Foucault pendulums

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #330 on: May 30, 2014, 04:56:47 PM »
Is it not possible that the gravitational attraction of the sun and moon may influence the very slight rotation of a pendulum? 

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Shmeggley

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #331 on: May 30, 2014, 05:11:23 PM »
Is it not possible that the gravitational attraction of the sun and moon may influence the very slight rotation of a pendulum?

Do you mean the 32 mile diameter, 3000 mile up FE Sun, or the real Sun?

In either case the force is going to be so miniscule it's insignificant. The resistance due to air friction would be several orders of magnitude larger.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #332 on: May 30, 2014, 05:13:25 PM »
Possibly, if you assume round Earth numbers for a gravitational force. 

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Shmeggley

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #333 on: May 30, 2014, 05:20:01 PM »
Possibly, if you assume round Earth numbers for a gravitational force.

Are you suggesting that the gravitational constant is many orders of magnitude larger than what's been measured so far? Or that the force of gravity equation is wrong? That seems highly unlikely.

Also, considering the path of the FE Sun and Moon, I don't see how that is going to make every Foucault pendulum rotate the way it does, at different rates depending on what latitude they are at.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 05:23:25 PM by Shmeggley »
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Vauxhall

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #334 on: May 30, 2014, 05:21:16 PM »
Funny how you accuse us of brushing off all photographic evidence as fake, but then you turn around and do the exact same thing... ::)
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Goddamnit, Clown

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #335 on: May 30, 2014, 05:26:04 PM »
Also, no it isn't possible. The pendulum precesses because the bob has no way to "acquire" the rotation of the earth.

On a stationary earth with the sun going round our pendulum, the centre of the arc would could be moved toward the sun a little but there's still no way for that force to rotate the direction the pendulum swings.

@Vaux
What photographic evidence are you talking about? There's none on the last few pages.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #336 on: May 30, 2014, 05:29:36 PM »
Are you suggesting that the gravitational constant is many orders of magnitude larger than what's been measured so far? Or that the force of gravity equation is wrong? That seems highly unlikely.

Also, considering the path of the FE Sun and Moon, I don't see how that is going to make every Foucault pendulum rotate the way it does, at different rates depending on what latitude they are at.

You can either start with an assumption and make the data fit the assumption, or you can start with an open mind and seek the truth. 

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Vauxhall

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #337 on: May 30, 2014, 05:30:33 PM »
Also, no it isn't possible. The pendulum precesses because the bob has no way to "acquire" the rotation of the earth.

On a stationary earth with the sun going round our pendulum, the centre of the arc would could be moved toward the sun a little but there's still no way for that force to rotate the direction the pendulum swings.

@Vaux
What photographic evidence are you talking about? There's none on the last few pages.

Sorry, accidentally post in the wrong thread.
Read the FAQS.

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Shmeggley

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #338 on: May 30, 2014, 06:29:59 PM »
Are you suggesting that the gravitational constant is many orders of magnitude larger than what's been measured so far? Or that the force of gravity equation is wrong? That seems highly unlikely.

Also, considering the path of the FE Sun and Moon, I don't see how that is going to make every Foucault pendulum rotate the way it does, at different rates depending on what latitude they are at.

You can either start with an assumption and make the data fit the assumption, or you can start with an open mind and seek the truth.

That's a platitude often used by creationists strangely enough. It's true enough, but doesn't address my argument at all. The motion of the Foucault pendulum is well documented. The RE explanation fits all the available data. There's still no feasible explanation from the FE side apart from a lot of vague hand waving.

The idea that the Earth is round and rotates isn't an assumption, it's a conclusion. But let's try it your way anyway. I'll assume the Earth is round and rotating. I have a mathematical model that fits the motion of the Foucault pendulum:

The angular speed, ω (measured in clockwise degrees per sidereal day), is proportional to the sine of the latitude, φ, given by the equation . This model predicts precisely what will happen to the pendulum depending on what latitude it operates at.

