GLOBAL CONSPIRACY

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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #330 on: December 12, 2014, 06:18:40 AM »
@ Cartesian, what are you talking about? You are very confused...

@ Saros, if i were Obama or Putin or Mao Zedong or Kim Jong Un, i would give an order according to which all heliocentrists should spend one whole day enjoying like this: " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Saros, what do you think, what would happen with the ratio between: A) Number of HC women before one whole day Myrtle Beach exercising & B) Number of HC women after enjoying a whole day Myrtle Beach exercise?

A huge number of conversions (to Flat Earthism) would occure, i suppose, don't you think so?  ;D
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 06:21:13 AM by cikljamas »
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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #331 on: December 12, 2014, 06:41:46 AM »
@ Cartesian, what are you talking about? You are very confused...

I have just shown you how some places on an untilted geocentric round Earth could have longer day length than others. If you're still confused with the diagram then I cannot help you apart probably from suggesting some exercises which may help to stimulate your brain.

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #332 on: December 12, 2014, 07:14:48 AM »
@ Cartesian, what are you talking about? You are very confused...

I have just shown you how some places on an untilted geocentric round Earth could have longer day length than others. If you're still confused with the diagram then I cannot help you apart probably from suggesting some exercises which may help to stimulate your brain.

Please check wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_lengthand you will see that "In general, the length of a day varies throughout the year, and depends upon latitude. This variation is caused by the tilt of the Earth's axis of rotation with respect to the ecliptic plane of the Earth around the sun."

Not sure why you're arguing when this is even recognized by science, it is not a conspiracy at all.

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rottingroom

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #333 on: December 12, 2014, 07:23:19 AM »
@ Cartesian, what are you talking about? You are very confused...

I have just shown you how some places on an untilted geocentric round Earth could have longer day length than others. If you're still confused with the diagram then I cannot help you apart probably from suggesting some exercises which may help to stimulate your brain.

Please check wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_lengthand you will see that "In general, the length of a day varies throughout the year, and depends upon latitude. This variation is caused by the tilt of the Earth's axis of rotation with respect to the ecliptic plane of the Earth around the sun."

Not sure why you're arguing when this is even recognized by science, it is not a conspiracy at all.

Saros, that is in reference to the ecliptic plane which applies to heliocentrism. The Wikipedia article isn't implying what is or isn't possible if the earth is geocentric. If the earth is fixed then one can't say it is tilted and if that is the case, then the sun just makes its own motion causing variation.

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rottingroom

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #334 on: December 12, 2014, 07:41:08 AM »
Speaking of which, cikljamas has referenced me a couple of times because I said that if the earth was not tilted then there would ve no variation in daylight. I hope my comment above cleared this up as I was referring to the heliocentric model. If the earth were not tilted and the earth was orbiting the sun then there would be no variation. If the solar system is geocentric though, then I don't see the problem. Of course the earth is tilted though. If it isn't, then I want to know what governs the suns movement on a round, fixed, geocentric earth.

Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #335 on: December 12, 2014, 07:56:47 AM »
Of course the earth is tilted though. If it isn't, then I want to know what governs the suns movement on a round, fixed, geocentric earth.

A geocentric earth is just hypothetical, you can't apply RE laws to understand the geocentric sun orbit.
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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #336 on: December 12, 2014, 08:22:02 AM »


Note that the only thing that can make the difference regarding different angles under which Sun's rays hit different parts of the Earth, is the alleged tilt of the Earth. If the Earth were UNTILTED and If the Sun went up or down (no matter if the Sun were 3 000 000 miles or 92 000 000 miles away from the Earth) for certain number of degrees, it wouldn't make any difference, Sun's rays would still hit the whole surface of the Earth evenly!

That is why the alleged tilt of the Earth is a holy grail of HC theory, and that is why i am saying very often that the Geocentrism (WITHOUT taking into account flatness of the Earth) is even much more outrageous theory than the HC theory itself!

The tilted earth probably came from Galileo as he looked through the telescope and saw that some of the planets were tilted in their orbits around the sun. A tilted EARTH could be an explanation for the seasons, he reasoned, as people were still apt to ask difficult questions about the reason for the seasons!!

