Simple Balloon "Rocket"...

What else do you want. grow up.

Shut up.

Quote from: guv on December 16, 2014, 01:16:58 AM

What else do you want. grow up.

I want exactly what I asked for. What I don't want is a load of old flannel for an explanation. Now get to it or leave it to someone who can read and understand what I've asked for. If none of you can explain what I've asked for, just say and I'll accept that.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 01:40:08 AM

Quote from: guv on December 16, 2014, 01:16:58 AM

What else do you want. grow up.

I want exactly what I asked for. What I don't want is a load of old flannel for an explanation. Now get to it or leave it to someone who can read and understand what I've asked for. If none of you can explain what I've asked for, just say and I'll accept that.

Why do you need it written here when you should be looking at a science site or book?  Do you just want to post a childish reply?

Quote from: guv on December 16, 2014, 01:49:50 AM

Shut up.

Not going to happen kiddo. Anyway, when you people are ready to grasp basic understanding, common sense and logic, let me know because your Earth view and your view of history and the lies will start to become much clearer.


So does that mean you are too dumb to do the sum. You have lost septic. Get over it.

Let's make something clear about rockets. They don't work without atmosphere so get this out of your heads. Seriously get it out of your heads and start using your heads properly. I'm being serious.

Action and reaction in EQUAL measures, no matter what. Action and then reaction is the order of the day in all things in all ways, in all atmospheric changes.

A rocket uses full thrust of its fuel to aascend VERTICALLY. It cannot use so much and just accelerate faster and faster. It just can't be done vertically.
Once a rocket is at full thrust for lift off, it either lifts off at speed or it falls to the ground.
If it lifts off at speed in how they are meant to, then it will lift off at full thrust. There is no more thrust to be had. It has to hit full speed right there and then and will only keep that speed if the fuel is there to allow it at full thrust.

Note. This does not apply to Horizontal aircraft. Please note this  before jumping in head first.

You get one shot at full thrust vertical lift off with a rocket. If it doesn't shoot into the air at great speed, it's going to lose stability and crash. There is no other way it can work to get high into the sky.
When I say high into the sky, I mean to a certain height and then it's spent due to the fuel being used up within a minute or so; and that's basically it.

All the rest of it that people view on their TV sets, is all bunkum.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 02:29:35 AM

Let's make something clear about rockets. They don't work without atmosphere so get this out of your heads. Seriously get it out of your heads and start using your heads properly. I'm being serious.

Action and reaction in EQUAL measures, no matter what. Action and then reaction is the order of the day in all things in all ways, in all atmospheric changes.

A rocket uses full thrust of its fuel to aascend VERTICALLY. It cannot use so much and just accelerate faster and faster. It just can't be done vertically.
Once a rocket is at full thrust for lift off, it either lifts off at speed or it falls to the ground.
If it lifts off at speed in how they are meant to, then it will lift off at full thrust. There is no more thrust to be had. It has to hit full speed right there and then and will only keep that speed if the fuel is there to allow it at full thrust.

Note. This does not apply to Horizontal aircraft. Please note this  before jumping in head first.

You get one shot at full thrust vertical lift off with a rocket. If it doesn't shoot into the air at great speed, it's going to lose stability and crash. There is no other way it can work to get high into the sky.
When I say high into the sky, I mean to a certain height and then it's spent due to the fuel being used up within a minute or so; and that's basically it.

All the rest of it that people view on their TV sets, is all bunkum.

We are aware of the erroneous views you hold. We eagerly await you being able to back it up.

I'm still waiting for gravity to be explained in how I asked. I'm patient, I'll wait as long as necessary for someone to actually answer the questions how I asked.

Quote from: Rama Set on December 16, 2014, 03:39:42 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 02:29:35 AM

Let's make something clear about rockets. They don't work without atmosphere so get this out of your heads. Seriously get it out of your heads and start using your heads properly. I'm being serious.

Action and reaction in EQUAL measures, no matter what. Action and then reaction is the order of the day in all things in all ways, in all atmospheric changes.

