Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #390 on: July 28, 2014, 07:56:55 AM »
Quote
I'm also an inventor.
Can you tell us briefly—and in general terms only—what you've invented that's become a commercial success?

Classified information, Geoffrey, you should know this.
Actually, patents are a part of the public record.
Yes they are. I'm classifying the information for the questions asked. Basically I'll decide when I tell about my life by my own choice. I'm deciding not to give Geoffrey any information on any of this. I do not trust the entity.

Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #391 on: July 28, 2014, 08:17:54 AM »
I'm still not seeing an answer as to why a lead weight at 30m underwater doesn't weigh 4x more than it does at sea level?

Weight is pressure based, according to denpressure hypothesis, no?

This should be the test to verify your hypothesis. A lead weight at 30m depth should weigh 4x more than at sea level, since at 30m depth you are at 4 atmospheres pressure.

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macrohard

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #392 on: July 28, 2014, 08:27:18 AM »
I'm still not seeing an answer as to why a lead weight at 30m underwater doesn't weigh 4x more than it does at sea level?

Weight is pressure based, according to denpressure hypothesis, no?

This should be the test to verify your hypothesis. A lead weight at 30m depth should weigh 4x more than at sea level, since at 30m depth you are at 4 atmospheres pressure.

You're forgetting the den part of den pressure.  It's a function of density as well as pressure.  The more dense water somehow counteracts the increased pressure.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #393 on: July 28, 2014, 08:33:12 AM »
I'm still not seeing an answer as to why a lead weight at 30m underwater doesn't weigh 4x more than it does at sea level?

Weight is pressure based, according to denpressure hypothesis, no?

This should be the test to verify your hypothesis. A lead weight at 30m depth should weigh 4x more than at sea level, since at 30m depth you are at 4 atmospheres pressure.
How would you weigh it?

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macrohard

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #394 on: July 28, 2014, 08:58:15 AM »
I'm still not seeing an answer as to why a lead weight at 30m underwater doesn't weigh 4x more than it does at sea level?

Weight is pressure based, according to denpressure hypothesis, no?

This should be the test to verify your hypothesis. A lead weight at 30m depth should weigh 4x more than at sea level, since at 30m depth you are at 4 atmospheres pressure.
How would you weigh it?
The same way you'd weigh anything... with a spring with a known constant.  The displacement is proportional to the downward force (weight).

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sceptimatic

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #395 on: July 28, 2014, 09:25:04 AM »
I'm still not seeing an answer as to why a lead weight at 30m underwater doesn't weigh 4x more than it does at sea level?

Weight is pressure based, according to denpressure hypothesis, no?

This should be the test to verify your hypothesis. A lead weight at 30m depth should weigh 4x more than at sea level, since at 30m depth you are at 4 atmospheres pressure.
How would you weigh it?
The same way you'd weigh anything... with a spring with a known constant.  The displacement is proportional to the downward force (weight).
Yep. The fact that water is more dense than air, then as the lead weight drops into it, it is up against a much stronger resistance against it's own mass.

You see, it isn't quite a simple as to say that the lead weighs less under water because it is being weighed in a different environment.
We could argue that picking that lead up off the ground and holding it above your head, it is going to feel much heavier than if you picked it up from 30 meters udner water and done the same thing.
It's a bit of a cheat though, because your body is a floatation device, so you are actually being aided by the water pressure acting equally around the lead, allowing your body to more easily keep it above you.

It might appear simple but it's not quite as simple as it seems to weigh it.

Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #396 on: July 28, 2014, 09:31:28 AM »
The spring scales are sitting on the bottom of the 30m deep lake.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #397 on: July 28, 2014, 09:36:21 AM »
The spring scales are sitting on the bottom of the 30m deep lake.
So what are you trying to say?

Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #398 on: July 28, 2014, 09:46:56 AM »
The spring scales are sitting on the bottom of the 30m deep lake.
So what are you trying to say?
Think. They are not affected by a human body.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #399 on: July 28, 2014, 09:57:21 AM »
The spring scales are sitting on the bottom of the 30m deep lake.
So what are you trying to say?
Think. They are not affected by a human body.
They are still affected by the difference in density of water against air, aren't they?

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macrohard

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #400 on: July 28, 2014, 10:13:18 AM »
The spring scales are sitting on the bottom of the 30m deep lake.
So what are you trying to say?
Think. They are not affected by a human body.
They are still affected by the difference in density of water against air, aren't they?

The reason it feels lighter is because there is some buoyancy.  Whatever you are weighing, take the volume and subtract out the buoyant force and bing boom you get weight.

