Flat Earth Model

Alright, let's get this straight.  The Earth is a flat disk, North Pole at the center, with the sun at moon more or less above the equator, moving North and South with the seasons and traveling East to West around the entire globe once per day.  Pretty decent model that explains the days and seasons.

Now, let's include the facts.

Phases of the moon.  The half moon is easy to demonstrate (moon and sun about same altitude), as are the 3/4 moons (sun lower than the moon), and crescent moons (sun higher than the moon).  However the full moon would require the moon to be much higher than the sun (to get illumination on its entire surface).  If the full moon was further away, then it would be significantly smaller.  The sun must be stable or we would observe massive monthly temperature fluxuations (I'm talking 20-50 degrees C).  Therefore, it must be the moon which moves.  However, the full moon is not noticably smaller than the lesser moons.  This problem was what led Aristotle to first propose the round Earth concept (it was not Columbus, who merely debated the size of the Earth).

The setting sun.  The sun on the horizon appears larger than the sun overhead.  The Flat Earth proposal is that the sun goes so far away that it appears to set.  However, that would involve a shrinking sun, not a growing one.  The round Earth explanation for this is that the longer atmosphere (due to the angle) expands the sun's position like a flashlight farther from the focus.  Also, more of the yellows and higher spectrum colors are absorbed, causing the red hue.  In the flat Earth explanation, one would expect a different effect, where the sun expands and then shrinks below the horizon, not a continuously growing sun which sets.

The conspiracy.  The number of people involved are truly enormous, involving every sailor, navigator, and pilot south of the equator for the past three hundred years at least.  It is impossible to hide the fact that a trip from South Africa to Australia takes over half again as long as a trip from Vietnam to Algeria (comparing the radii from the North Pole).  In fact, the accepted round earth theory says that the Algeria-Vietnam trip will take longer due to being at the equator.  Thus, this conspiracy will also have to include every scheduling manager on the planet, many of whom have a vested interest in NOT following it.  If it takes X amount of time to ship something from South Africa to Argentina, then it should take 1/2 X to ship something from New York from London.  That means, to keep the round-earth conspiracy alive, they must deliberately and knowingly moving across the Atlantic at half speed.  Slowing down service is not condusive to profit, so anyone who broke the unwritten rule would immediately snap up huge shares of business in the busiest shipping markets (US to Europe and US to China) on the planet, quickly becoming too public for the government to shut down.  Therefore, the conspiracy of people who know or are consciously ignoring the truth must number in the billions

In short, these are the reasons why the Flat Earth Model Fails.  Explanations?

According to the FE, the moon emits light I think.

According to the FE, the moon emits light I think.

Then how does it change phases?

Don't ask me :?

I have no clue. I just know that FAQ says the moon emits cold light.

Alright, let's get this straight.  The Earth is a flat disk, North Pole at the center

I was considering this last night.. FE says that your compass always points at N as the center of the world and as it happens, South is always on the other side. Sounds simple enough. I propose to have a FE'er go to the South pole walking a straight line and cross over magnetic South and watch the magic as the compass flips direction. As South is no longer in front of them it's direct evidence that the Earth is round.

Perhaps ask these guys to do it while they're there:
http://tinyurl.com/y44twa

Go ahead.  I will await your return.

Go ahead.  I will await your return.

Sluffing off a pefectly valid experiment seems unnecessary. Unless we say that a right handed person is going to walk in a counter clockwise circle and therefore invalidate results. I don't see any reason to throw it away. Heck, take a lefty and a righty, that should balance them out.

GPS info is fabricated.. use string or a laser to guide you.

Go ahead.  I will await your return.

Wouldn't matter if he went, though, would it? You would just claim that he is lying, and ask for pictures. Then when he hands you pictures, you would claim that he edited them, and that he is really part of the conspiracy.

I won't go for the same reason you guys won't go:  Why waste time and money to prove something I already know to be true?

I won't go for the same reason you guys won't go:  Why waste time and money to prove something I already know to be true?

I think what you are going through is called "denial".

I won't go for the same reason you guys won't go:  Why waste time and money to prove something I already know to be true?

Roundabout reasoning.. the clincher to the FE theory. I don't happen to be independently wealthy and could not afford the trip but I'd certainly love to go.

You're basing your view of the ice wall solely on theory. You don't know any more than I know that Antarctica exists as a continent.

Quote from: "Benjamin1986"

Alright, let's get this straight.  The Earth is a flat disk, North Pole at the center

I was considering this last night.. FE says that your compass always points at N as the center of the world and as it happens, South is always on the other side. Sounds simple enough. I propose to have a FE'er go to the South pole walking a straight line and cross over magnetic South and watch the magic as the compass flips direction. As South is no longer in front of them it's direct evidence that the Earth is round.

Perhaps ask these guys to do it while they're there:
http://tinyurl.com/y44twa

Why do you assume that the southern edge is the opposet charge of the center?  What if the "North Pole" is like a bar magnet pushed through the disk, and the underside has the magnetic south pole?

Why do you assume that the southern edge is the opposet charge of the center?  What if the "North Pole" is like a bar magnet pushed through the disk, and the underside has the magnetic south pole?

Considering the magnetic poles are very well documented and a recordable (viewable) phenomena I'm not assuming anything, I'm reciting from factual evidence. We also see evidence of pole reversal in geography, it's not an unknown mystical force.

This goes against the idea that magnetic South is simply the opposite of magnetic North on a compass. If the force only goes one way then tabletop magnets wouldn't function either.

