GLOBAL CONSPIRACY

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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #120 on: November 28, 2014, 08:13:52 AM »
If the Earth were round at the North Pole (during northern summer) we would observe very slow (two diameters of the Sun per day) motion of the Sun IN A STRAIGHT LINE FROM RIGHT TO LEFT.

In reality, at the North Pole the Sun crosses the sky from LEFT TO RIGHT in very wide circles and very low at the horizon!!!

If the Earth were round at the South Pole (during southern summer) we would observe very slow (two diameters of the Sun per day) motion of the Sun IN A STRAIGHT LINE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT.

In reality, southern from equator (no matter how far you go south) the Sun crosses the sky from RIGHT TO LEFT!

Now, guys, try to imagine what would happen if the Earth were round, and if you stood at the spot which is, let's say, 100 km away from the North Pole? What kind of spectacle would you be able to see from that specific point?

First 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from left to right, next 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from right to left (going back to the start point), next 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from the start point to the left, and last 6 hours the Sun would go from left to right (back to the start point again).

You can call it ZIGZAG argument!!!

As for the pendulum garbage argument:

http://www.energeticforum.com/265238-post542.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/265258-post545.html
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rottingroom

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #121 on: November 28, 2014, 08:29:09 AM »
If the Earth were round at the North Pole (during northern summer) we would observe very slow (two diameters of the Sun per day) motion of the Sun IN A STRAIGHT LINE FROM RIGHT TO LEFT.

In reality, at the North Pole the Sun crosses the sky from LEFT TO RIGHT in very wide circles and very low at the horizon!!!

If the Earth were round at the South Pole (during southern summer) we would observe very slow (two diameters of the Sun per day) motion of the Sun IN A STRAIGHT LINE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT.

In reality, southern from equator (no matter how far you go south) the Sun crosses the sky from RIGHT TO LEFT!

Now, guys, try to imagine what would happen if the Earth were round, and if you stood at the spot which is, let's say, 100 km away from the North Pole? What kind of spectacle would you be able to see from that specific point?

First 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from left to right, next 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from right to left (going back to the start point), next 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from the start point to the left, and last 6 hours the Sun would go from left to right (back to the start point again).

You can call it ZIGZAG argument!!!

As for the pendulum garbage argument:

http://www.energeticforum.com/265238-post542.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/265258-post545.html



This is how the earth rotates. This suggests that the sun would move from the left to the right in the northern hemisphere and from the right to the left in south.

Here is a video of the sun during an entire summer in the northern hemisphere moving from the left to the right.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Are you still confused?

If you have any arguments about the pendulum then please respond to them directly. Copy and paste the parts that are relevant if you have to.

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ausGeoff

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #122 on: November 28, 2014, 09:04:23 PM »

More Reasons Why Dr Kent Hovind is in Jail(1/3) Depopulation. Chemtrails. Vaccines. Eugenics [...]

A couple of points to reconsider...

Mr Kent Hovind is not a "doctor" of any sort.  He obtained his alleged 4 "doctorates" from mail-order diploma mills not recognized by any legitimate university, professional association, or US governmental agency.

He's serving 10 years in Club Fed for tax evasion and financial fraud.  And is facing a further two grand jury indictments for another two similar offences.  Mr Hovind might not be seeing the light of day for another few years yet.

And depopulation, "chemtrails", vaccines, and eugenics have nothing whatsoever to justify his jail sentence.  Those four notions are nothing more than fairy stories perpetrated by the most loony tunes of the conspiracy theorists.



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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #123 on: November 29, 2014, 04:42:59 PM »
If the Earth were round at the North Pole (during northern summer) we would observe very slow (two diameters of the Sun per day) motion of the Sun IN A STRAIGHT LINE FROM RIGHT TO LEFT.

In reality, at the North Pole the Sun crosses the sky from LEFT TO RIGHT in very wide circles and very low at the horizon!!!

If the Earth were round at the South Pole (during southern summer) we would observe very slow (two diameters of the Sun per day) motion of the Sun IN A STRAIGHT LINE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT.