Now you go. Let's allow the assumption of the flat, non-rotating Earth, and you provide a model that fits the data.

« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 06:31:40 PM by Shmeggley »
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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #339 on: May 30, 2014, 08:16:15 PM »
There are many reasons that a pendulum could make a circle if the Earth is indeed flat.  I just listed one.  Perhaps you missed it.  I said that the effect could possibly be caused my gravitational attraction of celestial objects.  There are other things that come to mind that could explain it as well.  Such as the trade winds or the flat Earth rotating or the permeability of the Earth to the force of the Aetheral winds.  I simply do not make assumptions based on the satanic NASA scientists.  However, I would say that there is always the possibility that it is all just an elaborate hoax from people who aim to perpetuate the round Earth theory. 

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Scintific Method

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #340 on: May 31, 2014, 01:59:10 AM »
There are many reasons that a pendulum could make a circle if the Earth is indeed flat.  I just listed one.  Perhaps you missed it.  I said that the effect could possibly be caused my gravitational attraction of celestial objects.  There are other things that come to mind that could explain it as well.  Such as the trade winds or the flat Earth rotating or the permeability of the Earth to the force of the Aetheral winds.  I simply do not make assumptions based on the satanic NASA scientists.  However, I would say that there is always the possibility that it is all just an elaborate hoax from people who aim to perpetuate the round Earth theory.

Just to address the possibilities you raised here:
gravitational attraction of celestial bodies - would not yield a consistent rate of precession. I'm not even sure you would get precession at all in the Southern hemisphere, and it certainly would not get more pronounced as you get further away from the equator.
trade winds - again, would not yield a consistent result, if any.
flat earth rotating - would yield a consistent rate of one rotation of the arc of swing per rotation of the earth no matter where you were, and always in the same direction.
permeability to the AW - again, no consistent result, if any, would be possible.

It really does require a little more than "hmm, that sounds good, I'll go with that".
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ausGeoff

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #341 on: May 31, 2014, 05:59:40 AM »

There's really no point to keep this thread open since round earthers seem to be on a broken record loop now.

Why is it that whenever people such as Vauxhall are backed into a corner, and can't respond with any viable evidence for their bizarre claims, they often suggest that the thread should be closed?  What gives them the right of censorship, or to decide when threads/discussions should be terminated?

Why is Vauxhall so defensive?  He's suggested terminating this thread twice now.  What's he fearful of?  Empirical evidence proving the theory behind the mechanics of the Foucault pendulum maybe.

Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #342 on: May 31, 2014, 07:03:33 AM »

There's really no point to keep this thread open since round earthers seem to be on a broken record loop now.

Why is it that whenever people such as Vauxhall are backed into a corner, and can't respond with any viable evidence for their bizarre claims, they often suggest that the thread should be closed?  What gives them the right of censorship, or to decide when threads/discussions should be terminated?

Why is Vauxhall so defensive?  He's suggested terminating this thread twice now.  What's he fearful of?  Empirical evidence proving the theory behind the mechanics of the Foucault pendulum maybe.
Backed in to a corner LOL your whole premise is based on the notation that a pendulum will swings back & forth keeping a true line with the earth rotating underneath it. This notion is bass on conjecture not fact. If one applies Molecular Structure atomic weights & their configuration of bond http://www.chemguide.co.uk/atoms/structures/molecular.html. When a pendulum is on its down would swing momentum is travelling with the force of gravity. Once the pendulum has past the lowest point of downward swing. It then has to fight gravity from  that lowest point. This is where it fails to keep line, momentum is now fighting gravity. rotation guaranteed due to the pendulum drifting of line on its upward travel. Molecular imbalance insures it to occur. The minutest drift will insure rotation. any thing less then 0.000000000......... You will get rotation occurring.     
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Goddamnit, Clown

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #343 on: May 31, 2014, 07:10:06 AM »
Bear in mind that all the FES is really looking for is:

"That could probably be caused by the sun going round."
or
"Probably magnets."

