Winds~

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Winds~
« on: July 07, 2014, 05:16:23 AM »
Quite a beautiful model IMO:

http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-229.03,-12.93,356

(Click and drag to view different parts of the spherical earth and use mousewheel to zoom in/out)

The RE model is clear about what causes winds and why air is deflected to the left and right in the southern and northern hemispheres respectively. What is the FE explanation for this, aside from turtle farts and/or the mysterious, ever-changing-depending-on-what-you-need-to-attempt-to-explain-away aether?

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ausGeoff

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2014, 04:33:20 AM »

The RE model is clear about what causes winds and why air is deflected to the left and right in the southern and northern hemispheres respectively. What is the FE explanation for this, aside from turtle farts and/or the mysterious, ever-changing-depending-on-what-you-need-to-attempt-to-explain-away aether?

Whatever their answer is, it'll inevitably have something to do with refraction and/or denpressure (depending which FE responds).

       ;D


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Pongo

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2014, 05:54:42 AM »
I don't get it.  Is that supposed to prove a round-earth?  If the programmer put it on a cube would it prove a cube-earth?

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Rama Set

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2014, 06:11:50 AM »

If you ignore all of the text in the post can you assume whatever you want?

I don't get it.  Is that supposed to prove a round-earth?  If the programmer put it on a cube would it prove a cube-earth?

Apparently you can!
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Re: Winds~
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2014, 08:22:14 AM »
I don't get it. 
That's not really our problem.

Quote
Is that supposed to prove a round-earth?  If the programmer put it on a cube would it prove a cube-earth?
It wouldn't prove anything, but neither would it work as a model.

The point is that here is yet another fully working model based on a spherical earth.  If the earth were flat it would not work.  Yet it does.  Strange, eh?
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Pongo

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2014, 07:32:21 PM »

If you ignore all of the text in the post can you assume whatever you want?

I don't get it.  Is that supposed to prove a round-earth?  If the programmer put it on a cube would it prove a cube-earth?

Apparently you can!

I reread it and I still don't see how it proves a round-earth. If I say aliens live in Phoenix then post a cartoon of them walking about, I would hardly think that proves anything. This seems to be nothing more than that. 

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Rama Set

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2014, 10:13:43 PM »
The OP is not about proving a RE, although accurate modelling of global wind patterns is a point for it.  The OP is about FEs take on wind patterns.  Anything to add?
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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ausGeoff

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2014, 06:55:30 AM »
I don't get it.
Uh... that's more than a little obvious my friend.

Quote
Is that supposed to prove a round-earth?  If the programmer put it on a cube would it prove a cube-earth?
We're not talking about proving a round earth.  We're talking about the cause of surface winds, and why they're different north and south of the equator.  Have you not heard of the Coriolis effect?

These wind patterns are caused by the geometry of the earth;  the shape of the earth wasn't caused by the winds LOL.  Your powers of logic are a tad shaky I'm afraid;  you're transposing cause and effect.

And no; the programmer couldn't have modelled this on a cube—for more than obvious geometrical limitations apparent to anybody vaguely familiar with topology and/or geophysics.

At any rate Pongo, please feel free to post your flat earth representation of the wind patterns on your flat earth model.  I'd be interested to see how they work in comparison to the established round earth model.

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Pongo

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2014, 07:10:42 AM »

If you ignore all of the text in the post can you assume whatever you want?

I don't get it.  Is that supposed to prove a round-earth?  If the programmer put it on a cube would it prove a cube-earth?

Apparently you can!

I don't get it. 
That's not really our problem.

I don't get it.
Uh... that's more than a little obvious my friend.

This is why people come to FES and become flat-earthers.  I'm trying to alleviate my ignorance through calm discussion and you three chide, mock, and chastise me.  You round-earthers come across as a bitter and world-beaten bunch.  If you were in a galaxy far far away, the emperor would deny you apprenticeship for having too much anger.

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Rama Set

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2014, 07:13:09 AM »
So they don't become FEers because of the evidence?  Got it.

If you had not put your facetious comment about a cube earth in there, then I would have remained neutral as well.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Pongo

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2014, 07:17:55 AM »
The question wasn't an attack. I was asking how the shape of the object the wind patterns were on proved the shape.  Reread it but take off your hate-tinted glasses first and you'll see what I mean.