Your denpressure concept is a combination of gravitational force, buoyant force, and density.  You're combining the Pv in Pv = RT.  It's actually quite clever and conceptually sound come to think of it.  The problem is there is no one equation to apply it and there are special cases where pressure or density can be zero but the other parts would still apply.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #401 on: July 28, 2014, 10:30:51 AM »
The spring scales are sitting on the bottom of the 30m deep lake.
So what are you trying to say?
Think. They are not affected by a human body.
They are still affected by the difference in density of water against air, aren't they?

The reason it feels lighter is because there is some buoyancy.  Whatever you are weighing, take the volume and subtract out the buoyant force and bing boom you get weight.

Your denpressure concept is a combination of gravitational force, buoyant force, and density.  You're combining the Pv in Pv = RT.  It's actually quite clever and conceptually sound come to think of it.  The problem is there is no one equation to apply it and there are special cases where pressure or density can be zero but the other parts would still apply.
If you can get space from the equation you will find that gravity is not needed.
It is simply any dense object PUSHING against atmospheric pressure, displacing it's own mass in that pressure environment.
If it's pushed up, the pressure becomes less and the mass of the object can expand. As in water, being more dense, it's the opposite way around, as in it's under the pressure of sea level atmosphere, then as you drop it down into the ocean, deeper and deeper, it will compress as the pressure gains.
The more it's compressed, the deeper it goes.
Naturally it's dependent on the actual density of the object which determines how much it can compress.

Nothing is ever perfectly buoyant. There must always be a force of pressure pushing down as much as a resistance, or pushing back.

Definitely no gravity needed.

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rottingroom

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #402 on: July 28, 2014, 10:45:01 AM »
If not gravity then some mechanism to determine the tendency of things to go down. You went on with it anyway without attempting to address the holes. Again, a rock drops because pressure pushes it down from the energy it took to put it up there. The pressure this creates below the rock should send it back up then.

Similarly, if I grab a pinecone from a tree and pull it down near to the ground, it should fly up to the top of the dome.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #403 on: July 28, 2014, 11:35:40 AM »
If not gravity then some mechanism to determine the tendency of things to go down. You went on with it anyway without attempting to address the holes. Again, a rock drops because pressure pushes it down from the energy it took to put it up there. The pressure this creates below the rock should send it back up then.

Similarly, if I grab a pinecone from a tree and pull it down near to the ground, it should fly up to the top of the dome.
The pine cone has more density than the atmosphere it is taking up, so it's going to push through the resistance of the atmosphere under it.

You know those party helium balloons with the little weight attached that stand up as the weight touches the table or floor. Pull one of those down and you get the drift.

Denpressure. No gravity required.

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Shmeggley

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #404 on: July 28, 2014, 11:39:08 AM »
If not gravity then some mechanism to determine the tendency of things to go down. You went on with it anyway without attempting to address the holes. Again, a rock drops because pressure pushes it down from the energy it took to put it up there. The pressure this creates below the rock should send it back up then.

Similarly, if I grab a pinecone from a tree and pull it down near to the ground, it should fly up to the top of the dome.
The pine cone has more density than the atmosphere it is taking up, so it's going to push through the resistance of the atmosphere under it.

You know those party helium balloons with the little weight attached that stand up as the weight touches the table or floor. Pull one of those down and you get the drift.

Denpressure. No gravity required.

What's making the pinecone push through the air beneath it? Its density? Why does density result in a push towards the ground?
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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rottingroom

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #405 on: July 28, 2014, 11:46:41 AM »
If not gravity then some mechanism to determine the tendency of things to go down. You went on with it anyway without attempting to address the holes. Again, a rock drops because pressure pushes it down from the energy it took to put it up there. The pressure this creates below the rock should send it back up then.

Similarly, if I grab a pinecone from a tree and pull it down near to the ground, it should fly up to the top of the dome.
The pine cone has more density than the atmosphere it is taking up, so it's going to push through the resistance of the atmosphere under it.

You know those party helium balloons with the little weight attached that stand up as the weight touches the table or floor. Pull one of those down and you get the drift.

Denpressure. No gravity required.

What's making the pinecone push through the air beneath it? Its density? Why does density result in a push towards the ground?

He refusesbto acknowledge the argument against him.

Look scepti, the goal of the gravity theory is to explain why things go down. Den pressure sort of explains things go in some direction but it does nothing for that particular direction that we care about which is DOWN.