In reality, southern from equator (no matter how far you go south) the Sun crosses the sky from RIGHT TO LEFT!

Now, guys, try to imagine what would happen if the Earth were round, and if you stood at the spot which is, let's say, 100 km away from the North Pole? What kind of spectacle would you be able to see from that specific point?

First 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from left to right, next 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from right to left (going back to the start point), next 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from the start point to the left, and last 6 hours the Sun would go from left to right (back to the start point again).

You can call it ZIGZAG argument!!!

As for the pendulum garbage argument:

http://www.energeticforum.com/265238-post542.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/265258-post545.html

A small addition to the above (ZIGZAG) argument:

This argument goes for any "MIDNIGHT SUN" situation, that is to say, wherever (at any degree of latitude within the Arctic circle) & whenever you see (on the film or in the reality) that the Sun makes a full (24 hours - polar day) circle above us, you should be aware that what you have really seen is 100 % proof of the flatness of the Earth!!!

That is so because with our ZIGZAG argument we have proved that there is no rotation of the Earth!

What are the necessary implications of this proof?

Let me quote myself (North South thread, post #212):

All i have to do is to challenge you on one single issue:

1. It has been proven by numerous experiments that there is no rotation of the Earth whatsoever!!!

Put forward one single experiment that has proved that contrary is the case!

As simple as that!

I don't even have to do anything more than to prove to you that the Earth doesn't spin on it's "axis", and just for the record: i already have done that.

As soon as it becomes obvious that the Earth is immovable everything else immediately fall to pieces...

As soon as you get rid of the Earth's rotation you have to answer to the next question:

How in the world on the rotund but this time UNTILTED globe we could have (anywhere-at any degree of latitude) for instance 15 or 16 hours of daylight???
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rottingroom

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #124 on: November 29, 2014, 04:49:55 PM »
Do you seriously think you have anything to add if you cannot look at your globe and see that the rotation of earth implies that the sun would move from left to right in the northern hemisphere?

This is so simple.

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sokarul

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #125 on: November 29, 2014, 04:50:33 PM »
I agree. If you ignore everything everyone else posts and instead live in your own world. Then, yes, you are correct.
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sceptimatic

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #126 on: November 29, 2014, 05:02:47 PM »
I agree. If you ignore everything everyone else posts and instead live in your own world. Then, yes, you are correct.
Well, it's a start. At least you admit you're living in your own world and not onit.
You're starting to grasp it; now don't let this slip. There's hope for you.

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sokarul

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #127 on: November 29, 2014, 05:06:24 PM »
I agree. If you ignore everything everyone else posts and instead live in your own world. Then, yes, you are correct.
Well, it's a start. At least you admit you're living in your own world and not onit.
You're starting to grasp it; now don't let this slip. There's hope for you.
Is this really the best you can do?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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rottingroom

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #128 on: November 29, 2014, 06:15:45 PM »
...and to answer your additional jibber jabber cikljamas, you have not proven that earth does not rotate nor have you proven that it does not tilt. So going on to ask how a non-tilted planet can produce 15-16 hours of daylight is silly.

If you think that the metaphysical existence of 2 rotational axis points means the earth cannot be a rotating ball then you've also disproven the existence of the globe you made your video with. You've also disproved the existence of merry-go-rounds, tires and any spinning and rotating three dimensional or two dimensional object.

By the way by zigzag you wouldn't possibly be talking about how the sun moves up and down in the video I presented would you?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 09:24:04 PM by rottingroom »

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ausGeoff

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #129 on: November 29, 2014, 11:26:59 PM »
Here is a video of the sun during an entire summer in the northern hemisphere moving from the left to the right.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">


Fixed URL.    :)

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ausGeoff

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #130 on: November 29, 2014, 11:48:46 PM »
I have to note that cikljamas totally avoided addressing my earlier comments about one of his "heroes"...

Mr Kent Hovind is not a "doctor" of any sort.  He obtained his alleged four "doctorates" from mail-order diploma mills not recognized by any legitimate university, professional association, or US governmental agency.

