Satellites and the Internet ?

Sending texts and pictures over radio freqs back in the early 90s is not relevant to sending internet data now?

Quote from: markjo on October 28, 2014, 09:37:31 AM

Quote from: jroa on October 28, 2014, 09:28:32 AM

Quote from: markjo on October 28, 2014, 09:21:56 AM

Quote from: jroa on October 28, 2014, 08:23:59 AM

I was sending text, back in the early 90s, over sincgars radio.  Also talking over the sincgars freqes.  But, this thread is about data.

At what baud rate were you transmitting this data?  2400 baud?  4800 baud?

You do realize that frequency hopping uses many different baud rates, right?

No, I don't realize that.  Please explain.  Or are you confusing baud rate with frequency?

Maybe you do not realize that baud rate is the frequency of data?  Also, frequency hopping uses many different frequencies.

Since it uses VINSON encryption, it's probably 17 kbps. If you were frequency hopping, I'm really surprised you could get a usable OTH circuit. SINCGARS can hop or use a single frequency. Are you sure you weren't using the latter?

And markjo has a point. The transmission frequency is independent of the data rate, except that lower frequencies can only support narrower bandwidth, which limits the maximum data rate.

Sending texts and pictures over radio freqs back in the early 90s is not relevant to sending internet data now?

Dig up an old 28 kbps dial-up modem and see how well that works.

Quote from: markjo on October 28, 2014, 09:37:31 AM

Quote from: jroa on October 28, 2014, 09:28:32 AM

Quote from: markjo on October 28, 2014, 09:21:56 AM

Quote from: jroa on October 28, 2014, 08:23:59 AM

I was sending text, back in the early 90s, over sincgars radio.  Also talking over the sincgars freqes.  But, this thread is about data.

At what baud rate were you transmitting this data?  2400 baud?  4800 baud?

You do realize that frequency hopping uses many different baud rates, right?

No, I don't realize that.  Please explain.  Or are you confusing baud rate with frequency?

Maybe you do not realize that baud rate is the frequency of data?  Also, frequency hopping uses many different frequencies.

Yes, baud rate is roughly equivalent to the frequency of the data, but it is not the frequency of the carrier signal.  Frequency hopping uses many different carrier frequencies, but not necessarily different data rates.

Sending texts and pictures over radio freqs back in the early 90s is not relevant to sending internet data now?

That's right - it is not relevant.   Or about as relevant as flag semaphore.

The technology you are referring to cannot provide 5 Mbps downstream and 1 Mbps upstream to several hundred people at once.  It cannot stream video.  These are the capabilities of the system we are referring to.

It is simply impossible to provide these capabilities over HF, so you need to try again.

I did actually think you would go with your usual network of invisible buoys - which is how you have tried to explain GPS capability over oceans.  At least they are theoretically capable, unlike HF.

I did actually think you would go with your usual network of invisible buoys - which is how you have tried to explain GPS capability over oceans.  At least they are theoretically capable, unlike HF.

Nah.  Since the antennas are most likely on the upper surfaces of the airliner, stratellites would be a better explanation.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on October 28, 2014, 10:06:47 AM

I did actually think you would go with your usual network of invisible buoys - which is how you have tried to explain GPS capability over oceans.  At least they are theoretically capable, unlike HF.

Nah.  Since the antennas are most likely on the upper surfaces of the airliner, stratellites would be a better explanation.

True, but you could say that the antenna on the upper surface is a pretend one fitted by the Conspiracy, whilst the real antenna is below, pointing at the invisible buoy network.

Quote from: jroa on October 28, 2014, 07:28:59 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on October 28, 2014, 07:17:33 AM

Quote from: jroa on October 28, 2014, 05:39:30 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on October 27, 2014, 04:04:58 PM

Answer me this: how did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?  I'm curious to see how you think this works without a satellite uplink.

How were the pilots communicating with ground stations over the Atlantic?

Try not answering my question with another question.  Let me try again:

How did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?

You do realize that data can be sent via traditional radio signals, right?

lol

There was an entire plane full of people on the web - you could even stream video.  On the flight I used you got 5 Mbps download and 1 Mbps upstream.  Are you seriously they are using HF for this

Sounds like an internet café up there. I've been doing some research and turned up the following:

http://gogoair.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=20295&item=122392

Jun 18, 2012

ITASCA, IL/Betzdorf, Luxembourg – June 18, 2012 – Gogo, a leader in in-flight connectivity, and global satellite operator SES (Euronext Paris and Luxembourg Stock Exchange: SESG) today announced they have signed a strategic memorandum of understanding with the goal of bringing high-speed, satellite-delivered Internet access to passengers aboard commercial airliners. Gogo, a pioneer in wireless in-flight digital entertainment solutions, plans to utilize high-throughput Ku-band capacity on current and future SES multi-beam satellites serving the continental United States, the Atlantic Ocean Region and Europe.