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Rama Set

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2014, 07:21:06 AM »
The question wasn't an attack. I was asking how the shape of the object the wind patterns were on proved the shape.  Reread it but take off your hate-tinted glasses first and you'll see what I mean.

I never said it was an attack did I?  I said you were facetious.  I also would not characterize what I posted as an attack but rather as chiding, although you are free to take it as an attack.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Pongo

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2014, 07:43:38 AM »
I also would not characterize what I posted as an attack but rather as chiding, although you are free to take it as an attack.

I didn't say your comment was an attack.  You said your comment was a chiding and I said your comment was (hold on... scrolling to the post...) a chiding!!!  Jesus, rif.org.

Re: Winds~
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2014, 07:45:19 AM »
I also would not characterize what I posted as an attack but rather as chiding, although you are free to take it as an attack.

I didn't say your comment was an attack.  You said your comment was a chiding and I said your comment was (hold on... scrolling to the post...) a chiding!!!  Jesus, rif.org.
If anyone comes across as angry and bitter, it's you guys.
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ausGeoff

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2014, 07:48:49 AM »
I was asking how the shape of the object the wind patterns were on proved the shape. 

They don't Pongo.  The spherical shape of the earth proves the patterns of the wind, which can be measured at any ground station on the planet.

And I'm still awaiting your flat earth diagram of the planet's variable surface wind patterns, and an explanation of how they're caused.



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Pongo

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2014, 09:51:56 AM »
And I'm still awaiting your flat earth diagram of the planet's variable surface wind patterns, and an explanation of how they're caused.

That's quite a request.  Posting here isn't my day job nor do I have the requisite skills or data to make such a map.  Perhaps we can gather it on our expedition (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61797.0#.U77C0JRdWGc) if you would like to help with funding.

On a side note, it seems that none of you made that fancy map in the OP.  Looks like it was just taken from somewhere else and posted here.  Quite the request indeed to put in zero effort then demand that I make a comparable map for flat-earth theory.




http://www.amazon.com/The-Colour-Magic-Discworld-Novels/dp/1856958000

I demand that you write a comparable series of novels named "SphereWorld."  I'll wait.

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rottingroom

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2014, 09:58:10 AM »
And I'm still awaiting your flat earth diagram of the planet's variable surface wind patterns, and an explanation of how they're caused.

That's quite a request.  Posting here isn't my day job nor do I have the requisite skills or data to make such a map.  Perhaps we can gather it on our expedition (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61797.0#.U77C0JRdWGc) if you would like to help with funding.

On a side note, it seems that none of you made that fancy map in the OP.  Looks like it was just taken from somewhere else and posted here.  Quite the request indeed to put in zero effort then demand that I make a comparable map for flat-earth theory.




http://www.amazon.com/The-Colour-Magic-Discworld-Novels/dp/1856958000

I demand that you write a comparable series of novels named "SphereWorld."  I'll wait.

To make a model like this it requires data put together by weather observers all over the world. I am one of those weather observers. I take readings of the wind aboard ships in the Pacific Ocean and submit them online to a site called J-OBS which is just a part of the pool of data that entities like NOAA use to put things like this together.

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Pongo

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2014, 10:02:44 AM »
So you're suggesting that we need to start another fundraiser?  Seems quite outside the scope of our expedition.

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rottingroom

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2014, 10:04:26 AM »
So you're suggesting that we need to start another fundraiser?  Seems quite outside the scope of our expedition.

I didn't comment on your efforts. I'm just saying that there is someone here that actually does participate in what makes models like these possible.

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Pongo

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2014, 10:06:10 AM »
So you're suggesting that we need to start another fundraiser?  Seems quite outside the scope of our expedition.

I didn't comment on your efforts. I'm just saying that there is someone here that actually does participate in what makes models like these possible.

Right, and I'm saying that to meet AusGeoff's request will require a massive undertaking.  He seems to think I can have it for him by the end of the business day.

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rottingroom

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2014, 10:08:45 AM »
So you're suggesting that we need to start another fundraiser?  Seems quite outside the scope of our expedition.

I didn't comment on your efforts. I'm just saying that there is someone here that actually does participate in what makes models like these possible.

