Simple Balloon "Rocket"...

Quote from: Göebbels on November 27, 2014, 06:53:26 AM

why does that last answer sound like a total cop out?

A cop out of what?
The cop out crew are those that type stuff like, "why does that last answer sound like a total cop out?"

A total cop out to that yes we can do 'all the tests' and they disprove your silly claims? 

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 06:58:32 AM

Quote from: Göebbels on November 27, 2014, 06:53:26 AM

why does that last answer sound like a total cop out?

A cop out of what?
The cop out crew are those that type stuff like, "why does that last answer sound like a total cop out?"

A total cop out to that yes we can do 'all the tests' and they disprove your silly claims? 

Ok then, stick to what you think.

Sceptic you might want to start thinking of excuses, I will be preforming another experiment tomorrow. I have a feeling you are not going to like the results.

Sceptic you might want to start thinking of excuses, I will be preforming another experiment tomorrow. I have a feeling you are not going to like the results.

How about explaining what you are going to do.

I am going to use a vacuum desiccator. The vacuum pump that it uses is not as strong and the vacuum gauge isn't right next to the desiccator. But, I can pick the desiccator up and use inertia magic fairys to keep the scale on. The desiccator will be able to reach it's peak vacuum and then sit there. The vacuum the pump pulls is somewhere around 15 inches of Hg.

I am going to use a vacuum desiccator. The vacuum pump that it uses is not as strong and the vacuum gauge isn't right next to the desiccator. But, I can pick the desiccator up and use inertia magic fairys to keep the scale on. The desiccator will be able to reach it's peak vacuum and then sit there. The vacuum the pump pulls is somewhere around 15 inches of Hg.

How about just putting a barometer inside?

I don't have one and household ones aren't made to go that low. Mercury barometer wouldn't fit. The vacuum pump evacuates a tank, there is a gauge on the tank. You will have to take my word that the tank is connected to the vacuum system I will be using.

Quote from: sokarul on November 27, 2014, 10:21:22 AM

I am going to use a vacuum desiccator. The vacuum pump that it uses is not as strong and the vacuum gauge isn't right next to the desiccator. But, I can pick the desiccator up and use inertia magic fairys to keep the scale on. The desiccator will be able to reach it's peak vacuum and then sit there. The vacuum the pump pulls is somewhere around 15 inches of Hg.

How about just putting a barometer inside?

How about both?

Correct me if I am wrong, but what should happen is this if gravity is true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale remains the same  or maybe goes up slightly.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

If denpressure if true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale goes down.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

Do we agree?

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 10:25:02 AM

Quote from: sokarul on November 27, 2014, 10:21:22 AM

I am going to use a vacuum desiccator. The vacuum pump that it uses is not as strong and the vacuum gauge isn't right next to the desiccator. But, I can pick the desiccator up and use inertia magic fairys to keep the scale on. The desiccator will be able to reach it's peak vacuum and then sit there. The vacuum the pump pulls is somewhere around 15 inches of Hg.

How about just putting a barometer inside?

How about both?

Correct me if I am wrong, but what should happen is this if gravity is true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale remains the same  or maybe goes up slightly.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

If denpressure if true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale goes down.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

Do we agree?

Yep but we also need to use two sets of scales. One digital and one manual. This is just to negate the battery influence of that scale.

It must also be done by clearly showing everything working as it should from start to finish.
Also it must be done with 3 separate objects of density. Wood, metal and plastic, for instance. Not necessarily that but something like that.

 

Quote from: Rama Set on November 27, 2014, 10:32:50 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 10:25:02 AM

Quote from: sokarul on November 27, 2014, 10:21:22 AM

I am going to use a vacuum desiccator. The vacuum pump that it uses is not as strong and the vacuum gauge isn't right next to the desiccator. But, I can pick the desiccator up and use inertia magic fairys to keep the scale on. The desiccator will be able to reach it's peak vacuum and then sit there. The vacuum the pump pulls is somewhere around 15 inches of Hg.

How about just putting a barometer inside?

How about both?

Correct me if I am wrong, but what should happen is this if gravity is true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale remains the same  or maybe goes up slightly.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

If denpressure if true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale goes down.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

Do we agree?

Yep but we also need to use two sets of scales. One digital and one manual. This is just to negate the battery influence of that scale.

It must also be done by clearly showing everything working as it should from start to finish.
Also it must be done with 3 separate objects of density. Wood, metal and plastic, for instance. Not necessarily that but something like that.

So this is likely a non-starter then.

