Meteors and Comets

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sokarul

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2014, 05:10:48 PM »

A cooling system? There are plenty of examples of cooling systems. Most easily, we can talk about examples with computing. There are fans and liquid cooling systems and so on. In any case, all these cooling systems require some sort of vent.
Or a condenser.
So condensers don't need vents now?  How do you think they get rid of heat? 

Take a look at the back of your fridge.
They get rid of heat by slowing down agitation of matter. That's how the Earth does it.

So slowing down the agitation of matter stops the production of heat but that doesn't answer the question.
It answers the question perfectly well. What are you having trouble with?
I'm having trouble with condensers have to do with anything? Condensers change gases to liquids by transfer of heat. What does that have to do with the ice dome not melting?
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sceptimatic

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2014, 05:14:52 PM »

A cooling system? There are plenty of examples of cooling systems. Most easily, we can talk about examples with computing. There are fans and liquid cooling systems and so on. In any case, all these cooling systems require some sort of vent.
Or a condenser.
So condensers don't need vents now?  How do you think they get rid of heat? 

Take a look at the back of your fridge.
They get rid of heat by slowing down agitation of matter. That's how the Earth does it.

So slowing down the agitation of matter stops the production of heat but that doesn't answer the question.
It answers the question perfectly well. What are you having trouble with?
I'm having trouble with condensers have to do with anything? Condensers change gases to liquids by transfer of heat. What does that have to do with the ice dome not melting?
Read a bit more of the topic then come back.

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sokarul

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2014, 05:16:57 PM »

A cooling system? There are plenty of examples of cooling systems. Most easily, we can talk about examples with computing. There are fans and liquid cooling systems and so on. In any case, all these cooling systems require some sort of vent.
Or a condenser.
So condensers don't need vents now?  How do you think they get rid of heat? 

Take a look at the back of your fridge.
They get rid of heat by slowing down agitation of matter. That's how the Earth does it.

So slowing down the agitation of matter stops the production of heat but that doesn't answer the question.
It answers the question perfectly well. What are you having trouble with?
I'm having trouble with condensers have to do with anything? Condensers change gases to liquids by transfer of heat. What does that have to do with the ice dome not melting?
Read a bit more of the topic then come back.
I did and all I saw was your lack of understanding.
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Shmeggley

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2014, 05:21:44 PM »
A cooling system? There are plenty of examples of cooling systems. Most easily, we can talk about examples with computing. There are fans and liquid cooling systems and so on. In any case, all these cooling systems require some sort of vent.
Or a condenser.
So condensers don't need vents now?  How do you think they get rid of heat? 

Take a look at the back of your fridge.
They get rid of heat by slowing down agitation of matter. That's how the Earth does it.

So slowing down the agitation of matter stops the production of heat but that doesn't answer the question.
It answers the question perfectly well. What are you having trouble with?

Scepti if you "slow down the agitation of matter" you are taking the energy out of that matter, which has to go somewhere. Heat naturally flows from a warmer place to a cooler place. To move heat the other way takes more energy and the end result is that the system as a whole gets warmer. Any system that could move heat from a cooler place to a warmer place without any expenditure of energy violates the second law of thermodynamics, which is not possible.

In a closed system entropy can only increase. Your Earth is a perfectly closed system. So you can never cool it.
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2014, 05:39:13 PM »
Heat is simply a measure of stored energy.
Nope. For example, Heat is not a measure of stored energy of the stored potential energy of a 1 kg mass on a cliff 1 km high above the FE surface.

You do understand that FET embraces GR's mass-energy equivalence,, right? See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E2%80%93energy_equivalence

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2014, 05:44:51 PM »

A cooling system? There are plenty of examples of cooling systems. Most easily, we can talk about examples with computing. There are fans and liquid cooling systems and so on. In any case, all these cooling systems require some sort of vent.
Or a condenser.
So condensers don't need vents now?  How do you think they get rid of heat? 

Take a look at the back of your fridge.
They get rid of heat by slowing down agitation of matter. That's how the Earth does it.

