Simple Balloon "Rocket"...

Why do you need to be told here, can you not do your own research?

Uh... no he can't.  sceptimatic's proven that fact dozens of times here LOL.

Why don't you try your new sum septic, now it has been fixed by a smarter man than you.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how the gravity equation works and how it is tested to prove it works as we are told.

*sigh*

The Cavendish experiment, performed in 1797–98 by British scientist Henry Cavendish, was the first experiment to measure the force of gravity between masses in the laboratory[1] and the first to yield accurate values for the gravitational constant.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how the gravity equation works and how it is tested to prove it works as we are told.
I see a lot of equations put up about all sorts of stuff and it is less than impressive. You see, we are humans, we are primitive. We need PROOF that these equations relate to reality and not just a bunch of numbers and letters describing crap.
Don't come back with anything other than explaianing it for gravity to show how it works.
I'm never impressed with comebacks of, "oh ho, look at scepti, he can't work them out, any kindergarten kid does this before breakfast."
And blah blah blah.

Omega looks like he may have a chance to explain a few things, so here we go.

Omega: Can you explain in basic terms the gravity equation and how it proves what it supposedly proves.
Can you also tell me when this equation was first used as absolute proof the equation works.
An experiment that gives a person no doubt it is what it is, that cannot be rigged to fit will also be good.
Can you try and refrain from coming out with stuff like, " everyone knows what gravity is, it's been tested" and what not, just lay it out in basic terms what the equation means in testable science.

Remember not to forget who first done this equation for it to be valid today, regardless of nobody knowing what the hell it is.
If anyone else can do it, then do it. Stop the idle chit chat about denpressure being destroyed. Denpressure is alive and kicking because it's as real as it gets for any layperson to understand.

I understand that you people work on copying stuff and making out the equations are all valid, etc, which naturally destroys your ability to actually critically think against that system.

I'll bypass the usual onslaught but inbetween it, I expect some clarification for what I've asked, or I'll be forced to pur gravity where it belongs. In the fantasy books.

Well, here's the thing, sceptimatic. Several times now you've asked that we show some calculation or give a detailed detailed explanation for something and you'll show in detail how it's wrong. After providing the requested calculations or details, you simply refuse to hold up your end of the bargain, continuing to deny the correctness of the responses while refusing to show why you think so, as promised.

So, no, not this time. Lets discuss the shortcomings with the denpressure formula as originally presented, and how it could possibly be made to work before moving on to another detailed spoon feeding that you will then declare "not good enough!"

Of course I realize that detailed explanations of the gravity equation are available from many places, so you can simply bypass us and get the same information elsewhere; refusing to deliver it to your feet tied up in a bow is little hardship on you. Meanwhile, relevant results on searches for "denpressure" only point to this site, and you seem to be the only one here who claims to know anything about it. Since this seems to be the only place where this can be examined, we're stuck with you as the only source of explanation.

I'll tell you what, though. I'm willing to move on to the gravity equation without a satisfactory resolution of your denpressure formula if you'll first make good on your promise to show your calculations that give the average acceleration necessary to accelerate from 0 to 17,000 mi/hr in 8 minutes as 5 miles/sec² or whatever else you think it is now. The details are here http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61836.msg1633765#msg1633765 and here http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61836.msg1633875#msg1633875.

So, back to the changes I suggested to your formula. Can you see why I say changes are necessary? You cannot add Hz to Newtons or meters to the seventh power per second squared. If one of the the changes suggested looks promising, which do you think is more likely to be right?

Can you come up with a value for the constant S or S' (or reformulate your expression) so a brick dropped from 5 m takes about one second to fall and a similar brick dropped from 20 m takes about two seconds to fall? Gravity can answer these and gives answers that compare well with experiments. How do you make your formula give the known answers? What values should be used for fv, E, and rM in these cases?

..............Since V = M/D, then these can be simplified to

Q = F+S*fv²+E*rM

or

Q = F+S'*fv+E*rM   ................

Nice work on all of that by the way.   

Many students when introduced to dimensional analysis dread it and think it's dumb. When applied, though, it's actually a very powerful way to tell if there are fundamental errors in your approach; if the units don't work, the answer is wrong.

