Is VirginGalactic part of the Conspiracy?

Quote from: jroa on June 03, 2014, 03:17:29 PM

We made it to the moon in less than a decade back in the 60s with the processing power of a pocket calculator.  How long has Virgin Galactic been trying to get into low Earth orbit?  Hmmm... something is not adding up here.

First of all, VG isn't trying to get into low earth orbit (at least not yet).  Secondly, VG is working towards far more strict safety standard than NASA, who has lost 3% of their astronauts to fatal accidents.  An airline that loses 3% of their customers in accidents isn't likely to stay in business very long.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2565516/We-really-lose-Richard-Branson-says-Virgin-Galactic-space-flights-risk-NASAs-3-death-rate.html

Yes, markjo.  We had the technology 40 years ago, back when computers were shit, yet we could launch people into space orbit.  Today, with the great processing power that we have, it is difficult to do this, even though NASA is completely working with these people and financing them.  Sounds completely real. 

Yes, markjo.  We had the technology 40 years ago, back when computers were shit, yet we could launch people into space orbit.  Today, with the great processing power that we have, it is difficult to do this, even though NASA is completely working with these people and financing them.  Sounds completely real. 

  Who says that NASA is completely working with and financing VG?

  Who says that NASA is completely working with and financing VG?

jroa does.

Quote from: markjo on June 04, 2014, 06:36:05 AM

Quote from: jroa on June 03, 2014, 03:17:29 PM

We made it to the moon in less than a decade back in the 60s with the processing power of a pocket calculator.  How long has Virgin Galactic been trying to get into low Earth orbit?  Hmmm... something is not adding up here.

First of all, VG isn't trying to get into low earth orbit (at least not yet).  Secondly, VG is working towards far more strict safety standard than NASA, who has lost 3% of their astronauts to fatal accidents.  An airline that loses 3% of their customers in accidents isn't likely to stay in business very long.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2565516/We-really-lose-Richard-Branson-says-Virgin-Galactic-space-flights-risk-NASAs-3-death-rate.html

Yes, markjo.  We had the technology 40 years ago, back when computers were shit, yet we could launch people into space orbit.  Today, with the great processing power that we have, it is difficult to do this, even though NASA is completely working with these people and financing them.  Sounds completely real. 

What are you able to do with the processing power we have available today?  Have you designed and built anything from scratch that requires flight and a passenger?  It's super easy right?

To all those out there that find it hard to believe that a government could keep a lid on such a huge conspiracy: you need to take a look at some history books.

The Manhattan Project began modestly in 1939, but grew to employ more than 130,000 people and cost nearly US$2 billion during its time (1939–1946). During most of this time period no one knew about the Manhattan project other than those working on it. It wasn't until the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945 that the public found out about the existence of the project. That's 6 years of complete secrecy and, this is the most important part, no leaks.

To all those out there that find it hard to believe that a government could keep a lid on such a huge conspiracy: you need to take a look at some history books.

The Manhattan Project began modestly in 1939, but grew to employ more than 130,000 people and cost nearly US$2 billion during its time (1939–1946). During most of this time period no one knew about the Manhattan project other than those working on it. It wasn't until the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945 that the public found out about the existence of the project. That's 6 years of complete secrecy and, this is the most important part, no leaks.

And when there are now multiple governing space agencies and now private ones, are they all working together?

Also, what is the point of the conspiracy?

And when there are now multiple governing space agencies and now private ones, are they all working together?

Also, what is the point of the conspiracy?

Yes. They are all part of the cover up. Their motive is monetary.

Yeah, on one hand: An ultra top secret military project started as a decisive measure during the greatest war in history taking place in one or two purpose-built locations in the middle of fucking nowhere with families of the critical members moved near the site living under strict oversight from military police and intelligence services with all communications being monitored.

On the other hand: A big global industry in it's 8th decade with no oversight or restrictions other than some regarding transferable technology that could be used for ICBMs, primarily nosecones and guidance and some superficial licensing and air traffic rules to stop some idiot building a huge rocket and crashing it into an orphanage or a plane in flight.

And even with (literally) the best efforts, information probably did get out of Los Alamos / Oak Ridge.

To all those out there that find it hard to believe that a government could keep a lid on such a huge conspiracy: you need to take a look at some history books.

The Manhattan Project began modestly in 1939, but grew to employ more than 130,000 people and cost nearly US$2 billion during its time (1939–1946). During most of this time period no one knew about the Manhattan project other than those working on it. It wasn't until the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945 that the public found out about the existence of the project.