A rocket uses full thrust of its fuel to aascend VERTICALLY. It cannot use so much and just accelerate faster and faster. It just can't be done vertically.
Once a rocket is at full thrust for lift off, it either lifts off at speed or it falls to the ground.
If it lifts off at speed in how they are meant to, then it will lift off at full thrust. There is no more thrust to be had. It has to hit full speed right there and then and will only keep that speed if the fuel is there to allow it at full thrust.

Note. This does not apply to Horizontal aircraft. Please note this  before jumping in head first.

You get one shot at full thrust vertical lift off with a rocket. If it doesn't shoot into the air at great speed, it's going to lose stability and crash. There is no other way it can work to get high into the sky.
When I say high into the sky, I mean to a certain height and then it's spent due to the fuel being used up within a minute or so; and that's basically it.

All the rest of it that people view on their TV sets, is all bunkum.

We are aware of the erroneous views you hold. We eagerly await you being able to back it up.

I'm still waiting patiently for you lot to back up your gravity. The questions are there to look at. Observe them and deal with them in how I asked.
I know you are limited but there is some that could answer, surely.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 04:07:02 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on December 16, 2014, 03:39:42 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 02:29:35 AM

Let's make something clear about rockets. They don't work without atmosphere so get this out of your heads. Seriously get it out of your heads and start using your heads properly. I'm being serious.

Action and reaction in EQUAL measures, no matter what. Action and then reaction is the order of the day in all things in all ways, in all atmospheric changes.

A rocket uses full thrust of its fuel to aascend VERTICALLY. It cannot use so much and just accelerate faster and faster. It just can't be done vertically.
Once a rocket is at full thrust for lift off, it either lifts off at speed or it falls to the ground.
If it lifts off at speed in how they are meant to, then it will lift off at full thrust. There is no more thrust to be had. It has to hit full speed right there and then and will only keep that speed if the fuel is there to allow it at full thrust.

Note. This does not apply to Horizontal aircraft. Please note this  before jumping in head first.

You get one shot at full thrust vertical lift off with a rocket. If it doesn't shoot into the air at great speed, it's going to lose stability and crash. There is no other way it can work to get high into the sky.
When I say high into the sky, I mean to a certain height and then it's spent due to the fuel being used up within a minute or so; and that's basically it.

All the rest of it that people view on their TV sets, is all bunkum.

We are aware of the erroneous views you hold. We eagerly await you being able to back it up.

I'm still waiting patiently for you lot to back up your gravity. The questions are there to look at. Observe them and deal with them in how I asked.
I know you are limited but there is some that could answer, surely.

Deep breath. Go back and read the thread. The equation has been explained to you. You were referred to the Cavendish experiment for confirmation and you can also refer to the discovery of Neptune (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_of_Neptune) for further confirmation.

For your part, we are awaiting further explanation of your denpressure equation as well as your demonstration of how an object accelerating at 5km/s² arrives at 17,000km/h after 8 minutes, as you promised.

Here is all you need to know
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/circles/Lesson-3/Newton-s-Law-of-Universal-Gravitation

Now we wait for similar explanations of denpressure and how it works in reality. We also want equations, how did you come up with them, experiments to do the tests and results we should get.

I'm still waiting for the explanation in how I asked for it. Look back a little.
As for my part, I gave people what they asked for. If you don't accept it, tough.

Quote from: Göebbels on December 16, 2014, 06:30:30 AM

Here is all you need to know
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/circles/Lesson-3/Newton-s-Law-of-Universal-Gravitation

Now we wait for similar explanations of denpressure and how it works in reality. We also want equations, how did you come up with them, experiments to do the tests and results we should get.

Like I keep saying. My questions are there so if you can answer them from your own brain, do so; as I asked for them to be answered.

Stop sticking up useless pasted web pages.

Quote from: Rama Set on December 16, 2014, 03:39:42 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 02:29:35 AM

Let's make something clear about rockets. They don't work without atmosphere so get this out of your heads. Seriously get it out of your heads and start using your heads properly. I'm being serious.

Action and reaction in EQUAL measures, no matter what. Action and then reaction is the order of the day in all things in all ways, in all atmospheric changes.

A rocket uses full thrust of its fuel to aascend VERTICALLY. It cannot use so much and just accelerate faster and faster. It just can't be done vertically.
Once a rocket is at full thrust for lift off, it either lifts off at speed or it falls to the ground.
If it lifts off at speed in how they are meant to, then it will lift off at full thrust. There is no more thrust to be had. It has to hit full speed right there and then and will only keep that speed if the fuel is there to allow it at full thrust.