I wouldn't think it's dumb, it's just unfortunate my current math abilities aren't even at that level.

Do your sum septic or shut up. Putting shit on other people wont help you out of this one. The old wife's tale about a fool will show his form in the end just bit you real hard.

Do your sum septic or shut up. Putting shit on other people wont help you out of this one. The old wife's tale about a fool will show his form in the end just bit you real hard.

There is no old wives tale about what you just said. You just made that up.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for one of you air heads to show me how gravity is calculated and by what means was it tested. Plus, I'd like to know when this calculation was first made to show accuracy and legitimacy of the actual equation/formula or whatever you wannabe scientists want to call it.

Don't sit there barking on about my denpressure theory and pretending you know the equations and formula when you don't even understand the theory, you pack of clowns.

Here you go septic, same sum used for electrostatic force as for gravity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb%27s_law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavendish_experiment

Maths seems to do your head in, like most people with big dumb ideas. Still recon you are only 1/2 mad but 100% bulshit.

1/2 mad but 100% bulshit

About right.

I notice how he completely ignores A2A's post.....

Here you go septic, same sum used for electrostatic force as for gravity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb%27s_law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavendish_experiment

Maths seems to do your head in, like most people with big dumb ideas. Still recon you are only 1/2 mad but 100% bulshit.

Oh ok, so gravity is now electrostatically charged particles, or something like that, or acts the same but isn't the same, it's just coincidentally the same?

Like I said before. Make some sense about how gravity is shown and why the eqwuations make sense.
Do this in your own words and explain them very simply.
Also, I'd like to know who was the frist person to physically test out the equations to get the 9.81m/s gravity carry on. You know; things like that.
Stop bringing up silly wiki stuff related to nothing if it's not what we are talking about.

Quote

1/2 mad but 100% bulshit

About right.

I notice how he completely ignores A2A's post.....

His post means nothing. He's rigged up a formula for something he doesn't understand.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on December 15, 2014, 01:53:02 AM

Quote

1/2 mad but 100% bulshit

About right.

I notice how he completely ignores A2A's post.....

His post means nothing. He's rigged up a formula for something he doesn't understand.

Stop stalling and take us through your denpressure formula.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 15, 2014, 04:57:11 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on December 15, 2014, 01:53:02 AM

Quote

1/2 mad but 100% bulshit

About right.

I notice how he completely ignores A2A's post.....

His post means nothing. He's rigged up a formula for something he doesn't understand.

Stop stalling and take us through your denpressure formula.

Stop stalling and take me through your bullshit gravity baloney.

Come on septic stop with the fv under the table and do us some sums.

Come on septic stop with the fv under the table and do us some sums.

Come on Guv stop with the BS and tell me how this gravity equation came about and how it marries up with real life observations and who first used it to verify its authenticity.

septic Cavendish did it. Why do you think I keep sticking it under your nose. Read the bloody link.

I think at this point in time, we should all thank sceptimatic for reducing to school playground nonsense what could've shaped up as an interesting debate.  I've noted over some time now that every thread this moron gets involved with invariably runs to ten or more pages, versus those where he doesn't average out at 2 or 3 pages.  There's an obvious correlation.

At any rate, it's now more than obvious that sceptimatic is totally incapable of clarifying the maths behind the fictitious formula he made up to "explain" his notion of denpressure.

As Shakespeare said, sceptimatic has been "hoist with his own petard".   How embarrassing.  Maybe now he'll shut up for 5 minutes LOL.

Quote from: guv on December 15, 2014, 05:22:43 AM

Come on septic stop with the fv under the table and do us some sums.

Come on Guv stop with the BS and tell me how this gravity equation came about and how it marries up with real life observations and who first used it to verify its authenticity.

Current gravitation came up in part because no force is felt when in free fall. A force will be felt. There are other reasons why gravitation came about as well. Another example is that different masses fall at the same rate on free fall. Once again a force can't do that.

Quote from: guv on December 15, 2014, 05:22:43 AM

Come on septic stop with the fv under the table and do us some sums.

