Rosetta's Philae probe makes historic landing on comet

Quote from: Pythagoras on January 03, 2015, 02:40:24 AM

Bloody he'll heiwi that kind of blows your whole argument out of the water doesn't it?

And why on earth would you have any encounters with the atmosphere at that altitude?

Not really. I describe the ESA nonsense pretty good at my popular website. You really have to study it to participate in the discussion.
Imagine that Rosetta performed four gravity assist kicks in 3D space 2004-2009 and didn't use any fuel to adjust speed, direction and location prior any of them. Rosetta went straight (actually in orbits around the Sun) from one gravity assist kick at one fast moving planet to the next encounter without any assistance or adjustments at all.
Four consequetive holes in one! Happens only in stupid SF novels for 10 years old.

Please provide peer review details.

Quote from: Cartesian on January 03, 2015, 04:09:09 AM

No matter how many times you repeat that BS heywee, we know for sure that you have no idea what you are talking about.

You are just jealous that I have a very popular web site visited by plenty people. Nobody visits this forum thread, where I (or the person writing this) am just wasting my time.

You still don't have any idea what you are talking about.

First you say this......

Quote from: Heiwa on January 03, 2015, 01:58:21 AM

Quote from: Pythagoras on January 02, 2015, 09:40:50 AM

Why would fog or mist be a problem for a space probe?
Why would position of the earth's orientation be a problem?

Note also that Rosetta didn't use any fuel at all to correct its speed, direction, position to carry out four gravity assist kicks.

Rosetta just flew around in space for 9 years and was kicked around the Sun between moving planets four times with no adjustments required at all. Magic! Only children believe such nonsense.

To which you get a reply of....

Quote from: Cartesian on January 03, 2015, 02:34:41 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 03, 2015, 02:27:59 AM

Fuel - according to the link given above no fuel was used by Rosetta to adjust speed/course in order to encounter the fast moving planets at perfect times to enable gravity assist kicks!

Rosetta just bounced between the planets with no outside adjustments during 9 years by, e.g. the ESA tattoed clowns in pornoshirts looking after the show.

I will ask ESA again (for the 3rd time) on 5 January 2015 to provide the info about the kicks + confirmation that no fuel was used. I doubt they will reply of course, but we will see.

Obviously, you know nothing about space flights and are too lazy to find the information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Rosetta_spacecraft

Quote

May 10 — The most critical deep space maneuver was successfully executed. The four thrusters on board of Rosetta were fired for about 3.5 hours, and a velocity change (delta v) of 152.8 metre per second was imparted to the spacecraft.
May 16 — A planned "touch-up" deep space maneuver was successfully executed. A burn of just under 17 minutes was performed with high accuracy. Then Rosetta pointed its instruments again towards Comet LINEAR for observation.

Do you not see the problem with your statement?

He knows he's wrong but he can't just admit it.

Heiwa will you update your popular website with this new found information?

Quote from: Pythagoras on December 30, 2014, 08:00:10 AM

And what info Did you require from ESA exactly?

Sent twice to ESA:

"Rosetta gravity assist kicks


Dear Madame/Sir,

I would be much obliged to receive information about subject, i.e. the exact details of the four gravity assist kicks into new orbits around the Sun to get Rosetta away from Earth and to a rendez-vous with Mars, back to more rendez-vous with Earth twice and then off to the 67P comet. 

The data is apparently stored somewhere for independent review - pls provide a link. The details are straight headings (°)/velocities (m/s) of Rosetta before/after kicks and altitudes (m) of kicks above the planets and time(s) and dates of the kicks.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Anders Björkman

Heiwa Co - http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#ROS "

 
Should not be difficult to reply to?

I will ask ESA again (for the 3rd time) on 5 January 2015 to provide the info about the kicks + confirmation that no fuel was used. I doubt they will reply of course, but we will see.

Why don't you try an anonymous or pseudonymous request for the info from a nondescript email address and omit the link to your "popular web site" this time. Maybe you'll get an answer if the request isn't obviously from a well-known crank.