Don't forget this : http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62346.msg1645003#msg1645003

THE GREAT THEOLOGIAN MARTIN LUTHER STATES:

"People gave ear to an upstart astrologer who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. Whoever wishes to appear clever must devise some new system, which of all systems is of course the very best. This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred Scripture tells us that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth."


AND ACCORDING TO JOHN CALVIN:

"Those who assert that 'the earth moves and turns'...[are] motivated by 'a spirit of bitterness, contradiction, and faultfinding;' possessed by the devil, they aimed 'to pervert the order of nature.'"
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 08:23:56 AM by cikljamas »
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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #337 on: December 12, 2014, 08:31:58 AM »
Yes for Heliocentrism. But in order to have seasons in a geocentric Earth the sun's orbit would need to move between above and below the Equator, like this:




« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 09:43:30 AM by Cartesian »
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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #338 on: December 12, 2014, 09:02:18 AM »
Heliocentric "astronomers" greatly exaggerate the size of the solar system and the universe. They make the universe so big that it cannot possibly orbit the earth in 24 hours.
The universe doesn't need to orbit Earth in 24 hours.  Earth only needs to rotate once every 24hrs.

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1. The shapes of "constellations" don't change over thousands of years.
2. The position of the constellations above the Earth doesn't change year after year.
They would change a lot overnight on a flat Earth since we would be viewing them at different angles as the night progresses.

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6a. It is scientific fact that when a solid body is rotated all parts tend to fly away from the centre, therefore, since the hardest steel will not stand a strain of more than 125 tons to the square inch, the Earth would have been rent to smithereens were it a fact that it rotates at the terrific speed of 1660 km per hour
Here's an experiment.  Stand in one place, now spend the next 24 hours turning in a complete circle.  Not a lot of rpm was there.

Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #339 on: December 12, 2014, 09:05:49 AM »
When ever I want some astronomy teaching, 16th century Protestant preachers are my go-to guys.  :P
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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #340 on: December 12, 2014, 10:23:02 AM »
Do you remember this post: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62199.msg1640239#msg1640239

FLAT EARTH COMPASS CONFUSION : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Let's take up where we left off:



Because opposite poles attract, this definition means that the Earth's North Magnetic Pole is actually a magnetic south pole and the Earth's South Magnetic Pole is a magnetic north pole.[5][6] The direction of magnetic field lines are defined to emerge from the magnet's north pole and enter the magnet's south pole.

Well, how the above claim fits with the next assertion:

The North Magnetic Pole is the point on the surface of Earth's Northern Hemisphere at which the planet's magnetic field points vertically downwards (in other words, if a magnetic compass needle is allowed to rotate about a horizontal axis, it will point straight down). There is only one location where this occurs, near (but distinct from) the Geographic North Pole and the Geomagnetic North Pole. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Magnetic_Pole

Why is there only ONE location where this occurs if the North and South Magnetic poles are counterpart magnetic poles?




« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 10:25:40 AM by cikljamas »
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Lemmiwinks

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #341 on: December 12, 2014, 10:29:56 AM »
You lost me. Are you having issues with the fact that the magnetic north pole is in a different place than the geographic one?
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

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mikeman7918

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #342 on: December 12, 2014, 10:46:34 AM »
Do you remember this post: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62199.msg1640239#msg1640239

FLAT EARTH COMPASS CONFUSION : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Let's take up where we left off:



Because opposite poles attract, this definition means that the Earth's North Magnetic Pole is actually a magnetic south pole and the Earth's South Magnetic Pole is a magnetic north pole.[5][6] The direction of magnetic field lines are defined to emerge from the magnet's north pole and enter the magnet's south pole.

Well, how the above claim fits with the next assertion:

The North Magnetic Pole is the point on the surface of Earth's Northern Hemisphere at which the planet's magnetic field points vertically downwards (in other words, if a magnetic compass needle is allowed to rotate about a horizontal axis, it will point straight down). There is only one location where this occurs, near (but distinct from) the Geographic North Pole and the Geomagnetic North Pole. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Magnetic_Pole

Why is there only ONE location where this occurs if the North and South Magnetic poles are counterpart magnetic poles?





