~4.6 billion years old, which allows substantially less time for slow evolutionary processes to produce the planet and life we observe.

As an example, cytochrome c, a small protein found throughout the biological realm, had to appear early in the evolutionary process. Yet information theorist Hubert Yockey calculated a probability of 10^-75 to generate it spontaneously from an amino acid-rich environment.7 To put this into perspective: a 10^-75 chance is less likely than winning the Powerball lottery nine weeks in a row, buying only one ticket per week!

But it gets worse. Life is composed of many more-complex molecules than cytochrome c. Murray Eden of Massachusetts Institute of Technology calculated a probability of ~10-313 to spontaneously bring polypeptide sequences together into functional proteins. Simple self-sustaining life requires ~1,500-2,000 gene products, and Hoyle estimated a probability of 10^-40,000 to obtain 2,000 enzymes in a random trial. Physicist Harold Morowitz has calculated that if a large batch of bacteria in a sealed container is heated so every chemical bond is broken, then cooled slowly to allow the atoms to form new bonds and come to equilibrium, there is a probability of 10^-100,000,000,000 that a living bacterium will be present at the end.

How low a probability do mathematicians believe makes an event essentially impossible? Émile Borel has estimated 10^-50; and William Dembski has calculated a lower limit of 10^-150, based on the number of elementary particles in the universe and the age of the universe. Yet the probability of abiogenesis is far, far less than either figure!

Could the genetic code have been spontaneously generated? Biologists J. T. Trevors and D. L. Abel conclude:

    "The argument has been repeatedly made that given sufficient time, a genetic instruction set and language system could have arisen. But extended time does not provide an explanatory mechanism for spontaneously generated genetic instruction. No amount of time proposed thus far, can explain this type of conceptual communication system. It is not just complex. It is conceptually complex."

These probability arguments are irrefutable. Some evolutionists offer hand-waving contrary arguments, but even Richard Dawkins admits "the probability of life having arisen by chance is as vanishingly small as the likelihood of a Jumbo Jet having being constructed by a hurricane sweeping through a scrap yard."

And these calculations do not even consider the seemingly insurmountable obstacle first discovered by Louis Pasteur. Life consists of only "left-handed" amino acids and "right-handed" sugars, but a random primordial soup would have contained equal proportions of molecules in left-handed and right-handed configurations.

Even in defending abiogenesis, biologist Francis Crick acknowledged in 1981:

    "An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to be satisfied to get it going."

Abiogenesis is not only unproven, it is mathematically impossible.
No wonder both Orgel and Crick called it a miracle. Other scenarios have therefore been suggested. Hoyle and others postulate life was transplanted from outer space —which moves the origins problem to another time and place. The multiverse hypothesis, proposed by leading origin-of-life researcher Eugene Koonin, is currently in vogue—it replaces infinite time with an infinity of universes to account for the extraordinarily improbable existence of at least one life-sustaining planet.

The real answer may be that abiogenesis is the creation myth of a culture with no need for God—a culture to which physicist Lee Smolin can proclaim: "there is nothing outside the universe."16 This statement is an unsustainable myth, yet a creator is the only alternative to abiogenesis, and this undermines the mythological foundation of the faith of atheists.

According to Lynn Margulis, the proponents of Neo-Darwinism constitute “a minor twentieth-century religious sect within the sprawling religious persuasion of Anglo-Saxon Biology”. (Mann, C. (1991). "Lynn Margulis: Science's Unruly Earth Mother". Science 252 (5004): 378–381).

She also believed that proponents of the standard theory "wallow in their zoological, capitalistic, competitive, cost-benefit interpretation of Darwin – having mistaken him... Neo-Darwinism, which insists on [the slow accrual of mutations by gene-level natural selection], is in a complete funk." (Mann, C. (1991). "Lynn Margulis: Science's Unruly Earth Mother". Science 252 (5004): 378–381).