SES operates a worldwide fleet of 50 geostationary satellites. “By partnering with SES, Gogo aims to provide the reliable and seamless satellite coverage our current and prospective airline partners must have to meet airline passengers’ demands for high-quality, high-speed Internet access on the fly,” said Gogo president and CEO Michael Small. “With the addition of a trusted satellite operator and Ku-band connectivity solution, Gogo is well positioned to provide a broad range of airlines and aircraft with a variety of technology solutions. Whether it’s Gogo’s exclusive air to ground and ATG-4 technologies, SES’s Ku-band satellites or, Inmarsat’s Global Xpress Ka-band satellite technologies, we plan to offer a full range of connectivity solutions for any aircraft mission.”

“Like Gogo, SES is dedicated to connectivity without boundaries. This groundbreaking alliance between SES and Gogo represents an exciting milestone for commercial airlines and their passengers, who expect the same high-speed Internet access they’re accustomed to on land during their flights,” explained Ferdinand Kayser, Chief Commercial Officer for SES. “SES is looking forward to bringing the best satellites and expertise in the business to what promises to be an important advancement in regional and global airline travel.”

Gogo expects to use this technology to offer airlines connectivity services on international fleets flying transatlantic routes, as well as regional fleets flying within Europe and the United States. Gogo is actively working with SES and other operators to expand that coverage globally.

Gogo also recently announced that it will partner with AeroSat to deliver the satellite antenna, radome, antenna control and modem unit and high power transceiver to Gogo. The AeroSat equipment will be coupled with Gogo’s onboard hardware and software (server and access points) to deliver a complete solution to the airlines. The components have already been developed and are currently going through the airworthiness qualification and certification process. Gogo expects to be able to install the Ku-band systems on commercial aircraft as early as the fourth quarter of 2012.

I looked up Aerosat (http://www.aerosat.com/):

Here is their News section today (28/10/2014):

AeroSat is continually breaking new ground, developing new airborne SATCOM products and advancing the industry. This is the latest.

In The News
6/18/12
AeroSat to Provide Airborne Satcom Systems to Gogo
5/18/12
Gogo Partners with AeroSat to Bring Ku-Satellite Service to Market

10/28/11
AeroSat Corporation Names New CEO


Press Releases

6/17/12
AeroSat to provide Airborne Satcom systems to Gogo.

10/28/11
AeroSat Corporation Names New CEO

Strange, I think for a company that is "continually breaking new ground." I visit their Products page and find only one product, the HR6400 Antenna System:

http://www.aerosat.com/products/products_ku_aircraft_antenna.asp

Very strange. A company that only sells one product! I visited their "Certificates and Capabilities List" page (http://www.aerosat.com/products/products_certificates.asp). They have a certificate relating to Quality Management Systems ISO9001:2000 initially issued in 2008 and expired in 2010!

http://www.aerosat.com/@ssets/pdf/2982cNewLogo%5B5%5D.pdf

There is something very fishy here, people.

Gogo also recently announced that it will partner with AeroSat to deliver the satellite antenna, radome, antenna control and modem unit and high power transceiver to Gogo. The AeroSat equipment will be coupled with Gogo’s onboard hardware and software (server and access points) to deliver a complete solution to the airlines. The components have already been developed and are currently going through the airworthiness qualification and certification process. Gogo expects to be able to install the Ku-band systems on commercial aircraft as early as the fourth quarter of 2012.[/i]

I looked up Aerosat (http://www.aerosat.com/):

Strange, I think for a company that is "continually breaking new ground." I visit their Products page and find only one product, the HR6400 Antenna System:

http://www.aerosat.com/products/products_ku_aircraft_antenna.asp

Very strange. A company that only sells one product! I visited their "Certificates and Capabilities List" page (http://www.aerosat.com/products/products_certificates.asp). They have a certificate relating to Quality Management Systems ISO9001:2000 initially issued in 2008 and expired in 2010!

There is something very fishy here, people.

A manufacturer of airborne SATCOM antennas only lists airborne SATCOM antennas on their website. Wow! That is strange! 

Worse, that site has obsolete links!!