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Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #406 on: July 28, 2014, 11:55:44 AM »
I'm always up for a good beatdown of sceptimatic's denpressure theory and his inevitable deluded rants that follow, but we've wandered pretty far afield from the OP at this point. Besides scepti's self-admittedly inexpert opinion that they are impossible, is there any real reason to suggest that all the shuttle missions were fake?
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #407 on: July 28, 2014, 12:07:24 PM »
If not gravity then some mechanism to determine the tendency of things to go down. You went on with it anyway without attempting to address the holes. Again, a rock drops because pressure pushes it down from the energy it took to put it up there. The pressure this creates below the rock should send it back up then.

Similarly, if I grab a pinecone from a tree and pull it down near to the ground, it should fly up to the top of the dome.
The pine cone has more density than the atmosphere it is taking up, so it's going to push through the resistance of the atmosphere under it.

You know those party helium balloons with the little weight attached that stand up as the weight touches the table or floor. Pull one of those down and you get the drift.

Denpressure. No gravity required.

What's making the pinecone push through the air beneath it? Its density? Why does density result in a push towards the ground?
To understand it, you have to see it from the ground up.
Take an apple tree. Its seed growns by rain pushing it against the ground. The seed resists this by pushing against that and also stopping itself from being pushed under the ground. It does this by spreading itself out, as in, roots. The more dense it grows , the more it is being pushed and the more it pushes back by levering itself by spreading out. As it does this, in time it  balances itself, as in, it het's out the balancing sticks, as in, it grows branches to ensure it pushes through the least resistance, as in as straight up as possible.

As it takes in enery pushed up through it's roots to it's trunk and branches, it starts to create stems, then a small apple. The pressure up this apple is small as the apple starts to push into it. It gradually gets more and more as the apple continues to take in more nutrients and so, it keeps pushing against the pressure as the pressure keeps pushing back and around it. It gets denser and has s skin to allow it to keep it's density whilst not being taken apart.
As it grows, it's stretching the stem. Just like someone hanging on a rope and adding lead in their pockets, kind of thing.
In time, the apple gains a little bit more mass forcing more pressure against it, until the stem can no longer hold that pressure, so it's pushed through the least resistance until the resistance stops it, which is the ground.

Nothing is pulled. There is no such thing as pull. It's all the force of squeeze and push on dense objects/marterial, either down in the case of a more dense material or up in terms of expanded matter as in helium, hydrogen and such like.

No such thing as gravity.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #408 on: July 28, 2014, 12:09:37 PM »
If not gravity then some mechanism to determine the tendency of things to go down. You went on with it anyway without attempting to address the holes. Again, a rock drops because pressure pushes it down from the energy it took to put it up there. The pressure this creates below the rock should send it back up then.

Similarly, if I grab a pinecone from a tree and pull it down near to the ground, it should fly up to the top of the dome.
The pine cone has more density than the atmosphere it is taking up, so it's going to push through the resistance of the atmosphere under it.

You know those party helium balloons with the little weight attached that stand up as the weight touches the table or floor. Pull one of those down and you get the drift.

Denpressure. No gravity required.

What's making the pinecone push through the air beneath it? Its density? Why does density result in a push towards the ground?

He refusesbto acknowledge the argument against him.

Look scepti, the goal of the gravity theory is to explain why things go down. Den pressure sort of explains things go in some direction but it does nothing for that particular direction that we care about which is DOWN.
Down is the resistance of any dense object that pushes up against atmospheric pressure  by energy applied.


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sceptimatic

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #409 on: July 28, 2014, 12:12:47 PM »
I'm always up for a good beatdown of sceptimatic's denpressure theory and his inevitable deluded rants that follow, but we've wandered pretty far afield from the OP at this point. Besides scepti's self-admittedly inexpert opinion that they are impossible, is there any real reason to suggest that all the shuttle missions were fake?
Plenty of logical reason but all get immediately denied by people like you that have no intention of even wanting to know the truth.
Your goal is to deny anything against your masters. It's as simple as that. You question absolutely nothing.

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macrohard

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #410 on: July 28, 2014, 12:19:48 PM »
Denpressure directly responsible for plant growth.  I'm done.

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Rama Set

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #411 on: July 28, 2014, 03:38:53 PM »
Down is the resistance of any dense object that pushes up against atmospheric pressure  by energy applied.

But the question is why down and not up?  Nothing in your thinking specifically excludes things being denpressured(!) up even though this clearly does not happen.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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rottingroom

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #412 on: July 28, 2014, 04:56:54 PM »
If not gravity then some mechanism to determine the tendency of things to go down. You went on with it anyway without attempting to address the holes. Again, a rock drops because pressure pushes it down from the energy it took to put it up there. The pressure this creates below the rock should send it back up then.