So slowing down the agitation of matter stops the production of heat but that doesn't answer the question.
It answers the question perfectly well. What are you having trouble with?
I'm having trouble with condensers have to do with anything? Condensers change gases to liquids by transfer of heat. What does that have to do with the ice dome not melting?

Condensers change liquids to gas by pressure.  Heat being taken in or removed is simply a by-product. 

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rottingroom

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2014, 05:52:54 PM »

A cooling system? There are plenty of examples of cooling systems. Most easily, we can talk about examples with computing. There are fans and liquid cooling systems and so on. In any case, all these cooling systems require some sort of vent.
Or a condenser.
So condensers don't need vents now?  How do you think they get rid of heat? 

Take a look at the back of your fridge.
They get rid of heat by slowing down agitation of matter. That's how the Earth does it.

So slowing down the agitation of matter stops the production of heat but that doesn't answer the question.
It answers the question perfectly well. What are you having trouble with?
I'm having trouble with condensers have to do with anything? Condensers change gases to liquids by transfer of heat. What does that have to do with the ice dome not melting?

Condensers change liquids to gas by pressure.  Heat being taken in or removed is simply a by-product.

An unavoidable byproduct. One that scepti's ice dome isn't immune to.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2014, 05:55:21 PM »

A cooling system? There are plenty of examples of cooling systems. Most easily, we can talk about examples with computing. There are fans and liquid cooling systems and so on. In any case, all these cooling systems require some sort of vent.
Or a condenser.
So condensers don't need vents now?  How do you think they get rid of heat? 

Take a look at the back of your fridge.
They get rid of heat by slowing down agitation of matter. That's how the Earth does it.

So slowing down the agitation of matter stops the production of heat but that doesn't answer the question.
It answers the question perfectly well. What are you having trouble with?
I'm having trouble with condensers have to do with anything? Condensers change gases to liquids by transfer of heat. What does that have to do with the ice dome not melting?

Condensers change liquids to gas by pressure.  Heat being taken in or removed is simply a by-product.

An unavoidable byproduct. One that scepti's ice dome isn't immune to.

So, you admit that you are wrong.  Great to hear that an RE'er finally admits that. 

?

rottingroom

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2014, 05:58:41 PM »

A cooling system? There are plenty of examples of cooling systems. Most easily, we can talk about examples with computing. There are fans and liquid cooling systems and so on. In any case, all these cooling systems require some sort of vent.
Or a condenser.
So condensers don't need vents now?  How do you think they get rid of heat? 

Take a look at the back of your fridge.
They get rid of heat by slowing down agitation of matter. That's how the Earth does it.

So slowing down the agitation of matter stops the production of heat but that doesn't answer the question.
It answers the question perfectly well. What are you having trouble with?
I'm having trouble with condensers have to do with anything? Condensers change gases to liquids by transfer of heat. What does that have to do with the ice dome not melting?

Condensers change liquids to gas by pressure.  Heat being taken in or removed is simply a by-product.

An unavoidable byproduct. One that scepti's ice dome isn't immune to.

So, you admit that you are wrong.  Great to hear that an RE'er finally admits that.

???

I said that condensers require a vent which is quite consistent with what you said. I know you are desperate to win a debate. Keep at it kid. You'll get there one day. Just as soon as you argue round.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2014, 06:05:25 PM »

Scepti if you "slow down the agitation of matter" you are taking the energy out of that matter, which has to go somewhere. Heat naturally flows from a warmer place to a cooler place. To move heat the other way takes more energy and the end result is that the system as a whole gets warmer. Any system that could move heat from a cooler place to a warmer place without any expenditure of energy violates the second law of thermodynamics, which is not possible.

In a closed system entropy can only increase. Your Earth is a perfectly closed system. So you can never cool it.
Ok let me try and explain.

At sea level, we know that when the sun is over us we get hot. We get hot because the sun has caused the molecules to get excited or agitate. What has really happened is the molecules are being expanded making the pressure less because more expanded molecules mean less molecules per area.

Those molecules are agitating around your skin. It's like a someone giving you a body friction burn. Your body immediately sweats to cool it.
Cooling it is simply stopping the agitation of molecules are making them more dense and more dormant, meaning less movement.

