Can't FE theory even agree on a map?

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Vauxhall

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2014, 03:29:50 PM »
Do you type up your own posts? Because you clearly state that it's a map of the observable universe, which is not the entire universe. The universe is supposedly expanding and is thought to be infinite. Where is the infinite map of the entire universe?

Well you see, those black areas are the infinite areas where nothing is.  So it is a map on the entire visible universe.

Yes, but the entire visible universe is not the entire universe. The black spots on the map are not accurate at all, there could be galaxies out there that have not been mapped.

How many times do I have to type  this?
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Vauxhall

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2014, 03:44:39 PM »
Also, can you substantiate the claim that the Milky Way is apparently in the center of the universe? There is likely no center to the universe. Your map is inherently flawed and amateur. I could make a better map of the universe with my hands tied up using my mouth to hold the writing utensil.
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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2014, 03:58:52 PM »
Also, can you substantiate the claim that the Milky Way is apparently in the center of the universe? There is likely no center to the universe. Your map is inherently flawed and amateur. I could make a better map of the universe with my hands tied up using my mouth to hold the writing utensil.

Well you see, in this map, the Milky Way is in the center because it is mapping out everything outwards from us.  So because we are the in Milky Way Galaxy everything in it is closer to earth then other galaxies.  That's why it is the center of this map.

It's kind of like when you turn GPS on in your car, the GPS map centers on you, but that doesn't mean you're the center of America or the Earth, it just means the map's orientation is centered around you.

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Vauxhall

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2014, 04:10:26 PM »
Also, can you substantiate the claim that the Milky Way is apparently in the center of the universe? There is likely no center to the universe. Your map is inherently flawed and amateur. I could make a better map of the universe with my hands tied up using my mouth to hold the writing utensil.

Well you see, in this map, the Milky Way is in the center because it is mapping out everything outwards from us.  So because we are the in Milky Way Galaxy everything in it is closer to earth then other galaxies.  That's why it is the center of this map.

It's kind of like when you turn GPS on in your car, the GPS map centers on you, but that doesn't mean you're the center of America or the Earth, it just means the map's orientation is centered around you.

Yes, but if your map is supposedly a model of the universe... portraying the center as the Milky War is inherently false, which makes the map inaccurate. Not to mention all the other obvious flaws, which I have already covered.

Are you still claiming that this "map" shows the entire universe? If you aren't, then why did you post it when asked to post a map of the entire universe?
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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2014, 05:17:22 PM »
Also, can you substantiate the claim that the Milky Way is apparently in the center of the universe? There is likely no center to the universe. Your map is inherently flawed and amateur. I could make a better map of the universe with my hands tied up using my mouth to hold the writing utensil.

Well you see, in this map, the Milky Way is in the center because it is mapping out everything outwards from us.  So because we are the in Milky Way Galaxy everything in it is closer to earth then other galaxies.  That's why it is the center of this map.

It's kind of like when you turn GPS on in your car, the GPS map centers on you, but that doesn't mean you're the center of America or the Earth, it just means the map's orientation is centered around you.

Yes, but if your map is supposedly a model of the universe... portraying the center as the Milky War is inherently false, which makes the map inaccurate. Not to mention all the other obvious flaws, which I have already covered.

Are you still claiming that this "map" shows the entire universe? If you aren't, then why did you post it when asked to post a map of the entire universe?

If you look above, you didn't ask for the entire universe, you just said universe.

But here's an interactive map of the universe http://in-the-sky.org/ngc3d.php  Still has the sun as the center, but it's a reference point.

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Vauxhall

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2014, 05:41:07 PM »
Still not the entire universe.

Try again.
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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2014, 06:06:06 PM »
Still not the entire universe.

Try again.

How do you know?

Are you accepting that these are maps of the universe then?  Just not the entire universe?

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Vauxhall

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2014, 07:04:29 PM »
Still not the entire universe.

Try again.

How do you know?

Are you accepting that these are maps of the universe then?  Just not the entire universe?

