A glass dome in the sky? Really?

Quote from: rottingroom on July 10, 2014, 11:20:47 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 11:17:11 AM

Quote from: rottingroom on July 10, 2014, 11:00:07 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 10:56:26 AM

Quote from: rottingroom on July 10, 2014, 10:28:31 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 10:26:28 AM

Quote from: rottingroom on July 10, 2014, 10:16:33 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 10:10:52 AM

Quote from: Shmeggley on July 10, 2014, 09:43:22 AM

Here's what I know that I didn't need to read any fancy science books to find out:

- No kind of ice I've ever seen or heard of naturally forms into a perfect mirror
- When I do see a regular bathroom mirror and the light is on, I see a reflection of myself and the room, not a featureless blue

Is your bathroom filled with helium and hydrogen that is fully expanded?
You are at sea level pressure, why  would you even try and equate that to the very top of the sky?

So the bluish reflection is literally a reflection of that helium and hydrogen yet at night, we don't see reflections of city lights, we see stars. The same stars that were around before cities were.

City lights are not strong enough to be relfected back. the reflections are from the centre of the Earth and are focused up and out to the dome. Our eye sight or telescopes aren't that good to pick up piddly city lights.

but the lights that do cause appearance of the stars are strong enough even though we can't find where they are coming from in a plane?

You can't see where they are coming from because they are invisible to your eye from the centre until they hit something they can reflect off, which is the dome.
You can't any light unless it's reflecting of something.

If someone shone a torch side on to you, you only see the bean because of the matter in the air, like dust and water vapour etc that it reflects off.

lolwut?

We can see city lights just fine and they are less bright than your pretend light. This makes no sense. Is any of this going to ever make sense?

You can see city lights from a low flying plane. What's your point here?

That much brighter lights than city light should be much easier to see.

What do you mean brighter than city lights. What are you talking about?

Quote from: Shmeggley on July 10, 2014, 11:28:51 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 10:28:19 AM

Quote from: Shmeggley on July 10, 2014, 10:22:58 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 10:10:52 AM

Quote from: Shmeggley on July 10, 2014, 09:43:22 AM

Here's what I know that I didn't need to read any fancy science books to find out:

- No kind of ice I've ever seen or heard of naturally forms into a perfect mirror
- When I do see a regular bathroom mirror and the light is on, I see a reflection of myself and the room, not a featureless blue

Is your bathroom filled with helium and hydrogen that is fully expanded?
You are at sea level pressure, why  would you even try and equate that to the very top of the sky?

And how do you know what the conditions are at the top of the sky?

By how things work down here with experiments and how we sort elements by man made means. All we are doing is what Earth does naturally from bottom to top.

What experiments are you referring to that show Hydrogen and Helium causing a blue colour down here?

I never said helium and hydrogen cause a blue colour. Where did you get this from?

I never said helium and hydrogen cause a blue colour. Where did you get this from?

Quote from: Shmeggley on July 10, 2014, 09:43:22 AM

- When I do see a regular bathroom mirror and the light is on, I see a reflection of myself and the room, not a featureless blue

Is your bathroom filled with helium and hydrogen that is fully expanded?
You are at sea level pressure, why  would you even try and equate that to the very top of the sky?

You said that these pretend lights are not visible unless they are reflected.

I said that we can city lights just fine.

You acknowledged that we can see city lights from a low flying plane.

These lights do not need to be reflected.

Your pretend light is presumably brighter, yet it needs to be reflected.

None of this makes any sense.

Answer my question about sun spots.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 11:33:51 AM

Quote from: Shmeggley on July 10, 2014, 11:28:51 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 10:28:19 AM

Quote from: Shmeggley on July 10, 2014, 10:22:58 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 10:10:52 AM

Quote from: Shmeggley on July 10, 2014, 09:43:22 AM

Here's what I know that I didn't need to read any fancy science books to find out:

- No kind of ice I've ever seen or heard of naturally forms into a perfect mirror
- When I do see a regular bathroom mirror and the light is on, I see a reflection of myself and the room, not a featureless blue

Is your bathroom filled with helium and hydrogen that is fully expanded?
You are at sea level pressure, why  would you even try and equate that to the very top of the sky?