Note. This does not apply to Horizontal aircraft. Please note this  before jumping in head first.

You get one shot at full thrust vertical lift off with a rocket. If it doesn't shoot into the air at great speed, it's going to lose stability and crash. There is no other way it can work to get high into the sky.
When I say high into the sky, I mean to a certain height and then it's spent due to the fuel being used up within a minute or so; and that's basically it.

All the rest of it that people view on their TV sets, is all bunkum.

We are aware of the erroneous views you hold. We eagerly await you being able to back it up.

I'm still waiting patiently for you lot to back up your gravity. The questions are there to look at. Observe them and deal with them in how I asked.
I know you are limited but there is some that could answer, surely.

Well, here's the thing, sceptimatic. Several times now you've asked that we show some calculation or give a detailed detailed explanation for something and you'll show in detail how it's wrong. After providing the requested calculations or details, you simply refuse to hold up your end of the bargain, continuing to deny the correctness of the responses while refusing to show why you think so, as promised.

So, no, not this time. Lets discuss the shortcomings with the denpressure formula as originally presented, and how it could possibly be made to work before moving on to another detailed spoon feeding that you will then declare "not good enough!"

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 05:44:34 AM

I'm still waiting for the explanation in how I asked for it. Look back a little.
As for my part, I gave people what they asked for. If you don't accept it, tough.

Unlike you, I can go back through a thread and read it. 

The gravity equation has been explained simply:



On the left is F which stands for force, the force gravity exerts.  Simple enough.

On the right of the equation are a couple of terms which break down to this explanation:  Two masses attract each other(m₁m₂) at a specific rate (G) which gets weaker the further they are from one another (/d²)

It is that simple.

You want an experiment that could never ever be tampered with?  They don't exist.  You could not concoct one for anything.  However, there is an experiment which has been performed hundreds of thousands of times called the Cavendish experiment.  In essence, it hangs two masses close together and then measures if there is an attraction between them and if so, how much.  In variably there is an attraction and depending on the equipment used, you can get extremely precise readings of G, the gravitational constant.

There is also a prediction that this equation made based on the model we currently employ of the solar system.  Newton's equation successfully predicted the location of Neptune.  Astronomers were seeing odd movements in Uranus' orbit and so a mathematician go to crunching numbers and proposed that there might be a heretofore unseen planet causing it.  The astronomer told observers where to look and on what date and it was there! 

Now, good will has been flowing in your direction, so why don't you reciprocate?  Can you please take us through your denpressure formula now?  Or how about showing your calculations proving that a rocket must accelerate at 5km/s² to reach a speed in 17,000 km/h in 8 minutes?

EDIT: Fixed typos

Let's make something clear about rockets. They don't work without atmosphere so get this out of your heads. Seriously get it out of your heads and start using your heads properly.

I'm being serious.

Action and reaction in EQUAL measures, no matter what. Action and then reaction is the order of the day in all things in all ways, in all atmospheric changes.

A rocket uses full thrust of its fuel to aascend VERTICALLY. It cannot use so much and just accelerate faster and faster. It just can't be done vertically.
Once a rocket is at full thrust for lift off, it either lifts off at speed or it falls to the ground.
If it lifts off at speed in how they are meant to, then it will lift off at full thrust. There is no more thrust to be had. It has to hit full speed right there and then and will only keep that speed if the fuel is there to allow it at full thrust.

Note. This does not apply to Horizontal aircraft. Please note this  before jumping in head first.

You get one shot at full thrust vertical lift off with a rocket. If it doesn't shoot into the air at great speed, it's going to lose stability and crash. There is no other way it can work to get high into the sky.
When I say high into the sky, I mean to a certain height and then it's spent due to the fuel being used up within a minute or so; and that's basically it.

All the rest of it that people view on their TV sets, is all bunkum.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 02:29:35 AM

Let's make something clear about rockets. They don't work without atmosphere so get this out of your heads. Seriously get it out of your heads and start using your heads properly.

They work just fine, better actually.

Quote

I'm being serious.