Similarly, if I grab a pinecone from a tree and pull it down near to the ground, it should fly up to the top of the dome.
The pine cone has more density than the atmosphere it is taking up, so it's going to push through the resistance of the atmosphere under it.

You know those party helium balloons with the little weight attached that stand up as the weight touches the table or floor. Pull one of those down and you get the drift.

Denpressure. No gravity required.

What's making the pinecone push through the air beneath it? Its density? Why does density result in a push towards the ground?

He refusesbto acknowledge the argument against him.

Look scepti, the goal of the gravity theory is to explain why things go down. Den pressure sort of explains things go in some direction but it does nothing for that particular direction that we care about which is DOWN.
Down is the resistance of any dense object that pushes up against atmospheric pressure  by energy applied.

I know your answer. This is the same answer you keep giving. The same one that doesn't address the question.

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Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #413 on: July 28, 2014, 05:13:58 PM »
I'm always up for a good beatdown of sceptimatic's denpressure theory and his inevitable deluded rants that follow, but we've wandered pretty far afield from the OP at this point. Besides scepti's self-admittedly inexpert opinion that they are impossible, is there any real reason to suggest that all the shuttle missions were fake?
Plenty of logical reason but all get immediately denied by people like you that have no intention of even wanting to know the truth.
Your goal is to deny anything against your masters. It's as simple as that. You question absolutely nothing.

You have a very selective memory then, as I can't even begin to count the questions I have asked you about denpressure. Of course I have questioned the prevailing theory as well. Especially as a kid I was a ball of questions. In the last few years especially I've only gotten better at it as I've gained more knowledge which allows one to ask better questions. I can't tell you why gravity exists, but it's clear that a force exists between masses, which has something to do with the nature of space and time. A theory and mathematical framework exists that has unprecedented explanatory power.

Meanwhile, "denpressure" isn't even consistent in itself, and can't answer the most basic questions like, "why doesn't my weight depend on the barometer?" and "if air pressure pushes us down, why doesn't a high pressure system to the east of me push me to the west?".
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #414 on: July 28, 2014, 05:20:26 PM »
I'm always up for a good beatdown of sceptimatic's denpressure theory and his inevitable deluded rants that follow, but we've wandered pretty far afield from the OP at this point. Besides scepti's self-admittedly inexpert opinion that they are impossible, is there any real reason to suggest that all the shuttle missions were fake?
Plenty of logical reason but all get immediately denied by people like you that have no intention of even wanting to know the truth.
Your goal is to deny anything against your masters. It's as simple as that. You question absolutely nothing.

With regards to the shuttle program, I'd suggest that you only post on what you have evidence for, but for you that might not be so interesting as I suspect it would be an extremely short post.
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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macrohard

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #415 on: July 28, 2014, 05:28:01 PM »
I'm always up for a good beatdown of sceptimatic's denpressure theory and his inevitable deluded rants that follow, but we've wandered pretty far afield from the OP at this point. Besides scepti's self-admittedly inexpert opinion that they are impossible, is there any real reason to suggest that all the shuttle missions were fake?
Plenty of logical reason but all get immediately denied by people like you that have no intention of even wanting to know the truth.
Your goal is to deny anything against your masters. It's as simple as that. You question absolutely nothing.

You have a very selective memory then, as I can't even begin to count the questions I have asked you about denpressure. Of course I have questioned the prevailing theory as well. Especially as a kid I was a ball of questions. In the last few years especially I've only gotten better at it as I've gained more knowledge which allows one to ask better questions. I can't tell you why gravity exists, but it's clear that a force exists between masses, which has something to do with the nature of space and time. A theory and mathematical framework exists that has unprecedented explanatory power.

Meanwhile, "denpressure" isn't even consistent in itself, and can't answer the most basic questions like, "why doesn't my weight depend on the barometer?" and "if air pressure pushes us down, why doesn't a high pressure system to the east of me push me to the west?".

A pressure gradient does push to the side... just not on a noticeable scale.  This applies to both denpressure and mainstream science.

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rottingroom

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #416 on: July 28, 2014, 05:31:45 PM »
I'm always up for a good beatdown of sceptimatic's denpressure theory and his inevitable deluded rants that follow, but we've wandered pretty far afield from the OP at this point. Besides scepti's self-admittedly inexpert opinion that they are impossible, is there any real reason to suggest that all the shuttle missions were fake?
Plenty of logical reason but all get immediately denied by people like you that have no intention of even wanting to know the truth.
Your goal is to deny anything against your masters. It's as simple as that. You question absolutely nothing.