Quote from: legion on October 28, 2014, 01:55:49 PM

Gogo also recently announced that it will partner with AeroSat to deliver the satellite antenna, radome, antenna control and modem unit and high power transceiver to Gogo. The AeroSat equipment will be coupled with Gogo’s onboard hardware and software (server and access points) to deliver a complete solution to the airlines. The components have already been developed and are currently going through the airworthiness qualification and certification process. Gogo expects to be able to install the Ku-band systems on commercial aircraft as early as the fourth quarter of 2012.[/i]

I looked up Aerosat (http://www.aerosat.com/):

Strange, I think for a company that is "continually breaking new ground." I visit their Products page and find only one product, the HR6400 Antenna System:

http://www.aerosat.com/products/products_ku_aircraft_antenna.asp

Very strange. A company that only sells one product! I visited their "Certificates and Capabilities List" page (http://www.aerosat.com/products/products_certificates.asp). They have a certificate relating to Quality Management Systems ISO9001:2000 initially issued in 2008 and expired in 2010!

There is something very fishy here, people.

A manufacturer of airborne SATCOM antennas only lists airborne SATCOM antennas on their website. Wow! That is strange! 

Worse, that site has obsolete links!!

No surprise that you missed the point. Next.

Yet we know satellite communication works and is used by many people every day.

Aerosat was purchased by Astronics in 2013. A publicly traded under ATRO on Nasdaq. The web of conspiracies is thick!

Strange, I think for a company that is "continually breaking new ground." I visit their Products page and find only one product, the HR6400 Antenna System...

Very strange. A company that only sells one product!

There is something very fishy here, people.

The only thing allegedly "fishy" here is that you haven't researched this at all well LOL.

"Our product line includes four SATCOM antenna systems. Our newest product is a Fuselage Broadband Internet Antenna System that enables commercial airliners to receive true high-speed broadband Internet service. These Ku-band aircraft antennas are currently being implemented by several major airlines. In addition, we offer a Fuselage-Mounted aircraft television antenna, a Tail-Mounted aircraft television antenna and a TV/Internet Tail-Mounted Antenna".

In your estimation, how many products would make them a supposedly legitimate organisation?  Forty?  400 maybe?

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of time that flat earthers spend (waste?) repeatedly trying to disprove round earth technologies, mechanics and science—rather than spending a lot more time in attempting to prove their own flat earth hypotheses.

Although I guess it's far easier to attack existing theories that've been proven to work, rather than come up with your own new but different theories that work better. 

If it wasn't for science, the flat earthers would probably still accept the existence of phlogiston.   

@legion, I notice you carefully avoid my question:

How did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?


I'm really not sure why you copy-pasted those news items from 2012?  The airline I flew with don't even use Aerosat kit - they bought their system from Panasonic.

How did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?

Perhaps with radio signals?  What is confusing about this? 

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on October 29, 2014, 02:32:23 AM

How did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?

Perhaps with radio signals?  What is confusing about this?

Radio signals from satellites.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on October 29, 2014, 02:32:23 AM

How did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?

Perhaps with radio signals?

Of course, from a satellite.  I'm glad we are agreement again.

What is confusing about this? 

Well, nothing really.  Which bit are you having a problem with?

When you listen to your radio, use a mobile phone or watch TV, you are using a device that receives radio waves.

Radio waves are a form of electromagnetic radiation, just like the visible light you see with your eyes.

The difference is that radio waves have a longer wavelength and are lower in frequency than visible light.

They also very wimpy - they have far less energy. Any electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength bigger than 1mm is considered a radio wave. ]  Credit: NASA



WW2... Side view of a radioman carrying the SCR-300 radio set with the AN-130-A antenna. He wears the HS-30 headset under his helmet and the TS-15 handset

The satellite story we use, is just so' we can have a good laugh....

@legion, I notice you carefully avoid my question:

How did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?


I'm really not sure why you copy-pasted those news items from 2012?  The airline I flew with don't even use Aerosat kit - they bought their system from Panasonic.

I believe I asked you some questions which you also ignored.

Aerosat was purchased by Astronics in 2013. A publicly traded under ATRO on Nasdaq. The web of conspiracies is thick!

And the Astronics website sends you straight back to Aerosat when you click on 'Antenna Systems'.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on October 29, 2014, 02:32:23 AM

@legion, I notice you carefully avoid my question:

How did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?


I'm really not sure why you copy-pasted those news items from 2012?  The airline I flew with don't even use Aerosat kit - they bought their system from Panasonic.

I believe I asked you some questions which you also ignored.