“I work in evolutionary biology, but with cells and micro-organisms. Richard Dawkins, John Maynard Smith, George Williams, Richard Lewontin, Niles Eldredge and Stephen Jay Gould all come out of the zoological tradition, which suggests to me that, in the words of our colleague Simon Robson, they deal with a data set some three billion years out of date.” (The New York Times, November 24, 2011)

There was another prominent biologist, Ernst Mayr (1904 – 2005), who was the first author to develop a detailed model of the connection between speciation, evolutionary rates, and macroevolution in 1954. Although initially ignored, his theory of the importance of peripatric speciation in macroevolution is now widely recognized. It means that scientists from various sides have attacked Darwinism. Ernst Mayer’s theories of Speciational Evolution and Punctuated Equilibria, although consistent with Darwinism, nonetheless undermined Darwin’s “gradualism” in evolution just as Lynn Morgulis’ Serial Endosymbiotic Theory undermined the idea of invariable “selfishness” of the evolving species.

One of the reasons why Darwin’s theory remains so revered to this day can be explained by the words of Ernst Mayr, who wrote: "Now a third one of Darwin's great contributions was that he replaced theological, or supernatural, science with secular science. Laplace, of course, had already done this some 50 years earlier when he explained the whole world to Napoleon. After his explanation, Napoleon replied, "where is God in your theory?" And Laplace answered, "I don't need that hypothesis." Darwin's explanation that all things have a natural cause made the belief in a creatively superior mind quite unnecessary. He created a secular world, more so than anyone before him. Certainly many forces were verging in that same direction, but Darwin's work was the crashing arrival of this idea and from that point on, the secular viewpoint of the world became virtually universal”. (What Evolution Is by Ernst Mayr — ScienceMasters Series/Basic Books; October 2001, http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/mayr/mayr_print.html, accessed 10-13-04).

People like Dawkins in England who still think the gene is the target of selection are evidently wrong. In the 30s and 40s, it was widely accepted that genes were the target of selection, because that was the only way they could be made accessible to mathematics, but now we know that it is really the whole genotype of the individual, not the gene.

People like Richard Dawkins are engaged in propaganda of anti-religion thoughts and sentiments. His quest is against Christianity even at the expense of science and scientific truth. The fact that the endosymbiotic theory had been actively suppressed for about a hundred years before it was finally accepted by the established scientific community is emblematic of the capitalist period of the Anglo-American civilization, which is more interested in propagating any pseudoscientific theory that most effectively justifies its rulers’ predatory, selfish foreign policies toward external nations and peoples. That is why natural sciences have been turned into a special instrument of indoctrination and ideological propaganda and true scientific discoveries so often met with “knee-jerk” reaction. As long as the predatory policies persist, the Neo-Darwinism will remain relevant to the contemporary level of social relations in traditional capitalist society, no matter how outdated it gets scientifically.

The ruling minority elite needs public consciousness to match their criminal, predatory policies. That is why primitive Darwinism retains its positions in public debate so far. Therefore, people in general are being educated that they are “predators”, who are destined to eat each other out. As long as the ruling classes continue to succeed in their quest to forestall the evolvement of the general social consciousness of the people, whom they desperately try to control, the gap between the proper scientific advances and general public’s scientific awareness will increase…

Read more : http://serge-malov.livejournal.com/28768.html

In addition : Former leading atheist argues for the existence of God : http://creation.com/review-there-is-a-god-by-antony-flew
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • +1/-1
  • Extra Racist
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #465 on: December 25, 2014, 09:53:03 AM »
Why are old world monkeys only found in Africa and Asia and new world monkeys are only found in the Americas?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

*

mikeman7918

  • 5431
  • +0/-0
  • Round Earther
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #466 on: December 25, 2014, 06:15:08 PM »
The probability that you or me would exist in our exact form with our exact genetic code is even more unlikely then that, what's your point?  Unlikely things can happen, for example, one time I met my friend that I knew through the internet in the lobby of a game that anyone in the world with that game could have joined, and against all odds it was him.  Do you see what I mean, just because something is unlikely doesn't mean that it's impossible.

Cosmologist and mathematician Roger Penrose once attempted to calculate the probability that chance allowed the initial state of the universe and its entropy to be exactly 'right' to allow it to still exist now. His answer was 1 chance in 10^10^123, a probability so small as to effectively be zero. To get a picture of this number, note that the number of baryons (protons & neutrons) in the universe is estimated to be about 10^80. We could write that number as 1 followed by 80 zeros. But to write Penrose's number would require 1 followed by a zero on every baryon in the universe, and then more.