 

Quote

Action and reaction in EQUAL measures, no matter what. Action and then reaction is the order of the day in all things in all ways, in all atmospheric changes.

As long as it's straight up and down right?

Quote

A rocket uses full thrust of its fuel to aascend VERTICALLY. It cannot use so much and just accelerate faster and faster. It just can't be done vertically.
Once a rocket is at full thrust for lift off, it either lifts off at speed or it falls to the ground.
If it lifts off at speed in how they are meant to, then it will lift off at full thrust. There is no more thrust to be had. It has to hit full speed right there and then and will only keep that speed if the fuel is there to allow it at full thrust.

Nope.  They accelerate from zero.  If you would like to see how well a vehicle of any type responds to instantaneous thrust, (let's say 80kmh), park a car on the railroad tracks and see what happens when the train(instantaneous thrust) is applied.

Quote

Note. This does not apply to Horizontal aircraft. Please note this  before jumping in head first.

No, they also must accelerate from zero. 

Quote

You get one shot at full thrust vertical lift off with a rocket. If it doesn't shoot into the air at great speed, it's going to lose stability and crash. There is no other way it can work to get high into the sky.
When I say high into the sky, I mean to a certain height and then it's spent due to the fuel being used up within a minute or so; and that's basically it.

  Again, they accelerate from zero, turn at a higher elevation, inertia, burn, go into orbit. 

Quote

All the rest of it that people view on their TV sets, is all bunkum.

And the people who watch it in person?

Just use the same way you test things now by using atmospheric pressure as it's used. that's all you need to know.
You've been explained to as to how atmospheric pressure works on density.
Unless a smart arse wants to rig a decent equation up for it.

The simple thing is, atmospheric pressure acting on any dense matter pushed against it and taking up that space by compressing that matter out of the way of the objects surface area and volume, creating a push on push effect that determines the measured weight of that object upon man made scales.

I don't think you quite grasped what I said. Deliberate? I'm not sure.

Of course anything that moves has to accelerate but that wasn't what I said. I said vertical acceleration for a ROCKET requires FULL thrust, as in, it requires FULL acceleration. It cannot just build up acceleration like a car or a plane can moving horizontally.

Now do you grasp it?

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 09:02:03 AM

Just use the same way you test things now by using atmospheric pressure as it's used. that's all you need to know.
You've been explained to as to how atmospheric pressure works on density.
Unless a smart arse wants to rig a decent equation up for it.

The simple thing is, atmospheric pressure acting on any dense matter pushed against it and taking up that space by compressing that matter out of the way of the objects surface area and volume, creating a push on push effect that determines the measured weight of that object upon man made scales.

And it all only works in one direction.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 09:13:38 AM

I don't think you quite grasped what I said. Deliberate? I'm not sure.

Of course anything that moves has to accelerate but that wasn't what I said. I said vertical acceleration for a ROCKET requires FULL thrust, as in, it requires FULL acceleration. It cannot just build up acceleration like a car or a plane can moving horizontally.

Now do you grasp it?

And yet, this is what happens.

*edited bold placement

Of course anything that moves has to accelerate but that wasn't what I said. I said vertical acceleration for a ROCKET requires FULL thrust, as in, it requires FULL acceleration. It cannot just build up acceleration like a car or a plane can moving horizontally.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 09:13:38 AM

Of course anything that moves has to accelerate but that wasn't what I said. I said vertical acceleration for a ROCKET requires FULL thrust, as in, it requires FULL acceleration. It cannot just build up acceleration like a car or a plane can moving horizontally.

Why is a rocket different than a helicopter or Harrier jump jet?  Don't they all operate on the same fundamental principle of action/reaction?

Quote from: 29silhouette on December 16, 2014, 09:29:55 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 09:02:03 AM

Just use the same way you test things now by using atmospheric pressure as it's used. that's all you need to know.
You've been explained to as to how atmospheric pressure works on density.
Unless a smart arse wants to rig a decent equation up for it.

The simple thing is, atmospheric pressure acting on any dense matter pushed against it and taking up that space by compressing that matter out of the way of the objects surface area and volume, creating a push on push effect that determines the measured weight of that object upon man made scales.

And it all only works in one direction.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 09:13:38 AM

I don't think you quite grasped what I said. Deliberate? I'm not sure.