And how do you know what the conditions are at the top of the sky?

By how things work down here with experiments and how we sort elements by man made means. All we are doing is what Earth does naturally from bottom to top.

What experiments are you referring to that show Hydrogen and Helium causing a blue colour down here?

I never said helium and hydrogen cause a blue colour. Where did you get this from?

You responded to a question about why the color is blue with some crap about helium and hydrogen. What other conclusion should we draw from your ramblings. Answer the question then. Why is the sky blue?

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 11:33:51 AM

I never said helium and hydrogen cause a blue colour. Where did you get this from?

Weird because it looks like you did:

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 10:10:52 AM

Quote from: Shmeggley on July 10, 2014, 09:43:22 AM

- When I do see a regular bathroom mirror and the light is on, I see a reflection of myself and the room, not a featureless blue

Is your bathroom filled with helium and hydrogen that is fully expanded?
You are at sea level pressure, why  would you even try and equate that to the very top of the sky?

City lights are not strong enough to be relfected back. the reflections are from the centre of the Earth and are focused up and out to the dome. Our eye sight or telescopes aren't that good to pick up piddly city lights.

Quote from: rottingroom on July 10, 2014, 11:40:15 AM

You said that these pretend lights are not visible unless they are reflected.

I said that we can city lights just fine.

You acknowledged that we can see city lights from a low flying plane.

These lights do not need to be reflected.

Your pretend light is presumably brighter, yet it needs to be reflected.

None of this makes any sense.

Answer my question about sun spots.

What do you think city lights are reflecting off? Have a serous think about it if you think light doesn't need reflection.

What sun spots are these?
When have you see sun spots through your telescope?

The only spots you would ever likely see are negative wavelengths of light blocking out small areas if that.
Show me some genuine sun spots.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 10:26:28 AM

City lights are not strong enough to be relfected back. the reflections are from the centre of the Earth and are focused up and out to the dome. Our eye sight or telescopes aren't that good to pick up piddly city lights.

Are you saying that there is a perfect vacuum between the center of the earth where these lights originate from and the ice dome?  If not, then it seems that this light should illuminate various particles suspended within the atmosphere as the light travels from the center of the earth to the ice dome.  In fact, it seems that if you're right, then we should see stars projected onto clouds at night.  Why does this not happen?

Quote from: markjo on July 10, 2014, 12:06:28 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 10:26:28 AM

City lights are not strong enough to be relfected back. the reflections are from the centre of the Earth and are focused up and out to the dome. Our eye sight or telescopes aren't that good to pick up piddly city lights.

Are you saying that there is a perfect vacuum between the center of the earth where these lights originate from and the ice dome?  If not, then it seems that this light should illuminate various particles suspended within the atmosphere as the light travels from the center of the earth to the ice dome.  In fact, it seems that if you're right, then we should see stars projected onto clouds at night.  Why does this not happen?

The light is emitted through crystals as I said before, in the centre of Earth. It's a super low pressure that is filled all the time, like a vortex.
The light waves through those crystals converge over the centre and are reflected again and again around the dome.
The main source  light (the sun) is the lagest emitted light.
There are no clouds in the centre, just around it, like where we all live around the circle, so they're hardly going to be projected onto clouds.

Fine... No boiling, but rapid melting would happen. How does it help you? After looking up charts for the critical curves of helium I have forgotten that it is the very few materials discovered which are superfluids in very low temperatures and pressures, not gaseous. Massive fail on my side. But what does it have to do with keeping the dome solid? You have just posted a video where you claim that instead of being gaseous in low pressure, it would be a superfluid. How does it change the fact that such a dome would fall apart? Try to look up solid helium and zero point energy and think for yourself whether this was all made up when some scientists heard your claim that the dome is made of H and He, or was in works for a long, long time.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 12:20:21 PM

Quote from: markjo on July 10, 2014, 12:06:28 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 10:26:28 AM

City lights are not strong enough to be relfected back. the reflections are from the centre of the Earth and are focused up and out to the dome. Our eye sight or telescopes aren't that good to pick up piddly city lights.