From: Eich
Subject: Googolplex

Can you tell me how many sheets of paper it will take to make a
googolplex if you can have 20,000 zeros on each page?

Thanks.

Date: 11/18/97 at 12:11:47
From: Doctor Rob
Subject: Re: Googolplex

Since a googolplex is N = 10^(10^100), there are 10^100 zeroes in
its decimal form. If 20,000 = 2*10^4 fit on one page, you will need
(10^100)/(2*10^4) = 5*10^95 pages.

-Doctor Rob,  The Math Forum
 Check out our web site!  http://mathforum.org/dr.math/ 

Well, first let's make sure that you mean a googolplex, and not some
smaller number, like a googol. You will remember that a googol is the
number that is written by putting down a 1, then following that on the
right with 100 zeros, i.e., it is the number 10^100. (Just so you
know: computers are not good at writing exponents.  So when I write
10^100, the 100 is the exponent.)

This is a really big number, of course. For instance, the number of
seconds since the beginning of time is only about a 1 followed by
18 zeros, and the number of atoms in the entire universe is
estimated to be only about 10^80, a 1 followed by 80 zeros, so you'd
need 10^20 (written out: 100000000000000000000 [that's a 1 followed by
20 zeros]) universes to have a googol of atoms. (Still with me?  This
stuff gets pretty spacey after a while...).

Now a googolplex is a 1 followed by a *googol* of zeros. That's a
truly humungous number. In fact, if you took all the atoms in the
*entire universe* and lined them up, put a l on the first one, and 0's
on all the rest, you still would not have been able to write down a
googolplex, since there are only 10^80 atoms, and you need to write
10^100 zeros.

Read more : http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/59174.html

Origin-of-life researcher Leslie Orgel points out:

    "The self-organization of the reductive citric acid cycle without the help of 'informational' catalysts would be a near miracle...It is hard to see how any..[of the potentially self-replicating] polymers that have been described up to now...could have accumulated on the early earth...[It is] to appeal to magic."

Astrophysicist  Sir Fred Hoyle has said:

    "If there were some deep principle that drove organic systems toward living systems, the operation of the principle should easily be demonstrable in a test tube in half a morning….No such demonstration has ever been given. Nothing happens…except the eventual production of a tarry sludge."

Modern understanding of molecular biology allows scientists to calculate the probability of abiogenesis. Such calculations are not a proof, but since neo-Darwinism is based on random mutations, they are an important predictor of its validity. Probability was not an issue up through 1965, when scientists believed an infinite amount of time was available because the universe was eternal. But it is a critical issue now that science estimates Earth is only ~4.6 billion years old, which allows substantially less time for slow evolutionary processes to produce the planet and life we observe.

As an example, cytochrome c, a small protein found throughout the biological realm, had to appear early in the evolutionary process. Yet information theorist Hubert Yockey calculated a probability of 10^-75 to generate it spontaneously from an amino acid-rich environment.7 To put this into perspective: a 10^-75 chance is less likely than winning the Powerball lottery nine weeks in a row, buying only one ticket per week!

But it gets worse. Life is composed of many more-complex molecules than cytochrome c. Murray Eden of Massachusetts Institute of Technology calculated a probability of ~10-313 to spontaneously bring polypeptide sequences together into functional proteins. Simple self-sustaining life requires ~1,500-2,000 gene products, and Hoyle estimated a probability of 10^-40,000 to obtain 2,000 enzymes in a random trial. Physicist Harold Morowitz has calculated that if a large batch of bacteria in a sealed container is heated so every chemical bond is broken, then cooled slowly to allow the atoms to form new bonds and come to equilibrium, there is a probability of 10^-100,000,000,000 that a living bacterium will be present at the end.

How low a probability do mathematicians believe makes an event essentially impossible? Émile Borel has estimated 10^-50; and William Dembski has calculated a lower limit of 10^-150, based on the number of elementary particles in the universe and the age of the universe. Yet the probability of abiogenesis is far, far less than either figure!

Could the genetic code have been spontaneously generated? Biologists J. T. Trevors and D. L. Abel conclude:

    "The argument has been repeatedly made that given sufficient time, a genetic instruction set and language system could have arisen. But extended time does not provide an explanatory mechanism for spontaneously generated genetic instruction. No amount of time proposed thus far, can explain this type of conceptual communication system. It is not just complex. It is conceptually complex."