I do not have a mechanical scale. Batteries cannot effect gravity or denpressure.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 10:53:43 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on November 27, 2014, 10:32:50 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 10:25:02 AM

Quote from: sokarul on November 27, 2014, 10:21:22 AM

I am going to use a vacuum desiccator. The vacuum pump that it uses is not as strong and the vacuum gauge isn't right next to the desiccator. But, I can pick the desiccator up and use inertia magic fairys to keep the scale on. The desiccator will be able to reach it's peak vacuum and then sit there. The vacuum the pump pulls is somewhere around 15 inches of Hg.

How about just putting a barometer inside?

How about both?

Correct me if I am wrong, but what should happen is this if gravity is true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale remains the same  or maybe goes up slightly.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

If denpressure if true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale goes down.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

Do we agree?

Yep but we also need to use two sets of scales. One digital and one manual. This is just to negate the battery influence of that scale.

It must also be done by clearly showing everything working as it should from start to finish.
Also it must be done with 3 separate objects of density. Wood, metal and plastic, for instance. Not necessarily that but something like that.

So this is likely a non-starter then.

Why? there is nothing in that, that is out of easy reach.
You have to agree that to test this out, it cannot be done on just one certain thing. It has to go through many tests to rubberstamp it one way or another.

I'm simply asking for two scales, one at a time and separate objects, one at a time. It's no more than half an hours experimenting in a small chamber.

Quote from: Rama Set on November 27, 2014, 11:02:26 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 10:53:43 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on November 27, 2014, 10:32:50 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 10:25:02 AM

Quote from: sokarul on November 27, 2014, 10:21:22 AM

I am going to use a vacuum desiccator. The vacuum pump that it uses is not as strong and the vacuum gauge isn't right next to the desiccator. But, I can pick the desiccator up and use inertia magic fairys to keep the scale on. The desiccator will be able to reach it's peak vacuum and then sit there. The vacuum the pump pulls is somewhere around 15 inches of Hg.

How about just putting a barometer inside?

How about both?

Correct me if I am wrong, but what should happen is this if gravity is true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale remains the same  or maybe goes up slightly.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

If denpressure if true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale goes down.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

Do we agree?

Yep but we also need to use two sets of scales. One digital and one manual. This is just to negate the battery influence of that scale.

It must also be done by clearly showing everything working as it should from start to finish.
Also it must be done with 3 separate objects of density. Wood, metal and plastic, for instance. Not necessarily that but something like that.

So this is likely a non-starter then.

Why? there is nothing in that, that is out of easy reach.
You have to agree that to test this out, it cannot be done on just one certain thing. It has to go through many tests to rubberstamp it one way or another.

I'm simply asking for two scales, one at a time and separate objects, one at a time. It's no more than half an hours experimenting in a small chamber.

I suggest you use your millions of dollars and repeat the experiment but with a mechanical scale to see if you get different results.

I do not have a mechanical scale. Batteries cannot effect gravity or denpressure.

A small shop bought scale is pennies.

Something like this would fit in no problem without the bowl even, just using the plate.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 11:06:35 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on November 27, 2014, 11:02:26 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 10:53:43 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on November 27, 2014, 10:32:50 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 10:25:02 AM

Quote from: sokarul on November 27, 2014, 10:21:22 AM

I am going to use a vacuum desiccator. The vacuum pump that it uses is not as strong and the vacuum gauge isn't right next to the desiccator. But, I can pick the desiccator up and use inertia magic fairys to keep the scale on. The desiccator will be able to reach it's peak vacuum and then sit there. The vacuum the pump pulls is somewhere around 15 inches of Hg.

How about just putting a barometer inside?

How about both?

Correct me if I am wrong, but what should happen is this if gravity is true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale remains the same  or maybe goes up slightly.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

If denpressure if true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale goes down.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

Do we agree?

Yep but we also need to use two sets of scales. One digital and one manual. This is just to negate the battery influence of that scale.

It must also be done by clearly showing everything working as it should from start to finish.
Also it must be done with 3 separate objects of density. Wood, metal and plastic, for instance. Not necessarily that but something like that.

So this is likely a non-starter then.

Why? there is nothing in that, that is out of easy reach.
You have to agree that to test this out, it cannot be done on just one certain thing. It has to go through many tests to rubberstamp it one way or another.

I'm simply asking for two scales, one at a time and separate objects, one at a time. It's no more than half an hours experimenting in a small chamber.

I suggest you use your millions of dollars and repeat the experiment but with a mechanical scale to see if you get different results.

I will. I suggest anyone with a vacuum chamber to perform similar experiments.

Quote from: Rama Set on November 27, 2014, 11:02:26 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 10:53:43 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on November 27, 2014, 10:32:50 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 10:25:02 AM

Quote from: sokarul on November 27, 2014, 10:21:22 AM

I am going to use a vacuum desiccator. The vacuum pump that it uses is not as strong and the vacuum gauge isn't right next to the desiccator. But, I can pick the desiccator up and use inertia magic fairys to keep the scale on. The desiccator will be able to reach it's peak vacuum and then sit there. The vacuum the pump pulls is somewhere around 15 inches of Hg.