Come on Guv stop with the BS and tell me how this gravity equation came about and how it marries up with real life observations and who first used it to verify its authenticity.

The gravity equasion was actually deduced to explain celestial motion and it also explains the gravitational strength differences found on Earth and it has been used to calculate the trajectories of space ships.  It also makes geometric sense and it follows the inverse square law.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 15, 2014, 05:28:07 AM

Quote from: guv on December 15, 2014, 05:22:43 AM

Come on septic stop with the fv under the table and do us some sums.

Come on Guv stop with the BS and tell me how this gravity equation came about and how it marries up with real life observations and who first used it to verify its authenticity.

Current gravitation came up in part because no force is felt when in free fall. A force will be felt. There are other reasons why gravitation came about as well. Another example is that different masses fall at the same rate on free fall. Once again a force can't do that.

Hmmm. If different masses fall at the same rate on free fall, then that destroys gravity in an instant unless you can come up with some more bullshit to get out of it.
Why?

Because if gravity is dependent on mass, then things of different mass should not fall at the same rate in what you people deem as a vacuum. They should be pulled or whatever you people call the gravity force or whatever the hell it is - differently.

Let's be fair here. You use the moon and lots of other differing sized planets to show us this and you harp on about the larger the mass the more it changes the gravity pull.

Quote from: sokarul on December 15, 2014, 09:50:29 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 15, 2014, 05:28:07 AM

Quote from: guv on December 15, 2014, 05:22:43 AM

Come on septic stop with the fv under the table and do us some sums.

Come on Guv stop with the BS and tell me how this gravity equation came about and how it marries up with real life observations and who first used it to verify its authenticity.

Current gravitation came up in part because no force is felt when in free fall. A force will be felt. There are other reasons why gravitation came about as well. Another example is that different masses fall at the same rate on free fall. Once again a force can't do that.

Hmmm. If different masses fall at the same rate on free fall, then that destroys gravity in an instant unless you can come up with some more bullshit to get out of it.
Why?

Because if gravity is dependent on mass, then things of different mass should not fall at the same rate in what you people deem as a vacuum. They should be pulled or whatever you people call the gravity force or whatever the hell it is - differently.

Let's be fair here. You use the moon and lots of other differing sized planets to show us this and you harp on about the larger the mass the more it changes the gravity pull.

Please provide the results of your experiments to prove that things of different mass do not fall at the same speed.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 15, 2014, 10:39:00 AM

Quote from: sokarul on December 15, 2014, 09:50:29 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 15, 2014, 05:28:07 AM

Quote from: guv on December 15, 2014, 05:22:43 AM

Come on septic stop with the fv under the table and do us some sums.

Come on Guv stop with the BS and tell me how this gravity equation came about and how it marries up with real life observations and who first used it to verify its authenticity.

Current gravitation came up in part because no force is felt when in free fall. A force will be felt. There are other reasons why gravitation came about as well. Another example is that different masses fall at the same rate on free fall. Once again a force can't do that.

Hmmm. If different masses fall at the same rate on free fall, then that destroys gravity in an instant unless you can come up with some more bullshit to get out of it.
Why?

Because if gravity is dependent on mass, then things of different mass should not fall at the same rate in what you people deem as a vacuum. They should be pulled or whatever you people call the gravity force or whatever the hell it is - differently.

Let's be fair here. You use the moon and lots of other differing sized planets to show us this and you harp on about the larger the mass the more it changes the gravity pull.

Please provide the results of your experiments to prove that things of different mass do not fall at the same speed.

Try and learn to read.

Quote from: sokarul on December 15, 2014, 09:50:29 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 15, 2014, 05:28:07 AM

Quote from: guv on December 15, 2014, 05:22:43 AM

Come on septic stop with the fv under the table and do us some sums.

Come on Guv stop with the BS and tell me how this gravity equation came about and how it marries up with real life observations and who first used it to verify its authenticity.

Current gravitation came up in part because no force is felt when in free fall. A force will be felt. There are other reasons why gravitation came about as well. Another example is that different masses fall at the same rate on free fall. Once again a force can't do that.