These probability arguments are irrefutable. Some evolutionists offer hand-waving contrary arguments, but even Richard Dawkins admits "the probability of life having arisen by chance is as vanishingly small as the likelihood of a Jumbo Jet having being constructed by a hurricane sweeping through a scrap yard."

And these calculations do not even consider the seemingly insurmountable obstacle first discovered by Louis Pasteur. Life consists of only "left-handed" amino acids and "right-handed" sugars, but a random primordial soup would have contained equal proportions of molecules in left-handed and right-handed configurations.

Even in defending abiogenesis, biologist Francis Crick acknowledged in 1981:

    "An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to be satisfied to get it going."

Abiogenesis is not only unproven, it is mathematically impossible.
No wonder both Orgel and Crick called it a miracle. Other scenarios have therefore been suggested. Hoyle and others postulate life was transplanted from outer space —which moves the origins problem to another time and place. The multiverse hypothesis, proposed by leading origin-of-life researcher Eugene Koonin, is currently in vogue—it replaces infinite time with an infinity of universes to account for the extraordinarily improbable existence of at least one life-sustaining planet.

The real answer may be that abiogenesis is the creation myth of a culture with no need for God—a culture to which physicist Lee Smolin can proclaim: "there is nothing outside the universe."16 This statement is an unsustainable myth, yet a creator is the only alternative to abiogenesis, and this undermines the mythological foundation of the faith of atheists.

According to Lynn Margulis, the proponents of Neo-Darwinism constitute “a minor twentieth-century religious sect within the sprawling religious persuasion of Anglo-Saxon Biology”. (Mann, C. (1991). "Lynn Margulis: Science's Unruly Earth Mother". Science 252 (5004): 378–381).

She also believed that proponents of the standard theory "wallow in their zoological, capitalistic, competitive, cost-benefit interpretation of Darwin – having mistaken him... Neo-Darwinism, which insists on [the slow accrual of mutations by gene-level natural selection], is in a complete funk." (Mann, C. (1991). "Lynn Margulis: Science's Unruly Earth Mother". Science 252 (5004): 378–381).

“I work in evolutionary biology, but with cells and micro-organisms. Richard Dawkins, John Maynard Smith, George Williams, Richard Lewontin, Niles Eldredge and Stephen Jay Gould all come out of the zoological tradition, which suggests to me that, in the words of our colleague Simon Robson, they deal with a data set some three billion years out of date.” (The New York Times, November 24, 2011)

There was another prominent biologist, Ernst Mayr (1904 – 2005), who was the first author to develop a detailed model of the connection between speciation, evolutionary rates, and macroevolution in 1954. Although initially ignored, his theory of the importance of peripatric speciation in macroevolution is now widely recognized. It means that scientists from various sides have attacked Darwinism. Ernst Mayer’s theories of Speciational Evolution and Punctuated Equilibria, although consistent with Darwinism, nonetheless undermined Darwin’s “gradualism” in evolution just as Lynn Morgulis’ Serial Endosymbiotic Theory undermined the idea of invariable “selfishness” of the evolving species.

One of the reasons why Darwin’s theory remains so revered to this day can be explained by the words of Ernst Mayr, who wrote: "Now a third one of Darwin's great contributions was that he replaced theological, or supernatural, science with secular science. Laplace, of course, had already done this some 50 years earlier when he explained the whole world to Napoleon. After his explanation, Napoleon replied, "where is God in your theory?" And Laplace answered, "I don't need that hypothesis." Darwin's explanation that all things have a natural cause made the belief in a creatively superior mind quite unnecessary. He created a secular world, more so than anyone before him. Certainly many forces were verging in that same direction, but Darwin's work was the crashing arrival of this idea and from that point on, the secular viewpoint of the world became virtually universal”. (What Evolution Is by Ernst Mayr — ScienceMasters Series/Basic Books; October 2001, http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/mayr/mayr_print.html, accessed 10-13-04).