You're right, the Manhattan project was a complete secret, as in even the existence of the project was a secret.  Now, how do you suppose the the Manhattan project compares to the publicly televised manned space launches, live broadcasts from space and such?

That's 6 years of complete secrecy and, this is the most important part, no leaks.

Well, maybe one leak:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Fuchs

Virgin Galactic is simply a money laundering scheme.

Whoa, I'd love to hear you repeat that in front of one of their lawyers.  Or even in a forum where more than about 50 people will see it.  Do you actually know what money laundering is?

  NASA has given them nearly a billion dollars

No, they haven't.  Stop lying.

Yeah, on one hand: An ultra top secret military project started as a decisive measure during the greatest war in history taking place in one or two purpose-built locations in the middle of fucking nowhere with families of the critical members moved near the site living under strict oversight from military police and intelligence services with all communications being monitored.

What's your point? You just described everyone living in the United States. We are practically a police state now, and everyone is monitored (NSA). I see no difference. It's just becoming more apparent now more than ever.

Quote from: sandmanMike on June 04, 2014, 10:12:08 AM

And when there are now multiple governing space agencies and now private ones, are they all working together?

Also, what is the point of the conspiracy?

Yes. They are all part of the cover up. Their motive is monetary.

So the very small percentage of money the government spends on NASA is a monetary conspiracy, and yet NASA spends the money on rockets, personnel, research, etc.  Not being able to see the books on NASA, but where does that money go if there is even any left?

The space industry has existed for some 60 years all over the world. The entire world has been under military lockdown for exactly none of that time.

People working in the Manhattan District didn't just have their facebook updates recorded in a database to be studied later - they weren't allowed phones, their letters were censored, high up members were surveilled almost constantly, absolutely nothing could be taken in or out of certain areas. The rules were exactly as you'd expect, and even at that great cost they barely managed to hang onto the secret for 3 or 4 years.

ultra top secret military project ... in one or two purpose-built locations in the middle of fucking nowhere with families of the critical members moved near the site living under strict oversight from military police and intelligence services with all communications being monitored.

You just described everyone living in the United States ... I see no difference.

I'm sorry to hear about you and your family being moved to a secure facility in the middle of the desert and cut off from the rest of the world. Glad to see you still have unrestricted internet access though. My God! You could leak all the secret information you have!

Quote from: Vauxhall on June 04, 2014, 10:13:01 AM

Quote from: sandmanMike on June 04, 2014, 10:12:08 AM

And when there are now multiple governing space agencies and now private ones, are they all working together?

Also, what is the point of the conspiracy?

Yes. They are all part of the cover up. Their motive is monetary.

So the very small percentage of money the government spends on NASA is a monetary conspiracy, and yet NASA spends the money on rockets, personnel, research, etc.  Not being able to see the books on NASA, but where does that money go if there is even any left?

That's the thing. NASA doesn't spend the money, it goes back into the government's pocket. Rockets, pictures from space, satellites, etc. All fake.

And the monetary amount is not "a small percentage", where did you get that information?

From the real world, it's full of facts. NASA's current budget is about 0.5% of the federal budget.

Wow, page 174 of this report says that people polled in the 90s thought NASA got more like 20% of the federal budget! Do you have so little idea about where your money's going?

Quote from: sandmanMike on June 04, 2014, 11:29:56 AM

Quote from: Vauxhall on June 04, 2014, 10:13:01 AM

Quote from: sandmanMike on June 04, 2014, 10:12:08 AM

And when there are now multiple governing space agencies and now private ones, are they all working together?

Also, what is the point of the conspiracy?

Yes. They are all part of the cover up. Their motive is monetary.

So the very small percentage of money the government spends on NASA is a monetary conspiracy, and yet NASA spends the money on rockets, personnel, research, etc.  Not being able to see the books on NASA, but where does that money go if there is even any left?

That's the thing. NASA doesn't spend the money, it goes back into the government's pocket. Rockets, pictures from space, satellites, etc. All fake.

And the monetary amount is not "a small percentage", where did you get that information?

Why would the government need a conspiracy to funnel money back into it's pocket?  Especially when they already spend more money then they take in?

NASA Budget is roughly 18 billion for 2014 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA
USA Spending is about 3.77 trillion for 2014 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_United_States_federal_budget

.018 trillion (that's 18 billion / (divided by) 3.77 trillion = .477%

In other words, if you had roughly a yearly income of $37,700 the amount being spent on NASA would be $179.83, about the same as I spend on gas in a month.  Less then my Starbucks habit for a month for sure.  That's how I know it's a small percentage.