Are you saying that there is a perfect vacuum between the center of the earth where these lights originate from and the ice dome?  If not, then it seems that this light should illuminate various particles suspended within the atmosphere as the light travels from the center of the earth to the ice dome.  In fact, it seems that if you're right, then we should see stars projected onto clouds at night.  Why does this not happen?

The light is emitted through crystals as I said before, in the centre of Earth. It's a super low pressure that is filled all the time, like a vortex.
The light waves through those crystals converge over the centre and are reflected again and again around the dome.
The main source  light (the sun) is the lagest emitted light.
There are no clouds in the centre, just around it, like where we all live around the circle, so they're hardly going to be projected onto clouds.

Refresh my memory, where is this place again?

You better find more bubblegum then.

Quote from: rottingroom on July 10, 2014, 12:22:04 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 12:20:21 PM

Quote from: markjo on July 10, 2014, 12:06:28 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 10:26:28 AM

City lights are not strong enough to be relfected back. the reflections are from the centre of the Earth and are focused up and out to the dome. Our eye sight or telescopes aren't that good to pick up piddly city lights.

Are you saying that there is a perfect vacuum between the center of the earth where these lights originate from and the ice dome?  If not, then it seems that this light should illuminate various particles suspended within the atmosphere as the light travels from the center of the earth to the ice dome.  In fact, it seems that if you're right, then we should see stars projected onto clouds at night.  Why does this not happen?

The light is emitted through crystals as I said before, in the centre of Earth. It's a super low pressure that is filled all the time, like a vortex.
The light waves through those crystals converge over the centre and are reflected again and again around the dome.
The main source  light (the sun) is the lagest emitted light.
There are no clouds in the centre, just around it, like where we all live around the circle, so they're hardly going to be projected onto clouds.

Refresh my memory, where is this place again?

I can't be bothered to play your game. When you start being a bit more serious I'll oblige. I'm not wasting too much more time typing on you when you ask that question of which you are clearly in the mind of knowing.

The light is emitted through crystals as I said before, in the centre of Earth. It's a super low pressure that is filled all the time, like a vortex.

The light waves through those crystals converge over the centre and are reflected again and again around the dome.The main source  light (the sun) is the lagest emitted light.
There are no clouds in the centre, just around it, like where we all live around the circle, so they're hardly going to be projected onto clouds.

But don't those light waves have to travel through the atmosphere in order to get to the dome?

Quote from: Shmeggley on July 10, 2014, 11:28:51 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 10:28:19 AM

Quote from: Shmeggley on July 10, 2014, 10:22:58 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 10, 2014, 10:10:52 AM

Quote from: Shmeggley on July 10, 2014, 09:43:22 AM

Here's what I know that I didn't need to read any fancy science books to find out:

- No kind of ice I've ever seen or heard of naturally forms into a perfect mirror
- When I do see a regular bathroom mirror and the light is on, I see a reflection of myself and the room, not a featureless blue

Is your bathroom filled with helium and hydrogen that is fully expanded?
You are at sea level pressure, why  would you even try and equate that to the very top of the sky?

And how do you know what the conditions are at the top of the sky?

By how things work down here with experiments and how we sort elements by man made means. All we are doing is what Earth does naturally from bottom to top.

What experiments are you referring to that show Hydrogen and Helium causing a blue colour down here?

I never said helium and hydrogen cause a blue colour. Where did you get this from?

@scepti, in your "model" why do we have sunsets?  Can you draw a diagram to explain.

Once you have done that you can explain why we have seasons.

A vacuum has no temperature. It where everything ceases to move.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on July 11, 2014, 01:43:02 AM

@scepti, in your "model" why do we have sunsets?  Can you draw a diagram to explain.

Once you have done that you can explain why we have seasons.

I'll draw a diagram later.

The sunsets are when the reflected light (sun) moves over the dome, away from your view through the thick atmosphere.