People like Dawkins in England who still think the gene is the target of selection are evidently wrong. In the 30s and 40s, it was widely accepted that genes were the target of selection, because that was the only way they could be made accessible to mathematics, but now we know that it is really the whole genotype of the individual, not the gene.

People like Richard Dawkins are engaged in propaganda of anti-religion thoughts and sentiments. His quest is against Christianity even at the expense of science and scientific truth. The fact that the endosymbiotic theory had been actively suppressed for about a hundred years before it was finally accepted by the established scientific community is emblematic of the capitalist period of the Anglo-American civilization, which is more interested in propagating any pseudoscientific theory that most effectively justifies its rulers’ predatory, selfish foreign policies toward external nations and peoples. That is why natural sciences have been turned into a special instrument of indoctrination and ideological propaganda and true scientific discoveries so often met with “knee-jerk” reaction. As long as the predatory policies persist, the Neo-Darwinism will remain relevant to the contemporary level of social relations in traditional capitalist society, no matter how outdated it gets scientifically.

The ruling minority elite needs public consciousness to match their criminal, predatory policies. That is why primitive Darwinism retains its positions in public debate so far. Therefore, people in general are being educated that they are “predators”, who are destined to eat each other out. As long as the ruling classes continue to succeed in their quest to forestall the evolvement of the general social consciousness of the people, whom they desperately try to control, the gap between the proper scientific advances and general public’s scientific awareness will increase…

Read more : http://serge-malov.livejournal.com/28768.html

In addition : Former leading atheist argues for the existence of God : http://creation.com/review-there-is-a-god-by-antony-flew
I am actually a Christian, so you don't have to convince me that there is a God.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

*

cikljamas

  • 2466
  • +1/-2
  • Ex nihilo nihil fit
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #467 on: December 27, 2014, 05:28:40 AM »
Yesterday I have announced next argument in this post: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62485.msg1647697#msg1647697

INTRODUCTION:

We know that rivers flow down to the oceans. On a globe there can't be up and down(so they claim), so why exactly water flows down to the oceans if the oceans also have an incline and are not flat. Actually of course a round sphere has a top and a bottom. Doesn't make sense at all. The oceans would destroy the land completely if the Earth were round and somehow the water managed to stick to the surface. They would constantly push on to land till they cut through it. That is how water behaves if it is on a slope and meets a barrier on its way. If there is an incline to water then you wouldn't need wind to sail, you would just go down with the flow. A round surface gives you the incline, so it doesn't make sense.

TSUNAMI-RIVERS ARGUMENT:

A tsunami is basically a shallow-water wave, even in deep seas. Tsunamis typically have wave lengths of 200km, which makes them shallow water waves even in the ocean.

These waves have insignificant wave heights at sea, but in shallow coastal waters they can exceed 30m (100 ft). They may travel thousands of kilometers across the ocean nearly unnoticed until they reach land. Earthquakes in the Aleutian Trench regularly send large seismic waves across the Pacific Ocean, affecting Hawaii and the coastlines of the North Pacific Ocean.

When an earthquake occurs, energy will be transferred to the water, resulting in water waves. As the waves reach seashore, because the sea depth is getting shallower and wavelength is getting shorter, the height of the wave gets push up, resulting in tsunami. In other words in deep sea, water won't get pushed up as high as the water in shallow seashore.

Tsunami animation : http://www.embc.gov.bc.ca/em/tsunamis/causes_2.htm

As you can see in animation above (and in explanation above animation), tsunami waves are shallow-water waves which may travel thousands of kilometers across the ocean nearly unnoticed until they reach land. Only when tsunami waves come closer to seashore, their depth is getting shallower, their wavelength is getting shorter, and the height of the wave becomes larger, resulting in destructive consequences...

So, what is wrong here?

FIRST OBSTACLE:

If the Earth were a globe, tsunami waves would get stronger and bigger/higher with every mile as they DESCENDED DOWN the Slope, so that the final results of most of typical tsunamis would be so disastrous that we would witness to similar consequences (as we had seen in "tsunami 2004." case), almost - ON DAILY BASIS!!!

If the Earth were a globe, the mechanics of every minor tsunami would be very similar to the mechanics of a typical avalanche (in mountain region), that is to say, oceanic coastal regions would be practically uninhabitable.