Oh and um... they do build rockets, you can go see them live and in person - http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/launchingrockets/viewing.html#.U49vD_ldXYg

That's the thing. NASA doesn't spend the money, it goes back into the government's pocket. Rockets, pictures from space, satellites, etc. All fake.

Their CGI budget would end up being bigger than actually maintaining a space program.  How much do you think goes back?

From the real world, it's full of facts. NASA's current budget is about 0.5% of the federal budget.

And a considerably smaller percentage if you include non-federal public sector spending.

Quote from: Vauxhall on June 04, 2014, 11:43:25 AM

That's the thing. NASA doesn't spend the money, it goes back into the government's pocket. Rockets, pictures from space, satellites, etc. All fake.

Their CGI budget would end up being bigger than actually maintaining a space program.  How much do you think goes back?

Quote from: Goddamnit

From the real world, it's full of facts. NASA's current budget is about 0.5% of the federal budget.

And a considerably smaller percentage if you include non-federal public sector spending.

I thought you saw the light, Crabby.
I was wrong.

Quote from: Vauxhall on June 04, 2014, 11:43:25 AM

That's the thing. NASA doesn't spend the money, it goes back into the government's pocket. Rockets, pictures from space, satellites, etc. All fake.

Their CGI budget would end up being bigger than actually maintaining a space program.  How much do you think goes back?

Quote from: Goddamnit

From the real world, it's full of facts. NASA's current budget is about 0.5% of the federal budget.

And a considerably smaller percentage if you include non-federal public sector spending.

They don't need to fund CGI.

Do you know anything about economics? In our society, money is really just a tool to keep people in check. To create class-warfare and debt as a means of control. Money really isn't that important to the government, because they make the money. The world is theirs to plunder for resources and do as they please.

NASA is the government's attempt at trying to connect with the impoverished and unfortunate on their level. NASA acts (keyword) within the confines of "world economics" but is really unaffected by it. "We're NASA, we're scientists working for a wage just like you are! Look at this picture of Earth from Space! Lol!"

Meanwhile, the government is harvesting resources from the endless icewall.

Quote from: sandmanMike on June 04, 2014, 10:12:08 AM

And when there are now multiple governing space agencies and now private ones, are they all working together?

Also, what is the point of the conspiracy?

Yes. They are all part of the cover up. Their motive is monetary.

Money really isn't that important to the government, because they make the money. The world is theirs to plunder for resources and do as they please.

Meanwhile, the government is harvesting resources from the endless icewall.

Now you're just contradicting yourself.  They motive is monetary...  Money isn't important to the government because they make money...

So why do they need a conspiracy to funnel money if they don't actually need money?

Quote from: Vauxhall on June 04, 2014, 10:13:01 AM

Quote from: sandmanMike on June 04, 2014, 10:12:08 AM

And when there are now multiple governing space agencies and now private ones, are they all working together?

Also, what is the point of the conspiracy?

Yes. They are all part of the cover up. Their motive is monetary.

Quote

Money really isn't that important to the government, because they make the money. The world is theirs to plunder for resources and do as they please.

Meanwhile, the government is harvesting resources from the endless icewall.

Now you're just contradicting yourself.  They motive is monetary...  Money isn't important to the government because they make money...

So why do they need a conspiracy to funnel money if they don't actually need money?

I've revised my original theory.

I'm allowed to do that, you know. It's called being a free thinker and finding flaws in your own arguments. Despite everything, I do believe that money is just a made up number to control people.

From an article in Rolling Stone Magazine:
"Conspiracy theorists of the world, believers in the hidden hands of the Rothschilds and the Masons and the Illuminati, we skeptics owe you an apology. You were right. The players may be a little different, but your basic premise is correct: The world is a rigged game."

There is evidence that a few major players control absolutely everything that goes on around the world. Wallstreet and the banks that run it are obviously part of a much larger conspiracy. I will not always be right on the money with my theories, but I believe that I am getting closer to the truth.

Quote from: sandmanMike on June 04, 2014, 12:58:26 PM

Quote from: Vauxhall on June 04, 2014, 10:13:01 AM

Quote from: sandmanMike on June 04, 2014, 10:12:08 AM

And when there are now multiple governing space agencies and now private ones, are they all working together?

