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THe burden of proof is on FE's

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TheDerangedWang

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THe burden of proof is on FE's
« on: November 05, 2006, 06:44:35 AM »
Many FE's use former advances in science to prove the fact that just becuase it sounds far out now, it might not be in the future. For instance, they might claim that Newton or Galileo sounded radical at the time and people tried to shut them up, yet their ideas are widely accepted now and so why shouldnt the FE theory?

Answer: In each of the cases above and in all cases of past histroy where the status quo was challenged, the challengers were the ones that offered substantiated and undeniable truth that completely discredited the current theory. FE's have not done that, all they have done is asked the status quo to be proven. When it is proven, they simply claim conspiracy or fake evidence. FE's havent a shred of evidence, conspiracy or not. Dark matter, wall of ice, flat earth..there nice opinions, but they arent backed up by anything provable since as soon as one tries to prove their statements, they scream..it cant be done since the gov't is agaisnt you, etc

Conclusion: The FE theory will never "be in the loop" cause their approach to get their views accepted is different than that of people before. The burden of  proof is on them because the round earth is the accepted TRUTH, not theory. So for all you FE's out there, ask not me to prove to you, but ask you what you can prove to us.

Besides, 1.2 Billion Chinese, and abut 3 Billion Asians believe in the Round Earth theory...it's simply mathematically improbable that, that many asians can be wrong...including myself :lol:
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EnragedPenguin

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Re: THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2006, 07:23:59 AM »
I agree that the burden of proof lies with the flat Eathers to prove their theory; however, if a round Earther wants to claim that the theory is false, the burden of proof will lie with them.

Flat Earthers have already attempted to prove their theory with Samuel Rowbotham's Earth: Not a Globe. If you want to claim that the FE theory is false, the burden of proof is now on you.
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Kryptid

  • 20
Re: THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2006, 10:15:10 AM »
Quote from: "EnragedPenguin"

Flat Earthers have already attempted to prove their theory with Samuel Rowbotham's Earth: Not a Globe. If you want to claim that the FE theory is false, the burden of proof is now on you.

Still, I ask, why do you people believe Samuel Rowbotham? How do you know he didn't just make up the stuff he wrote in that book? Since Flat-Earthers seem to have the motto of "proove it to me or I won't believe it", then why do they choose to believe a man who did not actually proove the Earth was flat?

He made claims.

So do other scientists.

Why choose to believe his claims over other scientists?

What makes his claims better or more authentic than other scientists?
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 want a Flat-Earther to PM me, and tell me why they believe Samuel Rowbotham in the first place. If a Flat-Earther requires proof in order to believe something, then why do they believe this man, even though he provided no proof himself?
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GeoGuy

Re: THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2006, 10:47:04 AM »
Quote from: "Kryptid"
What makes his claims better or more authentic than other scientists?


The fact that his observations fit perfectly with those of the FE's
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Joseph Bloom

  • 114
THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2006, 10:54:30 AM »
I thought you were a round earther?
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he Engineer and GeoGuy are douchebags. Period.

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GeoGuy

THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2006, 10:56:51 AM »
I don't believe I ever said I wasn't.
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phaseshifter

  • 841
Re: THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2006, 11:35:03 AM »
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
Quote from: "Kryptid"
What makes his claims better or more authentic than other scientists?


The fact that his observations fit perfectly with those of the FE's


How is that an explanation?
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CrimsonKing

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THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2006, 11:54:14 AM »
which scientist are you going to believe, the one who agrees with you, or the one who doesn't, if they both had evidence to proove their hypothesis?
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link222

  • 57
THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2006, 11:56:46 AM »
The choice is obviously going to be biased but to make it entierly scientific, you would need more proof on one side thenthe other which would mean further testing
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CrimsonKing

  • 1621
THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2006, 12:05:00 PM »
Which means we need more FE scientists.

Since there there is a huge stigmaupon the FE model, this will be difficult to accomplish
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Max Fagin

  • 695
THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2006, 12:12:18 PM »
Quote from: "CrimsonKing"
which scientist are you going to believe, the one who agrees with you, or the one who doesn't, if they both had evidence to proove their hypothesis?


The difference is that, unlike the rest of science, Rowbothams experiments have never been reliably repeated.

Think about it.  If a scientists results can't be duplicated in 150 years, doesn't that say something about his credibility?
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"The earth looks flat; therefore it is flat."
-Flat Earthers

"Triangle ABC looks isosceles; therefore . . ."
-3rd grade geometry student
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EnragedPenguin

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THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2006, 12:19:00 PM »
Quote from: "Max Fagin"
Think about it.  If a scientists results can't be duplicated in 150 years, doesn't that say something about his credibility?


Have you tried duplicating his results? If not, how do you know they can't be duplicated?
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Max Fagin

  • 695
THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2006, 12:49:46 PM »
As a matter of fact, EnragedPenguin, yes I have.

His first seven experiments, for example, are all basically the same thing.  He observes an object at distances great enough for the curvature of the Earth to be significant.  He claims that he saw no "sinking effect" as the object got farther away.

While RE'ers and FE'ers may debate the cause of a ship "sinking" as it sails away, I think we can all agree that the effect does occur.  In addition, I have personally observed this phenomena.  It doesn't say anything about the shape of the Earth, but it does say something about Rowbothams results.