Of course anything that moves has to accelerate but that wasn't what I said. I said vertical acceleration for a ROCKET requires FULL thrust, as in, it requires FULL acceleration. It cannot just build up acceleration like a car or a plane can moving horizontally.

Now do you grasp it?

And yet, this is what happens.

*edited bold placement

No, it's not what happens. It happens on TV because it's blatant fakery. It can't happen in real time and this should be obvious to anyone with a mind to actually look a little bit more logical at it.

It's right there in your face if you took a little time out to see what's happening.
You know for a fine fact that a rocket has to full thrust to take off. It has to. This is all you need to know about how it can work.

It cannot gain any more thrust than what it's given out, so cannot gain any additional speed that it already gained on full thrust, unless it went into an arc back to the ground, nose first.

I honestly don't know why people cannot see this.

Quote from: 29silhouette on December 16, 2014, 09:07:19 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 02:29:35 AM

Let's make something clear about rockets. They don't work without atmosphere so get this out of your heads. Seriously get it out of your heads and start using your heads properly.

They work just fine, better actually.

Quote

I'm being serious.

 

Quote

Action and reaction in EQUAL measures, no matter what. Action and then reaction is the order of the day in all things in all ways, in all atmospheric changes.

As long as it's straight up and down right?

Quote

A rocket uses full thrust of its fuel to aascend VERTICALLY. It cannot use so much and just accelerate faster and faster. It just can't be done vertically.
Once a rocket is at full thrust for lift off, it either lifts off at speed or it falls to the ground.
If it lifts off at speed in how they are meant to, then it will lift off at full thrust. There is no more thrust to be had. It has to hit full speed right there and then and will only keep that speed if the fuel is there to allow it at full thrust.

Nope.  They accelerate from zero.  If you would like to see how well a vehicle of any type responds to instantaneous thrust, (let's say 80kmh), park a car on the railroad tracks and see what happens when the train(instantaneous thrust) is applied.

Quote

Note. This does not apply to Horizontal aircraft. Please note this  before jumping in head first.

No, they also must accelerate from zero. 

Quote

You get one shot at full thrust vertical lift off with a rocket. If it doesn't shoot into the air at great speed, it's going to lose stability and crash. There is no other way it can work to get high into the sky.
When I say high into the sky, I mean to a certain height and then it's spent due to the fuel being used up within a minute or so; and that's basically it.

  Again, they accelerate from zero, turn at a higher elevation, inertia, burn, go into orbit. 

Quote

All the rest of it that people view on their TV sets, is all bunkum.

And the people who watch it in person?

I don't think you quite grasped what I said. Deliberate? I'm not sure.

Of course anything that moves has to accelerate but that wasn't what I said. I said vertical acceleration for a ROCKET requires FULL thrust, as in, it requires FULL acceleration. It cannot just build up acceleration like a car or a plane can moving horizontally.

Now do you grasp it?

I haven't made a formula for it. So how can it be tested?

F+fv+EV/DM*rM

There you go. There's my formula.

Just use the same way you test things now by using atmospheric pressure as it's used. that's all you need to know.
You've been explained to as to how atmospheric pressure works on density.

The simple thing is, atmospheric pressure acting on any dense matter pushed against it and taking up that space by compressing that matter out of the way of the objects surface area and volume, creating a push on push effect that determines the measured weight of that object upon man made scales.

Taking the pressure of 1kg per cm² or around 14.7 lbs per square inch.
Anyone wants to make a formula out of, then do so.

It's real and gravity isn't, so once people understand what the truth is, a lot more stuff will become much clearer.


Edie: maybe omega can rig one up, he seems very smart.

Quote from: markjo on December 16, 2014, 09:47:04 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2014, 09:13:38 AM

Of course anything that moves has to accelerate but that wasn't what I said. I said vertical acceleration for a ROCKET requires FULL thrust, as in, it requires FULL acceleration. It cannot just build up acceleration like a car or a plane can moving horizontally.

Why is a rocket different than a helicopter or Harrier jump jet?  Don't they all operate on the same fundamental principle of action/reaction?

There was another thread were his claims were debunked with numerous demonstrations of jump jets taking off.  He went quiet and dropped out the thread, now he pretends it never happened...