USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war

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Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #60 on: July 27, 2014, 11:31:09 AM »
If they are special effects please explain why it can't be possible in reality to launch a rocket from under water.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #61 on: July 27, 2014, 11:32:41 AM »
Put some effort in scepti.

Have a think.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

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sceptimatic

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Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #62 on: July 27, 2014, 11:47:22 AM »
If they are special effects please explain why it can't be possible in reality to launch a rocket from under water.
A couple of reasons why it wouldn't happen.

1. Using compressed air to launch a 20 plus foot so called missile vertically from a submarine would immediately hit problems upon ejection. As the tube opened to allow the head of the missile out, the water would immediately rush in and counteract the push, leaving only the bouyancy of the rocket, which would be full of fuel plus a warhead to mildly float to the top and pop it's head above water.

2.No missile would ignite under water and propel above it. This should be common sense. Even if you could, all you would do is flash boil the water, so basically your reliance is on basically compressed air again from the oxygen and fuel mixture inside the missile.

Missile require air to push against. They have to be able to super heat that air to create enough low pressure to allow the higher pressure air to fill that space and push the rocket up. Water is not going to provide that, unless that rocket can be popped out of the water and then ignite, then to gain enough momentum to go ballistic.

It's agood for TV and good for sci-fi - but that's about it.


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ausGeoff

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Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #63 on: July 27, 2014, 11:48:16 AM »
Deflection it is. Exactly as I thought.

You can only deny stuff. But you can never explain why you're denying them because you don't actually understand them to begin with.

Deflecting questions for which he has no answers is a fine art to people such as sceptimatic.  You'll notice that he never answers any questions put to him directly.  He also never posts any links, references or citations to his claims;  he says he just "knows" things are factual—without any viable evidence.  He can work out any complex scientific scenario solely within his own brain, and without reference to any standard science texts.

His main defence (if you can call it that LOL) is to insult people personally with childish rebukes, and refute their claims and/or empirical evidence by simply saying they're lies or fabrications or part of some gigantic conspiracy—that only he can see through.  He also claims that we round earthers are nothing more than shills, and part of the conspiracy to maintain what he calls the myth of the spherical planet alive.

He often explains away the inexplicable (in flat earth terms) by calling on something he calls "denpressure".  He can't describe its units of measurement, nor can he say whether it's a scalar or a vector quantity.  Apparently denpressure is an entity that's a combination of two dissimilar entities—density and pressure.  If you ask him to clarify denpressure—as I have numerous times here—he'll simply refuse, and probably insult your intelligence while he's at it.


Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #64 on: July 27, 2014, 11:55:12 AM »
If they are special effects please explain why it can't be possible in reality to launch a rocket from under water.
A couple of reasons why it wouldn't happen.

1. Using compressed air to launch a 20 plus foot so called missile vertically from a submarine would immediately hit problems upon ejection. As the tube opened to allow the head of the missile out, the water would immediately rush in and counteract the push, leaving only the bouyancy of the rocket, which would be full of fuel plus a warhead to mildly float to the top and pop it's head above water.

2.No missile would ignite under water and propel above it. This should be common sense. Even if you could, all you would do is flash boil the water, so basically your reliance is on basically compressed air again from the oxygen and fuel mixture inside the missile.

Missile require air to push against. They have to be able to super heat that air to create enough low pressure to allow the higher pressure air to fill that space and push the rocket up. Water is not going to provide that, unless that rocket can be popped out of the water and then ignite, then to gain enough momentum to go ballistic.

It's agood for TV and good for sci-fi - but that's about it.

First of all, the missile launch is a two-stage process - the missile engine doesn't actually start until it's clear out of the water. SLBMs and vertical-launched Tomahawks actually get pushed out by high-pressure air with enough force to lift the tail end a few feet out of the water - then the rocket engine kicks in, and in the case of the Tomahawk the process of deploying and starting the jet engine and dropping the rocket engine begins. With Harpoon it's a bit different - they are launched horizontally from the torpedo tube within a container shaped a bit like a torpedo. That container then angles upwards and soon breaches the water surface... then the top blows off and the missile is launched from inside the launch container.

All of those missiles will get a last position update right before launch, so they'll roughly know where they are when they leave the water - the vertically launched missiles of course having a better position fix than the tube-launched ones, as those travel a bit downrange. Once airborne, the missiles will then switch on their GPS receivers and will get a position fix from GPS within seconds (military GPS receivers getting a much more accurate signal than the civilian ones...). Once the navigation system has an updated position, it will plot an updated course for the missile to follow.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

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sokarul

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Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #65 on: July 27, 2014, 11:58:38 AM »
1. V2 rockets do not go into space. I don't know who said they did, but they don't.

2. Rockets can of course launch underwater. Rocket engines do not take oxygen from the air. They either use stored liquid oxygen or another oxidizer or use a solid fuel that is self oxidizing. This is why there are so many videos of rockets launching from underwater. Not to mention the other ways using compressed air that were mentioned. Gunpowder is self oxidizing, this is why you can shoot guns underwater.