He's serving 10 years in Club Fed for tax evasion and financial fraud.  And is facing a further two grand jury indictments for another two similar offences.  Mr Hovind might not be seeing the light of day for another few years yet LOL.

And his claims of depopulation, "chemtrails", vaccines, and eugenics are in no way connected with his jail sentence.  Those four notions are nothing more than fairy stories perpetrated by the most loony tunes of the conspiracy theorists.

—So c'mon cikljamas... put your money where your mouth is and address my claim about Hovind.   If you can, that is.

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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #131 on: November 30, 2014, 03:40:53 AM »
If the Earth were round at the North Pole (during northern summer) we would observe very slow (two diameters of the Sun per day) motion of the Sun IN A STRAIGHT LINE FROM RIGHT TO LEFT.

In reality, at the North Pole the Sun crosses the sky from LEFT TO RIGHT in very wide circles and very low at the horizon!!!

If the Earth were round at the South Pole (during southern summer) we would observe very slow (two diameters of the Sun per day) motion of the Sun IN A STRAIGHT LINE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT.

In reality, southern from equator (no matter how far you go south) the Sun crosses the sky from RIGHT TO LEFT!

Now, guys, try to imagine what would happen if the Earth were round, and if you stood at the spot which is, let's say, 100 km away from the North Pole? What kind of spectacle would you be able to see from that specific point?

First 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from left to right, next 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from right to left (going back to the start point), next 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from the start point to the left, and last 6 hours the Sun would go from left to right (back to the start point again).

You can call it ZIGZAG argument!!!

As for the pendulum garbage argument:

http://www.energeticforum.com/265238-post542.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/265258-post545.html

One correction: it's not "two diameters of the sun", it is just one diameter of the sun per day!!!

Hand waving won't help!!!

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62199.msg1638336#msg1638336

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62199.msg1638338#msg1638338

Quote
By the way by zigzag you wouldn't possibly be talking about how the sun moves up and down in the video I presented would you?

Bull shit!

@ausGeoff, whether Kent Hovind is innocent or not, it neither proves that the form of the surface of the earth is rotund or that it is not! If you contend contrary than what i just have said, please elaborate it.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 03:49:00 AM by cikljamas »
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rottingroom

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #132 on: November 30, 2014, 05:39:46 AM »
Here is a video of the sun during an entire summer in the northern hemisphere moving from the left to the right.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">


Fixed URL.    :)

the youtube url's you keep fixing work just fine on both my computer and phone.

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rottingroom

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #133 on: November 30, 2014, 05:43:00 AM »
One correction: it's not "two diameters of the sun", it is just one diameter of the sun per day!!!

Hand waving won't help!!!

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62199.msg1638336#msg1638336

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62199.msg1638338#msg1638338

Quote
By the way by zigzag you wouldn't possibly be talking about how the sun moves up and down in the video I presented would you?

Bull shit!


What do you mean bullshit. I'm asking for clarification about what you mean. Not to link back to other threads where you were already shown wrong. You also still seem to think the sun goes from right to left on a rotating earth from the northern hemisphere. You have a globe don't you? Maybe you should look at it.

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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #134 on: November 30, 2014, 06:15:47 AM »
Rottingroom
Actually kudos to him cause this is very interesting

Thanks Rottingroom!

We know that the general shape of the surface of the Earth is flat and we have proved it beyond any reasonable doubt!

Now, if you think that this granddaddy of all deceptions of modern time is just an innocent lie which doesn't cause any major consequences in all possible realms and aspects of human life, then you should see this:

Albert Pike agenda : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Albert Pike visions : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

More Reasons Why Dr Kent Hovind is in Jail(1/3) Depopulation. Chemtrails. Vaccines.Eugenics " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Very important implications of this the most fundamental lie of all lies that has ever been invented by human mind, are absolutely disastrous for humanity and for the future of human beings and for the sustainability of this beautiful Earth!