Also, what is the point of the conspiracy?

Yes. They are all part of the cover up. Their motive is monetary.

Quote

Money really isn't that important to the government, because they make the money. The world is theirs to plunder for resources and do as they please.

Meanwhile, the government is harvesting resources from the endless icewall.

Now you're just contradicting yourself.  They motive is monetary...  Money isn't important to the government because they make money...

So why do they need a conspiracy to funnel money if they don't actually need money?

I've revised my original theory.

I'm allowed to do that, you know. It's called being a free thinker and finding flaws in your own arguments. Despite everything, I do believe that money is just a made up number to control people.

From an article in Rolling Stone Magazine:
"Conspiracy theorists of the world, believers in the hidden hands of the Rothschilds and the Masons and the Illuminati, we skeptics owe you an apology. You were right. The players may be a little different, but your basic premise is correct: The world is a rigged game."

There is evidence that a few major players control absolutely everything that goes on around the world. Wallstreet and the banks that run it are obviously part of a much larger conspiracy. I will not always be right on the money with my theories, but I believe that I am getting closer to the truth.

Did you just copy paste from an article after getting on to me about copy pasting

I have no problem with you revising your theories, but that was less then 3 hours before you made this one.  And you firm enough about it to disqualify information that I was providing to you based around evidence. 

While we can all agree that there are major players who control pretty much everything, they aren't very secret about it and can be seen doing it day in and day out.

But there isn't any evidence of the ice wall you've suggested, and what evidence is there that the government is milking it for money? 

What are you able to do with the processing power we have available today? 

You should take a computer science class sometime.  Even with off-the-shelf parts, you can build a powerful computer that can do many wonderful things.  Virgin Galactic does not have to reinvent the wheel here.

Quote from: sandmanMike on June 04, 2014, 08:56:31 AM

What are you able to do with the processing power we have available today? 

You should take a computer science class sometime.  Even with off-the-shelf parts, you can build a powerful computer that can do many wonderful things.  Virgin Galactic does not have to reinvent the wheel here.

I have thanks, and have worked in the field.

Since you were not able to answer the original question, "Have you designed and built anything from scratch that requires flight and a passenger?"  I'll assume you have not.

What is the most wonderful thing you've been able to accomplish with computers to date?

Sometimes I post without thinking. I post the same way I would write a rough draft of an essay. Sometimes I'll type up stupid shit that just doesn't make sense. I usually try to correct myself if I realize I'm contradicting myself, however.

I didn't mean to patronize you, Mike. There's really no way of knowing for sure what the motives are behind the conspiracy. I'm almost certain they're doing it for some sort of monetary reason.  When I use the word "monetary" I mean it in their terms. They are not nessecarily getting paper money out of this, but they are certainly profiting somehow from stealing resources from all over the world. Whether it is to make guns and ammo to funnel into mexico to fuel drug wars (this has been proven to be factual many times from many different sources), what is the motive behind that? We know that its happening but we don't fully understand why it's happening. The same logic is applied when dealing with why they cover up the fact that the Earth is flat.

Quote from: jroa on June 04, 2014, 01:58:07 PM

Quote from: sandmanMike on June 04, 2014, 08:56:31 AM

What are you able to do with the processing power we have available today? 

You should take a computer science class sometime.  Even with off-the-shelf parts, you can build a powerful computer that can do many wonderful things.  Virgin Galactic does not have to reinvent the wheel here.

I have thanks, and have worked in the field.

Since you were not able to answer the original question, "Have you designed and built anything from scratch that requires flight and a passenger?"  I'll assume you have not.

What is the most wonderful thing you've been able to accomplish with computers to date?

I have not built or designed anything that is meant for passenger travel; I will admit that.  However, I have designed and built, on many occasions, industrial production equipment.  My range of experience ranges from simple assembly line automated stations to complex automated machining equipment.  Just because I have never designed a passenger carrying vehicle, don't assume that I cannot comprehend the process. 

However, back on topic, we have already sent people into orbit; yet these people are acting like they are doing it for the first time.  They are getting funding from the people who did it 40 years ago, and I admit that I am assuming that NASA would also pass on their knowledge.  The way they put it off makes me feel like they are just milking the funding for as long as they can. 

Sometimes I post without thinking. I post the same way I would write a rough draft of an essay. Sometimes I'll type up stupid shit that just doesn't make sense. I usually try to correct myself if I realize I'm contradicting myself, however.