Higher up in the sky, the molecules are already much more expanded and because of this their agitation is not severe like it was at sea level dense pressure. The higher they go, the more expanded they go and even less agitation can occur, meaning it's cold to our perception.

Venting isn't really anything like people think in the grand scheme of things. People just assume that venting is forcing heat away but that heat has tio go somewhere. It doesn't have to go anywhere because all heat is, is the expansion and contraction of matter.

If you rub your hands together you feel them get hot. As soon as you stop rubbing them together, they cool down...to your perception. They cool down because you have stopped agitating matter so it reverts back to it's original form now that you took the energy away.
The sun does the same. As soon as it moves away, the agitation slows down. It doesn't have to vent.

Can you understand what I'm trying to tell you?

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2014, 06:05:54 PM »

A cooling system? There are plenty of examples of cooling systems. Most easily, we can talk about examples with computing. There are fans and liquid cooling systems and so on. In any case, all these cooling systems require some sort of vent.
Or a condenser.
So condensers don't need vents now?  How do you think they get rid of heat? 

Take a look at the back of your fridge.
They get rid of heat by slowing down agitation of matter. That's how the Earth does it.

So slowing down the agitation of matter stops the production of heat but that doesn't answer the question.
It answers the question perfectly well. What are you having trouble with?
I'm having trouble with condensers have to do with anything? Condensers change gases to liquids by transfer of heat. What does that have to do with the ice dome not melting?

Condensers change liquids to gas by pressure.  Heat being taken in or removed is simply a by-product.

An unavoidable byproduct. One that scepti's ice dome isn't immune to.

So, you admit that you are wrong.  Great to hear that an RE'er finally admits that.

???

I said that condensers require a vent which is quite consistent with what you said. I know you are desperate to win a debate. Keep at it kid. You'll get there one day. Just as soon as you argue round.

So, now, condensers do not work by pressure?  What are you RE'ers going to make up next? 

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rottingroom

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2014, 06:08:07 PM »

A cooling system? There are plenty of examples of cooling systems. Most easily, we can talk about examples with computing. There are fans and liquid cooling systems and so on. In any case, all these cooling systems require some sort of vent.
Or a condenser.
So condensers don't need vents now?  How do you think they get rid of heat? 

Take a look at the back of your fridge.
They get rid of heat by slowing down agitation of matter. That's how the Earth does it.

So slowing down the agitation of matter stops the production of heat but that doesn't answer the question.
It answers the question perfectly well. What are you having trouble with?
I'm having trouble with condensers have to do with anything? Condensers change gases to liquids by transfer of heat. What does that have to do with the ice dome not melting?

Condensers change liquids to gas by pressure.  Heat being taken in or removed is simply a by-product.

An unavoidable byproduct. One that scepti's ice dome isn't immune to.

So, you admit that you are wrong.  Great to hear that an RE'er finally admits that.

???

I said that condensers require a vent which is quite consistent with what you said. I know you are desperate to win a debate. Keep at it kid. You'll get there one day. Just as soon as you argue round.

So, now, condensers do not work by pressure?  What are you RE'ers going to make up next? 

I'm not saying that at all.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2014, 06:10:16 PM »

A cooling system? There are plenty of examples of cooling systems. Most easily, we can talk about examples with computing. There are fans and liquid cooling systems and so on. In any case, all these cooling systems require some sort of vent.
Or a condenser.
So condensers don't need vents now?  How do you think they get rid of heat? 

Take a look at the back of your fridge.
They get rid of heat by slowing down agitation of matter. That's how the Earth does it.

So slowing down the agitation of matter stops the production of heat but that doesn't answer the question.
It answers the question perfectly well. What are you having trouble with?
I'm having trouble with condensers have to do with anything? Condensers change gases to liquids by transfer of heat. What does that have to do with the ice dome not melting?

Condensers change liquids to gas by pressure.  Heat being taken in or removed is simply a by-product.

An unavoidable byproduct. One that scepti's ice dome isn't immune to.

So, you admit that you are wrong.  Great to hear that an RE'er finally admits that.

???

I said that condensers require a vent which is quite consistent with what you said. I know you are desperate to win a debate. Keep at it kid. You'll get there one day. Just as soon as you argue round.