CIA killed Aaron Russo : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Bill Cooper predicted 911 (it cost him his life) : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Bill Cooper's....Last prediction : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
10 years before 9/11/01 watch to the end! : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
COMPLETELY BEYOND IMAGINATION : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
9/11 Jumpers - 18 minutes : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Oliver Stone on Obama and 9/11 Truth : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Signs of the End of the World : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Fox News Cuts off Girl Telling the Truth About Russia : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Dr. Oz No Flu Shots For My Kids! : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Bill Gates : "Now if we do a really god job on new vaccines, health care and reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent..." : #ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Bill Gates Exposed: Funds Chemtrails, and Supports Depopulation 2/7/2012

And here is an explanation of one of Bill's modus operandi: #ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Bill Gates Depopulation Program Explained


Quote
By the way by zigzag you wouldn't possibly be talking about how the sun moves up and down in the video I presented would you?

Quote
Bull shit!

What do you mean bullshit. I'm asking for clarification about what you mean. Not to link back to other threads where you were already shown wrong. You also still seem to think the sun goes from right to left on a rotating earth from the northern hemisphere. You have a globe don't you? Maybe you should look at it.



What that (the Sun going up and down on the horizon) has got to do with the core of a ZIGZAG argument?

Yes, the Sun goes up and down above the flat Earth since the Sun goes farther away from us and comes closer to us, but if the Earth were globular and if she rotated on it's axis, although the same phenomena would occure (the Sun would go up and down) this fact wouldn't have any impact and wouldn't cause any change (AT ALL) regarding the essence of the ZIGZAG argument!

Rottingroom, you have got a whale in your room, and you still don't notice him?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 06:19:06 AM by cikljamas »
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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rottingroom

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #135 on: November 30, 2014, 06:20:42 AM »
Okay so if that isn't what you mean by zig zag argument then explain. I'm not going to watch all these links. Just explain yourself for clarity.

Also, again, you do realize that on a globe rotating counter clockwise in the northern hemisphere the sun would move left to right? I assume you now understand this since you keep not responding to this.

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ausGeoff

  • 6091
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #136 on: November 30, 2014, 07:52:51 AM »

@ausGeoff, whether Kent Hovind is innocent or not, it neither proves that the form of the surface of the earth is rotund or that it is not! If you contend contrary than what i just have said, please elaborate it.


So now cikljamas is claiming that one of his heroes, Mr Kent Hovind, has been in jail for nearly ten years for crimes he didn't commit—according only to cikljamas?  He uses Hovind's name as an appeal to authority apparently without realising the guy's been in the big house for a decade.  Whoops!

I'm guessing that by now he's sorry he ever mentioned that Hovind "holds the biggest satanic symbol in his hands" in the video.  Which of course was an earth globe.  Poor old cikljamas seems not to know whether he's arguing from a religious standpoint or a scientific standpoint now LOL.

Whatever, he's now running around in circles desperately trying to reformulate his own ideas of things, and recover from the self-inflicted, illogical mess he's got himself into.  Which is kinda funny, and kinda sad to watch.

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sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #137 on: November 30, 2014, 08:14:25 AM »
Rottingroom
Actually kudos to him cause this is very interesting

Thanks Rottingroom!

We know that the general shape of the surface of the Earth is flat and we have proved it beyond any reasonable doubt!

Now, if you think that this granddaddy of all deceptions of modern time is just an innocent lie which doesn't cause any major consequences in all possible realms and aspects of human life, then you should see this:

Albert Pike agenda : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Albert Pike visions : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

More Reasons Why Dr Kent Hovind is in Jail(1/3) Depopulation. Chemtrails. Vaccines.Eugenics " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Very important implications of this the most fundamental lie of all lies that has ever been invented by human mind, are absolutely disastrous for humanity and for the future of human beings and for the sustainability of this beautiful Earth!


