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Gravitational conundrums

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inquisitive

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2014, 01:09:06 AM »
Quote from: Vauxhall on May 09, 2014, 12:44:42 AM
I can't remember the name of the documentary. I do remember that David Bowie played Tesla in the dramatization parts. But I could be wrong.

Either way, no one has given a convincing argument agaisnt aether other than "because it was proven false". I'd expect at least one of you to have some sort of indoctrined RE pseudo-science dribble to explain it away, but I see its out of RETs grasp.
So did the machine work?
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bravimone

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2014, 03:13:44 AM »
Quote from: Vauxhall on May 09, 2014, 12:44:42 AM
I can't remember the name of the documentary. I do remember that David Bowie played Tesla in the dramatization parts. But I could be wrong.

Either way, no one has given a convincing argument agaisnt aether other than "because it was proven false". I'd expect at least one of you to have some sort of indoctrined RE pseudo-science dribble to explain it away, but I see its out of RETs grasp.

You are saying ether exists, the burden of proof is on you. Can you prove i don't have a pink unicorn in my garage? No, you can't, because it's not possible to prove a negative, but you have many reasons to believe i don't really have it, like we have many reasons to believe ether doesn't exist. If it does exist prove it.
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Quote from: jroa on April 07, 2014, 05:54:32 PM
I have yet to see evidence that Lunar Eclipses even exist.  Have you ever seen one?
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #62 on: May 09, 2014, 03:14:47 AM »
Quote from: Vauxhall on May 09, 2014, 12:44:42 AM
I can't remember the name of the documentary. I do remember that David Bowie played Tesla in the dramatization parts. But I could be wrong.
Lol, I remember that documentary as well.  Was it called The Prestige?

Can't believe it gets 8.5 on IMDB.  Decent film until the end, where it just gets silly.  Max of 7/10 for me.

Tesla was actually playing himself in it.  He just looks like David Bowie.
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Goddamnit, Clown

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #63 on: May 09, 2014, 03:21:39 AM »
7/10 max? That film is 8/10 minmum! I've heard other people say that the ending 'suddenly' turned the film into science fiction and that that was a cheat or a cop out on the mystery they'd built up until that point. Was that your complaint, too?
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #64 on: May 09, 2014, 05:17:04 AM »
Quote from: Goddamnit, Clown on May 09, 2014, 03:21:39 AM
7/10 max? That film is 8/10 minmum! I've heard other people say that the ending 'suddenly' turned the film into science fiction and that that was a cheat or a cop out on the mystery they'd built up until that point. Was that your complaint, too?
Pretty much.

The whole film is about a battle between 2 master illusionists....and the the "prestige" of the film doesn't turn out to be some really clever trick within a trick, or whatever, but actual sorcery (it's not even sci-fi).  Ruined it for me.

If you like that sort of thing though, then read Carter Beats the Devil.  It is a very similar theme, but just one of the most fantastically enjoyable books I've read  - seriously get a copy now!
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #65 on: May 09, 2014, 05:30:37 AM »
Let's keep this on topic.  If you would like to discuss The Prestige, I can move the last few posts the Arts & Entertainment forum. 
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Goddamnit, Clown

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #66 on: May 09, 2014, 07:47:37 AM »
Eh. Leave it; I spend enough time thinking about films in my real life. Have a look back at who it was that suggested Tesla was Bowie to change the subject in the first place, though.
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Ski

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #67 on: May 09, 2014, 04:53:37 PM »
Quote from: bravimone on May 09, 2014, 03:13:44 AM
You are saying ether exists, the burden of proof is on you.

Of course aether exists. It simply isn't in vogue to call it by that name anymore because there are negative connotations.
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V

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #68 on: May 09, 2014, 06:00:52 PM »
Quote from: Ski on May 09, 2014, 04:53:37 PM
Quote from: bravimone on May 09, 2014, 03:13:44 AM
You are saying ether exists, the burden of proof is on you.

Of course aether exists. It simply isn't in vogue to call it by that name anymore because there are negative connotations.
You have provided no proof.
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Goddamnit, Clown

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #69 on: May 09, 2014, 07:52:04 PM »
The kind of ether you're thinking about; a ubiquitous medium that fills the universe through which light propagates contradicts relativity directly and has never once been observed.

More specifically, nothing predicted by the ether hypothesis have ever been observed (and not for lack of trying), whereas relativity was a huge increase in our ability to predict the world, one which has stood up to ever finer degrees of scrutiny as time goes on.

Why would anyone say "of course" ether exists? Is there an experiment which gives results most consistent with the existence of ether? If so, they were published in a very poor journal, because as of today modern science has not been turned upside down by those findings.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 10:02:37 AM by Goddamnit, Clown »
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2014, 08:19:30 PM »
But, the guy who created Special Relativity and General Relativity believed in the Aether.  Yet, now you are telling us that Relativity cancels out Aether?  Maybe you are smarter than Einstein? 
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V

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #71 on: May 09, 2014, 08:27:17 PM »
Quote from: jroa on May 09, 2014, 08:19:30 PM
But, the guy who created Special Relativity and General Relativity believed in the Aether.  Yet, now you are telling us that Relativity cancels out Aether?  Maybe you are smarter than Einstein?
You still haven't provided any proof the ether exists.
Einstein originally believed in the ether but he used Occam's razor to cut it out.
Also, appeal to authority.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #72 on: May 09, 2014, 08:36:33 PM »
Actually, Einstein wrote about Special Relativity in 1905.  He did not mention Aether or Ether back then.  15 or 20 years later, he used the term in all his speeches (exaggeration).  It appears that Einstein realized that there must be an Aether while he was envisioning General Relativity, many years after SR. 
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V