Of course, but a map of the Earth could technically be considered a map of part of the universe as well. I was asking for a map of the entire universe.
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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2014, 07:32:17 PM »
Quote
Also, can you substantiate the claim that the Milky Way is apparently in the center of the universe? There is likely no center to the universe. Your map is inherently flawed and amateur. I could make a better map of the universe with my hands tied up using my mouth to hold the writing utensil.
The milky way is in the center because we can't travel to distant galaxies to map the universe from there. We know distances and positions of celestial objects relative to us, and to nothing else. Therefore a system of coordinates useful to map the sky will have its origin on the solar system. Building another system of coordinates with origin in the andromeda galaxy for example would just introduce unecessary and difficult transformations.
Quote
Do you type up your own posts? Because you clearly state that it's a map of the observable universe, which is not the entire universe. The universe is supposedly expanding and is thought to be infinite. Where is the infinite map of the entire universe?
This is not a map of the entire observable universe though, as the redshifts are too small. That aside, we have no way of ever observing nor being affected by something outside of our observable universe, so it cannot be mapped. Complaining we don't have a map of the entire universe (if it is larger than what we see) is complaining we cannot travel faster than light

Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2014, 10:50:23 PM »
Another thread with another request for evidence of a FE now derailed into something completely off topic.

How does asking for a simple FE map get turned into a discussion about maps of the universe?

That's not even mentioning a certain moderator who contributed not only nothing but helped with the derailment by simply entertaining ideas of a wild, unprovable and unsubstantiated conspiracy. Slow clap for you, jroa.

Either way, the OP had it in one: the reason the FES won't produce a map is because, without one, their 'theory' can never be refuted because how can one criticise something which doesn't exist? When asked simple questions like 'how would this flight route work on a FE map?', the answer can always be a FE map doesn't exist, so in theory it could work. See the brilliance here?

The real reason for no FE map, however, is that no FE'r could ever reconcile every observable phenomena, time zones, flight routes and known distances on a FE map because the earth is an oblate spheroid. Some have had attempts, but have failed on at least two of those aforementioned fronts.

So, getting back to the OP: Is there a map that most FE believers agree is the most accurate?  Please link to it so we can have a reference for further discussion.  If there are 2 or 3 top choices, please link to all of them.

Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2014, 03:32:06 AM »
Still not the entire universe.

Try again.

How do you know?

Are you accepting that these are maps of the universe then?  Just not the entire universe?

Of course, but a map of the Earth could technically be considered a map of part of the universe as well. I was asking for a map of the entire universe.
Go and look for one then,  do not ask here.

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ausGeoff

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2014, 11:42:01 AM »


This is believed to be one of the more accurate maps of the FE.


It never ceases to amuse me that the best map—and the one most often posted by flat earthers—is nothing more than a plagiarised version of the United Nations logo:




If Vauxhall truly "believes" that the UN logo (an azimuthal equidistant projection) is one of the more "accurate" maps of his flat earth model, then he doesn't understand that he's inadvertently accepting the round earth model LOL.

Additionally, distances and directions to all places are true only from the centre point of the projection, in this case the North Pole. And distances are correct only between points along straight lines through the centre. ALL other distances are incorrect. Distortion of areas and shapes increases with distance from the centre point.

And if Vauxhall (apparently) equates maps drawn thousands of years ago with any sort of geophysical accuracy, then he's only fooling himself.
 

 

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Vauxhall

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2014, 11:58:17 AM »
Geoff, the UN map was actually plagiarized from early Flat Earth settlers. The fact that the UN chose to use a depiction of the Flat Earth as their logo does not raise any questions for you? It certainly does for me.
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Rama Set

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2014, 12:07:49 PM »
Geoff, the UN map was actually plagiarized from early Flat Earth settlers. The fact that the UN chose to use a depiction of the Flat Earth as their logo does not raise any questions for you? It certainly does for me.

But you also tend to believe conspiracies where the less evidence there is , the more sure you are. This definitely raises questions about your judgement to me.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Vauxhall

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2014, 12:11:17 PM »
But you also tend to believe conspiracies where the less evidence there is , the more sure you are. This definitely raises questions about your judgement to me.

Why? You know what they say about assumptions, right?
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ausGeoff

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2014, 12:14:27 PM »
Geoff, the UN map was actually plagiarized from early Flat Earth settlers. The fact that the UN chose to use a depiction of the Flat Earth as their logo does not raise any questions for you? It certainly does for me.

Nope.  The UN logo wasn't "plagiarised" from any other maps—flat earth or otherwise.  It's simply an exact representation of the round earth using a specific projection.  And the UN certainly did not "choose" to use it as a "depiction" of a flat earth.  In 1945 the designers were more than well aware that the earth was spherical.  No flat earthers involved.