I didn't mean to patronize you, Mike. There's really no way of knowing for sure what the motives are behind the conspiracy. I'm almost certain they're doing it for some sort of monetary reason.  When I use the word "monetary" I mean it in their terms. They are not nessecarily getting paper money out of this, but they are certainly profiting somehow from stealing resources from all over the world. Whether it is to make guns and ammo to funnel into mexico to fuel drug wars (this has been proven to be factual many times from many different sources), what is the motive behind that? We know that its happening but we don't fully understand why it's happening. The same logic is applied when dealing with why they cover up the fact that the Earth is flat.

You're bringing up many factual things that have been reported on to back up the conspiracy, but so far it's all be anecdotal.  Because A and B have happened then the possibility of C is true and is occurring, instead of C being possible but we just don't know.

In other words, just because other things have happened doesn't mean there is a conspiracy.  Has there been any evidence this millennium or the ice wall?  Or any resources the government might be able to obtain from it?

Also, as a side note, I can not find reference to Einstein saying that Quote, "Common sense is that which tells us the world is flat."  Instead I found that it was said by Stuart Chase 1949 - Language in Thought and Action. p.29-30

I've heard the common sense quite attributed to Einstein though I don't know if they were right to do so. I remember it as:

"Common sense is what tells is the world is flat and that iron boats will sink."

or words to that effect. It was a warning against using "common sense" in place of rigorous enquiry. Although, I can't find it now with a quick google.

/edit, found it:

Common sense tells us that the world is flat, that the sun goes around the earth, that heavy bodies always fall faster than light bodies, that boats made of iron will sink.

Quote from: sandmanMike on June 04, 2014, 02:03:26 PM

Quote from: jroa on June 04, 2014, 01:58:07 PM

Quote from: sandmanMike on June 04, 2014, 08:56:31 AM

What are you able to do with the processing power we have available today? 

You should take a computer science class sometime.  Even with off-the-shelf parts, you can build a powerful computer that can do many wonderful things.  Virgin Galactic does not have to reinvent the wheel here.

I have thanks, and have worked in the field.

Since you were not able to answer the original question, "Have you designed and built anything from scratch that requires flight and a passenger?"  I'll assume you have not.

What is the most wonderful thing you've been able to accomplish with computers to date?

I have not built or designed anything that is meant for passenger travel; I will admit that.  However, I have designed and built, on many occasions, industrial production equipment.  My range of experience ranges from simple assembly line automated stations to complex automated machining equipment.  Just because I have never designed a passenger carrying vehicle, don't assume that I cannot comprehend the process. 

However, back on topic, we have already sent people into orbit; yet these people are acting like they are doing it for the first time.  They are getting funding from the people who did it 40 years ago, and I admit that I am assuming that NASA would also pass on their knowledge.  The way they put it off makes me feel like they are just milking the funding for as long as they can.

Great so you know it's no easy task.  I've worked in 3D animation and design now for about 15 years now and it's funny how people can not comprehend the amount of work that goes into things.  For instance when I working with an architectural firm, our designers would ask for a brick color to be changed not understanding the amount of work that goes on something so simple. 

A quick brick color change could take 2 hours to do and then another 8 hours to render easily.  If they wanted a design layout change it could easily take 5 times that.

It's not like you just walk up to these super powerful computers and say, design me a working rocket capable of doing x, y and z.

So the amount of time it takes to get something to 100% reliability and not 97% is huge. 

Also, to put things into perspective.  The Boeing 787 Dreamliner, and Airplane built by a company doing it for many many decades took over 8 years to design and build before being introduced to the public for purchase at a cost of 32 billion dollars. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner

It may be possible VG is a scam, but when you put it up against the timeline and cost of an airline it's doing pretty damn good, would you not agree?

I've heard the common sense quite attributed to Einstein though I don't know if they were right to do so. I remember it as:

"Common sense is what tells is the world is flat and that iron boats will sink."

or words to that effect. It was a warning against using "common sense" in place of rigorous enquiry. Although, I can't find it now with a quick google.

/edit, found it:

Quote from: STUART CHASE, The Proper Study of Mankind

Common sense tells us that the world is flat, that the sun goes around the earth, that heavy bodies always fall faster than light bodies, that boats made of iron will sink.

The only common sense Einstein quote I can find is, Common sense is nothing more than a deposit of prejudices laid down by the mind before you reach eighteen. - Mathematics, Queen and Servant of the Sciences (1952) by Eric Temple Bell