CIA killed Aaron Russo : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Bill Cooper predicted 911 (it cost him his life) : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Bill Cooper's....Last prediction : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
10 years before 9/11/01 watch to the end! : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
COMPLETELY BEYOND IMAGINATION : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
9/11 Jumpers - 18 minutes : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Oliver Stone on Obama and 9/11 Truth : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Signs of the End of the World : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Fox News Cuts off Girl Telling the Truth About Russia : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Dr. Oz No Flu Shots For My Kids! : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Bill Gates : "Now if we do a really god job on new vaccines, health care and reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent..." : #ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Bill Gates Exposed: Funds Chemtrails, and Supports Depopulation 2/7/2012

And here is an explanation of one of Bill's modus operandi: #ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Bill Gates Depopulation Program Explained

It's a shame you believe everything you see on youtube, but if I handed you a science textbook you would say it's wrong.
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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #138 on: November 30, 2014, 09:52:37 AM »
Let me help you to put in a perspective some real data regarding our ZIGZAG argument :

If the Earth were round and rotated around it's axis, the rotational speed of the Earth at the distance of one thousand km from North Pole would be 261 km/hr (163 miles/hr)!

What consequences would that produce in the context of our ZIGZAG argument?
Quote
If the Earth were round, at the North Pole (during northern summer) we would observe very slow (two diameters of the Sun per day) motion of the Sun IN A STRAIGHT LINE FROM RIGHT TO LEFT.

One correction: it's not "two diameters of the sun", it is just one diameter of the sun per day!!!

So, if the alleged orbital speed of the Earth isn't great enough to cause shift of the Sun's position in the sky (in 24 hours) for more than just one Sun's diameter, then what consequences we should expect from incomparably slower alleged rotational motion of the Earth?

Just to remind you:

Alleged orbital speed of the Earth : 108 000 km/hour
Alleged Earth-Sun distance : 150 000 000 km
Alleged diameter of the Sun : 1 400 000 km

How much whales do you see in your tight room now?

1. Try to apply above reasoning to a daily motion of the Sun across the sky
2. Try to apply above reasoning to a nightly motion of the Stars (especially zenith stars) which are allegedly much, much, much more distant from us than the Sun!!!

Do you recognise the true proportions of a heliocentric lunacy???

ausGeoff, i didn't say, and i didn't inted to say that Kent Hovind had used the globe as a satanic symbol deliberately. He had held this satanic symbol in his hands without notion of it's true symbolic meaning! That was my point, and you have been aware of it all along, haven't you? Anyway, now you can be double sure!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 09:57:19 AM by cikljamas »
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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rottingroom

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #139 on: November 30, 2014, 10:16:16 AM »
Okay so you will continue ignoring the fact that you are wrong about the left to right movement. Moving on.

You also are confusing with this zig zag thing but I think what you are trying to say is that because the orbital speed is greater than the rotational speed then the orbital speed should have a more noticeable effect on the suns position than the rotational speed?

I have no idea why you think that follows. A human being is on earth and rotation causes the angle at which you see the sun to change.

Let me give you an elementary example. While driving a car at 60 mph you can look at an object out the side window. Something at least 1/2 mile from you. You'll notice that it seems the object is going by rather slowly even though you know full well that it is going by at 60mph.

Now get out of the car and look at the same object. Turn slowly around 180° (like rotating) and what did you see? The object appeared to move out of your view much faster than it did when you were in the car, yet your head rotated much slower than 60 mph.

Keep making new arguments cikljamas.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 10:23:56 AM by rottingroom »

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Rama Set

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #140 on: November 30, 2014, 10:23:38 AM »

@ausGeoff, whether Kent Hovind is innocent or not, it neither proves that the form of the surface of the earth is rotund or that it is not! If you contend contrary than what i just have said, please elaborate it.


So now cikljamas is claiming that one of his heroes, Mr Kent Hovind, has been in jail for nearly ten years for crimes he didn't commit—according only to cikljamas?  He uses Hovind's name as an appeal to authority apparently without realising the guy's been in the big house for a decade.  Whoops!

I'm guessing that by now he's sorry he ever mentioned that Hovind "holds the biggest satanic symbol in his hands" in the video.  Which of course was an earth globe.  Poor old cikljamas seems not to know whether he's arguing from a religious standpoint or a scientific standpoint now LOL.