And I'm not familiar with the term "flat earth settlers".


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Vauxhall

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2014, 12:19:40 PM »
Geoff, the UN map was actually plagiarized from early Flat Earth settlers. The fact that the UN chose to use a depiction of the Flat Earth as their logo does not raise any questions for you? It certainly does for me.

Nope.  The UN logo wasn't "plagiarised" from any other maps—flat earth or otherwise.  It's simply an exact representation of the round earth using a specific projection.  And the UN certainly did not "choose" to use it as a "depiction" of a flat earth.  In 1945 the designers were more than well aware that the earth was spherical.  No flat earthers involved.

And I'm not familiar with the term "flat earth settlers".

It sounds like you're just making things up now.

Do you have any sources for the information you're peddling?
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Rama Set

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2014, 12:22:38 PM »
But you also tend to believe conspiracies where the less evidence there is , the more sure you are. This definitely raises questions about your judgement to me.

Why? You know what they say about assumptions, right?

I am not making an assumption. I am making a decision based on evidence. You should try it sometime.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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rottingroom

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2014, 12:36:25 PM »
Geoff, the UN map was actually plagiarized from early Flat Earth settlers. The fact that the UN chose to use a depiction of the Flat Earth as their logo does not raise any questions for you? It certainly does for me.

There is a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why the center of the projection chosen for the UN MAP was at the north pole Instead of over a specific nation. The United Nations is meant to be a collaboration of nations. Even though it isn't necessarily true, no particular nation is supposed to be considered to be more prominent than the other and that is what they were going for with this map. The North Pole is a neutral location to project this map from.

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ausGeoff

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2014, 12:42:49 PM »

It sounds like you're just making things up now.

Do you have any sources for the information you're peddling?

It may well sound to you that I'm "making things up", but that's simply because you seem to have an inbuilt resistance to accepting any of the globally accredited sciences as authoritative.  I can't imagine why you're so ready to accept the improbable, and far-fetched notion of a flat earth, and at the same time reject any/all of the recognised science that's accepted the spherical earth for centuries now.  Like most flat earthers, you don't seem to realise that you're fighting an uphill, unwinnable battle.  You have a single, dubious pseudo-scientific experiment carried out 150 years ago as "evidence" versus millions of research papers and millions of independent scientific observations to contend with.

Six million scientists from every country in the world accept the round earth model, but yet the flat earthers here can't even name half a dozen accredited scientists that accept the flat earth model.  Doesn't that tell you something?  Or are you going to claim that all those 6 million scientists are part of some secret world government conspiracy to fool the peasants?  And for what reasons—specifically—would "they" wish to carry out this charade?  What benefits would they reap as individuals?  And would all those scientists be rewarded financially for keeping the secret, or just go along with it out of the goodness of their hearts?

And my information is common knowledge amongst the worldwide academic and scientific community.  No need to cite "sources".

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Vauxhall

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #50 on: June 07, 2014, 12:49:07 PM »
It may well sound to you that I'm "making things up", but that's simply because you seem to have an inbuilt resistance to accepting any of the globally accredited sciences as authoritative.  I can't imagine why you're so ready to accept the improbable, and far-fetched notion of a flat earth, and at the same time reject any/all of the recognised science that's accepted the spherical earth for centuries now.  Like most flat earthers, you don't seem to realise that you're fighting an uphill, unwinnable battle.  You have a single, dubious pseudo-scientific experiment carried out 150 years ago as "evidence" versus millions of research papers and millions of independent scientific observations to contend with.

Six million scientists from every country in the world accept the round earth model, but yet the flat earthers here can't even name half a dozen accredited scientists that accept the flat earth model.  Doesn't that tell you something?  Or are you going to claim that all those 6 million scientists are part of some secret world government conspiracy to fool the peasants?  And for what reasons—specifically—would "they" wish to carry out this charade?  What benefits would they reap as individuals?  And would all those scientists be rewarded financially for keeping the secret, or just go along with it out of the goodness of their hearts?

And my information is common knowledge amongst the worldwide academic and scientific community.  No need to cite "sources".