How about just putting a barometer inside?

How about both?

Correct me if I am wrong, but what should happen is this if gravity is true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale remains the same  or maybe goes up slightly.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

If denpressure if true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale goes down.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

Do we agree?

Yep but we also need to use two sets of scales. One digital and one manual. This is just to negate the battery influence of that scale.

It must also be done by clearly showing everything working as it should from start to finish.
Also it must be done with 3 separate objects of density. Wood, metal and plastic, for instance. Not necessarily that but something like that.

So this is likely a non-starter then.

Why? there is nothing in that, that is out of easy reach.
You have to agree that to test this out, it cannot be done on just one certain thing. It has to go through many tests to rubberstamp it one way or another.

I'm simply asking for two scales, one at a time and separate objects, one at a time. It's no more than half an hours experimenting in a small chamber.

I only say that because it seemed as if time was at a premium for sokarul.  If he can do it, it would be great to see it done in every way you ask.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 11:06:35 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on November 27, 2014, 11:02:26 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 10:53:43 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on November 27, 2014, 10:32:50 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 10:25:02 AM

Quote from: sokarul on November 27, 2014, 10:21:22 AM

I am going to use a vacuum desiccator. The vacuum pump that it uses is not as strong and the vacuum gauge isn't right next to the desiccator. But, I can pick the desiccator up and use inertia magic fairys to keep the scale on. The desiccator will be able to reach it's peak vacuum and then sit there. The vacuum the pump pulls is somewhere around 15 inches of Hg.

How about just putting a barometer inside?

How about both?

Correct me if I am wrong, but what should happen is this if gravity is true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale remains the same  or maybe goes up slightly.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

If denpressure if true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale goes down.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

Do we agree?

Yep but we also need to use two sets of scales. One digital and one manual. This is just to negate the battery influence of that scale.

It must also be done by clearly showing everything working as it should from start to finish.
Also it must be done with 3 separate objects of density. Wood, metal and plastic, for instance. Not necessarily that but something like that.

So this is likely a non-starter then.

Why? there is nothing in that, that is out of easy reach.
You have to agree that to test this out, it cannot be done on just one certain thing. It has to go through many tests to rubberstamp it one way or another.

I'm simply asking for two scales, one at a time and separate objects, one at a time. It's no more than half an hours experimenting in a small chamber.

I only say that because it seemed as if time was at a premium for sokarul.  If he can do it, it would be great to see it done in every way you ask.

I think he's sneaking in at the weekend when his boss is playing golf, so he'll have plenty of time.

No, I'm stuck working tomorrow because my calcium oxide order was delayed. I can do the experiment with plastic and the metal calibration mass.
My boss wouldn't care if I was filming a desiccator. I just don't like looking weird. The air lock I used in the last video was not in my lab.

Every measurement of mass to weight is all down to atmospheric pressures, just take gravity out of the equation. It's not needed.
It's just a case of changing the names of the measuring tools to realistic names and not fantasy names. You know, like gravimeters and stuff.

LOL..... yet another dozen comments of absolutely absurd pseudo-scientific drivel.  Truly outstanding!  Just in the wrong sort of way LOL.

A measurement of "mass to weight"?  I've known all along that sceptimatic had no idea at all that mass and weight are two different things.  He can't seem to grasp that weight is a variable, whilst mass is a constant.  And that's because he doesn't understand how gravity works.

I do agree with him though that—for the purpose of his argument—it's "just a case of changing the names".  He does it repeatedly.

But tge he's unable to define the altered properties of the entity whose name he's changed.  He still hasn't defined the units of measure for his imaginary re-named gravity, "denpressure".  He reckons it's a "combination" of density and pressure, which is like saying "tempmoment" is a combination of temperature and momentum.  And would be just as silly.

To save the poor tool any further embarrassment, I suggest that the forum admin adds "denpressure" to their word blocker.   

No, I'm stuck working tomorrow because my calcium oxide order was delayed. I can do the experiment with plastic and the metal calibration mass.
My boss wouldn't care if I was filming a desiccator. I just don't like looking weird. The air lock I used in the last video was not in my lab.

Ok, fair enough, just try your best with whatever you can muster up.

Ok, fair enough, just try your best with whatever you can muster up.

LOL..... such generosity from somebody who's never done one experiment of his own and/or posted the results on these forums. It always makes me laugh whenever I see sceptimatic virtually demanding that every round earther carries out his/her own experiments to prove a point, but then never does any of his own to prove his point.

Not only is the guy a total troll, he's also a lazy troll.   

I will. I suggest anyone with a vacuum chamber to perform similar experiments.