So, now, condensers do not work by pressure?  What are you RE'ers going to make up next? 

I'm not saying that at all.

Yes, actually you did, unless I have forgotten the ancient art of reading English. 

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rottingroom

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #43 on: July 18, 2014, 06:35:17 PM »
It's highly possible that you have.

Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #44 on: July 18, 2014, 07:18:04 PM »
A cooling system? There are plenty of examples of cooling systems. Most easily, we can talk about examples with computing. There are fans and liquid cooling systems and so on. In any case, all these cooling systems require some sort of vent.
Or a condenser.
You do understand that a condenser does not get rid of heat, right? The heat that the system wants to "shed" must go somewhere. I assume that FET abides by the Laws of Thermodynamics.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2014, 07:57:13 PM »
How do satellites get rid of all of the heat from the sun?  They are in a vacuum, after all. 

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Shmeggley

  • 1909
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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2014, 08:09:35 PM »

Scepti if you "slow down the agitation of matter" you are taking the energy out of that matter, which has to go somewhere. Heat naturally flows from a warmer place to a cooler place. To move heat the other way takes more energy and the end result is that the system as a whole gets warmer. Any system that could move heat from a cooler place to a warmer place without any expenditure of energy violates the second law of thermodynamics, which is not possible.

In a closed system entropy can only increase. Your Earth is a perfectly closed system. So you can never cool it.
Ok let me try and explain.

At sea level, we know that when the sun is over us we get hot. We get hot because the sun has caused the molecules to get excited or agitate. What has really happened is the molecules are being expanded making the pressure less because more expanded molecules mean less molecules per area.
Sort of. What molecules, the air molecules? If you heat them up the air volume will get bigger yes. The pressure won't necessarily get less. Are you saying that if you light a fire in the room and it gets warmer, you will see the barometer go up? I don't think I've seen this happen
Quote
Those molecules are agitating around your skin. It's like a someone giving you a body friction burn. Your body immediately sweats to cool it.
Cooling it is simply stopping the agitation of molecules are making them more dense and more dormant, meaning less movement.
The sweat cools you because the most energetic molecules fly away from you taking their energy with them. I know this is true because when it's really humid out it feels hotter and the sweat just stays on you. If you put the dehumidifier on, even without changing the temperature of the air it feels cooler because the sweat is drying off you. So yes, your body's molecules get less agitated because their energy has been taken away with the fastest moving water molecules.
Quote
Higher up in the sky, the molecules are already much more expanded and because of this their agitation is not severe like it was at sea level dense pressure. The higher they go, the more expanded they go and even less agitation can occur, meaning it's cold to our perception.
No. It's cold because there's less pressure and less air to insulate your body heat. Those molecules up there are actually moving the fastest, because if they were moving slower they'd stay down on the ground
Quote
Venting isn't really anything like people think in the grand scheme of things. People just assume that venting is forcing heat away but that heat has tio go somewhere. It doesn't have to go anywhere because all heat is, is the expansion and contraction of matter.
No again. Heat is energy. Energy is what makes the molecules jiggle and push against each other causing expansion.
Quote
If you rub your hands together you feel them get hot. As soon as you stop rubbing them together, they cool down...to your perception. They cool down because you have stopped agitating matter so it reverts back to it's original form now that you took the energy away.
No. Some of the energy from your muscles gets transferred to the palms of your hands. When you stop rubbing, the heat gets lost to the environment. You can tell because putting things that absorb heat faster than air, like water or ice, will cause your hands to cool off faster.
Quote
The sun does the same. As soon as it moves away, the agitation slows down. It doesn't have to vent.

Can you understand what I'm trying to tell you?

No I can't understand it, because what you're saying has been demonstrated to be false. Why do you think coffee stays hot in an insulated thermos for longer than in a mug on the table? It's because you've put it somewhere where energy can't get out easily. Both volumes of coffee had the same amount of agitation to begin with, the same amount of energy. The coffee in the open mug however, lets water molecules escape and carry away energy. You can see this by the mist rising off the surface. The glass or clay of the mug itself gets hot, because energy has flowed into it and caused its molecules to jiggle faster. The thermos on the other hand leaves no opening for the water to evaporate the heat away. The construction leaves a gap or some foam between the coffee and the outside of the thermos that heat doesn't flow into easily, and you can feel that the outside of the thermos stays cool for a long time.