As for seasons. It's because the super glowing carbon at the centre loses and gains energy which drops and raises it.
This causes changes in the waves through the crystal prisms causing the light to shift angles of reflection.

Quote

A vacuum has no temperature. It where everything ceases to move.

Correct, vacuum has no temperature. But things in vacuum DO have temperature, why not? Temperature has nothing to do with what surrounds a piece of matter, it is directly connected to the particles' kinetic energy. Actually stuff already present in vacuum in its stable state(I mean like a piece of metal, for which the preferred state in 0Pa and reasonably low temperatures is solid) will loose heat way slower than when surrounded by anything colder than it. If the state is stable, then no heat will be consumed in phase changes. There would also be no "lower temperature" molecules floating around to take some kinetic energy. The only way to loose energy would be through radiation, and it is a very weak effect compared to others.

Anyways, how would the dome form at all, as some elements require high pressure to become solids at all, even at extremely low temperatures?

And another thing, about your "glowing carbon" stuff. If it is in the center - why cannot we find it? There is no such stuff at the pole.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 11, 2014, 02:05:01 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on July 11, 2014, 01:43:02 AM

@scepti, in your "model" why do we have sunsets?  Can you draw a diagram to explain.

Once you have done that you can explain why we have seasons.

I'll draw a diagram later.

No, you won't.  You can't.

Quote

The sunsets are when the reflected light (sun) moves over the dome, away from your view through the thick atmosphere.

How is the sun  moving?  Why do the periods of light and dark change over the year, apart from for people on the equator?

Quote

As for seasons. It's because the super glowing carbon at the centre loses and gains energy which drops and raises it.
This causes changes in the waves through the crystal prisms causing the light to shift angles of reflection.

lol - nice 5th rate sci-fi.  You aren't really trying now are you?  Sounds like a dream you had after eating too much cheese.


How does this explain how different parts of the earth have different seasons at the same time?  Why is it winter in the UK when it is summer in Australia?

Sooo... You completely disagree with whatever both RE and FErs say about what we call the north pole, and "debunk" some of the most basic laws of physic, just like that? With nothing more than ideas? They are not theories. They are not even justified hypotheses. Good luck with that. I am really amazed how you can survive in the current world, as you see massive conspiracies and steaming piles of bullsh*t everywhere aside from things "you have tested". Is that "true vacuum" something you personally have experienced? Maybe read about somewhere? No?... What a shame. You have absolutely no base to claim it exists and behaves in a way you know. These are your ideas on how to explain stuff. Stuff that does not actually happen anywhere, mind you.

My take on things is that if some theory can be partially backed by evidence, and there is no evidence to the contrary of it, then it quite possibly may be true.
Example: a sample of solid cools down slower the lower the pressure of gas surrounding it is. It seems that no phase change will happen for the sample as the pressure goes down. No one has ever presented evidence that something strange happens at extremely low pressure to any known substance, that cannot be predicted by known laws of physics. All currently known laws suggest a predicted behaviour. Therefore, unless someone proves otherwise(by actually conducting a relevant experiment), it is a safe bet that the tendency will go all the way down to perfect vacuum.

I now partially agree with other guys saying you are a kind of our local jester. A kind of, as real life jesters usually were able to provide cleverly formulated insight into important manners, or ridiculed stupid ideas of their masters in a simple and funny way for them to realize that they sounded like morons. You, on the other hand, usually provide nothing but gibberish and mad babbling.

Well, if there is no way of even getting you to think about what you do by sticking to the subject(like the first paragraph of my last post - how comes you think the "super vacuum" even exists, if you have never encountered it in any way, or even read something clearly defining its properties with some evidence?), what can a man do but laugh at how stubborn you are? I give you examples how your ideas are widely inconsistent with themselves, hoping you would go something like "Hmm... It indeed seems like it is either this or that... But which one?". You scream back how indoctrinated I am. Whatever, even if the Earth was flat, some of your claims contradict each other. It is like saying that some place does not exist, followed by saying that you are already right there.