The aim isn't to create a working, predictive model of reality, but only to describe just enough wiggle room so that believers are no longer stuck with that uncomfortable cognitive dissonance. It's a pattern common to any and all conspiracy theories. You already believe (and really want to continue believing) that something dramatic, yet easy to understand is happening (inside job, aliens, NWO), you're faced with something that shows it to be very unlikely so the next step isn't altering your beliefs (god forbid!) or even finding an equally good explanation for the new evidence - the next step is merely finding a rationalisation that sounds good enough that it allows you to put that evidence aside and avoid the discomfort.


/edit @charles:
What? You're saying that molecular bonding is causing this macroscopic precession to occur at exactly the same rate and in the same direction at each latitude?

Yeah, it isn't.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 07:14:04 AM by Goddamnit, Clown »
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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #344 on: May 31, 2014, 07:48:53 AM »
Bear in mind that all the FES is really looking for is:

"That could probably be caused by the sun going round."
or
"Probably magnets."

The aim isn't to create a working, predictive model of reality, but only to describe just enough wiggle room so that believers are no longer stuck with that uncomfortable cognitive dissonance. It's a pattern common to any and all conspiracy theories. You already believe (and really want to continue believing) that something dramatic, yet easy to understand is happening (inside job, aliens, NWO), you're faced with something that shows it to be very unlikely so the next step isn't altering your beliefs (god forbid!) or even finding an equally good explanation for the new evidence - the next step is merely finding a rationalisation that sounds good enough that it allows you to put that evidence aside and avoid the discomfort.


/edit @charles:
What? You're saying that molecular bonding is causing this macroscopic precession to occur at exactly the same rate and in the same direction at each latitude?

Yeah, it isn't.
What I'm saying is a pendulum does not keep line of trajectory when its momentum is fighting the pull of gravity due to the pendulums imbalance at a molecule level. Its imbalance is not measurable effected on the downward swing. Because momentum is travelling with the gravitational pull. Latitude lol you mean insuring the bob will take the rotational direction of earth's centre of mass. Which is not a perfect spherical centre mass.             
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 07:50:30 AM by charles bloomington »
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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #345 on: May 31, 2014, 08:17:05 AM »
Bear in mind that all the FES is really looking for is:

"That could probably be caused by the sun going round."
or
"Probably magnets."

The aim isn't to create a working, predictive model of reality, but only to describe just enough wiggle room so that believers are no longer stuck with that uncomfortable cognitive dissonance. It's a pattern common to any and all conspiracy theories. You already believe (and really want to continue believing) that something dramatic, yet easy to understand is happening (inside job, aliens, NWO), you're faced with something that shows it to be very unlikely so the next step isn't altering your beliefs (god forbid!) or even finding an equally good explanation for the new evidence - the next step is merely finding a rationalisation that sounds good enough that it allows you to put that evidence aside and avoid the discomfort.


/edit @charles:
What? You're saying that molecular bonding is causing this macroscopic precession to occur at exactly the same rate and in the same direction at each latitude?

Yeah, it isn't.
What I'm saying is a pendulum does not keep line of trajectory when its momentum is fighting the pull of gravity due to the pendulums imbalance at a molecule level. Its imbalance is not measurable effected on the downward swing. Because momentum is travelling with the gravitational pull. Latitude lol you mean insuring the bob will take the rotational direction of earth's centre of mass. Which is not a perfect spherical centre mass.           
Please remind us how imperfect it is.

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Goddamnit, Clown

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #346 on: May 31, 2014, 08:28:43 AM »
Yeah, for once I think I did understand what you meant.

But you're still wrong. Which is slightly relieving, in a way. I was giving you (quite) the benefit of the doubt before, in case your arguments were actually quite incisive in your native tongue, but we just weren't understanding them. Luckily that seems not to be the case.

Quote from: charles
Latitude lol you mean insuring the bob will take the rotational direction of earth's centre of mass. Which is not a perfect spherical centre mass.
By latitude, I mean how far north or south you are. That's what latitude means. At 90° these "molecular imbalances" will always cause a precession of exactly one rotation per day in the same direction in any pendulum. At 0° they will cause no precession and at any point in between, the period of precession will be exactly the sine of your latitude times one rotation per day. ie. It's once per day at the poles, gradually slowing to nothing at the equator.

