Simple Balloon "Rocket"...

Quote from: sokarul on November 30, 2014, 08:04:32 AM

Boats of course float because they are able to displace their weight in water.  If a boat weighs 1,000 pounds then it will displace 1,000 pounds of water. I do not see where denpressure comes in.

What do you think is pushing that boat down into the water to displace that water?
This should actually tell you 100% that denpressure is the cause of it all.
The density of the  boat and it's measured weight, will displace it's exact weight of water due to the amount of atmospheric pressure upon that boat.

Then how can you get steel ships to float when steel blocks of exactly the same density sink?

Quote from: sokarul on November 30, 2014, 08:04:32 AM

Boats of course float because they are able to displace their weight in water.  If a boat weighs 1,000 pounds then it will displace 1,000 pounds of water. I do not see where denpressure comes in.

What do you think is pushing that boat down into the water to displace that water?
This should actually tell you 100% that denpressure is the cause of it all.
The density of the  boat and it's measured weight, will displace it's exact weight of water due to the amount of atmospheric pressure upon that boat.

If this were true then a oil container ship should ride the same height whether it was full or empty.

Quote from: sokarul on November 30, 2014, 08:04:32 AM

Boats of course float because they are able to displace their weight in water.  If a boat weighs 1,000 pounds then it will displace 1,000 pounds of water. I do not see where denpressure comes in.

What do you think is pushing that boat down into the water to displace that water?
This should actually tell you 100% that denpressure is the cause of it all.
The density of the  boat and it's measured weight, will displace it's exact weight of water due to the amount of atmospheric pressure upon that boat.

How do we measure that pressure?

A submarine sinks due to displacement septic. So do we now have underwater dunny pressure or can we just go back to the gravity idea. 

A submarine sinks due to displacement septic. So do we now have underwater dunny pressure or can we just go back to the gravity idea.

This is a pretty good point. Why do things sink underwater in the denpressure perspective, if they are not under the effect of the atmosphere? You could say that water works the same way air does, and causes its own denpessure, but then why do things fall much slower in water, if water is more dense?

So you agree that pressure acts in all directions?

Yes but only due to the cause which is downward pressure against resistance of denser matter, whether that's ground or sea or object on the ground or on the sea.

Here is a picture of a water molecule. See how the angle and distance between atoms is listed? They don't change much. There is no expanding. You need to understand this. 

You need to undrstand that putting something like that up is pointless.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 29, 2014, 03:15:50 PM

Quote from: 29silhouette on November 29, 2014, 12:55:56 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 29, 2014, 11:53:35 AM

Yes but it doesn't float on ascent, so he has to understand this and maybe you do as well. Come back to me when you get your heads right.

They're floating about the cabin while still gaining altitude.  Guv posted a link to a wikipedia page that explains it.  Are you saying that site is wrong?

They do not appear to float whilst gaining altitude. Only on descent to match free fall, do they appear to float. That's all this zero g plane is. It's a free fall plane at height that can allow people to fall with it to simulate weightlessness. the truth is they are still falling at speed but the cabin pressure doesn't give the air friction upon them like it would be outside, so they appear to float.

So you're saying the site and diagram are wrong.

If that site says you are weightless on ascent, then yes, it's wrong. If you think otherwise, then it's no wonder you're struggling to grasp this stuff.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2014, 08:10:09 AM

Quote from: sokarul on November 30, 2014, 08:04:32 AM

Boats of course float because they are able to displace their weight in water.  If a boat weighs 1,000 pounds then it will displace 1,000 pounds of water. I do not see where denpressure comes in.

What do you think is pushing that boat down into the water to displace that water?
This should actually tell you 100% that denpressure is the cause of it all.
The density of the  boat and it's measured weight, will displace it's exact weight of water due to the amount of atmospheric pressure upon that boat.

Then how can you get steel ships to float when steel blocks of exactly the same density sink?

Because water is denser than air. If you hollow out a dense metal , then it fills with air. Place that dense metal in dense water and that dense metal will start to be pushed down into the water but will equalise with the pressure outside that is already pushing down on the water, creating a grip.

If you push water away, that water comes back to equalise the pressure of what's pushed it away. In this case the air inside a boat pushing the boats mass/density down, so the water pushes back around the sides of it and grips it. or squeezes it, so it can't push down any further, unless you add more density/mass to that boat.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2014, 08:10:09 AM

Quote from: sokarul on November 30, 2014, 08:04:32 AM

Boats of course float because they are able to displace their weight in water.  If a boat weighs 1,000 pounds then it will displace 1,000 pounds of water. I do not see where denpressure comes in.

