Earth shadows show a small Sun and concave Earth.

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on September 09, 2014, 05:53:49 AM

Quote from: sokarul on September 08, 2014, 10:00:16 PM

As Earth's rotating if we really have side-real days of 23h 56m compared to 24h then bearing angle should always be gaining 1 degree per day or 361 degrees meaning mid-day should become mid-night after 182 days or am I completely wrong in thinking what I'm thinking in this image?

As far as what stars we can see at night, that's exactly what happens.  This is the reason we see one set of constellations at midnight in winter and a different set at midnight half a year later.  The stars that are up at midnight in winter are in the same position at noon in summer and vice-versa.

Simple.

I know but because stars are considered to be very far away rotation about the Sun would be considered irrelevant to the bearing angle which means you have a dilemma, because we should be facing 180 degrees away from the stars every 182 solar days exactly like this image demonstrates:

You do know that the daytime side of the earth is the side facing the sun, don't you?  Your drawing is confused and seems to indicate different. Is the orange circle near the center the sun? What do the green and blue halves of the other circles (earth?) represent, and the light and dark blue?  Why are the east and west arrows reversed between top and the bottom?

"facing 180 degrees away from the stars" is meaningless; since stars are scattered in all directions around us, we can't be facing away from "the" stars. We're always facing away from some of them, but facing toward others; which ones depends on the local sidereal time and our latitude. And, yes, they are so far away that the motion of the earth around the sun makes no difference (unless very carefully measured, and even then only for the nearest stars). No dilemma.

Here's a better diagram:

The plane of the diagram is the plane of the earth's orbit around the sun (the ecliptic) viewed from the north side of the ecliptic. Note that the rotation arrows are all going the same way (counterclockwise), and the darker shaded half of earth represents the night side and is always away from the sun.

On the the March Equinox: the constellation Virgo (in the direction of the top of the diagram) is at its highest (culminates) at midnight; Sagittarius (left side) is rising at midnight and at its highest as the sun rises; Gemini (right side)  is at its highest as the sun sets and sets at midnight. Pisces (bottom) cant be seen at this time of year because the sun appears to be in it.

On the June Solstice: Sagittarius culminates at midnight, Pisces is rising at midnight and culminates about sunrise, Virgo culminates around sunset and sets at midnight, and Gemini is behind the sun.

On the September equinox, Pisces culminates at midnight, Gemini rises at midnight and culminates around sunrise, Sagittarius is culminating at sunset and sets at midnight, Virgo is behind the sun.

The December Solstice is the opposite of the June Solstice: Gemini is highest at midnight, Virgo rises around midnight and culminates at dawn, Pisces is culminating in the evening and setting around midnight.  Sagittarius is hidden in the glare of the sun.

Throughout the year, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. This is nothing new; all this was worked out centuries ago.

However we see none of the above,

mid-day would become midnight in 182 24 hour days

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on September 09, 2014, 02:59:47 PM

Orange circle represents the Sun yes and I know it's not to scale but it just there to give you an idea of it's relative positioning. Blue and green represent land and air with blue being a view of the sky with someone viewpoint from somewhere around 20-40 degrees North looking North and green being the ground. Light blue is daytime and dark blue is nighttime.

None of these illustrations are to scale; you wouldn't be able to see anything if they were.

I see now what you were trying to show with the blue/green objects. I thought they represented the planet in some way, but they're actually someone's view in the direction of the longer arrow toward or away from the sun; I had wondered what those arrows represented.

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You illustration is good at describing the heliocentric system as that has always been the way it's been represented to me at school and otherwise and I do understand how the model works but the problem is over 182 solar days you should see a 180 degree rotation of Earth from East to West this would mean mid-day would become midnight in 182 24 hour days however also because now your rotated away from the Sun your counter-clockwise motion now becomes visually flipped to clockwise. This is because for example when you stand and put out your right hand for a handshake someone will also put out their right hand for a handshake. This is because you have to face opposite directions for East (left) and West (right) when facing outward North (or North-West or North-East). So because you are now facing the Sun backwards your apparent East and West directions would be flipped. The illustration you posted lacks perspective on this.

You don't seem to understand how it works, though.

The 180-degree rotation in half a year is clearly illustrated. The sunlit half of earth has rotated by just under 1 degree per day from, say, the bottom of the globe at the March Equinox in the illustration to the top of the globe at the September Equinox half a year later. There's no "flip".

Let's say you could stand in the same spot, mid-northern latitude, facing south, all day every day for a full year. Each morning you'd see the sun rise to your left (east), arc upward in a clockwise direction culminating in front of you (south) around local noon, then set to your right (west). Every day all year the sun follows the same left-to-right clockwise motion across the sky. If, for some reason, you turned around and faced north, then the sun would appear to your right (still east, though) at dawn and set to your left (west), but, remember, it was you - not the earth - that turned around.