Those are some mighty consistent "molecular imbalances" you're suggesting.
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RealScientist

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #347 on: May 31, 2014, 02:33:40 PM »
Quote
What about the south magnetic  pole?. Oh that's right you haven't found that pole yet using a compass. Because a compass only points North.

You mean the one where a free-floating compass will point straight up? Where magnetic field lines meet the earth's surface vertically? It was at 64.497°S 137.684°E as of 2007. Not sure where it is now, it tends to move a little bit. Maybe you could go find it for us? Shouldn't be too hard, just find the spot where the earth's magnetic field meets the surface exactly vertically.

You are giving this genius way too much credit. Anywhere not too close to the the poles the typical compass needle points to the North pole with the red side, the South Pole with the other side. Want to find the South pole? Look at the white side of the needle and start walking.

It is just a word game. The compass needle is not aligning with a magnetic field, it is pointing North, as if it knew what a pole is.

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sokarul

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #348 on: May 31, 2014, 04:21:30 PM »
Which north pole are you referring to. The make believe one or magnetic north pole? & while we are on the subject of cooked up figures & bullshyt , did you know the Easter bunnies lay eggs when the hens are off the lay.  ::)
What about the south magnetic  pole?. Oh that's right you haven't found that pole yet using a compass. Because a compass only points North.
I'm a little late but I guess you didn't read where I pointed out to Jroa that compasses point to magnetic south. So you now need to learn this, compasses point to magnetic south, which is close to the north pole. Understand?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #349 on: May 31, 2014, 11:41:17 PM »
Which north pole are you referring to. The make believe one or magnetic north pole? & while we are on the subject of cooked up figures & bullshyt , did you know the Easter bunnies lay eggs when the hens are off the lay.  ::)
What about the south magnetic  pole?. Oh that's right you haven't found that pole yet using a compass. Because a compass only points North.
I'm a little late but I guess you didn't read where I pointed out to Jroa that compasses point to magnetic south. So you now need to learn this, compasses point to magnetic south, which is close to the north pole. Understand?

In case you have not noticed, compasses point in two different directions.  I know you are trying to trip people up by pointing out that the north pointer on a compass points to the actual south magnetic pole, but you are really making your self look dumb by bringing this up every other post.  The south pointer on a compass points to the actual north magnetic poll, so your statement is retarded. 

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ausGeoff

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #350 on: June 01, 2014, 12:25:02 AM »
 
Okay.  A couple of irrefutable facts.

A brass bob cannot be affected by magnets.  Most are made of brass.  Ergo the flat earthers' claim of any/all sorts of magnets causing the pendulum's alleged circular path are null and void.

There is no measurable and/or effective gravitational influence on the bob from the moon or the sun or planet X.  (It's been estimated that the moon's gravitational force on the human body would be equivalent to that of the body of a mosquito immediately adjacent to that human.)

Flat earthers must accept that the mechanics of the Foucault pendulum are exactly as described by thousands of scientists over the past 150 years.  The only reason that flat earthers resist the principles of the pendulum is a simple one;  were they to accept it as proof of the earth's periodic rotation, it'd disprove their flat earth hypothesis in one fell swoop.
 

Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #351 on: June 01, 2014, 12:30:32 AM »
Yeah, for once I think I did understand what you meant.

But you're still wrong. Which is slightly relieving, in a way. I was giving you (quite) the benefit of the doubt before, in case your arguments were actually quite incisive in your native tongue, but we just weren't understanding them. Luckily that seems not to be the case.

Quote from: charles
Latitude lol you mean insuring the bob will take the rotational direction of earth's centre of mass. Which is not a perfect spherical centre mass.
By latitude, I mean how far north or south you are. That's what latitude means. At 90° these "molecular imbalances" will always cause a precession of exactly one rotation per day in the same direction in any pendulum. At 0° they will cause no precession and at any point in between, the period of precession will be exactly the sine of your latitude times one rotation per day. ie. It's once per day at the poles, gradually slowing to nothing at the equator.