What do you think is pushing that boat down into the water to displace that water?
This should actually tell you 100% that denpressure is the cause of it all.
The density of the  boat and it's measured weight, will displace it's exact weight of water due to the amount of atmospheric pressure upon that boat.

If this were true then a oil container ship should ride the same height whether it was full or empty.

When it's full it's displacing air and adding density. When it's empty is full of air and the water density can easily squeeze it up.

A submarine sinks due to displacement septic. So do we now have underwater dunny pressure or can we just go back to the gravity idea.

I'm pleased you brought this up because it helps to show why dense objects sink or displace more than others.

A submarine sinks due to allowing atmospheric pressure to push water into it to give it more density. The more water you alloe into it, the more it sinks.
The thing is, it can only sink if it takes in water and the more water acting on the air inside of it, creates a crush against that air, as air compresses.

As soon as you stop water being allowed into the sub, it will simply stop sinking or rising. It will hold a depth.
The only way you can sink it, is to keep taking in water from the water pressure build up from above that is pushed in by the force of atmospheric pressure on top of the water that is constantly pushing down.

As you well know. A sub will be crushed if it goes too far down due to compression of air inside not able to withstand the outside pressure, whch will breach the hull and force out the air back to the top of the water to equalise with the atmospheric pressure above the water.

No matter what you can think of. Atmospheric pressure is they key to it all. No gravity involved.

Quote from: guv on November 30, 2014, 05:13:12 PM

A submarine sinks due to displacement septic. So do we now have underwater dunny pressure or can we just go back to the gravity idea.

This is a pretty good point. Why do things sink underwater in the denpressure perspective, if they are not under the effect of the atmosphere? You could say that water works the same way air does, and causes its own denpessure, but then why do things fall much slower in water, if water is more dense?

Hopefully I explained that above.

About things falling slower. They do because they are still porous, which is what I've been telling you all along.
A gold bar will fall extremely fast because it's much less porous but not completely. A block of dense wood will fall much slower because it's more porous and so have buoyancy, just like in the atmosphere things have buoyancy, only it's viewed differently and requires more in depth though as to why, which should be clear to people who can think.

This thread gets increasingly amusing.

This thread gets increasingly amusing.

It would get more educational if you started taking notice of what I'm telling you. The winners will be those that grasp what I'm telling them, however long it takes to sink in.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on December 01, 2014, 01:55:02 AM

This thread gets increasingly amusing.

It would get more educational if you started taking notice of what I'm telling you. The winners will be those that grasp what I'm telling them, however long it takes to sink in.

Do you ever think to yourself: "hmm...maybe I'm delusional?"

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 01, 2014, 02:13:44 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on December 01, 2014, 01:55:02 AM

This thread gets increasingly amusing.

It would get more educational if you started taking notice of what I'm telling you. The winners will be those that grasp what I'm telling them, however long it takes to sink in.

Do you ever think to yourself: "hmm...maybe I'm delusional?"

No. Do you ever sit down and think, " how in the hell have I feel for this utter rubbish all of my life"...?

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on December 01, 2014, 03:51:28 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 01, 2014, 02:13:44 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on December 01, 2014, 01:55:02 AM

This thread gets increasingly amusing.

It would get more educational if you started taking notice of what I'm telling you. The winners will be those that grasp what I'm telling them, however long it takes to sink in.

Do you ever think to yourself: "hmm...maybe I'm delusional?"

No. Do you ever sit down and think, " how in the hell have I feel for this utter rubbish all of my life"...?

No, my thoughts tend to be more coherent than that.

It would get more educational if you started taking notice of what I'm telling you. The winners will be those that grasp what I'm telling them, however long it takes to sink in.

LOL... it would seem that sceptimatic's delusional state of mind [sic] would have him seriously believe that anybody—even one single person on this forum—takes any notice of what he says.  And he still seems not to understand that any of his kindergarten-style reasoning was "grasped" months ago and dismissed as absolute drivel.

Anybody who accepted even for a nanosecond any of his absurd ramblings would undoubtedly have to admit to an IQ in double-digits.

sceptimatic + education = oxymoron

   

Quote from: markjo on November 30, 2014, 10:51:13 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 30, 2014, 08:10:09 AM

Quote from: sokarul on November 30, 2014, 08:04:32 AM

Boats of course float because they are able to displace their weight in water.  If a boat weighs 1,000 pounds then it will displace 1,000 pounds of water. I do not see where denpressure comes in.