The reason that there is only one point where compares point down is because there is only one north pole, that doesn't happen at the South Pole because it has a north magnetic field while the North Pole has a south magnetic field.  In the North Pole compares point down and in the South Pole compasses point up, not down.  The South Pole is opposite of the North Pole.
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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #343 on: December 12, 2014, 12:09:29 PM »
The red end of a compass needle, the one traditionally indicating the direction toward the magnetic north pole, is the "north seeking pole" of the compass needle. The geomagnetic north pole is the only point where that end of the compass needle would point straight down, if the suspension allowed. At the geomagnetic south pole the other end of the needle would point straight down and the north-seeking end would point straight up.

As usual, the point those illustrations are intended to convey is completely wrong. There's no requirement for the magnetic field lines to be completely level (zero inclination) for a compass to work. Good compasses can cope with a moderate inclination using low-friction bearings that work well even with a fair amount of inclination. If the inclination is very high, you're getting close to the magnetic pole, and the general usefulness of a magnetic compass drops considerably since it can easily be as much as 180° off for finding true north. Cheaper ones will counterbalance the needle to offset the inclination; these will work reasonably well in a certain range of magnetic latitudes, but probably will "stick" if used in the opposite hemisphere.


Does that answer your question?
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Lemmiwinks

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #344 on: December 12, 2014, 12:12:35 PM »

Does that answer your question?

I dont think it was really a question as much as a mad rant.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #345 on: December 12, 2014, 12:50:17 PM »
The red end of a compass needle, the one traditionally indicating the direction toward the magnetic north pole, is the "north seeking pole" of the compass needle. The geomagnetic north pole is the only point where that end of the compass needle would point straight down, if the suspension allowed. At the geomagnetic south pole the other end of the needle would point straight down and the north-seeking end would point straight up.

Are you trying to claim that what we read in wikipedia is a lie?

Quote
The North Magnetic Pole is the point on the surface of Earth's Northern Hemisphere at which the planet's magnetic field points vertically downwards (in other words, if a magnetic compass needle is allowed to rotate about a horizontal axis, it will point straight down). There is only one location where this occurs, near (but distinct from) the Geographic North Pole and the Geomagnetic North Pole. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Magnetic_Pole


As usual, the point those illustrations are intended to convey is completely wrong. There's no requirement for the magnetic field lines to be completely level (zero inclination) for a compass to work. Good compasses can cope with a moderate inclination using low-friction bearings that work well even with a fair amount of inclination. If the inclination is very high, you're getting close to the magnetic pole, and the general usefulness of a magnetic compass drops considerably since it can easily be as much as 180° off for finding true north. Cheaper ones will counterbalance the needle to offset the inclination; these will work reasonably well in a certain range of magnetic latitudes, but probably will "stick" if used in the opposite hemisphere.
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My wife and I will be going to Patagonia next week for ten days. From there we go to Antarctica for three weeks. Will be doing some hiking but just day stuff. Here is a question for all of you as I can't seem to find a straight answer on the Internet - does a compass work in the southern hemisphere? Will the magnetic needle still point north? This is not a huge issue for me but just wondering. Thanks for your help!

03.25.2013. after he had come back he wrote this:

I just got back from my five week Patagonia/Antarctica trip last week. Just before leaving for the Antarctica segment of the trip, I did an experiment in the city of Ushuaia which is located on the southern tip of South America. It's latitude 54°48′south. I visited a local park that had a large decorative compass made out of stone. I used it to get my north, south, east, west bearings. Side by side I set up a North American compass, a global compass, and an iPhone compass. All three pointed in the exact same direction - north (see photo below). I mentioned my experiment to a guy I met from Australia. He said, "Of course they pointed north. A compass will point north unless you sitting on the South Pole..." As I mentioned in my previous post, this was not a huge issue for me but it was fun finding out the answer. http://www.energeticforum.com/255802-post1.html

Here is the picture of his compasses:



It's latitude 54°48′south, so would you be so kind to demonstrate to us how in this latitude compass needle can point towards North if the Earth is round? Where is North (geometrically) if we are trying to determine it (North) at this latitude (54°48′south)?
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Lemmiwinks

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #346 on: December 12, 2014, 12:55:11 PM »
The red end of a compass needle, the one traditionally indicating the direction toward the magnetic north pole, is the "north seeking pole" of the compass needle. The geomagnetic north pole is the only point where that end of the compass needle would point straight down, if the suspension allowed. At the geomagnetic south pole the other end of the needle would point straight down and the north-seeking end would point straight up.

