The setting Sun is one big optical illusion,,,.

Interesting. So if you take away the effect of refraction, the Sun would appear lower in the sky at sunset than it actually is. Good to know!

Refraction is an odd phenomena. 

Yeah the gradient in the atmosphere actually lets you see a little further over the horizon than you could otherwise.

Refraction is an odd phenomena.

What's odd is that we can use our knowledge of refraction to build optics with incredible precision, yet you claim it does things to the Sun that nobody can explain or predict.

You don't think lenses work now, do you? Wake up! The Conspiracy really got to you, didn't they...

Who said anything about lenses? 

Shmeggley?

So Stephen Fry is a reputable scientist now? You realize he mostly stars in comedies, right? 

So Stephen Fry is a reputable scientist now? You realize he mostly stars in comedies, right? 

OK, so you're saying that refraction doesn't affect the apparent height of the Sun in the sky?

Quote from: Vauxhall on May 28, 2014, 04:26:59 PM

So Stephen Fry is a reputable scientist now? You realize he mostly stars in comedies, right? 

OK, so you're saying that refraction doesn't affect the apparent height of the Sun in the sky?

It does, of course. But not in the way Stephen Fry is explaining it. His explanation is ludicrous and wrong on so many levels.

Quote from: Shmeggley on May 28, 2014, 04:30:21 PM

Quote from: Vauxhall on May 28, 2014, 04:26:59 PM

So Stephen Fry is a reputable scientist now? You realize he mostly stars in comedies, right? 

OK, so you're saying that refraction doesn't affect the apparent height of the Sun in the sky?

It does, of course. But not in the way Stephen Fry is explaining it. His explanation is ludicrous and wrong on so many levels.

So you can relate.

His explanation is ludicrous and wrong on so many levels.

He should fit right in with the FES then.

I was drawn to this thread by the inappropriateness of the topic header "The setting Sun is one big optical illusion" and of course wasn't surprised to find that it was started by a flat earther.

For some unknown reason—maybe scientific ignorance?—many flat earthers are confused by the background science of optical illusions, and obviously don't understand the actual definition of the word "illusion".  An illusion is "something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality".

The fact that refraction in the layer of dense air at the ocean's surface produces this sunset illusion doesn't alter in any way the actual geophysical process of the spherical earth rotating on its axis.

Anybody who's taken off from an airport at dusk will have seen the illusion of the already set sun appearing again as the plane reaches its cruising altitude.

Optical illusions don't alter reality.
 

It IS an optical illusion because the sun is not going "down".  It's just reached the lowest possible angle to be seen by your eyes before the horizon gets in the way and blocks it.

And just how does the sun get low enough for the horizon to block it while the sun is still 3000 miles high?

And just how does the sun get low enough for the horizon to block it while the sun is still 3000 miles high?

Because the earth is round. QED.

It IS an optical illusion because the sun is not going "down".  It's just reached the lowest possible angle to be seen by your eyes before the horizon gets in the way and blocks it.

Nope.  The sun doesn't "go down".  It's stationary in our planetary system.  Even the ancient Greeks and Egyptians knew this using its constant location with respect to the stellar constellations. 

The spherical earth is rotating, which explains clearly why the sun disappears from our vision—and why we have nighttime.  Grade school science.

No matter what height, eventually everything reaches a distance where it is blocked by objects closer to you.  It happens with buildings, mountains....

Quote from: EarthIsASpaceship on June 01, 2014, 02:08:14 PM

It IS an optical illusion because the sun is not going "down".  It's just reached the lowest possible angle to be seen by your eyes before the horizon gets in the way and blocks it.

Nope.  The sun doesn't "go down".  It's stationary in our planetary system.  Even the ancient Greeks and Egyptians knew this using its constant location with respect to the stellar constellations. 

The spherical earth is rotating, which explains clearly why the sun disappears from our vision—and why we have nighttime.  Grade school science.

The ancient Egyptians believed the SUN (RA) traveled in a boat that sailed through the sky.  It does not get any clearer than that.  THE SUN MOVES. 

Quote from: ausGeoff on June 02, 2014, 06:30:17 AM

Quote from: EarthIsASpaceship on June 01, 2014, 02:08:14 PM

It IS an optical illusion because the sun is not going "down".  It's just reached the lowest possible angle to be seen by your eyes before the horizon gets in the way and blocks it.

Nope.  The sun doesn't "go down".  It's stationary in our planetary system.  Even the ancient Greeks and Egyptians knew this using its constant location with respect to the stellar constellations. 

The spherical earth is rotating, which explains clearly why the sun disappears from our vision—and why we have nighttime.  Grade school science.

The ancient Egyptians believed the SUN (RA) traveled in a boat that sailed through the sky.  It does not get any clearer than that.  THE SUN MOVES.

That may have been part of religious beliefs but Ancient Egypt recorded in stone the rotation of planets around the sun. http://d4nations.com/webpubl/articles/the-history-of-the-solar-system.html

Sure the planets rotate around the sun but that does not mean the sun isn't moving too.

No matter what height, eventually everything reaches a distance where it is blocked by objects closer to you.  It happens with buildings, mountains....

Do you mean things that are moving away from you, or things that you are moving away from? Because in either case, I agree, and the best explanation for this is that the Earth is a round ball.

Sure the planets rotate around the sun but that does not mean the sun isn't moving too.

Sure the sun in moving, it rotates around the center of the galaxy that is moving in the universe.  But from the earth's perspective the sun is stationary and the earth orbits around it while rotating on it's axis.  (In the most fundamental of explanations).

It's more logical that the Earth is stationary and not spinning a thousand mph on an axis,  ocean water is contained by ice and not held down by the mystery of gravity, the sun is EM energy created by the gases in our atmo"sphere" and not an enormous mass of gas millions of miles away in space.

Simple explanations over complicated ones.

It's more logical that the Earth is stationary and not spinning a thousand mph on an axis,  ocean water is contained by ice and not held down by the mystery of gravity, the sun is EM energy created by the gases in our atmo"sphere" and not an enormous mass of gas millions of miles away in space.

Simple explanations over complicated ones.

But that's there a force called the aether that is constantly accelerating at a consistent exponential rate to give the illusion of gravity, that is effecting everything in the universe perfectly, while we can observe the rotation of other planets and orbits of their moons and then think that somehow the earth is completely different in every possible way.

Yeah, that seems overly complicated to me.

Simple explanations over complicated ones.

Explanations that work over ones that do not.

At the end of the day FET does not even have an explanation for such a simple, every day (heh) phenomenon as a sunset.

Anyway, there is nothing simple about FET which involves a vast conspiracy lasting 1000s of years and encompassing millions of people.  Not to mention made up shite like aetheric whirlpools and mysterious forces accelerating the earth to near the speed of light.

Crab,
I did explain the sunset.
As far as the FE aether explanation of gravity, that doesn't mean all FErs believe it.

Crab,
I did explain the sunset.
As far as the FE aether explanation of gravity, that doesn't mean all FErs believe it.

What do you believe?  Especially when we can observe the orbit and rotation of other planetary bodies in our solar system?

I believe all matter is pushed to Earth according to it's density and electrical charge.  We observe the rotation of objects in the sky because they ARE rotating.