What do you think is pushing that boat down into the water to displace that water?
This should actually tell you 100% that denpressure is the cause of it all.
The density of the  boat and it's measured weight, will displace it's exact weight of water due to the amount of atmospheric pressure upon that boat.

Then how can you get steel ships to float when steel blocks of exactly the same density sink?

Because water is denser than air. If you hollow out a dense metal , then it fills with air. Place that dense metal in dense water and that dense metal will start to be pushed down into the water but will equalise with the pressure outside that is already pushing down on the water, creating a grip.

If you push water away, that water comes back to equalise the pressure of what's pushed it away. In this case the air inside a boat pushing the boats mass/density down, so the water pushes back around the sides of it and grips it. or squeezes it, so it can't push down any further, unless you add more density/mass to that boat.

Be careful scepti, that's very close to how an RE'er would explain it.

If that site says you are weightless on ascent, then yes, it's wrong. If you think otherwise, then it's no wonder you're struggling to grasp this stuff.

Poor scepti still can't quite grasp that inertia thing.

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 30, 2014, 09:24:45 PM

Quote from: guv on November 30, 2014, 05:13:12 PM

A submarine sinks due to displacement septic. So do we now have underwater dunny pressure or can we just go back to the gravity idea.

This is a pretty good point. Why do things sink underwater in the denpressure perspective, if they are not under the effect of the atmosphere? You could say that water works the same way air does, and causes its own denpessure, but then why do things fall much slower in water, if water is more dense?

Hopefully I explained that above.

About things falling slower. They do because they are still porous, which is what I've been telling you all along.
A gold bar will fall extremely fast because it's much less porous but not completely. A block of dense wood will fall much slower because it's more porous and so have buoyancy, just like in the atmosphere things have buoyancy, only it's viewed differently and requires more in depth though as to why, which should be clear to people who can think.

Please provide relative fall times for gold, steel and aluminium.

A block of dense wood will fall much slower because it's more porous and so have buoyancy, just like in the atmosphere things have buoyancy, only it's viewed differently and requires more in depth though as to why, which should be clear to people who can think.

This last comment obviously excludes sceptimatic himself.   

Be careful scepti, that's very close to how an RE'er would explain it.

Of course it's close. That's because what I'm saying is true and all that's added is bullshit gravity to make it look like it's more complicated.

Poor scepti still can't quite grasp that inertia thing.

I can't grasp something that is fictional

Quote from: markjo on December 01, 2014, 05:32:09 AM

Be careful scepti, that's very close to how an RE'er would explain it.

Of course it's close. That's because what I'm saying is true and all that's added is bullshit gravity to make it look like it's more complicated.

Buoyancy pushes up and gravity pulls down.  How complicated is that? 

Quote from: markjo on December 01, 2014, 05:32:09 AM

Poor scepti still can't quite grasp that inertia thing.

I can't grasp something that is fictional

Then why does a ball keep going upwards for a while when you throw it upwards?

Buoyancy pushes up and gravity pulls down.  How complicated is that? 

It's not complicated to say, it just doesn't work when explained by MSS.

Then why does a ball keep going upwards for a while when you throw it upwards?

Due to the energy you exerted to overcome the pressure on that mass/density.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 29, 2014, 06:47:57 AM

Not going to quote all of your post, just using this as a marker to whom am I answering to.

You have quite a problem there. Potential energy depends on the existance of a force field, and in fact, its the result of an object changing position towards a higher potential zone in the field (an electron going towards a - charged plate gains potential energy, for example).Now there's two problems with denpressure here.

• What field is causing the ball to gain potential energy?
• In the case of the field to be denpressure's pressure field, then decreasing the field should cause the energy to decrease

Im just gonna quote myself until scepti answers this.

Quote from: Conker on November 29, 2014, 07:02:26 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 29, 2014, 06:47:57 AM

Not going to quote all of your post, just using this as a marker to whom am I answering to.

You have quite a problem there. Potential energy depends on the existance of a force field, and in fact, its the result of an object changing position towards a higher potential zone in the field (an electron going towards a - charged plate gains potential energy, for example).Now there's two problems with denpressure here.

• What field is causing the ball to gain potential energy?
• In the case of the field to be denpressure's pressure field, then decreasing the field should cause the energy to decrease

Im just gonna quote myself until scepti answers this.

Don't forget you think I'm a troll so why are you even bothering with a troll?

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 01, 2014, 01:19:28 AM

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 30, 2014, 09:24:45 PM

Quote from: guv on November 30, 2014, 05:13:12 PM

A submarine sinks due to displacement septic. So do we now have underwater dunny pressure or can we just go back to the gravity idea.