They must have been lost in your copy-pasta.  If you ask me them clearly, I'm happy to answer.  First of all, have a crack at:

How did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?

Quote from: legion on October 29, 2014, 10:27:03 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on October 29, 2014, 02:32:23 AM

@legion, I notice you carefully avoid my question:

How did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?


I'm really not sure why you copy-pasted those news items from 2012?  The airline I flew with don't even use Aerosat kit - they bought their system from Panasonic.

I believe I asked you some questions which you also ignored.

They must have been lost in your copy-pasta.  If you ask me them clearly, I'm happy to answer.  First of all, have a crack at:

How did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?

By using radio waves. Radio waves that were sent from the plane you were on, to the ground. Your reply was also sent from the ground. See below to educate yourself (http://info.yachtcom.co.uk/HF/index.php):

Marine HF radio

High Frequency (HF) radio works on frequencies between 3 MHz to 30 MHz which lies between medium-wave (MF) and VHF radio. HF radio waves can refract (bend) of the ionosphere giving coverage over hundreds or even thousands of miles and therefore ideal for long distance communications.
Icom M801E
Marine SSB (Single Side Band) or HF (High Frequency) is a popular means of communication for the independent cruising yachtsmen and a must if you are planning to do bluewater cruising to the Caribbean, Pacific or Mediterranean.

The range of SSB is upto several thousand miles and calls between yachts are free.
In most parts of the world you can communicate with the coastguard up to several hundred miles off-shore.

Global weather can be received via fax and data and you can send and receive email.
Having an SSB transceiver on board offers security, entertainment and general communications while at sea.

If you want the capability of being able to transmit on all marine frequencies which include MF/HF/VHF and Inmarsat satellite from a yacht then you need a GMDSS Long Range Certificate (GMDSS LRC)

http://hamradio.arc.nasa.gov/meetings/HFradioatsea.html:

 Modes of Marine Radio Communication

Picture of commercial VHF marine radio, a cellphone, and amateur HF band radio.

    VHF marine radio
        No license needed
        10-20 mile range

    Cellphone
        10-20 mile(?) range

    Single Sideband (SSB) radio
        1.8 to 30 mHz ("High Frequency" or "HF")
        10,000 mile range

    Satellite
        Available, but expensive and/or limited


Case closed.

Next you try to avoid explaining how satellite TV works receiving hundreds of channels.  Think bandwidth required.

Next you try to avoid explaining how satellite TV works receiving hundreds of channels.  Think bandwidth required.

Why don't you try to stay on topic? Start a new thread for a new topic.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on October 29, 2014, 10:44:11 AM

Quote from: legion on October 29, 2014, 10:27:03 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on October 29, 2014, 02:32:23 AM

@legion, I notice you carefully avoid my question:

How did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?


I'm really not sure why you copy-pasted those news items from 2012?  The airline I flew with don't even use Aerosat kit - they bought their system from Panasonic.

I believe I asked you some questions which you also ignored.

They must have been lost in your copy-pasta.  If you ask me them clearly, I'm happy to answer.  First of all, have a crack at:

How did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?

By using radio waves. Radio waves that were sent from the plane you were on, to the ground. Your reply was also sent from the ground. See below to educate yourself (http://info.yachtcom.co.uk/HF/index.php):

Marine HF radio

High Frequency (HF) radio works on frequencies between 3 MHz to 30 MHz which lies between medium-wave (MF) and VHF radio. HF radio waves can refract (bend) of the ionosphere giving coverage over hundreds or even thousands of miles and therefore ideal for long distance communications.
Icom M801E
Marine SSB (Single Side Band) or HF (High Frequency) is a popular means of communication for the independent cruising yachtsmen and a must if you are planning to do bluewater cruising to the Caribbean, Pacific or Mediterranean.

The range of SSB is upto several thousand miles and calls between yachts are free.
In most parts of the world you can communicate with the coastguard up to several hundred miles off-shore.

Global weather can be received via fax and data and you can send and receive email.
Having an SSB transceiver on board offers security, entertainment and general communications while at sea.

If you want the capability of being able to transmit on all marine frequencies which include MF/HF/VHF and Inmarsat satellite from a yacht then you need a GMDSS Long Range Certificate (GMDSS LRC)

http://hamradio.arc.nasa.gov/meetings/HFradioatsea.html:

 Modes of Marine Radio Communication

Picture of commercial VHF marine radio, a cellphone, and amateur HF band radio.