If you request state vectors instead of "headings", velocities, altitudes, dates, and times it might sound more like you know what it is you're asking for; state vectors contain all that information and additional necessary information you did not request. Based on what was requested, it's clear you wouldn't be able to use what you asked for in a meaningful way. Of course, you'll also need to know the frame of reference for the state vectors. They should tell you what it is (or you could ask), although you might be able to deduce that without being told if you know what you're doing.

Perhaps try something other than their PR department; maybe education? Start with a simple request for the correct address to contact for the inquiry rather than a demand (even if it is polite) for information.

Of course, if your aim is not to get a response so you can brag and fuss about it, then carry on as you were.

And you rectum you are a boat mechanic hewee. Stay away from my boat.

Guv, stop with the low content posting in the upper fora.  Last warning.  Thanks.

Sent twice to ESA:

"Rosetta gravity assist kicks


Dear Madame/Sir,

I would be much obliged to receive information about subject, i.e. the exact details of the four gravity assist kicks into new orbits around the Sun to get Rosetta away from Earth and to a rendez-vous with Mars, back to more rendez-vous with Earth twice and then off to the 67P comet. 

The data is apparently stored somewhere for independent review - pls provide a link. The details are straight headings (°)/velocities (m/s) of Rosetta before/after kicks and altitudes (m) of kicks above the planets and time(s) and dates of the kicks.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Anders Björkman

Heiwa Co - http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#ROS "

 
Should not be difficult to reply to?

Something tells me that including a link to a page where you call their project a fraud and their director general a clown isn't a very good way to ensure a response.

I was away from this site for 24 hours and there are 3 new pages on this thread.  Some skimming revealed that most of it was just Hewia advertising his website, so it looks like I didn't miss much.

I was away from this site for 24 hours and there are 3 new pages on this thread.  Some skimming revealed that most of it was just Hewia advertising his website, so it looks like I didn't miss much.

Why don't you try staying away longer?

Quote from: mikeman7918 on January 03, 2015, 06:18:06 PM

I was away from this site for 24 hours and there are 3 new pages on this thread.  Some skimming revealed that most of it was just Hewia advertising his website, so it looks like I didn't miss much.

Why don't you try staying away longer?

No low level content please.......

So I have sent the following to ESA

quote

de    "Anders BJORKMAN" <[email protected]>

à    [email protected]

cc    [email protected] ;  [email protected] ;  [email protected] ;  [email protected] ;  [email protected] ;  [email protected]

date    04/01/15 11:40   
objet    Rosetta gravity assist kicks


Dear Madame/Sir,
 
This is the third time I send this mail (but the first time to cc).

I would be much obliged to receive information about subject, i.e. the exact details of the four gravity assist kicks into new orbits around the Sun to get Rosetta away from Earth and to a rendez-vous with Mars, back to more rendez-vous with Earth twice and then off to the 67P comet.
 
The data is apparently stored somewhere for independent review - pls provide a link. The details are straight headings (°)/velocities (m/s) of Rosetta (as vectors) before/after kicks, altitudes (m) of kicks above the planets and time(s) and dates of the kicks.

Pls confirm that no fuel was used to correct Rosetta prior/after any kick and that all went without outside intervention by, e.g. ESA.

I evidently do not believe that the Rosetta kicks are possible.

I would also be grateful for any images taken by Rosetta of Earth/Mars during the kicks.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Anders Björkman
Heiwa Co - http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#ROS

un-quote

So let's await the reply by ESA.

Why do you want to confirm that no fuel was used before or after gravity assists when it has already been established that Rosetta did use correctional burns using its onboard thrusters and over a tonne of fuel and oxidiser.

Yes because a passive aggressive email where you state they are all liers will defiantly get the response you want.

Not only the email is aggressive but it is also ignorant.

Why do you want to confirm that no fuel was used before or after gravity assists when it has already been established that Rosetta did use correctional burns using its onboard thrusters and over a tonne of fuel and oxidiser.

It has not been established that Rosetta made correctional burns before or after any kick. On the other hand it has been suggested many times that correctional burns were not required - all went without outside intervention.

BTW - I have received various automatic replies to my polite mail - all responders are on vaccation until 5 January, etc. 

Quote from: Mainframes on January 04, 2015, 03:02:45 AM

Why do you want to confirm that no fuel was used before or after gravity assists when it has already been established that Rosetta did use correctional burns using its onboard thrusters and over a tonne of fuel and oxidiser.