1 mile distance = 20 cm inclination
2 miles distance = 80 cm inclination
4 miles distance = 320 cm inclination
8 miles distance = 1280 cm inclination
16 miles distance = 5120 cm inclination
32 miles distance = 20480 cm inclination
64 miles distance = 81920 cm inclination
128 miles distance = 3,27 KM inclination

Now, The distance between Padang Sumatra and South Africa is more then 5000 miles. What value of inclination should we take into account regarding that distance (on a supposed globe)?

5000 miles distance = 5000 KM inclination which is equivalent to 568 Mount Everests in a row!!!

SECOND OBSTACLE:


Now, if we take as a reference point half a distance between Sumatra and South Africa, we should suppose that first half of that distance, tsunami wave should climb up 1250 km (which is equivalent to 142 Mount Everests in a row) in order to be able to begin downhill down the ocean slope!

THIRD OBSTACLE:

Try to combine second obstacle with the alleged rotation of the Earth in a direction West-East!

HOW ABOUT THE RIVERS?


"There are rivers that flow for hundreds of miles towards the level of the sea without falling more than a few feet — notably, the Nile, which, in a thousand miles, falls but a foot. A level expanse of this extent is quite incompatible with the idea of the Earth's convexity. It is, therefore, a reasonable proof that Earth is not a globe."

A foot = 30,48 cm

Now, try to apply SECOND OBSTACLE to Nile river example, and ask yourself what must be the only possible consequence (inference) of your futile logical attempt to solve this unresolvable problem (under RET assumption)?

The only possible inference is that the Earth is flatly FLAT!!!
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 05:30:58 AM by cikljamas »
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

*

Cartesian

  • 1965
  • +0/-0
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #468 on: December 27, 2014, 06:24:21 AM »
Is this how you imagine water on round earth behaves?



If so, you should first learn how gravity works. Gravity pulls object towards the center of the Earth, not towards underneath it somewhere. There is no up or down in space. Water is pulled towards the center of the Earth along with everything else. When we say water is flat we actually mean that it's following the curvature of the Earth. When we say that one end of Nile is one foot lower than the other, we actually mean that one end of Nile is one foot closer to the center of the Earth than the other end.

This simple concept may be difficult to grasp for you, but at least I tried.
I think, therefore I am

?

Alpha2Omega

  • 4107
  • +1/-1
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #469 on: December 27, 2014, 08:02:52 AM »
You can't be seriously claiming all this. This has such basic errors I - and probably others - can only wonder if you are again going to claim this was meant as a joke after it's been put down?

So before we put the effort into detailed replies, please answer the following question honestly:

Is this a joke? Yes or no.

Yesterday I have announced next argument in this post: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62485.msg1647697#msg1647697

INTRODUCTION:

We know that rivers flow down to the oceans. On a globe there can't be up and down(so they claim), so why exactly water flows down to the oceans if the oceans also have an incline and are not flat. Actually of course a round sphere has a top and a bottom. Doesn't make sense at all. The oceans would destroy the land completely if the Earth were round and somehow the water managed to stick to the surface. They would constantly push on to land till they cut through it. That is how water behaves if it is on a slope and meets a barrier on its way. If there is an incline to water then you wouldn't need wind to sail, you would just go down with the flow. A round surface gives you the incline, so it doesn't make sense.

TSUNAMI-RIVERS ARGUMENT:

A tsunami is basically a shallow-water wave, even in deep seas. Tsunamis typically have wave lengths of 200km, which makes them shallow water waves even in the ocean.

These waves have insignificant wave heights at sea, but in shallow coastal waters they can exceed 30m (100 ft). They may travel thousands of kilometers across the ocean nearly unnoticed until they reach land. Earthquakes in the Aleutian Trench regularly send large seismic waves across the Pacific Ocean, affecting Hawaii and the coastlines of the North Pacific Ocean.

When an earthquake occurs, energy will be transferred to the water, resulting in water waves. As the waves reach seashore, because the sea depth is getting shallower and wavelength is getting shorter, the height of the wave gets push up, resulting in tsunami. In other words in deep sea, water won't get pushed up as high as the water in shallow seashore.