Right, and I'm saying that to meet AusGeoff's request will require a massive undertaking.  He seems to think I can have it for him by the end of the business day.

I would agree. It's a nearly impossible task but I don't think he is eluding to it being so just because of the amount of effort involved.

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Pongo

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2014, 10:12:31 AM »
I dunno, he is saying things like, "Still waiting on FE wind map."  Seems to imply he really wants one created.

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rottingroom

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2014, 10:14:07 AM »
I dunno, he is saying things like, "Still waiting on FE wind map."  Seems to imply he really wants one created.

Well he probably does but he's also saying that cause he knows that it can't be done, which again, isn't just because it is difficult.

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ausGeoff

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2014, 03:37:27 AM »
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And I'm still awaiting your flat earth diagram of the planet's variable surface wind patterns, and an explanation of how they're caused.
Quote
That's quite a request.  Posting here isn't my day job nor do I have the requisite skills or data to make such a map.
I understand all of that.  I wasn't asking you to personally draw up a map of the planetary wind patters—probably few of us are capable of such a task.  What I was asking you to do was to post a diagram sourced from the repository of the flat earth society(s).  Surely the flat earthers must have some knowledge of what would produce these observed weather patterns—but on a flat plane which isn't rotating?  So... your link is?

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On a side note, it seems that none of you made that fancy map in the OP.  Looks like it was just taken from somewhere else and posted here.  Quite the request indeed to put in zero effort then demand that I make a comparable map for flat-earth theory.
Uh... are you serious?  As far as I know, posting an image which somebody else has produced doesn't automatically make it erroneous and/or bogus.  Is that truly your best rebuttal—rather than posting a flat earth diagram of a similar thing?  You commit a common logical fallacy—as do many of your peers on this forum—in trying to prove your own theories by demolishing your opponent's evidence—instead of providing viable evidence in support of your claims.

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I demand that you write a comparable series of novels named "SphereWorld."  I'll wait.
Terry Pratchett's already done it.  "Discworld" is a comic fantasy book series set on the fictional Discworld, a flat disc balanced on the backs of four elephants which, in turn, stand on the back of a giant turtle.

This is a representation of Pratchett's Discworld:



And I'm sure people will notice the similarities with this map and the map the flat earthers claim as their own  (the round earth UN logo).




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Pongo

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2014, 05:28:37 AM »
Where's my round-world version of Pratchett's novels AusGeoff?  I'm still waiting.

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ausGeoff

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2014, 06:06:42 AM »
Where's my round-world version of Pratchett's novels AusGeoff?  I'm still waiting.

And on a more serious note, I'm still awaiting your diagram of the flat earth's variable surface wind patterns, and an explanation of how they're caused on a planar, non-rotating planet.

Is there any particular reason you can't address my request?  Do you not have access to such information?  And if not, then why not?

It's obvious that jroa and you have got your heads together at some stage (alts maybe?) and agreed to answer nonsensically whenever you're backed into a corner without an answer to a reasonable question from any round earther.


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Rama Set

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2014, 06:21:28 AM »
Where's my round-world version of Pratchett's novels AusGeoff?  I'm still waiting.

I gotta agree with this. You can't foist a burden of proof on someone and then badger them for evidence to back up a claim they did not make. It is obnoxious socially and fallacious from a discourse point of view.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Pongo

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2014, 09:49:35 AM »
Where's my round-world version of Pratchett's novels AusGeoff?  I'm still waiting.
Is there any particular reason you can't address my request?  Do you not have access to such information?  And if not, then why not?

I did address your request.  Please reread the posts.  However, I'm still waiting on your series of round-world novels.  Where are they?

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markjo

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2014, 10:10:05 AM »
Where's my round-world version of Pratchett's novels AusGeoff?  I'm still waiting.
Is there any particular reason you can't address my request?  Do you not have access to such information?  And if not, then why not?

I did address your request.  Please reread the posts.  However, I'm still waiting on your series of round-world novels.  Where are they?
This thread is about flat earth winds, not round earth novels.  Please stay on topic.
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Pongo

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Re: Winds~
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2014, 10:13:39 AM »
Shush you.  I'm trying to illustrate a point.