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To calculate your current mean position North (or South) just take your daytime add 12 hours to get 0 degrees then for every 4 minutes greater or less then this add or minus 1 degree. (today I was about 27 degrees North average in respect to the Suns median.) So if you have a North perspective you should see the Sun day change from East to West to West to East if your days get shorter then 12 hours this would be because your average angle from the Sun would be under the Sun if your angle is less then 12 hours. Ironically if Earth was tilted at 23.5 degrees this means your angle would vary by a fixed 11.75 degrees from day to night meaning you would subtract this in Northern daytime and add it in Northern nighttime. Opposite for South facing North bearing this actually means you could be 47 minute more and observe this in the middle of the daytime so on a day with 12:23 hours long daylight you should actually witness the Sun go East to West for 3 hours 14 minutes then 6 hours 19 minutes West to East the back to East to West for 3 hours 14 minutes.

This may be where you're confusing yourself.  The sun's declination (equivalent to latitude in the celestial coordinate system) doesn't change much from day to day, but does vary from +23.5 degrees to -23.5 degrees or vice-versa in the half year from solstice to solstice, crossing 0 degrees declination (the celestial equator, which is a projection of earth's equator on the sky) on the equinoxes. The earth's rotation does not suddenly reverse when the sun crosses the equator - why would it? Our hypothetical dude or dudette standing at mid-northern latitude facing south would simply see the sun move from slightly north of the equator to slightly south of it on the day of the equinox in September and daylight gets slightly shorter than 12 hours. Nothing else changes.

Now, say we had another hypothetical observer right on the equator and told him or her to stand out there all year, but face north when the sun was north of them (March Equinox until September Equinox) and face south when the sun is south of them (Sept to Mar Equinoxes), turning around at the moment of the equinox, so the sun crosses the sky in front of them all year. To this observer, the sun rises to his right (east) and crosses his field of view counterclockwise in the northern spring and summer, but, once (s)he has turned around for the southern spring and summer, it rises to his left (still east, though) and crosses his field of view clockwise because (s)he turned around. The earth doesn't care, though; it's still spinning the same direction, toward the east, and the sun rises in the east and sets in the west the whole time.

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However we see none of the above, we never see the Sun retrograde even when our physical bearing changes so that it's line across the sky should change from apparent counter-clockwise (E to W) and apparent clockwise (W to E).

We're not seeing this because it doesn't work the way you think it should. Objects to our south move clockwise across the sky as we face them. Objects to our north move counterclockwise as we face them. We had to turn around with respect to the earth and the stars to face them, though.

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So to me that's pretty much proof that the Earth doesn't spin around nor orbit the Sun but some people will still say I simply don't understand the orbits because what I am saying sounds so strange but it's no more strange then your right or left hand, equal yet opposite when facing 180 degrees in the different direction. Both geocentrism and heliocentrism are dis-proven with this fact so all that remains is flat and concave Earth theories.

I agree with the first statement in bold if you change "some" to "virtually all". Count me among them.

For the second bolded statement, it sounds strange because, well, it is strange and just plain wrong. If you turn 180 degrees - face south instead of north, say, or east instead of west - of course the direction to your right will change. But standing at the same spot without moving on the spinning, orbiting earth won't cause this.  Only if you turn with respect to the earth will this happen.

Your "proof" is invalid because the hypothesis it's based on - the sun's apparent motion across the sky should suddenly change direction at the equinoxes - is wrong.

I'm just saying that the apparent direction will shift because even if you have an object rotate counter-clockwise and keep this direction of rotation but shift 180 degrees (East to West) then counter-clockwise movement will appear to be clockwise movement when viewed from the same point reference frame as before the shift so apparent East should change to apparent West.

East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet.

It's not about the actual direction of Earth's rotation changing that would give you the shift. And you don't even need to flip the poles from North to South the North pole actually remains North and the South pole remains South. This image should simplify what I'm saying. (Remember East direction stays East in both North and South hemispheres and West stays West in both North and South hemispheres they are always the same, never opposite sides)

This image is a little more detailed: I was talking about reference frames from Earth's alledged rotation around the Sun in respect to the Sun and Stars.

I think I was just confusing my reference frames. I will have to look at it some more to know exactly what I was talking about earlier. Let's just say some day's I am uh more sane then others, but here is a cheat-sheet if I uh retrograde lol. I will post more about whatever I was talking about if I remember...

You're making this way harder than it actually is.

Quote from: Alpha2Omega on September 12, 2014, 09:32:11 AM

You're making this way harder than it actually is.

Maybe but now I have a new problem that seemingly shows Earth concave when calculating AU from Jupiter's Moons from Simulation software:

(From This GooglePlus channel here on Sep 10th, 2014 (if you look at this post in the future): https://plus.google.com/u/0/103461383283161976782/posts look for his post about " You might like to know that I managed to get a confession out of +Sculelos, regarding the fact that they simply used software which employs calculations based on the non-geocentric model" (Which is correct as I was actually using a Celestial sphere model (with the heavens inside the earth aka Concave Earth theory based))

I actually was using a celestial sphere based model to calculate Jupiter's Jovian moons. Concave Earth uses a celestial sphere, but besides that huge point I ran into problems when using a heliocentric simulation, let me explain.