Argumentum ad populum and an appeal to authority in the same post! Congratulations, ausGeoff.  You fail at debating.
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robintex

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #51 on: June 07, 2014, 06:22:45 PM »
The simple fact of the matter is  that the UN logo is just a stylized version of the North Polar, Unipolar or whatever  you want to call it  Projection of the globe and was in no way intended to have any relation to so-called "flat earth." I rather doubt they even gave a thought to it in regards to a so-called flat earth. Just one way to make a logo showing the entire earth.

It is just a logo made by Round Earthers of a certain projection of a Round Earth. No flat earthers were involved.

The only question for me is one raised by  flat earther. :  What is a "Flat Earth Settler ?"

As one other poster said, it does also amuse me that FE claims this to be an accurate flat earth map. LOL.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 06:55:58 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

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ausGeoff

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2014, 12:44:15 PM »

Argumentum ad populum and an appeal to authority in the same post! Congratulations, ausGeoff.  You fail at debating.

LOL... this tired old "non" response always gets a laugh out of me.  Rather than address any of the substance of my claim, Vauxhall dismisses it with nothing more than a misplaced application of simple logic.

Zero flat earth scientists versus 6,000,000 round earth scientists is neither an appeal to the majority, nor an appeal to the authority of scientists.

I note too that Vauxhall apparently can't answer my challenge of naming even half a dozen flat earth scientists.  Nor can he define "flat earth settlers" seemingly, let alone name any.

And no amount of fancy Latin phrases will help you rescue your lost cause Vauxhall.
 

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ausGeoff

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2014, 12:52:20 PM »

As one other poster said, it does also amuse me that FE claims this to be an accurate flat earth map. LOL.

The obvious irony of this seems to be lost on flat earthers:  That the UN logo is actually an azimuthal equidistant projection of the round earth map centred on the North Pole and extending to latitude 60ºS.

Originally the projection was to be centred on the middle of North America, but later changed for its negative political ramifications.


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robintex

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2014, 05:05:36 PM »
Geoff, the UN map was actually plagiarized from early Flat Earth settlers. The fact that the UN chose to use a depiction of the Flat Earth as their logo does not raise any questions for you? It certainly does for me.

The usual rather inane FE statement . LOL.

Still waiting for a defiinition of a - what was that ? -  "Early Flat Earth Settlers"  ???

Knowing what the UN Logo actually is certainly doesn't raise any questions for me.
Vauxhall :Just what are your questions ?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 05:13:26 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2014, 05:18:06 PM »
I think that the use of a flat Earth map for the UN logo has some kind of meaning.  It could be a subtle hint about the shape of the Earth.  It could also be some sort of other deep sign.  However, there is definitely some meaning behind it. 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 05:26:26 PM by jroa »

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rottingroom

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2014, 05:30:16 PM »
I think that the use of a flat Earth map for the UN logo has some kind of meaning.  It could be a subtle hint about the shape of the Earth.  It could also be some sort of other deep sign.  However, there is definitely some meaning behind it.


I already covered this. The FES society is using the UN logo, not the other way around. The reason the flag uses that map projection is because a neutral point was chosen for the center.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #57 on: June 08, 2014, 05:38:30 PM »
No, you are mistaken.  There have been flat Earth monopolar maps for a long time before the UN was created, much less a map was thought up for it.  Sometimes, I wonder where you get your information.  Do you just make it all up, or do you honestly think that you are providing truthful facts? 

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robintex

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Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #58 on: June 08, 2014, 06:17:22 PM »
No, you are mistaken.  There have been flat Earth monopolar map
s for a long time before the UN was created, much less a map was thought up for it.  Sometimes, I wonder where you get your information.  Do you just make it all up, or do you honestly think that you are providing truthful facts?

I don't get the point. Of course there have been all kinds of various projections for a long time before the UN.

The funny thing and most  the amusing thing about this website is that RE's post actual, factual , backed up evidence about things while the FE's always say they are fake while the best that FE's can do is to post some whacky, weird and inane remarks. LOL.

If it wasn't for the entertainment value (see my signature line) I would have departed from visiting this website long ago. Out of sheer boredom at the usual FE remarks. However, I keep coming back to see what is the latest FE invention.
Thank you so much for that, FES . ;D
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 06:25:23 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

Re: Can't FE theory even agree on a map?
« Reply #59 on: June 08, 2014, 06:29:32 PM »
Do you just make it all up, or do you honestly think that you are providing truthful facts?