Hmmm. If different masses fall at the same rate on free fall, then that destroys gravity in an instant unless you can come up with some more bullshit to get out of it.
Why?

Because if gravity is dependent on mass, then things of different mass should not fall at the same rate in what you people deem as a vacuum. They should be pulled or whatever you people call the gravity force or whatever the hell it is - differently.

Let's be fair here. You use the moon and lots of other differing sized planets to show us this and you harp on about the larger the mass the more it changes the gravity pull.

This just shows your inability to comprehend the theory.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 15, 2014, 10:39:00 AM

Quote from: sokarul on December 15, 2014, 09:50:29 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 15, 2014, 05:28:07 AM

Quote from: guv on December 15, 2014, 05:22:43 AM

Come on septic stop with the fv under the table and do us some sums.

Come on Guv stop with the BS and tell me how this gravity equation came about and how it marries up with real life observations and who first used it to verify its authenticity.

Current gravitation came up in part because no force is felt when in free fall. A force will be felt. There are other reasons why gravitation came about as well. Another example is that different masses fall at the same rate on free fall. Once again a force can't do that.

Hmmm. If different masses fall at the same rate on free fall, then that destroys gravity in an instant unless you can come up with some more bullshit to get out of it.
Why?

Because if gravity is dependent on mass, then things of different mass should not fall at the same rate in what you people deem as a vacuum. They should be pulled or whatever you people call the gravity force or whatever the hell it is - differently.

Let's be fair here. You use the moon and lots of other differing sized planets to show us this and you harp on about the larger the mass the more it changes the gravity pull.

This just shows your inability to comprehend the theory.

Is it any wonder when it's tarnished with different shades of bullshit.

You people bark on about mass being the key to the strength of gravity. The bigger the mass, the greater the gravitational pull. This is what you people say.

So if that's the case then the same should apply to objects of different mass falling towards your big ball Earth in free fall, yet you people harp on about any mass falls at the same rate. It destroys your gravity theory.
You can keep coming back saying I don't understand it whilst you pretend you do but the truth is, it's a theory that makes no sense at all and can't be explained, as I said before.

All explained here - http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/1DKin/Lesson-5/The-Big-Misconception

Quote from: sokarul on December 15, 2014, 09:50:29 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 15, 2014, 05:28:07 AM

Quote from: guv on December 15, 2014, 05:22:43 AM

Come on septic stop with the fv under the table and do us some sums.

Come on Guv stop with the BS and tell me how this gravity equation came about and how it marries up with real life observations and who first used it to verify its authenticity.

Current gravitation came up in part because no force is felt when in free fall. A force will be felt. There are other reasons why gravitation came about as well. Another example is that different masses fall at the same rate on free fall. Once again a force can't do that.

Hmmm. If different masses fall at the same rate on free fall, then that destroys gravity in an instant unless you can come up with some more bullshit to get out of it.
Why?

Because if gravity is dependent on mass, then things of different mass should not fall at the same rate in what you people deem as a vacuum. They should be pulled or whatever you people call the gravity force or whatever the hell it is - differently.

Let's be fair here. You use the moon and lots of other differing sized planets to show us this and you harp on about the larger the mass the more it changes the gravity pull.

Things of different masses actually do feel different amounts of force do to gravity, but they also have different ammounts of mass.  The gravity equasion outputs a force that's proportional to the mass of the object in question, and some simple algebra will tell you that all objects no matter what the mass is accelerate at the same rate do to gravity.

The gravity equasion also suggests that if you drop something then the Earth then Earth will fall towards that object by a tiny ammount that's way too small to measure with everyday objects, but the Moon actually tugs around the Earth as it orbits.

Quote from: sokarul on December 15, 2014, 09:50:29 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 15, 2014, 05:28:07 AM

Quote from: guv on December 15, 2014, 05:22:43 AM

Come on septic stop with the fv under the table and do us some sums.

Come on Guv stop with the BS and tell me how this gravity equation came about and how it marries up with real life observations and who first used it to verify its authenticity.

Current gravitation came up in part because no force is felt when in free fall. A force will be felt. There are other reasons why gravitation came about as well. Another example is that different masses fall at the same rate on free fall. Once again a force can't do that.