You have a very selective memory then, as I can't even begin to count the questions I have asked you about denpressure. Of course I have questioned the prevailing theory as well. Especially as a kid I was a ball of questions. In the last few years especially I've only gotten better at it as I've gained more knowledge which allows one to ask better questions. I can't tell you why gravity exists, but it's clear that a force exists between masses, which has something to do with the nature of space and time. A theory and mathematical framework exists that has unprecedented explanatory power.

Meanwhile, "denpressure" isn't even consistent in itself, and can't answer the most basic questions like, "why doesn't my weight depend on the barometer?" and "if air pressure pushes us down, why doesn't a high pressure system to the east of me push me to the west?".

A pressure gradient does push to the side... just not on a noticeable scale.  This applies to both denpressure and mainstream science.

If the amount of pressure created above a rock the instant it is lifted is great enough that it should be sending the rock hurdling toward the earth, then a simple pressure gradient should send cars flying sideways everyday.

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macrohard

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #417 on: July 28, 2014, 05:50:32 PM »
I'm always up for a good beatdown of sceptimatic's denpressure theory and his inevitable deluded rants that follow, but we've wandered pretty far afield from the OP at this point. Besides scepti's self-admittedly inexpert opinion that they are impossible, is there any real reason to suggest that all the shuttle missions were fake?
Plenty of logical reason but all get immediately denied by people like you that have no intention of even wanting to know the truth.
Your goal is to deny anything against your masters. It's as simple as that. You question absolutely nothing.

You have a very selective memory then, as I can't even begin to count the questions I have asked you about denpressure. Of course I have questioned the prevailing theory as well. Especially as a kid I was a ball of questions. In the last few years especially I've only gotten better at it as I've gained more knowledge which allows one to ask better questions. I can't tell you why gravity exists, but it's clear that a force exists between masses, which has something to do with the nature of space and time. A theory and mathematical framework exists that has unprecedented explanatory power.

Meanwhile, "denpressure" isn't even consistent in itself, and can't answer the most basic questions like, "why doesn't my weight depend on the barometer?" and "if air pressure pushes us down, why doesn't a high pressure system to the east of me push me to the west?".

A pressure gradient does push to the side... just not on a noticeable scale.  This applies to both denpressure and mainstream science.

If the amount of pressure created above a rock the instant it is lifted is great enough that it should be sending the rock hurdling toward the earth, then a simple pressure gradient should send cars flying sideways everyday.

That's because gravity/UA is what causes the rock to fall.

Gravity is explained by UA.  Bouyancy is explained by denpressure. (I use the term "explain" loosely.)

To be honest I do not have a problem with these notions.  At least they are in the realm of conceivability.  It is the assertion that there are no satellites and the earth is flat... this statements are irreconcilable with reality.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 05:58:17 PM by macrohard »

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rottingroom

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #418 on: July 28, 2014, 05:55:13 PM »
I'm always up for a good beatdown of sceptimatic's denpressure theory and his inevitable deluded rants that follow, but we've wandered pretty far afield from the OP at this point. Besides scepti's self-admittedly inexpert opinion that they are impossible, is there any real reason to suggest that all the shuttle missions were fake?
Plenty of logical reason but all get immediately denied by people like you that have no intention of even wanting to know the truth.
Your goal is to deny anything against your masters. It's as simple as that. You question absolutely nothing.

You have a very selective memory then, as I can't even begin to count the questions I have asked you about denpressure. Of course I have questioned the prevailing theory as well. Especially as a kid I was a ball of questions. In the last few years especially I've only gotten better at it as I've gained more knowledge which allows one to ask better questions. I can't tell you why gravity exists, but it's clear that a force exists between masses, which has something to do with the nature of space and time. A theory and mathematical framework exists that has unprecedented explanatory power.

Meanwhile, "denpressure" isn't even consistent in itself, and can't answer the most basic questions like, "why doesn't my weight depend on the barometer?" and "if air pressure pushes us down, why doesn't a high pressure system to the east of me push me to the west?".

A pressure gradient does push to the side... just not on a noticeable scale.  This applies to both denpressure and mainstream science.

If the amount of pressure created above a rock the instant it is lifted is great enough that it should be sending the rock hurdling toward the earth, then a simple pressure gradient should send cars flying sideways everyday.

That's because gravity/UA is what causes the rock to fall.

Gravity is explained by UA.  Bouyancy is explained by denpressure.  I use the term "explain" loosely.

This was implied.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Were all 130 space shuttle launches faked?
« Reply #419 on: July 29, 2014, 08:02:14 AM »
Denpressure directly responsible for plant growth.  I'm done.
Denpressure is driectly responsible for EVERYTHINGthat happens in the cell of Earth.