Are you trying to claim that what we read in wikipedia is a lie?



Are you seriously using wikipedia as the only source of your information? Because yes, wikipedia can be a lie, anyone can edit it. you know that right?
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

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markjo

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #347 on: December 12, 2014, 01:03:03 PM »
Many people consider the Encyclopedia Britannica the FINAL AUTHORITY on all scientific matters.
It's a good thing that none of those people are scientists.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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mikeman7918

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #348 on: December 12, 2014, 01:07:31 PM »
The red end of a compass needle, the one traditionally indicating the direction toward the magnetic north pole, is the "north seeking pole" of the compass needle. The geomagnetic north pole is the only point where that end of the compass needle would point straight down, if the suspension allowed. At the geomagnetic south pole the other end of the needle would point straight down and the north-seeking end would point straight up.

Are you trying to claim that what we read in wikipedia is a lie?

Quote
The North Magnetic Pole is the point on the surface of Earth's Northern Hemisphere at which the planet's magnetic field points vertically downwards (in other words, if a magnetic compass needle is allowed to rotate about a horizontal axis, it will point straight down). There is only one location where this occurs, near (but distinct from) the Geographic North Pole and the Geomagnetic North Pole. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Magnetic_Pole


As usual, the point those illustrations are intended to convey is completely wrong. There's no requirement for the magnetic field lines to be completely level (zero inclination) for a compass to work. Good compasses can cope with a moderate inclination using low-friction bearings that work well even with a fair amount of inclination. If the inclination is very high, you're getting close to the magnetic pole, and the general usefulness of a magnetic compass drops considerably since it can easily be as much as 180° off for finding true north. Cheaper ones will counterbalance the needle to offset the inclination; these will work reasonably well in a certain range of magnetic latitudes, but probably will "stick" if used in the opposite hemisphere.
Quote
My wife and I will be going to Patagonia next week for ten days. From there we go to Antarctica for three weeks. Will be doing some hiking but just day stuff. Here is a question for all of you as I can't seem to find a straight answer on the Internet - does a compass work in the southern hemisphere? Will the magnetic needle still point north? This is not a huge issue for me but just wondering. Thanks for your help!

03.25.2013. after he had come back he wrote this:

I just got back from my five week Patagonia/Antarctica trip last week. Just before leaving for the Antarctica segment of the trip, I did an experiment in the city of Ushuaia which is located on the southern tip of South America. It's latitude 54°48′south. I visited a local park that had a large decorative compass made out of stone. I used it to get my north, south, east, west bearings. Side by side I set up a North American compass, a global compass, and an iPhone compass. All three pointed in the exact same direction - north (see photo below). I mentioned my experiment to a guy I met from Australia. He said, "Of course they pointed north. A compass will point north unless you sitting on the South Pole..." As I mentioned in my previous post, this was not a huge issue for me but it was fun finding out the answer. http://www.energeticforum.com/255802-post1.html

Here is the picture of his compasses:



It's latitude 54°48′south, so would you be so kind to demonstrate to us how in this latitude compass needle can point towards North if the Earth is round? Where is North (geometrically) if we are trying to determine it (North) at this latitude (54°48′south)?
Have you ever taken the time to play with magnets?  If they are placed side by side then they will try to line up so they are facing opposite of each other.  The round Earth model makes perfect sense of Earth's magnetic field being similar to a bar magnet but the flat Earth model has magnetic north in the middle and magnetic south is a big ring around everything, and that doesn't really make a lot of sense.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #349 on: December 12, 2014, 01:28:51 PM »
Here is the picture of his compasses:

http://i.imgur.com/goA8UIl.jpg

It's latitude 54°48′south, so would you be so kind to demonstrate to us how in this latitude compass needle can point towards North if the Earth is round? Where is North (geometrically) if we are trying to determine it (North) at this latitude (54°48′south)?
It's not pointing directly through Earth at magnetic n. pole's geographic position on the surface, it's pointing north along the surface aligned with the magnetic field.