Your dome is just like the thermos. It's like you put water in the thermos and threw a red hot iron ball in with it, then closed the lid. If that ball is hot enough, like the Sun, there's no place for the heat to go, and inside will eventually be all steam (plus the cooled off iron ball). Only in your perfectly insulated dome, no heat will EVER escape, and eventually everything heats up to the same temperature as the Sun. That's why your model can never work, because the 2nd law of thermodynamics, which is as proven a fact as there ever will be, is never violated.
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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Shmeggley

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #47 on: July 18, 2014, 08:10:11 PM »
How do satellites get rid of all of the heat from the sun?  They are in a vacuum, after all.

I thought you were an engineer jroa.
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #48 on: July 18, 2014, 08:12:31 PM »
How do satellites get rid of all of the heat from the sun?  They are in a vacuum, after all.

I thought you were an engineer jroa.

Yes.  Thermal energy needs to go someplace.  Do they beam it away or something? 

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Shmeggley

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2014, 08:15:11 PM »
How do satellites get rid of all of the heat from the sun?  They are in a vacuum, after all.

I thought you were an engineer jroa.

Yes.  Thermal energy needs to go someplace.  Do they beam it away or something?

What kind of engineer are you? Did you take any physics classes?
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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macrohard

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #50 on: July 18, 2014, 08:17:58 PM »
How do satellites get rid of all of the heat from the sun?  They are in a vacuum, after all.

Radiation

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Rama Set

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2014, 08:20:13 PM »
How do satellites get rid of all of the heat from the sun?  They are in a vacuum, after all.

I thought you were an engineer jroa.

Yes.  Thermal energy needs to go someplace.  Do they beam it away or something?

Here is a good starting place:

http://space.stackexchange.com/questions/3083/how-is-heat-dissipated-from-a-satellite-or-any-metal-in-space
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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macrohard

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #52 on: July 18, 2014, 08:25:36 PM »
Not only do refrigerators dump heat into the environment, they dump more than they extract from within the refrigerator itself.

In other words, the heat energy removed from making ice cube is dumped elsewhere.  That energy would be enough to melt an ice cube and then some.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #53 on: July 18, 2014, 08:41:38 PM »
How do satellites get rid of all of the heat from the sun?  They are in a vacuum, after all.

I thought you were an engineer jroa.

Yes.  Thermal energy needs to go someplace.  Do they beam it away or something?

What kind of engineer are you? Did you take any physics classes?

Yes, and thermodynamics classes. 

Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #54 on: July 18, 2014, 08:49:11 PM »
How do satellites get rid of all of the heat from the sun?  They are in a vacuum, after all.

I thought you were an engineer jroa.

Yes.  Thermal energy needs to go someplace.  Do they beam it away or something?

What kind of engineer are you? Did you take any physics classes?

Yes, and thermodynamics classes.
Unclear why you ask here and not just look it up.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2014, 08:52:50 PM »
How do satellites get rid of all of the heat from the sun?  They are in a vacuum, after all.

I thought you were an engineer jroa.

Yes.  Thermal energy needs to go someplace.  Do they beam it away or something?

What kind of engineer are you? Did you take any physics classes?

Yes, and thermodynamics classes.
Unclear why you ask here and not just look it up.

I made a statement, not a question. 

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Rama Set

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #56 on: July 18, 2014, 08:56:43 PM »
Inquisitive was likely referring to your ongoing questioning of how a satellite might get rid of excess thermal energy.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2014, 08:57:47 PM »
Perhaps you can give a reasonable answer then? 

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Rama Set

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2014, 09:03:32 PM »
Perhaps you can give a reasonable answer then?

I already linked to one.  Please note you are evading the question.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Meteors and Comets
« Reply #59 on: July 18, 2014, 09:04:54 PM »
I am the one asking the question.  How could I possibly ask it and evade it at the same time?