The rest of his experiments I havent personally duplicated, but that is because many of them are dependant on the conclusions from experiments 1-7.  If the conclusions in the first experiments are invalid, it negates most (But I'll admit not all) of his later work.
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"The earth looks flat; therefore it is flat."
-Flat Earthers

"Triangle ABC looks isosceles; therefore . . ."
-3rd grade geometry student
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EnragedPenguin

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THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2006, 01:14:52 PM »
Quote from: "Max Fagin"
His first seven experiments, for example, are all basically the same thing.  He observes an object at distances great enough for the curvature of the Earth to be significant.  He claims that he saw no "sinking effect" as the object got farther away.


Did you replicate his experiments? If you didn't, how do you know that the results he reported were false? Perhaps there wasn't a sinking effect under the conditions he was using.
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phaseshifter

  • 841
THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2006, 02:05:50 PM »
Quote from: "CrimsonKing"
which scientist are you going to believe, the one who agrees with you, or the one who doesn't, if they both had evidence to proove their hypothesis?


I'm going to analyse the evidence, and then, I will beleive the one whose experiment  I was able to dupplicate several times, getting the same results. What I agree with is irrelevant.
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CrimsonKing

  • 1621
THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2006, 02:17:50 PM »
I can duplicate experiments for both, get the same results as the two, and so each seems to be perfectly viable.  In this case, I will go for the one I agree with more.
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EnragedPenguin

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Re: THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2006, 05:01:01 PM »
Quote from: "TheDerangedWang"
WE HAVE DISPROVEN THE FLAT EARTH THEORY, ITS NOT OUR FAULT U GUYS ARE IN DENIAL


I haven't seen it disproven yet. I've seen some experiments that can be done to prove or disprove it, but no one here has tried performing them.
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BOGWarrior89

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Re: THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2006, 05:41:20 PM »
Quote from: "EnragedPenguin"
Quote from: "TheDerangedWang"
WE HAVE DISPROVEN THE FLAT EARTH THEORY, ITS NOT OUR FAULT U GUYS ARE IN DENIAL


I haven't seen it disproven yet. I've seen some experiments that can be done to prove or disprove it, but no one here has tried performing them.


To further EnragedPenguin's argument, WE could be the ones that are in denial.  (FYI: Me=RoundEarther)
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link222

  • 57
THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2006, 08:30:31 PM »
the thing is, it could take a really long time for us to see if it is a round or flat earth. Every time something is proven wrong with the flat earth theory, the theory can easily change to fix it. That is what one is supposed to do with a theory.
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Joseph Bloom

  • 114
THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2006, 12:51:09 AM »
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
I don't believe I ever said I wasn't.


Then act like it. Your supposed to be on our side idiot.
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TheEngineer

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THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2006, 12:52:55 AM »
Ooh, what are we choosing sides for?  Dodgeball?
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Joseph Bloom

  • 114
THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2006, 12:55:47 AM »
If your a round earther then you should argue for RE why is that so hard to do?
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he Engineer and GeoGuy are douchebags. Period.

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TheEngineer

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THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2006, 01:01:03 AM »
I wouldn't want to argue on the same side as you.
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"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson
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Joseph Bloom

  • 114
THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2006, 01:04:27 AM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
I wouldn't want to argue on the same side as you.


Up yours. :roll:
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he Engineer and GeoGuy are douchebags. Period.

Also, they smell bad.
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bibicul

  • 259
Re: THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2006, 01:22:20 AM »
Quote from: "EnragedPenguin"
I agree that the burden of proof lies with the flat Eathers to prove their theory; however, if a round Earther wants to claim that the theory is false, the burden of proof will lie with them.

Flat Earthers have already attempted to prove their theory with Samuel Rowbotham's Earth: Not a Globe. If you want to claim that the FE theory is false, the burden of proof is now on you.


Round Earthers have already succeeded in proving their theory with the help of: Nicolaus Copernicus heliocentric model, Newton's laws of motion and Einstein's theory of relativity. I'm sure the list is actually much longer.
Samuel Rowbotham's ("an eccentric English inventor" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_earth_society) theory was not accepted by the population. Therefore the burden of proof is still on FE'ers, since they were unable to disprove the RE theory and convince anyone that the earth was flat - except a selected few (most present on this website).
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TheEngineer

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THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2006, 01:30:53 AM »
How do Newton's laws of motion prove the earth is round?
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"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson
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bibicul

  • 259
THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2006, 01:34:33 AM »
They don't. They help prove the earth is round (read more carefully) by providing relationships between the forces acting on a body - gravity comes to mind here.
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TheEngineer

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THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2006, 01:38:05 AM »
I still don't see how they help show the earth is round.
1.  An object at rest will remain...
2.  F=ma ...
3.  Equal and opposite...

Yep, don't see where they apply.
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"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson
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bibicul

  • 259
THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2006, 01:43:05 AM »
Well that's because you don't understand the relationship between Newton's third law and gravity.

Quote
Third law
To every action (force applied) there is an equal but opposite reaction (equal force applied in the opposite direction).
Another way of stating Newton's third law, an interaction between two objects, is that, if object A exerts a force on object B, object B will exert the same magnitude force on A, but in the opposite direction.


I am not going to explain that to you, since you should've done your homework in high school. Grade 9, that is...
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beast

  • 2997
THe burden of proof is on FE's
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2006, 03:12:17 AM »
I must have skipped class in grades 9, 10 ,11 and 12 because I don't understand the point you're trying to make at all.

I think you're just making shit up and don't know what you're talking about.
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