It has not been established that Rosetta made correctional burns before or after any kick. On the other hand it has been suggested many times that correctional burns were not required - all went without outside intervention.

BTW - I have received various automatic replies to my polite mail - all responders are on vaccation until 5 January, etc.

If I help you to find some ESA reports showing that Rosetta made correctional burns before/after swingbys, will you eat your own words heywee?

Quote from: Heiwa on January 04, 2015, 03:20:59 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on January 04, 2015, 03:02:45 AM

Why do you want to confirm that no fuel was used before or after gravity assists when it has already been established that Rosetta did use correctional burns using its onboard thrusters and over a tonne of fuel and oxidiser.

It has not been established that Rosetta made correctional burns before or after any kick. On the other hand it has been suggested many times that correctional burns were not required - all went without outside intervention.

BTW - I have received various automatic replies to my polite mail - all responders are on vaccation until 5 January, etc.

If I help you to find some ESA reports showing that Rosetta made correctional burns before/after swingbys, will you eat your own words heywee?

No!

Quote from: Cartesian on January 04, 2015, 05:12:18 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 04, 2015, 03:20:59 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on January 04, 2015, 03:02:45 AM

Why do you want to confirm that no fuel was used before or after gravity assists when it has already been established that Rosetta did use correctional burns using its onboard thrusters and over a tonne of fuel and oxidiser.

It has not been established that Rosetta made correctional burns before or after any kick. On the other hand it has been suggested many times that correctional burns were not required - all went without outside intervention.

BTW - I have received various automatic replies to my polite mail - all responders are on vaccation until 5 January, etc.

If I help you to find some ESA reports showing that Rosetta made correctional burns before/after swingbys, will you eat your own words heywee?

No!

So your not willing to change your views when presented with evidence that contradicts your teachings?

Quote from: Cartesian on January 04, 2015, 05:12:18 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 04, 2015, 03:20:59 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on January 04, 2015, 03:02:45 AM

Why do you want to confirm that no fuel was used before or after gravity assists when it has already been established that Rosetta did use correctional burns using its onboard thrusters and over a tonne of fuel and oxidiser.

It has not been established that Rosetta made correctional burns before or after any kick. On the other hand it has been suggested many times that correctional burns were not required - all went without outside intervention.

BTW - I have received various automatic replies to my polite mail - all responders are on vaccation until 5 January, etc.

If I help you to find some ESA reports showing that Rosetta made correctional burns before/after swingbys, will you eat your own words heywee?

No!

The truth really hurts, doesn't it?

Quote from: Heiwa on January 04, 2015, 05:30:30 AM

Quote from: Cartesian on January 04, 2015, 05:12:18 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 04, 2015, 03:20:59 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on January 04, 2015, 03:02:45 AM

Why do you want to confirm that no fuel was used before or after gravity assists when it has already been established that Rosetta did use correctional burns using its onboard thrusters and over a tonne of fuel and oxidiser.

It has not been established that Rosetta made correctional burns before or after any kick. On the other hand it has been suggested many times that correctional burns were not required - all went without outside intervention.

BTW - I have received various automatic replies to my polite mail - all responders are on vaccation until 5 January, etc.

If I help you to find some ESA reports showing that Rosetta made correctional burns before/after swingbys, will you eat your own words heywee?

No!

The truth really hurts, doesn't it?

Yes! I feel sorry for ESA.

Heiwa - seriously you've been presented with evidence that Rosetta performed orbital corrections before and after its gravity assists. What else do you want?

Hey Heiwa I found a picture of Mars taken by Rosetta lander during its Mars gravity assist.

http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceflightporn/comments/2mpgny/mars_as_seen_by_philae_during_rosettas_gravity/

Heiwa - seriously you've been presented with evidence that Rosetta performed orbital corrections before and after its gravity assists. What else do you want?

Hm, according to the link provided above Rosetta didn't burn any fuel immediately before the first kick and immediately after the fourth kick, i.e. no corrections were done to carry out four kicks.

Take the first kick 4 March 2005. Our planet Earth is in its normal orbit around Sun at speed 29 800 m/s. Rosetta is coming up from behind at ~40 800 m/s speed at an angle of ~5° (Rosetta is in elliptic orbit around the Sun) and at 1 200 000 m altitude or distance from Earth.