3. Sceptic once again shows how he knows nothing about anything.
Sokarul

ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

Run Sandokhan run

Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #66 on: July 27, 2014, 12:19:26 PM »
Can i answer the original question. The simple reason ICBMs have never been used with conventional warheads is because they can be mistaken for a nuclear launch. Especially when country's like Russia were on a launch on warning fitting during the cold war

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sceptimatic

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Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #67 on: July 27, 2014, 12:24:40 PM »


 Rockets can of course launch underwater. Rocket engines do not take oxygen from the air. They either use stored liquid oxygen or another oxidizer or use a solid fuel that is self oxidizing. This is why there are so many videos of rockets launching from underwater. Not to mention the other ways using compressed air that were mentioned. Gunpowder is self oxidizing, this is why you can shoot guns underwater.

3. Sceptic once again shows how he knows nothing about anything.
20:18 onwards. You were saying about rockets?

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">

Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #68 on: July 27, 2014, 12:28:12 PM »
Notice how right around the mark you pointed out scepti...........your question about water flooding into the tube is answered.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

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sceptimatic

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Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2014, 12:35:30 PM »
Notice how right around the mark you pointed out scepti...........your question about water flooding into the tube is answered.
Of course it's answered. I mean, they have to provide the reason don't they, or their ruse is immediately ripped apart.
If you watch the video a little bit further back, they even try to cover for the heavier so called ballistic missiles by pretending the fire their rockets into some water to create steam that pushed the missile out. It's complete and absolute baloney, seriously.

I ask any rational person to question this stuff.
Next time anyone goes in the bath, get a bar of soap and pull it under the water near the bottom, then squeeze that soap as hard as you can to try and get it to jump out of the water.
The best you will do is pop it to the top and that's it.

Do people seriously believe that compressed air in a pipe can propel a 20 plus foot fully fueled missile up through 120 feet of water to pop out of the sea, then fire a rocket engine to go and hit a target.

It's stuff of fantasy. It's made for TV bull crap to have us all believing that nobody is safe at any distance.

Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #70 on: July 27, 2014, 12:40:37 PM »
Wow.

So because when little baby scepti sits in the bath tub and mommy forgot to give him a ducky.......he plays with the soap instead. And he can't make the soap launch out of the water.


There it is folks. Proof rockets can't work in the water. Scepti said so and used a bar of soap in the bath tub as his proof.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #71 on: July 27, 2014, 12:41:05 PM »
Notice how right around the mark you pointed out scepti...........your question about water flooding into the tube is answered.
Of course it's answered. I mean, they have to provide the reason don't they, or their ruse is immediately ripped apart.
If you watch the video a little bit further back, they even try to cover for the heavier so called ballistic missiles by pretending the fire their rockets into some water to create steam that pushed the missile out. It's complete and absolute baloney, seriously.

I ask any rational person to question this stuff.
Next time anyone goes in the bath, get a bar of soap and pull it under the water near the bottom, then squeeze that soap as hard as you can to try and get it to jump out of the water.
The best you will do is pop it to the top and that's it.

Do people seriously believe that compressed air in a pipe can propel a 20 plus foot fully fueled missile up through 120 feet of water to pop out of the sea, then fire a rocket engine to go and hit a target.

It's stuff of fantasy. It's made for TV bull crap to have us all believing that nobody is safe at any distance.
It is just your total lack of knowledge of science and engineering that is your problem.

Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #72 on: July 27, 2014, 12:41:24 PM »
Safe to say this discussion is over.

/thread
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

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sceptimatic

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Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #73 on: July 27, 2014, 12:45:50 PM »
Wow.

So because when little baby scepti sits in the bath tub and mommy forgot to give him a ducky.......he plays with the soap instead. And he can't make the soap launch out of the water.


There it is folks. Proof rockets can't work in the water. Scepti said so and used a bar of soap in the bath tub as his proof.
Go in a swimming pool and use some compressed air rocket if you want to. I promise you it won't jump out of the water and leave a gap at its arse end.

Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #74 on: July 27, 2014, 12:46:54 PM »
No, please stop.

You convinced me at bar of soap in the bathtub.

I'm transferring over to your team now. I fully believe in the ice dome and everything else.

The empirical evidence you have provided is undeniable.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa


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ausGeoff

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Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #76 on: July 27, 2014, 12:58:40 PM »
Next time anyone goes in the bath, get a bar of soap and pull it under the water near the bottom, then squeeze that soap as hard as you can to try and get it to jump out of the water.

The best you will do is pop it to the top and that's it.


Wow!  This is the sort of scientific expertise that would've had Einstein grovelling at your feet sceptimatic!

This absolutely destroys the entire theory of ballistics in one fell swoop. 

Well done.