This is a pretty good point. Why do things sink underwater in the denpressure perspective, if they are not under the effect of the atmosphere? You could say that water works the same way air does, and causes its own denpessure, but then why do things fall much slower in water, if water is more dense?

Hopefully I explained that above.

About things falling slower. They do because they are still porous, which is what I've been telling you all along.
A gold bar will fall extremely fast because it's much less porous but not completely. A block of dense wood will fall much slower because it's more porous and so have buoyancy, just like in the atmosphere things have buoyancy, only it's viewed differently and requires more in depth though as to why, which should be clear to people who can think.

Please provide relative fall times for gold, steel and aluminium.

Please answer.

Quote from: inquisitive on December 01, 2014, 05:55:39 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 01, 2014, 01:19:28 AM

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 30, 2014, 09:24:45 PM

Quote from: guv on November 30, 2014, 05:13:12 PM

A submarine sinks due to displacement septic. So do we now have underwater dunny pressure or can we just go back to the gravity idea.

This is a pretty good point. Why do things sink underwater in the denpressure perspective, if they are not under the effect of the atmosphere? You could say that water works the same way air does, and causes its own denpessure, but then why do things fall much slower in water, if water is more dense?

Hopefully I explained that above.

About things falling slower. They do because they are still porous, which is what I've been telling you all along.
A gold bar will fall extremely fast because it's much less porous but not completely. A block of dense wood will fall much slower because it's more porous and so have buoyancy, just like in the atmosphere things have buoyancy, only it's viewed differently and requires more in depth though as to why, which should be clear to people who can think.

Please provide relative fall times for gold, steel and aluminium.

Please answer.

Ok, let's go for Autumn. Gold falls fastest, then steel and then aluminium.
Now please provide detailed diagrams of things you can make with gold, steel and aluminium. 

Quote from: inquisitive on December 01, 2014, 10:20:09 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on December 01, 2014, 05:55:39 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 01, 2014, 01:19:28 AM

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 30, 2014, 09:24:45 PM

Quote from: guv on November 30, 2014, 05:13:12 PM

A submarine sinks due to displacement septic. So do we now have underwater dunny pressure or can we just go back to the gravity idea.

This is a pretty good point. Why do things sink underwater in the denpressure perspective, if they are not under the effect of the atmosphere? You could say that water works the same way air does, and causes its own denpessure, but then why do things fall much slower in water, if water is more dense?

Hopefully I explained that above.

About things falling slower. They do because they are still porous, which is what I've been telling you all along.
A gold bar will fall extremely fast because it's much less porous but not completely. A block of dense wood will fall much slower because it's more porous and so have buoyancy, just like in the atmosphere things have buoyancy, only it's viewed differently and requires more in depth though as to why, which should be clear to people who can think.

Please provide relative fall times for gold, steel and aluminium.

Please answer.

Ok, let's go for Autumn. Gold falls fastest, then steel and then aluminium.
Now please provide detailed diagrams of things you can make with gold, steel and aluminium. 

Please explain why and show proof with test results.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 01, 2014, 10:38:36 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on December 01, 2014, 10:20:09 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on December 01, 2014, 05:55:39 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 01, 2014, 01:19:28 AM

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 30, 2014, 09:24:45 PM

Quote from: guv on November 30, 2014, 05:13:12 PM

A submarine sinks due to displacement septic. So do we now have underwater dunny pressure or can we just go back to the gravity idea.

This is a pretty good point. Why do things sink underwater in the denpressure perspective, if they are not under the effect of the atmosphere? You could say that water works the same way air does, and causes its own denpessure, but then why do things fall much slower in water, if water is more dense?

Hopefully I explained that above.

About things falling slower. They do because they are still porous, which is what I've been telling you all along.
A gold bar will fall extremely fast because it's much less porous but not completely. A block of dense wood will fall much slower because it's more porous and so have buoyancy, just like in the atmosphere things have buoyancy, only it's viewed differently and requires more in depth though as to why, which should be clear to people who can think.

Please provide relative fall times for gold, steel and aluminium.

Please answer.

Ok, let's go for Autumn. Gold falls fastest, then steel and then aluminium.
Now please provide detailed diagrams of things you can make with gold, steel and aluminium. 

Please explain why and show proof with test results.

I was thinking of a real gold bar about 10 foot cubed. I then thought about a little steel bearing and an aluminium coke can filled with helium and sealed with a cork.
The test result for Autumn showed that the gold bar got stolen as it fell, fast. The ball bearing fell and rolled down a drain. And the coke can, somebody grabbed and tried to drink, which made them talk funny.