Rosetta is 11 000 m/s faster than Earth and when Rosetta is 1 200 km from Earth - kick! - there is a magic transfer of kinetic energy from Earth to Rosetta and Rosetta is kicked away into a new elliptic orbit around the Sun that crosses the orbit of Mars around the Sun ... exactly when Mars is there many months later.

ESA asked every amateur astronomer on Earth to look out for Rosetta on 4 March 2005 and to take photos of the kick.  Result? Zero!

How do you take a photo of a small object diameter 1 m with some solar panels sticking out that is 1 200 000 m away and having a speed 11 000 m/s faster than Earth? What telescope can do that? And why didn't ESA do it itself?

I would have expected Earth gravity to attract Rosetta, when she arrived behind Earth to accelerate Rosetta more and more and to divert Rosetta towards the center of Earth and CRASH!

GG demonstrated it 500 years ago, the Pope got upset and the Inquisition (the Pope's DHS with the then Patriot Act and plenty FE believers) wanted to burn GG for his innocent ideas and suggestions.

You know - if you kick something on/from Earth in the direction of travel, it always comes back ... even if it has to swing around the Sun. 

Anyway, I am looking forward the what ESA has to say about the four kicks.

Hey Heiwa I found a picture of Mars taken by Rosetta lander during its Mars gravity assist.

http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceflightporn/comments/2mpgny/mars_as_seen_by_philae_during_rosettas_gravity/

Hm, the picture was created 01/04/2015. Rosetta is at the comet right now according ESA and cannot make pictures of Mars.

Quote from: Pythagoras on January 04, 2015, 07:32:15 AM

Hey Heiwa I found a picture of Mars taken by Rosetta lander during its Mars gravity assist.

http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceflightporn/comments/2mpgny/mars_as_seen_by_philae_during_rosettas_gravity/

Hm, the picture was created 01/04/2015. Rosetta is at the comet right now according ESA and cannot make pictures of Mars.

The picture was submitted a month ago and clearly states it is from 2007..........

Quote from: Pythagoras on January 04, 2015, 07:32:15 AM

Hey Heiwa I found a picture of Mars taken by Rosetta lander during its Mars gravity assist.

http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceflightporn/comments/2mpgny/mars_as_seen_by_philae_during_rosettas_gravity/

Hm, the picture was created 01/04/2015. Rosetta is at the comet right now according ESA and cannot make pictures of Mars.

Rosetta is pretty far from Mars right now and any photographs of Mars taken right now from that comet would be the same if not worse then pictures of Mars taken from Earth, so there is no reason to waste time on taking pictures of Mars.

Quote from: Mainframes on January 04, 2015, 07:18:39 AM

Heiwa - seriously you've been presented with evidence that Rosetta performed orbital corrections before and after its gravity assists. What else do you want?

Hm, according to the link provided above Rosetta didn't burn any fuel immediately before the first kick and immediately after the fourth kick, i.e. no corrections were done to carry out four kicks.

I will help you for the first Earth swingby, you can do the same for the remaining swingbys. Here are the links to ESA reports made before and around the first gravity assist. I have used the following links:

• http://sci.esa.int/rosetta/35127-rosetta-status-report-no-12/
• http://sci.esa.int/rosetta/35154-rosetta-status-report-no-13/
• http://sci.esa.int/rosetta/36799-rosetta-status-report/
• http://sci.esa.int/rosetta/36631-rosetta-status-report/

To build this timeline :