Whatever, he's now running around in circles desperately trying to reformulate his own ideas of things, and recover from the self-inflicted, illogical mess he's got himself into.  Which is kinda funny, and kinda sad to watch.

An authority on a topic can be in jail for tax evasion and still retain their authority.

Hovind is not an authority on geology and evolution because he ignores, misconstrues and misrepresents evidence, not because he committed tax evasion and got caught.

As an analogy: Robert Downey Jr. is an excellent actor. He was an excellent actor even though he went to jail. His time in jail said nothing about his acting abilities.

Mike Tyson was an excellent boxer. That he went to jail said nothing about his prowess as a boxer.

Is this sinking in yet?
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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sokarul

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #141 on: November 30, 2014, 10:37:26 AM »
Quote from: cikljamas
So, if the alleged orbital speed of the Earth isn't great enough to cause shift of the Sun's position in the sky (in 24 hours) for more than just one Sun's diameter, then what consequences we should expect from incomparably slower alleged rotational motion of the Earth?
Is he trying to claim that all points on Earth won't travel 360 degrees in 24 hours?
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rottingroom

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #142 on: November 30, 2014, 10:40:18 AM »
Quote from: cikljamas
So, if the alleged orbital speed of the Earth isn't great enough to cause shift of the Sun's position in the sky (in 24 hours) for more than just one Sun's diameter, then what consequences we should expect from incomparably slower alleged rotational motion of the Earth?
Is he trying to claim that all points on Earth won't travel 360 degrees in 24 hours?

I don't think so. I think I understood what he is saying. Rotational velocity is slower than orbital speed therefore orbital speed should have greater effect on positions of things around earth from earth. Why he thinks this is beyond me.

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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #143 on: November 30, 2014, 02:01:16 PM »
Quote from: cikljamas
So, if the alleged orbital speed of the Earth isn't great enough to cause shift of the Sun's position in the sky (in 24 hours) for more than just one Sun's diameter, then what consequences we should expect from incomparably slower alleged rotational motion of the Earth?
Is he trying to claim that all points on Earth won't travel 360 degrees in 24 hours?

I don't think so. I think I understood what he is saying. Rotational velocity is slower than orbital speed therefore orbital speed should have greater effect on positions of things around earth from earth. Why he thinks this is beyond me.

Maybe because 108 000 km per hour is 413 TIMES greater speed than 261 km per hour?

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A human being is on earth and rotation causes the angle at which you see the sun to change.

A human being is on earth while hurtling around the Sun also, and why would orbital speed of the Earth (which is 413 TIMES greater than rotational speed) be less noticable than it's rotational speed? Do you really think that due to the geometrical difference between linear and circular motion, we should perceive apparent motion of the celestial objects in such drastically different manner?

Modern astronomers claim that their ancient predecessors could not have noticed stellar parallax through centuries, due to enormous distances between the Earth and the stars, doesn't that help you to understand my point?

When the Earth rotates, what kind of motion an observer (which is placed let's say at the Equator) makes with respect to our stationary and 150 000 000 km distant star (the Sun)?

He is in fact submitted to the linear motion  (from right to left), isn't he? Is this kind of motion geometrically any different comparing it with orbital motion of the Earth and with the perspective of a hypothetical observer who stands at the North Pole and watch the Sun while hurtling 108 000 km per hour?

Same goes for zenith stars!

Regarding circumpolar constellations i have to ponder on this subject for a while...
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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rottingroom

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #144 on: November 30, 2014, 02:06:45 PM »
Did you miss my example with the car vs turning 180°? It illustrates your error perfectly.

As far as your continued misunderstanding of the suns motion in the sky with respect to the northern hemisphere of earth turning counter clockwise.... BEHOLD!!!





« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 04:46:33 PM by rottingroom »

Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #145 on: November 30, 2014, 07:16:11 PM »
Quote from: cikljamas
So, if the alleged orbital speed of the Earth isn't great enough to cause shift of the Sun's position in the sky (in 24 hours) for more than just one Sun's diameter, then what consequences we should expect from incomparably slower alleged rotational motion of the Earth?
Is he trying to claim that all points on Earth won't travel 360 degrees in 24 hours?