Do a google image search for 'Earth magnetic field', and maybe you figure it out, but I doubt it.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #350 on: December 12, 2014, 01:34:29 PM »
Have you ever taken the time to play with magnets?  If they are placed side by side then they will try to line up so they are facing opposite of each other.  The round Earth model makes perfect sense of Earth's magnetic field being similar to a bar magnet but the flat Earth model has magnetic north in the middle and magnetic south is a big ring around everything, and that doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Are you saying that, on a flat Earth, one pole can not be on top, while the other pole is at the bottom? 

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Lemmiwinks

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #351 on: December 12, 2014, 01:37:49 PM »
Have you ever taken the time to play with magnets?  If they are placed side by side then they will try to line up so they are facing opposite of each other.  The round Earth model makes perfect sense of Earth's magnetic field being similar to a bar magnet but the flat Earth model has magnetic north in the middle and magnetic south is a big ring around everything, and that doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Are you saying that, on a flat Earth, one pole can not be on top, while the other pole is at the bottom?

It absolutely cant. Because on a flat earth, if the poles were one on top and the other on the bottom, then compasses wouldn't work. South doesn't point to the center of the earth, it points south. If the south pole was under the flat earth then it would point to the center of the planet and not south.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #352 on: December 12, 2014, 01:41:56 PM »
Have you ever taken the time to play with magnets?  If they are placed side by side then they will try to line up so they are facing opposite of each other.  The round Earth model makes perfect sense of Earth's magnetic field being similar to a bar magnet but the flat Earth model has magnetic north in the middle and magnetic south is a big ring around everything, and that doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Are you saying that, on a flat Earth, one pole can not be on top, while the other pole is at the bottom?

It absolutely cant. Because on a flat earth, if the poles were one on top and the other on the bottom, then compasses wouldn't work. South doesn't point to the center of the earth, it points south. If the south pole was under the flat earth then it would point to the center of the planet and not south.

That is odd.  I have a magnet and some button compasses.  Perhaps my magnet defies the laws of physics or something?

« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 01:43:41 PM by jroa »

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Lemmiwinks

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #353 on: December 12, 2014, 01:46:04 PM »
Have you ever taken the time to play with magnets?  If they are placed side by side then they will try to line up so they are facing opposite of each other.  The round Earth model makes perfect sense of Earth's magnetic field being similar to a bar magnet but the flat Earth model has magnetic north in the middle and magnetic south is a big ring around everything, and that doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Are you saying that, on a flat Earth, one pole can not be on top, while the other pole is at the bottom?

It absolutely cant. Because on a flat earth, if the poles were one on top and the other on the bottom, then compasses wouldn't work. South doesn't point to the center of the earth, it points south. If the south pole was under the flat earth then it would point to the center of the planet and not south.

That is odd.  I have a magnet and some button compasses.  Perhaps my magnet defies the laws of physics or something?



Hows that prove anything? In your hypothetical where the North pole is on the top of the flat earth, and the south on the bottom of it, then both the north and south pole would be in the same location as far as magnets were concerned. It works on earth if its a sphere, however if its a disc then everywhere you stood on the planet your magnets would spin.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #354 on: December 12, 2014, 01:49:09 PM »
Have you ever taken the time to play with magnets?  If they are placed side by side then they will try to line up so they are facing opposite of each other.  The round Earth model makes perfect sense of Earth's magnetic field being similar to a bar magnet but the flat Earth model has magnetic north in the middle and magnetic south is a big ring around everything, and that doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Are you saying that, on a flat Earth, one pole can not be on top, while the other pole is at the bottom?

It absolutely cant. Because on a flat earth, if the poles were one on top and the other on the bottom, then compasses wouldn't work. South doesn't point to the center of the earth, it points south. If the south pole was under the flat earth then it would point to the center of the planet and not south.

That is odd.  I have a magnet and some button compasses.  Perhaps my magnet defies the laws of physics or something?



Hows that prove anything? In your hypothetical where the North pole is on the top of the flat earth, and the south on the bottom of it, then both the north and south pole would be in the same location as far as magnets were concerned. It works on earth if its a sphere, however if its a disc then everywhere you stood on the planet your magnets would spin.

The flat magnet and flat desk represent the flat Earth and its poles.  When I flip the magnet over and repeat the experiment, all of the south pointers on the compasses point towards the middle.  I am not sure what you are having trouble understanding. 