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sokarul

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Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #77 on: July 27, 2014, 01:38:12 PM »


 Rockets can of course launch underwater. Rocket engines do not take oxygen from the air. They either use stored liquid oxygen or another oxidizer or use a solid fuel that is self oxidizing. This is why there are so many videos of rockets launching from underwater. Not to mention the other ways using compressed air that were mentioned. Gunpowder is self oxidizing, this is why you can shoot guns underwater.

3. Sceptic once again shows how he knows nothing about anything.
20:18 onwards. You were saying about rockets?

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">
That agrees with what I and others have said. It does not agree with anything you said.
When the video claimed rockets can't work under water if was wrong. I'm sure the type of rocket they were showing in the video is too big to work underwater.

A video of an Estes Rocket launching underwater has already been posted.
Sokarul

ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

Run Sandokhan run


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sceptimatic

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Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #79 on: July 28, 2014, 03:00:29 AM »


 Rockets can of course launch underwater. Rocket engines do not take oxygen from the air. They either use stored liquid oxygen or another oxidizer or use a solid fuel that is self oxidizing. This is why there are so many videos of rockets launching from underwater. Not to mention the other ways using compressed air that were mentioned. Gunpowder is self oxidizing, this is why you can shoot guns underwater.

3. Sceptic once again shows how he knows nothing about anything.
20:18 onwards. You were saying about rockets?

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">
That agrees with what I and others have said. It does not agree with anything you said.
When the video claimed rockets can't work under water if was wrong. I'm sure the type of rocket they were showing in the video is too big to work underwater.

A video of an Estes Rocket launching underwater has already been posted.
Here's a video of a fighter jet launched from a submarine, so I guess it must be true. Don;t dare tell me that this is special effects.

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">

Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #80 on: July 28, 2014, 04:49:39 AM »
You had me at soap in the bath tub.

No need to keep arguing.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #81 on: July 28, 2014, 04:52:45 AM »
By the way.......

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All you posted was yet another video of a missile being launched from under the water. Something you say is impossible. It's doctored, poorly, to look like a jet.

Thanks for providing more visible proof that what you say is impossible actually isn't.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

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sceptimatic

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Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #82 on: July 28, 2014, 04:57:19 AM »
By the way.......

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">

All you posted was yet another video of a missile being launched from under the water. Something you say is impossible. It's doctored, poorly, to look like a jet.

Thanks for providing more visible proof that what you say is impossible actually isn't.
And here's me thinking it was a real jet launch.
It's amazing what can be done isn't it, even if it does look fake. Just like the rockets that are launched.

Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #83 on: July 28, 2014, 05:07:14 AM »
The rockets that are launched are real.

I've seen it done with my own two eyes.

If you stop playing with your soap in the bathtub you might be able to get out in the world and experience real stuff too.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

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sceptimatic

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Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #84 on: July 28, 2014, 05:11:04 AM »
The rockets that are launched are real.

I've seen it done with my own two eyes.

If you stop playing with your soap in the bathtub you might be able to get out in the world and experience real stuff too.
Where were you when you watched a rocket launch from a submarine or a space rocket launch?

Describe it to me.

Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #85 on: July 28, 2014, 05:15:29 AM »
I've watched a space shuttle launch from Cape Canaveral.

I've seen a lot of missiles launched from both above the water and below. From being in Desert Storm to military exercises and so on.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

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sceptimatic

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Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #86 on: July 28, 2014, 05:17:49 AM »
I've watched a space shuttle launch from Cape Canaveral.

I've seen a lot of missiles launched from both above the water and below. From being in Desert Storm to military exercises and so on.
Yeah, I watched santa deliver all his presents and saw him take off.

Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #87 on: July 28, 2014, 05:20:47 AM »
I've watched a space shuttle launch from Cape Canaveral.

I've seen a lot of missiles launched from both above the water and below. From being in Desert Storm to military exercises and so on.
Yeah, I watched santa deliver all his presents and saw him take off.

That's special. Did he deliver you some soap on a rope? It's much easier to hold in the tub.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa

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sceptimatic

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Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #88 on: July 28, 2014, 05:23:27 AM »
I've watched a space shuttle launch from Cape Canaveral.

I've seen a lot of missiles launched from both above the water and below. From being in Desert Storm to military exercises and so on.
Yeah, I watched santa deliver all his presents and saw him take off.

That's special. Did he deliver you some soap on a rope? It's much easier to hold in the tub.
I think it's time you started to question some of this stuff. You can't be comfortable living in a world of lies now that you can see how your percieved reality carries a lot of fakery.

Re: USA did never try an ICBM with a conventional warhead in any war
« Reply #89 on: July 28, 2014, 05:27:57 AM »
There are a ton of lies in the world. All over the place. Conspiracies are abound. Governments are corrupt.

The shape of the Earth? Not a lie.

Rockets in the water? Also not a lie.


You make the unfounded assumption that someone that believes the above must be brainwashed and believes all lies. You're an idiot. It's time for a bath.
You did not ask me for logic.  You asked for my opinion. - Jroa