Tsunami animation : http://www.embc.gov.bc.ca/em/tsunamis/causes_2.htm

As you can see in animation above (and in explanation above animation), tsunami waves are shallow-water waves which may travel thousands of kilometers across the ocean nearly unnoticed until they reach land. Only when tsunami waves come closer to seashore, their depth is getting shallower, their wavelength is getting shorter, and the height of the wave becomes larger, resulting in destructive consequences...

So, what is wrong here?

FIRST OBSTACLE:

If the Earth were a globe, tsunami waves would get stronger and bigger/higher with every mile as they DESCENDED DOWN the Slope, so that the final results of most of typical tsunamis would be so disastrous that we would witness to similar consequences (as we had seen in "tsunami 2004." case), almost - ON DAILY BASIS!!!

If the Earth were a globe, the mechanics of every minor tsunami would be very similar to the mechanics of a typical avalanche (in mountain region), that is to say, oceanic coastal regions would be practically uninhabitable.

1 mile distance = 20 cm inclination
2 miles distance = 80 cm inclination
4 miles distance = 320 cm inclination
8 miles distance = 1280 cm inclination
16 miles distance = 5120 cm inclination
32 miles distance = 20480 cm inclination
64 miles distance = 81920 cm inclination
128 miles distance = 3,27 KM inclination

Now, The distance between Padang Sumatra and South Africa is more then 5000 miles. What value of inclination should we take into account regarding that distance (on a supposed globe)?

5000 miles distance = 5000 KM inclination which is equivalent to 568 Mount Everests in a row!!!

SECOND OBSTACLE:


Now, if we take as a reference point half a distance between Sumatra and South Africa, we should suppose that first half of that distance, tsunami wave should climb up 1250 km (which is equivalent to 142 Mount Everests in a row) in order to be able to begin downhill down the ocean slope!

THIRD OBSTACLE:

Try to combine second obstacle with the alleged rotation of the Earth in a direction West-East!

HOW ABOUT THE RIVERS?


"There are rivers that flow for hundreds of miles towards the level of the sea without falling more than a few feet — notably, the Nile, which, in a thousand miles, falls but a foot. A level expanse of this extent is quite incompatible with the idea of the Earth's convexity. It is, therefore, a reasonable proof that Earth is not a globe."

A foot = 30,48 cm

Now, try to apply SECOND OBSTACLE to Nile river example, and ask yourself what must be the only possible consequence (inference) of your futile logical attempt to solve this unresolvable problem (under RET assumption)?

The only possible inference is that the Earth is flatly FLAT!!!
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #470 on: December 27, 2014, 09:02:09 AM »
cikljamas is wiping the floor with your globalists. If you people cannot genuinely see the errors in your own ways and have to hang onto silly explanations for your oceans to stay on your globe, then I feel sorry for you people, if you are genuinely sticking to this out of simply naivety and not simply playing games.

*

Cartesian

  • 1965
  • +0/-0
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #471 on: December 27, 2014, 09:10:54 AM »
cikljamas is wiping the floor with your globalists.

Or, he is just making another joke.
I think, therefore I am

*

cikljamas

  • 2466
  • +1/-2
  • Ex nihilo nihil fit
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #472 on: December 27, 2014, 09:19:38 AM »
One joke doesn't mean that everything else is a joke, also! I have stressed this many times, since that (ONE and ONLY) game with you had ended, last time i gave it (this explanation) to you here: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62485.msg1647756#msg1647756

So, you can begin with your plausible explanation, i am already dying of laughter...

Nile is the longest river in the world (6650 km - 4132 Miles), and in a thousand miles Nile falls just one feet!

This means that in the middle of this 1000 miles (within which Nile falls but a foot), we should imagine 200 km high mountain due to alleged curvature of the Earth!

How waters of Nile can overcome such obstacle?

Only completely sick mind can belive such brazen stupidity!

And of course, after you "succesfully" debunk Tsunami and Rivers argument you can try to answer to this question, aslo:


See a diagram  below "Countries most affected by the tsunami, with the earthquake's epicenter", and try to explain to us how come that Tzunami Effects on South African Coast were much greater than on Australian West Coast?

Bear in mind that according to your RET map, the distance from the epicentre of the earthquake to South Africa is MORE THAN TWICE greater than the distance from the epicentre of the earthquake to Australian West Coast!