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Lemmiwinks

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #355 on: December 12, 2014, 01:53:26 PM »
Have you ever taken the time to play with magnets?  If they are placed side by side then they will try to line up so they are facing opposite of each other.  The round Earth model makes perfect sense of Earth's magnetic field being similar to a bar magnet but the flat Earth model has magnetic north in the middle and magnetic south is a big ring around everything, and that doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Are you saying that, on a flat Earth, one pole can not be on top, while the other pole is at the bottom?

It absolutely cant. Because on a flat earth, if the poles were one on top and the other on the bottom, then compasses wouldn't work. South doesn't point to the center of the earth, it points south. If the south pole was under the flat earth then it would point to the center of the planet and not south.

That is odd.  I have a magnet and some button compasses.  Perhaps my magnet defies the laws of physics or something?



Hows that prove anything? In your hypothetical where the North pole is on the top of the flat earth, and the south on the bottom of it, then both the north and south pole would be in the same location as far as magnets were concerned. It works on earth if its a sphere, however if its a disc then everywhere you stood on the planet your magnets would spin.

The flat magnet and flat desk represent the flat Earth and its poles.  When I flip the magnet over and repeat the experiment, all of the south pointers on the compasses point towards the middle.  I am not sure what you are having trouble understanding.

The flat earth model as I understand it does not state anyone lives on the other side of the planet, we are all on the same side of this coin correct? So if you had two magnets, one with north one with south in the same place, as a flat earth with the poles in the same place would be, those magnets wouldnt know which pole to orientate towards, or they would orientate towards the nearest magnet always, which would be North, because if the south pole was on the bottom of the flat earth there would be literally no way for you to ever be closer to it than the north pole.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

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Lemmiwinks

  • 2161
  • President of the Non-Conformist Zetetic Council
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #356 on: December 12, 2014, 01:58:46 PM »
Actually, forgive me, I see the point you are making. I forgot my basic compass composition. For whatever reason I was deciding that the compass would want to orientate to south if it were closer to it. Carry on.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 02:03:04 PM by Lemmiwinks »
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #357 on: December 12, 2014, 02:52:59 PM »
The red end of a compass needle, the one traditionally indicating the direction toward the magnetic north pole, is the "north seeking pole" of the compass needle. The geomagnetic north pole is the only point where that end of the compass needle would point straight down, if the suspension allowed. At the geomagnetic south pole the other end of the needle would point straight down and the north-seeking end would point straight up.

Are you trying to claim that what we read in wikipedia is a lie?

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The North Magnetic Pole is the point on the surface of Earth's Northern Hemisphere at which the planet's magnetic field points vertically downwards (in other words, if a magnetic compass needle is allowed to rotate about a horizontal axis, it will point straight down). There is only one location where this occurs, near (but distinct from) the Geographic North Pole and the Geomagnetic North Pole. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Magnetic_Pole

Not in this case; what you quoted sounds pretty much like what I was saying. How do you think it's different? As already noted, Wikipedia is crowd sourced - anyone can make entries - so it's not infallible.

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As usual, the point those illustrations are intended to convey is completely wrong. There's no requirement for the magnetic field lines to be completely level (zero inclination) for a compass to work. Good compasses can cope with a moderate inclination using low-friction bearings that work well even with a fair amount of inclination. If the inclination is very high, you're getting close to the magnetic pole, and the general usefulness of a magnetic compass drops considerably since it can easily be as much as 180° off for finding true north. Cheaper ones will counterbalance the needle to offset the inclination; these will work reasonably well in a certain range of magnetic latitudes, but probably will "stick" if used in the opposite hemisphere.
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My wife and I will be going to Patagonia next week for ten days. From there we go to Antarctica for three weeks. Will be doing some hiking but just day stuff. Here is a question for all of you as I can't seem to find a straight answer on the Internet - does a compass work in the southern hemisphere? Will the magnetic needle still point north? This is not a huge issue for me but just wondering. Thanks for your help!