    VHF marine radio
        No license needed
        10-20 mile range

    Cellphone
        10-20 mile(?) range

    Single Sideband (SSB) radio
        1.8 to 30 mHz ("High Frequency" or "HF")
        10,000 mile range

    Satellite
        Available, but expensive and/or limited


Case closed.

Yep, I think that pretty much puts that to bed. Nice one.

Yep, I think that pretty much puts that to bed. Nice one.

Cheers buddy. I find it amazing that people are fine with accepting that we have thousands of satellites orbiting around, but we can't send radio signals reliably by terrestrial means. Even though we do. Daily.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 29, 2014, 11:13:59 AM

Yep, I think that pretty much puts that to bed. Nice one.

Cheers buddy. I find it amazing that people are fine with accepting that we have thousands of satellites orbiting around, but we can't send radio signals reliably by terrestrial means. Even though we do. Daily.

I know. It shocks me at times, especially with these people who appear to know a little biit about stuff and are quite intelligent for the most part.

I would expect people who have never took any notice of any of this stuff to simply go along with what they're told to and do it as per norm, even calling people like us, nutters for trying to tell them a lot of it is bullshit, because they simply follow a pattern of mass indoctrination.

These people on here can't see fakery smashing them in the face with a wet fish in winter?....I can't buy that...not for the amount that reject what should be as clear as day.

The only reason I can think of as to why some (the frenzied ones) of them reject it all is, they are either paid to do it or they do see it's bullshit but desperately hang onto it because they are afraid of being labelled a fruit and nut case.

Quote from: legion on October 29, 2014, 11:50:06 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 29, 2014, 11:13:59 AM

Yep, I think that pretty much puts that to bed. Nice one.

Cheers buddy. I find it amazing that people are fine with accepting that we have thousands of satellites orbiting around, but we can't send radio signals reliably by terrestrial means. Even though we do. Daily.

I know. It shocks me at times, especially with these people who appear to know a little biit about stuff and are quite intelligent for the most part.

I would expect people who have never took any notice of any of this stuff to simply go along with what they're told to and do it as per norm, even calling people like us, nutters for trying to tell them a lot of it is bullshit, because they simply follow a pattern of mass indoctrination.

These people on here can't see fakery smashing them in the face with a wet fish in winter?....I can't buy that...not for the amount that reject what should be as clear as day.

The only reason I can think of as to why some (the frenzied ones) of them reject it all is, they are either paid to do it or they do see it's bullshit but desperately hang onto it because they are afraid of being labelled a fruit and nut case.

...Or you are absolutely batshit insane and have trouble dealing with rational human beings?

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on October 29, 2014, 10:44:11 AM

Quote from: legion on October 29, 2014, 10:27:03 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on October 29, 2014, 02:32:23 AM

@legion, I notice you carefully avoid my question:

How did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?


I'm really not sure why you copy-pasted those news items from 2012?  The airline I flew with don't even use Aerosat kit - they bought their system from Panasonic.

I believe I asked you some questions which you also ignored.

They must have been lost in your copy-pasta.  If you ask me them clearly, I'm happy to answer.  First of all, have a crack at:

How did I receive broadband internet over the Atlantic?

By using radio waves. Radio waves that were sent from the plane you were on, to the ground. Your reply was also sent from the ground. See below to educate yourself

*snip copy pasta*

We've been over all this - read the thread.  I, along with hundreds of others on the plane, had a 5 Mbps internet connection - I was streaming video.  This is physically impossible with HF radio.

Try again.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 29, 2014, 12:09:49 PM

Quote from: legion on October 29, 2014, 11:50:06 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 29, 2014, 11:13:59 AM

Yep, I think that pretty much puts that to bed. Nice one.

Cheers buddy. I find it amazing that people are fine with accepting that we have thousands of satellites orbiting around, but we can't send radio signals reliably by terrestrial means. Even though we do. Daily.

I know. It shocks me at times, especially with these people who appear to know a little biit about stuff and are quite intelligent for the most part.

I would expect people who have never took any notice of any of this stuff to simply go along with what they're told to and do it as per norm, even calling people like us, nutters for trying to tell them a lot of it is bullshit, because they simply follow a pattern of mass indoctrination.

These people on here can't see fakery smashing them in the face with a wet fish in winter?....I can't buy that...not for the amount that reject what should be as clear as day.

The only reason I can think of as to why some (the frenzied ones) of them reject it all is, they are either paid to do it or they do see it's bullshit but desperately hang onto it because they are afraid of being labelled a fruit and nut case.

...Or you are absolutely batshit insane and have trouble dealing with rational human beings?

I'm fine dealing with rational human beings. You do not fit that bill.