Those are some mighty consistent "molecular imbalances" you're suggesting.
I know what latitude is  ::). Its imaginary just like your equator ,Just like your axis that continual & conveniently gets shifted to sure up  the doggy maths.
Everything about this so call proving experiment being touted is tainted, right down to the lighting of the tread. If you knew anything about yarn /cotton or rope you would know how its spun (twisted) & the tension on it. For a sort stint my job was to maintain & repair the machinery involved & that also entailed learning how to spin threads, how to twist threads , how to repair breakage & how to prevent breakage  of the thread with out stopping the machine & production & a good understanding of the tensions involved & the direction all threads are twisted. Its a science in it self. Claiming burning a thread has no interfering reaction is a lie in its self.                 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 12:36:37 AM by charles bloomington »
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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #352 on: June 01, 2014, 12:54:17 AM »

Okay.  A couple of irrefutable facts.

A brass bob cannot be affected by magnets.  Most are made of brass.  Ergo the flat earthers' claim of any/all sorts of magnets causing the pendulum's alleged circular path are null and void.

There is no measurable and/or effective gravitational influence on the bob from the moon or the sun or planet X.  (It's been estimated that the moon's gravitational force on the human body would be equivalent to that of the body of a mosquito immediately adjacent to that human.)

Flat earthers must accept that the mechanics of the Foucault pendulum are exactly as described by thousands of scientists over the past 150 years.  The only reason that flat earthers resist the principles of the pendulum is a simple one;  were they to accept it as proof of the earth's periodic rotation, it'd disprove their flat earth hypothesis in one fell swoop.
The magnet is to induce the pivoting point, to keep the pendulum swinging. Which is a fraud in its self. as it can alter  momentum of swing.Hence timing of rotation. Try & obtain a grant to study other reasoning & conclusion, in regards to a Foucault pendulum & just see for your self the hostility you will receive as your shown the door.               
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Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don't…:

Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #353 on: June 01, 2014, 01:40:15 AM »

Okay.  A couple of irrefutable facts.

A brass bob cannot be affected by magnets.  Most are made of brass.  Ergo the flat earthers' claim of any/all sorts of magnets causing the pendulum's alleged circular path are null and void.

There is no measurable and/or effective gravitational influence on the bob from the moon or the sun or planet X.  (It's been estimated that the moon's gravitational force on the human body would be equivalent to that of the body of a mosquito immediately adjacent to that human.)

Flat earthers must accept that the mechanics of the Foucault pendulum are exactly as described by thousands of scientists over the past 150 years.  The only reason that flat earthers resist the principles of the pendulum is a simple one;  were they to accept it as proof of the earth's periodic rotation, it'd disprove their flat earth hypothesis in one fell swoop.
The magnet is to induce the pivoting point, to keep the pendulum swinging. Which is a fraud in its self. as it can alter  momentum of swing.Hence timing of rotation. Try & obtain a grant to study other reasoning & conclusion, in regards to a Foucault pendulum & just see for your self the hostility you will receive as your shown the door.               
Explain what 'induce the pivoting point' means.

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ausGeoff

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #354 on: June 01, 2014, 02:17:39 AM »
The magnet is to induce the pivoting point, to keep the pendulum swinging. Which is a fraud in its self. as it can alter  momentum of swing. Hence timing of rotation. Try & obtain a grant to study other reasoning & conclusion, in regards to a Foucault pendulum & just see for your self the hostility you will receive as your shown the door.               

Sorry Charles, but your meaningless claim about "inducing the pivot point" is at odds with your fellow flat earther Vauxhall, who posted this diagram:
 
 


vauxhall's explanation relies on the magnets being located in the floor under the pendulum's path, which obviously doesn't have any effect on the suspension point of the pendulum.  It also doesn't explain how non-ferrous bobs would be affected, as they're obviously non-magnetic.   And as a side note,  this example points up one of the major weaknesses with the flat earth hypothesis:  None of the flat earthers can agree on any of their science.  Unlike we round earthers who agree unanimously on round earth science, the flat earthers' claims often directly contradict each other.