   We look forward to pictures and/or video of your experiment.  Can we expect results in the near future?

Can we expect results in the near future?

LOL..... you'll have a looong grey beard before you ever get to see the results of any of sceptimatic's purported "research".

Remember his rough sketch for his flat earth map from earlier this year?  The one that he was gonna work on, and "soon" develop a more sophisticated version to post here?  Never happened.

Remember his expensive scientific experiment with the specially-adapted laser and the 2km flat ice field?  Never happened.

The guy is so full of BS I'm surprised he can talk without gargling.   

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 11:06:35 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on November 27, 2014, 11:02:26 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 10:53:43 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on November 27, 2014, 10:32:50 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 10:25:02 AM

Quote from: sokarul on November 27, 2014, 10:21:22 AM

I am going to use a vacuum desiccator. The vacuum pump that it uses is not as strong and the vacuum gauge isn't right next to the desiccator. But, I can pick the desiccator up and use inertia magic fairys to keep the scale on. The desiccator will be able to reach it's peak vacuum and then sit there. The vacuum the pump pulls is somewhere around 15 inches of Hg.

How about just putting a barometer inside?

How about both?

Correct me if I am wrong, but what should happen is this if gravity is true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale remains the same  or maybe goes up slightly.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

If denpressure if true:

• Air is evacuated.
• Mass/weight of object on scale goes down.
• Barometric pressure goes down. (optional if Sokarul can swing it)

Do we agree?

Yep but we also need to use two sets of scales. One digital and one manual. This is just to negate the battery influence of that scale.

It must also be done by clearly showing everything working as it should from start to finish.
Also it must be done with 3 separate objects of density. Wood, metal and plastic, for instance. Not necessarily that but something like that.

So this is likely a non-starter then.

Why? there is nothing in that, that is out of easy reach.
You have to agree that to test this out, it cannot be done on just one certain thing. It has to go through many tests to rubberstamp it one way or another.

I'm simply asking for two scales, one at a time and separate objects, one at a time. It's no more than half an hours experimenting in a small chamber.

I suggest you use your millions of dollars and repeat the experiment but with a mechanical scale to see if you get different results.

This the first good suggestion I have seen frim Sokarul

Also it must be done with 3 separate objects of density. Wood, metal and plastic, for instance.

This request alone proves that sceptimatic has virtually zero scientific knowledge in that tiny brain of his. And that's being polite LOL.  It's obvious he still has not the faintest of ideas about the properties of density or pressure or force, or mass or weight or volume.  To make matters worse, he seems to think that the battery in the digital scale will somehow, magically "influence" the results.

The guy gets more laughs than Bozo the clown.   

You can do all the tests. Just do what you've always done. It's the same thing.
Every measurement of mass to weight is all down to atmospheric pressures, just take gravity out of the equation. It's not needed.
It's just a case of chaging the names of the measuring tools to realistic names and not fantasy names. You know, like gravimeters and stuff.

I'm sorry, but I don't know of any mass to weight formulas that involve pressure, so I don't know how to make the substitution.  That's why I keep asking you for the formula.

I dont know why doesnt anyone call on the bs that scepti execrates. You all seem to be falling for the typical weight/mass trolling he likes to use.

The truth is, rockets can work, independently of the prescence of measurable gravitatorial pull or gasseous countermass (atmosphere, for example), thanks to momentum. As http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsiolkovsky_rocket_equation explains, rockets gain a deltaV based on the speed that fuel particles are expelled. This equation can be derived from Newton's laws and momentum. If scepti doesnt believe on momentum, I dare him to explain how Newton's cradle works BETTER at a vacuum:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/s4a30SDYSes

PS: Where's the youtube tag? I cant embed the player

Just had a thought.

Even if we were to humor scepti and say, "sure denpressure is what causes or is mistaken to be called gravity", does this have any effect on the earths shape? Could the earth not be round even if denpressure were real?

So many threads devoted to a theory that does not even suggest anything about the earths shape, even if it were true.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 27, 2014, 11:18:37 AM

I will. I suggest anyone with a vacuum chamber to perform similar experiments.

   We look forward to pictures and/or video of your experiment.  Can we expect results in the near future?

Let's wait and see. You can also do the experiments. You never know, they just might alter things.

Just had a thought.

Even if we were to humor scepti and say, "sure denpressure is what causes or is mistaken to be called gravity", does this have any effect on the earths shape? Could the earth not be round even if denpressure were real?

So many threads devoted to a theory that does not even suggest anything about the earths shape, even if it were true.

Well denpressure sort of kills off space as a whole, doesn't it?
You see, the made up gravity has to be responsible for stopping the globe falling into the big fire in space.
It also has to keep fantasy space craft in space. You need gravity or another similar made up concept to keep the globe intact. Denpressure kills it.