The simulation was ran by what angle we see Jupiter from North America Mountain Daylight Time so rotation and orbit of Earth literally doesn't matter.

Jupiter only moves about 8.31% of one degree in respect to the background stars every-day so every 12 days and 48 minutes it moves 1 degree West in the Sky.

Right now Jupiter would be in the roughly 8:36 pm position when Earth is in the 12:00 am position. So they are about 42.35 degrees apart.

Jupiter's Moons in comparison would be around 6 degrees each from Jupiter in comparison this means Jupiter should be around 7 AU.

In heliocentric theory this should be around 4.65 AU if we take Jupiter's average of 5.2 AU in demonstration and subtract 42 degrees.

Then the question becomes why does heliocentric theory predict 4.65 AU when in reality we get 7 AU? Let's check this out with concave model: In concave model Earth is the edge of the entire universe and wraps in on itself. Thus we get a Sun that is 1 AU away from us. Jupiter being -42 degrees from Earth would mean it's 138 degrees from the Sun. 138 degrees is 1.5333% of 4.65 AU so we get about 7.13 AU according to the concave model where as the geocentric and heliocentric models both predict 4.65 AU. Flat Earth theory the whole Earth plane would be 90 degrees even so the Sun would only be 34.5 degrees of this plane which would translate to 4 AU. So it seems like Heliocentrism and Geocentrism both have the same prediction of 4.65 AU, Flat Earth theory predicts 4 AU and Concave Earth theory predicts 7 AU. Only one is correct.

I would have thought that after being unable to even calculate the angles of a triangle Sculelos would have given up on math.

Quote from: sokarul on September 12, 2014, 01:30:35 PM

I would have thought that after being unable to even calculate the angles of a triangle Sculelos would have given up on math.

We're talking about BS math though remember?  The possibilities are endless when you know how it works.  For example, take the visible spectrum of light, 550 nm being roughly the middle range, divided by an angle of 45 degrees = 12.22 hertz now simply increase the decibles by 90 divided by 3.14 and you get 350 cubic inches of displacement, and chevy small-block engines are visible to the naked eye.  Coincidence?

At 12 am midnight Jupiter should be roughly in the 8:36 pm position. It should roughly follow whatever time-zone you are in because it's trailing by -3:24 hours right now in the east but it is moving in a west direction over the course of many days. Yeah it moves East to West over the course of one day unless it's in retrograde which then it appears to move West to East.

At 12 am midnight Jupiter should be roughly in the 8:36 pm position. It should roughly follow whatever time-zone you are in because it's trailing by -3:24 hours right now in the east but it is moving in a west direction over the course of many days.

Yeah it moves East to West over the course of one day unless it's in retrograde which then it appears to move West to East.

This picture shows 6 degrees of separation from the shadows

so all I had to do was match Earth shadows with Jupiter shadows in angle and see how much less Jupiter was.

The answer was 7.13 times so 7.13 times was the AU Jupiter is from Earth.

AU in heliocentrism is 93,000,000 miles average in Concave Earth theory it's much less, like 98 Earth mass miles. After about 5.5 miles  Earth starts separating and the separation point starts at about 62 miles high so it's a strong projection of Earth matter above in a abyss like chasm and columns of electricity run through the entire universe, it's inside out going outside in (like a shadow). 

... If Jupiter's real motion is varying 3 AU in only 10.5 months and the star rotation is real then it means the starlight is dragging along the ground at .29 miles per second. This means for retrograde motion you need to double this figure starting at 7 times so for Jupiter to retrograde at 7 AU it needs to fall at 37.12 miles per second. If it's falling 3 AU over 10.5 months it's falling at about 10 miles per second, at 6 AU it needs to fall at 18.56 mps at 5 AU it needs to fall at 9.28 mps. So If jupiter actually does travel from 4 AU to 7 AU per year it has about 1/3rd of that time in retrograde. So for year about 364 days long Jupiter should retrograde about 121.33 days. Because in those days the stars make a full rotation you minus 1 so you get 120.33 days. That is pretty much total proof that the Earth is concave because geocentric Earth requires times that exceed the speed of light while heliocentric theory gravity would not be able to hold an object traveling at such high velocities with high eccentricities. Flat Earth can't explain how space travel is possible and indeed if the Earth were flat you would see objects change directions at a sharp 90 degree angle after mid-day where we see a smooth curve. In geocentrism the velocities required are impossible.

So in order of likely-hood I'd give these percentages of probability:

Earth is Concave: 100%
Earth is Flat: 0%
Earth is Heliocentric: 0%
Earth is Geocentric: 0%

Imagine that. It seems like every time you misinterpret or miscalculate something, the only possible explanation for the result you see is "we're living inside a concave earth!"

It's all based on geometry.

Earth is Concave: 100%
Earth is Flat: 0%
Earth is Heliocentric: 0%
Earth is Geocentric: 0%