• 10 May 2004: The most important activity in the reporting period was the execution of the first deep-space manoeuvre on 10 May. This was the most critical spacecraft activity executed since LEOP, involving a change in velocity (delta-V) of 152.8 m/s, achieved through a continuous burn of the four on-board axial thrusters for a duration of about 3.5 hours. The maneuver was executed successfully and the performance of the spacecraft was excellent, with an estimated inaccuracy of about 0.05%.
• 16 May 2004: The touch-up deep-space maneuver was executed and very successfully completed the trajectory targeting activities that were planned around perihelion.  Spacecraft performance for this short burn (less than 17 minutes, for a delta-V of 4.989 m/s) was again very good, with an error of the order of 5 mm/s.
• 25 Nov 2004: A small trajectory correction maneuver (planned) of about 9 cm/s was executed. However, due to an on-board software problem the maneuver lasted longer than expected and was terminated by timeout. The software problem was identified and the S/C recovered into nominal mode within hours of the event.
• 9 Dec 2004: A new trajectory correction maneuver of about 11 cm/s was executed to correct for the errors introduced by the excessive duration of the original maneuver. This correction was successful and no further delta-V maneuver is planned until February 2005.
• 17 Feb 2005: The maneuver was executed successfully on 17 February and has put the spacecraft onto its final course to Earth. Thanks to the precision of the maneuver execution it was not necessary to use the back-up maneuver slot planned for 24 February.
• 5 Mar 2005: The first Earth swingby.

It took me 10 minutes to search those publicly available reports and compile that list. I am not impressed by your ignorance and laziness at all. You obviously know nothing about space flights heywee!

I would have expected Earth gravity to attract Rosetta, when she arrived behind Earth to accelerate Rosetta more and more and to divert Rosetta towards the center of Earth and CRASH!

And this neatly summarizes why we know you don't have a clue about orbital mechanics.

You know - if you kick something on/from Earth in the direction of travel, it always comes back ... even if it has to swing around the Sun. 

No, I don't know that. Always? Really? What if it encounters another body that diverts its orbit along the way?

Anyway, I am looking forward the what ESA has to say about the four kicks.

Given the content of that email and the fact that you're spamming all those email addresses (HR? Conference Bureau?) I expect you'll hear the following:

<crickets>

It's like you don't want them to reply so you can complain mightily.

Quote from: Mainframes on January 04, 2015, 07:18:39 AM

Heiwa - seriously you've been presented with evidence that Rosetta performed orbital corrections before and after its gravity assists. What else do you want?

Hm, according to the link provided above Rosetta didn't burn any fuel immediately before the first kick and immediately after the fourth kick, i.e. no corrections were done to carry out four kicks.

Take the first kick 4 March 2005. Our planet Earth is in its normal orbit around Sun at speed 29 800 m/s. Rosetta is coming up from behind at ~40 800 m/s speed at an angle of ~5° (Rosetta is in elliptic orbit around the Sun) and at 1 200 000 m altitude or distance from Earth.

Rosetta is 11 000 m/s faster than Earth and when Rosetta is 1 200 km from Earth - kick! - there is a magic transfer of kinetic energy from Earth to Rosetta and Rosetta is kicked away into a new elliptic orbit around the Sun that crosses the orbit of Mars around the Sun ... exactly when Mars is there many months later.

ESA asked every amateur astronomer on Earth to look out for Rosetta on 4 March 2005 and to take photos of the kick.  Result? Zero!

How do you take a photo of a small object diameter 1 m with some solar panels sticking out that is 1 200 000 m away and having a speed 11 000 m/s faster than Earth? What telescope can do that? And why didn't ESA do it itself?

I would have expected Earth gravity to attract Rosetta, when she arrived behind Earth to accelerate Rosetta more and more and to divert Rosetta towards the center of Earth and CRASH!

GG demonstrated it 500 years ago, the Pope got upset and the Inquisition (the Pope's DHS with the then Patriot Act and plenty FE believers) wanted to burn GG for his innocent ideas and suggestions.

You know - if you kick something on/from Earth in the direction of travel, it always comes back ... even if it has to swing around the Sun. 

Anyway, I am looking forward the what ESA has to say about the four kicks.

That "magical force" that made Rosetta do the gravity assist "kick" is actually Gravity and the reasons that it doesn't crash is because it's going really fast and also because gravity is really weak if you are far away from the source.  I have run programs that simulate gravity and unless the authors of every gravity simulator are in on the conspiracy gravity assists are possible.  I could also write a program to simulate gravity, but that would take a really long time and i would prefer not to do it.

It took me 10 minutes to search those publicly available reports and compile that list. I am not impressed by your ignorance and laziness at all. You obviously know nothing about space flights heywee!

Using http://sci.esa.int/services/36371-search/ + Rosetta Status Reports I just get 8 pages of reports in no order at all and very little about gravity assist kicks.