Hmmm. If different masses fall at the same rate on free fall, then that destroys gravity in an instant

No, it doesn't. See below.

unless you can come up with some more bullshit to get out of it.
Why?

Because if gravity is dependent on mass, then things of different mass should not fall at the same rate in what you people deem as a vacuum. They should be pulled or whatever you people call the gravity force or whatever the hell it is - differently.

No bullshit here except for yours.

The force gravity exerts on an object is directly proportional to its mass (and some other things that are constants on or near the surface of the Earth[nb]They can vary ever so slightly slightly, but close enough for everyday work.[/nb]).

Acceleration is directly proportional to force and inversely proportional to mass. Since the force due to gravity is directly proportional to mass, the acceleration of an object due to gravity both directly proportional and inversely proportional to mass, meaning the mass factors out, making the acceleration independent of mass.

Let's be fair here. You use the moon and lots of other differing sized planets to show us this and you harp on about the larger the mass the more it changes the gravity pull.

Let's be fair here[nb]Yeah, right.  [/nb]. We've given you more information about how gravity works. Now, you give us more information about how to use your denpressure formula.

What should I use for fv, E, and rM for, say, a brick dropped from 5 m? Let's say the brick has a mass of 2.920 kg (weight 6 lb 7 oz) [My wife would kill me if she knew what I was using her kitchen scale for!], length 203 mm, width 90 mm, and thickness 64 mm (8" X 3.5" X 2.5") If you don't know how to calculate volume and density from that information, I can show you.

I suspect you were just pulling that "formula" out of your butt since it clearly had no chance of working. Like most of your ideas, it appears to be gibberish. In case there is actually anything there, how are the parameters listed above applied to your formula in this case: dropping a brick from 5 meters? If this is somehow related to air pressure or temperature, (these don't appear directly in your formula), then use 1 atm and 20 C. If you need other parameters, choose something typical and tell us what they are.

Any more progress on that shuttle acceleration problem if you want to postpone what looks more and more like the denpressure debacle?
 
 

Quote from: guv on December 15, 2014, 05:22:43 AM

Come on septic stop with the fv under the table and do us some sums.

Come on Guv stop with the BS and tell me how this gravity equation came about and how it marries up with real life observations and who first used it to verify its authenticity.

If gravity is bullshit, then who cares how the equation works?  If your denpressure formula is so much better than gravity, then why don't you want to show us an example of how it works?

Quote from: sokarul on December 15, 2014, 09:50:29 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 15, 2014, 05:28:07 AM

Quote from: guv on December 15, 2014, 05:22:43 AM

Come on septic stop with the fv under the table and do us some sums.

Come on Guv stop with the BS and tell me how this gravity equation came about and how it marries up with real life observations and who first used it to verify its authenticity.

Current gravitation came up in part because no force is felt when in free fall. A force will be felt. There are other reasons why gravitation came about as well. Another example is that different masses fall at the same rate on free fall. Once again a force can't do that.

Hmmm. If different masses fall at the same rate on free fall, then that destroys gravity in an instant unless you can come up with some more bullshit to get out of it.
Why?

Gravity is not a force. That is how. I don't know how many times you can be told this. When objects are not in free fall, a force can be measured though. Thus the for equation that was posted, plus other equations.

By default, denpressure would be a force, and that could be felt. But it never is, strange.

Because if gravity is dependent on mass, then things of different mass should not fall at the same rate in what you people deem as a vacuum. They should be pulled or whatever you people call the gravity force or whatever the hell it is - differently.

Yes, that s why we know it's not a force.

Let's b fair here. You use the moon and lots of other differing sized planets to show us this and you harp on about the larger the mass the more it changes the gravity pull.

And? Are you going to come up with an excuse on why denpressure can't be felt?

septic can you explain how you think the line in a fraction works, 1/2, your formula was at least upside down if not 100% bullshit.
Stop trying to avoid your math's lesson, you need it badly. Your last few questions would answer themselves if you did the sums handed to you on a platter. Stop with the fv under the table, you may need two hands.