Edit: Also, perhaps a more direct answer to your question... The experiment would help to prove FE if, in fact, your compass never does swing around. Either that, or when it did swing around you just successfully navigated to the underside of the world, congrats.

This goes against the idea that magnetic South is simply the opposite of magnetic North on a compass. If the force only goes one way then tabletop magnets wouldn't function either.

Magnetic fields are directional.  They only go one way.

Magnetic fields are directional.  They only go one way.

So you're saying that there is no way to prove that if you were looking for a Southern magnetic orientation that it doesn't exist?

I'm not saying that at all.  I am simply letting you know that magnetic fields are directional.

In the Flat Earth model of a circular Earth, the field lines would be from the outside of the planet in.  There couldn't be a magnetic south without having massive distortions on the other side of the globe.  I can't draw on ASCII and don't have time to draw a jpeg, but it is impossible to have a southern magnetic pole (aside from the rim of the planet), where the field goes even approximately straight north.  However, there have been numerous documentaries on the magnetic south pole, therefore it must exist. Such a pole on a flat Earth would cause tremendous magnetic disruption, making compasses useless on the other side of the planet.

The magnetic south pole would be located near geographic north, then the lines would radiate outwards from there, going to the icewall.

I'm not saying that at all.  I am simply letting you know that magnetic fields are directional.

Good then, so the experiment is still valid and would be a great way to provide factual evidence.

That makes no sense whatsoever, and you know it.  There is a proven, done on TV a hundred times, irrefutable North magnetic pole and South magnetic pole on physical land.  Unless you are suggesting that all the TV cameramen, actors, announces, pilots, and everyone else who did these documentaries and science TV shows are in on the conspiracy, you have a problem.

You have the southern pole where all the magnetic lines begin, and the northern pole where all the magnetic lines end.  Draw lines between them that go from North to south without noticable variations and I will accept it.

If you say that the southern magnetic pole is merely one variation in an otherwise perfect north pole to ice wall continuum,  then you have a problem, why don't we see massive bending of the compass lines east and west of the straight pole to pole field line?  It would be immediately obvious if the compass didn't point North along a certain latitude.

I'm sorry if I'm getting technical, but this is high-school level electrical physics that is being ignored here.

You are not getting techincal, you are just not making any sense.

why don't we see massive bending of the compass lines east and west of the straight pole to pole field line?

Why would the field lines bend east or west?

The magnetic south pole would be located near geographic north, then the lines would radiate outwards from there, going to the icewall.

And, again, if FE is correct then you couldn't navigate to the South pole as there would be no physical way to get to it without going to the underside of the Earth over the ice wall. This is a great example of a fairly simple way to test this. If you can't or won't go that's fine but I want you to accept that the experiment is sound.

It's become quite evident that a valid retort isn't forthcoming. Seems it's easier to pick out simple textual mistakes to force me to submit to the Engineer than to find flaw in this simple experiment that would be quite performable on a RE.

Is anyone going to actually address the points made in the original post?

This happens way to often.

Quote from: "TheEngineer"

The magnetic south pole would be located near geographic north, then the lines would radiate outwards from there, going to the icewall.

And, again, if FE is correct then you couldn't navigate to the South pole as there would be no physical way to get to it without going to the underside of the Earth over the ice wall.

The actual magnetic north pole, yes, it would be very hard to get there.
However, you could get to what you thought was the 'south' pole at the ice wall.

The actual magnetic north pole, yes, it would be very hard to get there.
However, you could get to what you thought was the 'south' pole at the ice wall.

Perhaps I'm not following but wouldn't the North pole in FE be easily attainable compared to the ice wall?

Sorry phaseshifter (and of course Benjamin), I took a point from the post and kind of ran with it.

Geographic North/Magnetic South would be easy to get to.  The actual magnetic North would be hard to get to.

Basic field mechanics, nothing exists in a vacuum.

If you have a large magnetic field and stick a smaller magnet, it doesn't just affect the local area.  The field lines are is noticably bent along the entire path.  For example, on the diagram below, the south magnetic pole is an X and the field lines are shown by the \|/ characters with periods for spacing.  Now, these lines should normally be parallel (woe to the limits of ASCII drawing).  However, the south magnetic pole causes bending of the lines inward.  In reality, this would be a smooth bending of the lines, and due to the relative strength of the southern magnetic pole (to completely override the rest of Earth's magnetism), the bend would be noticable for hundreds of miles in all four directions.

.|...|....|....|...|.
.|...|....|....|...|.
.|...\....|.../....|.
..\..|...|...|..../..
...|..\...|../...|...
...|...|..X.|...|...
...|../...|..\...|...
../..|...|...|....\..
.|.../....|...\....|.
.|...|....|....|...|.
.|...|....|....|...|.

That's what I'm meaning.

So...How does that apply to the earth?

You do understand that the outer rim of the Earth is the South Pole right? and the centre the North? Exactly like the "speaker" configuration i brought up in another thread.

Alright, let me break it down for you.

Fact: There is a single magnetic south pole on physical land.

Fact: If there was a continous North pole to "Ice Wall" magnetic field, the magnetic south pole would massively and noticably disrupt the Earth's magnetic field so that compasses north, south, east, and west would be obviously deflected for hundreds of miles.

Fact: There is no such deflection.

Therefore, the flat-earth model fails to explain the magnetic south pole.

Now, is anyone going to try and explain the phases of the moon, the setting sun, or why no one has broken the conspiracy as mentioned in my first post?