I don't think so. I think I understood what he is saying. Rotational velocity is slower than orbital speed therefore orbital speed should have greater effect on positions of things around earth from earth. Why he thinks this is beyond me.

Maybe because 108 000 km per hour is 413 TIMES greater speed than 261 km per hour?
Perhaps (it's really closer to 414, but, whatever...), but so what? Tangential velocities, even if they seem "big" on a human scale, mean virtually nothing when great distances are involved, as here. Angular velocity does matter, always. That 261 km/hr tangential velocity at somewhere near the poles rotates you through 360° in 24 hours. That 108,000 km/hr rotates you only 1° around the Sun in those same 24 hours. 360° is 360 TIMES 1°. Which do you think will be more noticeable?

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Quote
A human being is on earth and rotation causes the angle at which you see the sun to change.

A human being is on earth while hurtling around the Sun also, and why would orbital speed of the Earth (which is 413 TIMES greater than rotational speed) be less noticable than it's rotational speed? Do you really think that due to the geometrical difference between linear and circular motion, we should perceive apparent motion of the celestial objects in such drastically different manner?
Yes. It really does work that way.

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Modern astronomers claim that their ancient predecessors could not have noticed stellar parallax through centuries, due to enormous distances between the Earth and the stars, doesn't that help you to understand my point?
No. Stellar parallax requires large telescopes and fairly sophisticated equipment to measure because it's small. The ancients didn't have any of that.

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When the Earth rotates, what kind of motion an observer (which is placed let's say at the Equator) makes with respect to our stationary and 150 000 000 km distant star (the Sun)?

He is in fact submitted to the linear motion  (from right to left), isn't he? Is this kind of motion geometrically any different comparing it with orbital motion of the Earth and with the perspective of a hypothetical observer who stands at the North Pole and watch the Sun while hurtling 108 000 km per hour?
There is no mystery here if you know a little trig. It's easy enough to calculate.

The equatorial radius of earth 6378.1 km and the perihelion distance 147,098,290 km. [nb]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth[/nb]

The parallax angle would be

a = 2 tan-1(6378.1 km / 147098290 km)
 =  2 tan-1(4.3359 X 10-5)
 =  2 * 0.0024843°
 = 0.0049686°
 = 17.887 seconds of arc. After 12 hours.

Meanwhile, the sun is moving across the sky at about (1/4)° (900 seconds of arc) per minute due to rotation of the Earth, and against the background stars at about (1 / 1440)° (2.5 seconds of arc) per minute due to the motion of the Earth in its orbit. So the parallax in 12 hours is much smaller by a factor of 50 TIMES than the apparent motion in 1 minute. This will be pretty hard to detect unless you're really looking for it and have very good equipment.

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Same goes for zenith stars!
What about Zenith stars? Stars are so far away that parallax due to the 150,000-km orbit of the Earth isn't detectable without good equipment; parallax due to the 12,756.2-km diameter would be totally lost in the noise with even the best equipment.

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Regarding circumpolar constellations i have to ponder on this subject for a while...
Ponder if you want. They've been well understood for centuries if not millennia. I doubt you'll come up with anything that works better than a spinning spherical earth. Even if you do, you'll have to see how that agrees with other observations.

I've been away for a while. What's all this about a ZIGZAG model?

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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rottingroom

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #146 on: November 30, 2014, 07:28:35 PM »
I've been away for a while. What's all this about a ZIGZAG model?

I've been asking him that for two days and he won't clarify. He just keeps adding more arguments and ignoring all the rebuttals. My best guess is that he is talking about how the sun zigs and zags up and down at the north pole during a day due to the tilt.

Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #147 on: November 30, 2014, 08:53:45 PM »
I've been away for a while. What's all this about a ZIGZAG model?