Your other claim that "twisting" of the suspension cord has long been dismissed.  Most high school science experiments use a heavy gauge mono-filament fishing line, which doesn't twist.  Even if we use wire rope, any induced twist after manufacture will disappear once the wire reaches a state of equilibrium, and in any event such a "twisting" motion—if any—would only last for a matter of minutes.  It'd certainly not be continuous.  If it were, then we would've solved the perpetual motion question LOL.

And finally Charles, I have no need to apply for a "grant" to study the Foucault pendulum.  Thousands of scientists have already provided reams of data illustrating how it works over the past 150 years.  Can I suggest you employ a scientist to disprove the theory, and then get back to us with empirical evidence supporting your claims that it doesn't work precisely as theorised by round earthers.
 
 


Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #355 on: June 01, 2014, 05:30:01 AM »
The magnet is to induce the pivoting point, to keep the pendulum swinging. Which is a fraud in its self. as it can alter  momentum of swing. Hence timing of rotation. Try & obtain a grant to study other reasoning & conclusion, in regards to a Foucault pendulum & just see for your self the hostility you will receive as your shown the door.               

Sorry Charles, but your meaningless claim about "inducing the pivot point" is at odds with your fellow flat earther Vauxhall, who posted this diagram:
 
 


vauxhall's explanation relies on the magnets being located in the floor under the pendulum's path, which obviously doesn't have any effect on the suspension point of the pendulum.  It also doesn't explain how non-ferrous bobs would be affected, as they're obviously non-magnetic.   And as a side note,  this example points up one of the major weaknesses with the flat earth hypothesis:  None of the flat earthers can agree on any of their science.  Unlike we round earthers who agree unanimously on round earth science, the flat earthers' claims often directly contradict each other.

Your other claim that "twisting" of the suspension cord has long been dismissed.  Most high school science experiments use a heavy gauge mono-filament fishing line, which doesn't twist.  Even if we use wire rope, any induced twist after manufacture will disappear once the wire reaches a state of equilibrium, and in any event such a "twisting" motion—if any—would only last for a matter of minutes.  It'd certainly not be continuous.  If it were, then we would've solved the perpetual motion question LOL.

And finally Charles, I have no need to apply for a "grant" to study the Foucault pendulum.  Thousands of scientists have already provided reams of data illustrating how it works over the past 150 years.  Can I suggest you employ a scientist to disprove the theory, and then get back to us with empirical evidence supporting your claims that it doesn't work precisely as theorised by round earthers.
His misunderstanding where the magnets are used. That being at the pivoting point & not where he envisioned they would be placed  . Doesn't negate his claim or the fact magnets are used to keep the pendulum swinging.
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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #356 on: June 01, 2014, 06:01:40 AM »
How, exactly, do these magnets affect the swing if they are at the top, and what if the string is non magnetic?

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #357 on: June 01, 2014, 11:46:38 AM »
How, exactly, do these magnets affect the swing if they are at the top, and what if the string is non magnetic?

It is a very simple circuit to make it work with an electromagnet and a switch. 

Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #358 on: June 01, 2014, 12:23:48 PM »
How, exactly, do these magnets affect the swing if they are at the top, and what if the string is non magnetic?

It is a very simple circuit to make it work with an electromagnet and a switch.
Please explain more, and how was the switch operated 100 years ago

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Re: Foucault pendulums
« Reply #359 on: June 01, 2014, 12:36:27 PM »
How, exactly, do these magnets affect the swing if they are at the top, and what if the string is non magnetic?

It is a very simple circuit to make it work with an electromagnet and a switch.
Please explain more, and how was the switch operated 100 years ago

The electromagnet would turn on at a certain point, then turn off at a certain point.  It is simple physics.