Scepti, we can only pity them if they really mean what they say. As for the shills, we must keep laughing, they leave us no other option, and the best part is that they are really funny guys, i mean REALLY funny guys, hahahahah....
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 09:21:52 AM by cikljamas »
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #473 on: December 27, 2014, 09:36:39 AM »
The only one's who I pity, are the weak minded one's. Those who should know better but are too weak to dare to know better.

The evidence against a globe is so overwhelming, it's scarily comical and yet weirdly scary at the same time, that supposed rational people stick to it like limpets and believe they are the smart ones.

Just think, all those meaningless equations and thought experiments that they studied for years on end are nothing more than the reliance on faith in people that sell the story, who examine them to make sure they too it all in by putting a tick against their answers, all for the sake of a certificate to say they learned to memorise crap.

*

Cartesian

  • 1965
  • +0/-0
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #474 on: December 27, 2014, 09:42:41 AM »
The evidence against a globe is so overwhelming

Name one (apart from the flatness of your back yard).
I think, therefore I am

*

Cartesian

  • 1965
  • +0/-0
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #475 on: December 27, 2014, 09:49:57 AM »
Nile is the longest river in the world (6650 km - 4132 Miles), and in a thousand miles Nile falls just one feet!

This means that in the middle of this 1000 miles (within which Nile falls but a foot), we should imagine 200 km high mountain due to alleged curvature of the Earth!

How waters of Nile can overcome such obstacle?

Only completely sick mind can belive such brazen stupidity!

How does it prove RE vs FE argument? On flat earth, that stretch of Nile is almost flat. On round earth, that stretch of Nile almost follows the curvature of Earth. What is the problem with that?
I think, therefore I am

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #476 on: December 27, 2014, 09:55:54 AM »
Nile is the longest river in the world (6650 km - 4132 Miles), and in a thousand miles Nile falls just one feet!

This means that in the middle of this 1000 miles (within which Nile falls but a foot), we should imagine 200 km high mountain due to alleged curvature of the Earth!

How waters of Nile can overcome such obstacle?

Only completely sick mind can belive such brazen stupidity!

How does it prove RE vs FE argument? On flat earth, that stretch of Nile is almost flat. On round earth, that stretch of Nile almost follows the curvature of Earth. What is the problem with that?
Wake up for crying out loud. He pulled your pants down. Just pull them up and just yourself down, then start using your common sense.

*

Cartesian

  • 1965
  • +0/-0
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #477 on: December 27, 2014, 10:00:03 AM »
Nile is the longest river in the world (6650 km - 4132 Miles), and in a thousand miles Nile falls just one feet!

This means that in the middle of this 1000 miles (within which Nile falls but a foot), we should imagine 200 km high mountain due to alleged curvature of the Earth!

How waters of Nile can overcome such obstacle?

Only completely sick mind can belive such brazen stupidity!

How does it prove RE vs FE argument? On flat earth, that stretch of Nile is almost flat. On round earth, that stretch of Nile almost follows the curvature of Earth. What is the problem with that?
Wake up for crying out loud. He pulled your pants down. Just pull them up and just yourself down, then start using your common sense.

How so?
I think, therefore I am

*

JimmyTheCrab

  • 10340
  • +0/-5
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #478 on: December 27, 2014, 10:21:49 AM »
cikljamas is wiping the floor with your globalists.
He's fucking mental.
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

*

JimmyTheCrab

  • 10340
  • +0/-5
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #479 on: December 27, 2014, 10:26:54 AM »
The only one's who I pity, are the weak minded one's. Those who should know better but are too weak to dare to know better.

The evidence against a globe is so overwhelming, it's scarily comical and yet weirdly scary at the same time, that supposed rational people stick to it like limpets and believe they are the smart ones.

blah...blah....blah...
Out your 11,000 posts, about 10,000 must be this post, or a slight variation on it.  You're like a stuck record. 

We know, we know: everyone else is weak and indoctrinated and you are strong and smart.  We get it. 

Instead of making the same post over and over insulting everyone, how about you try and explain how sunsets work under the ice dome?  We are all too weak to work it out, so you will have to tell us, won't you?  Common scepti, stop avoiding the question, like you've spent years already doing.
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.