I've been asking him that for two days and he won't clarify. He just keeps adding more arguments and ignoring all the rebuttals. My best guess is that he is talking about how the sun zigs and zags up and down at the north pole during a day due to the tilt.

Yeah, I saw some references, but no explanation of what it meant that could be discerned, but I was sprinting thru the thread.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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cikljamas

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #148 on: December 01, 2014, 03:08:21 AM »
Quote
If the Earth were round at the North Pole (during northern summer) we would observe very slow (two diameters of the Sun per day) motion of the Sun IN A STRAIGHT LINE FROM RIGHT TO LEFT.

In reality, at the North Pole the Sun crosses the sky from LEFT TO RIGHT in very wide circles and very low at the horizon!!!

If the Earth were round at the South Pole (during southern summer) we would observe very slow (two diameters of the Sun per day) motion of the Sun IN A STRAIGHT LINE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT.

In reality, southern from equator (no matter how far you go south) the Sun crosses the sky from RIGHT TO LEFT!

Now, guys, try to imagine what would happen if the Earth were round, and if you stood at the spot which is, let's say, 1000 km away from the North Pole? What kind of spectacle would you be able to see from that specific point?

First 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from left to right, next 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from right to left (going back to the start point), next 6 hours the Sun would cross the sky from the start point to the left, and last 6 hours the Sun would go from left to right (back to the start point again).

You can call it a ZIGZAG argument!!!

Now, the only question is how much would Sun zigs and zags up & down, right & left if the Earth were round and tilted according to HC idiotic assumptions?

Well, it is not hard at all to illustrate to you what is the real deal here:

All you have to do is to follow a description of this simple comparation:

Imagine that you are a microbe who stands on a "giant" (1 mm diameter) wheel which is placed 150 meters (a football field counting the end zones is 108 meters long) away from the source of light which diameter is 1,4 meters!

150 000 000 km / 1000 km = 150 000 km
150 000 mm = 150 m
150 000 / 150 000 = 1 mm

Now, how about the stars?

Polaris is allegedly 3, 680 000 000 000 000 MILES away from us
3, 680 000 000 000 000 = 5, 888 000 000 000 000 km

5, 888 / 150 = 39,25
39 000 000 * 0,15 = 5, 850 000 km

So, you are still a microbe who stands on a "giant" (1 mm diameter) wheel which is now placed 5 850 000 km away from you!!!

What would be (what would you see) a visual consequence of your zigs and zags up & down, right & left on your 1 mm "giant" wheel?

Answer me!
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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rottingroom

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Re: GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
« Reply #149 on: December 01, 2014, 04:35:36 AM »
I still don't know what you mean by zig zag argument. It seems like you are trying to say that as you rotate 1000 km from the pole, with the sun starting right on front of you, you start out going to the left for 1/4 of the rotation, then you go to the right for 1/2 the rotation, then you go back to the left for the final 1/4 of the rotation. So essentially you are saying the sun should do the opposite motion, it would go right, the left twice as long, then back right to the starting point. In addition, you are saying that it would go up and down because of the tilt? Do I have this right?

It seems to me that you are still trying to observe the sun from this metaphysical spot that rama set and I acknowledged but you mentioned that we are 1000 km away from the true north pole but that can't be what you mean but neverthless, even if you were then not only is it a physical impossibility that see the sun move around in that manner, but even if you could this zigging and zagging would be so utterly slight. What's more relevant is the fact that as the world turns, and an observer stays put relative to the ground below them, then the observer turns too.

Going back to my car example let's suppose you are in a spinning chair observing a cow 1/2 mile to the right of the road. The car is traveling 60 mph again and the chair spins 360° counter clockwise. Do you think that as you spin that you'll observe the cow move to the right, then left, then right again? Or do you think you'll just see it move to the right, then it would come out of view as you would be turned away from it, and then as it comes back into view it goes to the right again? The only way to view the cow in the manner you've spoken is if you had a swiveling head that moved independently of your body and it remained fixed on the cow and even then, this left to right to left motion would be slight.

You have strange ideas about how you think things should look as you observe them.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 05:39:51 AM by rottingroom »