03.25.2013. after he had come back he wrote this:

I just got back from my five week Patagonia/Antarctica trip last week. Just before leaving for the Antarctica segment of the trip, I did an experiment in the city of Ushuaia which is located on the southern tip of South America. It's latitude 54°48′south. I visited a local park that had a large decorative compass made out of stone. I used it to get my north, south, east, west bearings. Side by side I set up a North American compass, a global compass, and an iPhone compass. All three pointed in the exact same direction - north (see photo below). I mentioned my experiment to a guy I met from Australia. He said, "Of course they pointed north. A compass will point north unless you sitting on the South Pole..." As I mentioned in my previous post, this was not a huge issue for me but it was fun finding out the answer. http://www.energeticforum.com/255802-post1.html

Here is the picture of his compasses:


Those Bruntons and Suuntos are nice compasses. Apparently they work well at about -45° magnetic inclination. I'm not surprised, but it's good to see. For reference, the USA is at about +60° magnetic inclination, so, if anything, this was easier for those compasses.

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It's latitude 54°48′south, so would you be so kind to demonstrate to us how in this latitude compass needle can point towards North if the Earth is round?

Sure. The compass needle lines up with the magnetic field lines, which (by convention) "emerge" from the surface in the southern (magnetic) hemisphere, follow a curved path toward the north magnetic pole, and dive back into the surface in the north (magnetic) hemisphere. Here's a picture from a Google search on magnetic field lines earth and scrolling through the myriad of images offered[nb]Note that the "bar magnet" inside the Earth representing the source of the Earth's magnetic field in the illustration has its S end in the northern hemisphere. Because of this the N pole of your compass needle points to the north, toward this end of the "bar magnet".[/nb].


The mechanical compass needles shown are free to rotate in azimuth, but constrained from tilting too much vertically, so they align with the horizontal component of the direction of the field lines in the area, which are generally N-S in southern South America. The phone contains a magnetometer that can determine the orientation of the field lines in, possibly in 3D (and probably their intensity), and an app running on the phone displays this information as a conventional compass display.

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Where is North (geometrically) if we are trying to determine it (North) at this latitude (54°48′south)?
Same as it is everywhere except the poles themselves. North (geometrically) is 180° from south. In the picture, magnetic north is to the upper right (south to the lower left), in the direction the red ends of the needles are pointing. Geographic north is probably about 15° east of where the needles are pointing.
 
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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mikeman7918

  • 5431
  • Round Earther
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #358 on: December 12, 2014, 03:02:48 PM »
Have you ever taken the time to play with magnets?  If they are placed side by side then they will try to line up so they are facing opposite of each other.  The round Earth model makes perfect sense of Earth's magnetic field being similar to a bar magnet but the flat Earth model has magnetic north in the middle and magnetic south is a big ring around everything, and that doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Are you saying that, on a flat Earth, one pole can not be on top, while the other pole is at the bottom?

It absolutely cant. Because on a flat earth, if the poles were one on top and the other on the bottom, then compasses wouldn't work. South doesn't point to the center of the earth, it points south. If the south pole was under the flat earth then it would point to the center of the planet and not south.

That is odd.  I have a magnet and some button compasses.  Perhaps my magnet defies the laws of physics or something?


If the Earth were flat and the magnetic field worked like your demonstration then the magnetic field would become weaker as you go south, but this does not happen.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #359 on: December 12, 2014, 05:05:28 PM »
Have you ever taken the time to play with magnets?  If they are placed side by side then they will try to line up so they are facing opposite of each other.  The round Earth model makes perfect sense of Earth's magnetic field being similar to a bar magnet but the flat Earth model has magnetic north in the middle and magnetic south is a big ring around everything, and that doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Are you saying that, on a flat Earth, one pole can not be on top, while the other pole is at the bottom?

It absolutely cant. Because on a flat earth, if the poles were one on top and the other on the bottom, then compasses wouldn't work. South doesn't point to the center of the earth, it points south. If the south pole was under the flat earth then it would point to the center of the planet and not south.

That is odd.  I have a magnet and some button compasses.  Perhaps my magnet defies the laws of physics or something?



Hows that prove anything? In your hypothetical where the North pole is on the top of the flat earth, and the south on the bottom of it, then both the north and south pole would be in the same location as far as magnets were concerned. It works on earth if its a sphere, however if its a disc then everywhere you stood on the planet your magnets would spin.

The flat magnet and flat desk represent the flat Earth and its poles.  When I flip the magnet over and repeat the experiment, all of the south pointers on the compasses point towards the middle.  I am not sure what you are having trouble understanding.
Have you done the experiment to scale yet?
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