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Re: Explain me this
« Reply #73 on: May 09, 2014, 08:54:37 PM »
Quote from: jroa on May 09, 2014, 08:36:33 PM
Actually, Einstein wrote about Special Relativity in 1905.  He did not mention Aether or Ether back then.  15 or 20 years later, he used the term in all his speeches (exaggeration).  It appears that Einstein realized that there must be an Aether while he was envisioning General Relativity, many years after SR.
You are avoiding the real question which is the proof.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #74 on: May 09, 2014, 09:01:12 PM »
Are you asking for proof that Einstein believed in the Aether, or that he believed in the Aether after he published his theories about Special Relativity? 
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Vauxhall

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #75 on: May 09, 2014, 09:05:03 PM »
Aether has been observed by several reputable Flat Earth scientists in highly controlled test environments. We know it's there. You don't. That's the only difference between us.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 09:16:25 PM by Vauxhall »
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Vauxhall

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2014, 09:18:27 PM »
Unless you're asking me to replicate experiments that were highly expensive with a variety of intrsuments that I frankly don't have, then you're just going to have to take our word for it.

Unless you want to fund my kickstarter?
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V

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Re: Explain me this
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2014, 09:19:56 PM »
Quote from: jroa on May 09, 2014, 09:01:12 PM
Are you asking for proof that Einstein believed in the Aether, or that he believed in the Aether after he published his theories about Special Relativity?
No, I want any experimental evidence that the ether exists.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #78 on: May 09, 2014, 09:25:35 PM »
Do I need to list all of Nikola Tesla's experiments, or maybe you can Google them for yourself? 
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V

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Re: Explain me this
« Reply #79 on: May 09, 2014, 09:56:59 PM »
Quote from: jroa on May 09, 2014, 09:25:35 PM
Do I need to list all of Nikola Tesla's experiments, or maybe you can Google them for yourself?
As said before, Tesla was a genius but he was often full of shit.
I don't think any of his experiments provided conclusive proof.
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Vauxhall

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Re: Explain me this
« Reply #80 on: May 09, 2014, 10:18:30 PM »
Quote from: V on May 09, 2014, 09:19:56 PM
Quote from: jroa on May 09, 2014, 09:01:12 PM
Are you asking for proof that Einstein believed in the Aether, or that he believed in the Aether after he published his theories about Special Relativity?
No, I want any experimental evidence that the ether exists.


First of all... "Ether" is a completely different thing. Please call it aether.
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #81 on: May 10, 2014, 02:16:10 AM »
Quote from: jroa on May 09, 2014, 08:19:30 PM
But, the guy who created Special Relativity and General Relativity believed in the Aether.  Yet, now you are telling us that Relativity cancels out Aether?  Maybe you are smarter than Einstein?
*yawn* 

Einstein also thought the world was round.  Maybe you are smarter than Einstein?*










*I really don't think you are.
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acesuv

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #82 on: May 10, 2014, 02:19:29 AM »
Quote from: jroa on May 07, 2014, 09:57:32 PM
The speed of light is measured in a vacuum.  When you send a EM pulse to the moon, it is traveling through air and aether.  If we then calculate the distance using the speed of light in a vacuum, then yes, it will appear that the moon is farther than it really is.
LOL at you and your 1800s ad hoc
aether theory is a joke of science you realize. it is COMPLETELY ad hoc. no evidence whatsoever, and actually quite a few experiments POKING HOLES IN IT, REQUIRING FURTHER TINKERINGS TO THE THEORY. IT IS AD. HOC. GOOD BYE SIR
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11cookeaw1

Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #83 on: May 10, 2014, 02:23:09 AM »
And the FE'ers have yet put forward a SINGLE piece of evidence that aether exists.
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Goddamnit, Clown

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #84 on: May 10, 2014, 07:07:09 AM »
Quote from: jroa on May 09, 2014, 08:19:30 PM
But, the guy who created Special Relativity and General Relativity believed in the Aether.  Yet, now you are telling us that Relativity cancels out Aether?  Maybe you are smarter than Einstein?

Of course not, I just don't wet myself when a real scientist recycles the word ether to describe a new relativistic effect for a couple of years.
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Goddamnit, Clown

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Re: Explain me this
« Reply #85 on: May 10, 2014, 07:08:02 AM »
Quote from: Vauxhall on May 09, 2014, 10:18:30 PM
First of all... "Ether" is a completely different thing. Please call it aether.

A valid alternate spelling saves me a keystroke and saves you lot from sounding even more like 16th century alchemists. It seemed like a win-win.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #86 on: May 10, 2014, 07:25:33 AM »
Sir Isaac Newton was a 17/18th century alchemist.  Yet, his works are still taught to high schoolers. 
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acesuv

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #87 on: May 10, 2014, 02:40:03 PM »
Quote from: jroa on May 10, 2014, 07:25:33 AM
Sir Isaac Newton was a 17/18th century alchemist.  Yet, his works are still taught to high schoolers.
i cant believe you just said that. youre a fucking moron and you have no right to say what you said. newtons LAWS OF PHYSICS are still taught. his alchemy is NOT. his laws of motion are VERY accurate on any scale that youll experience. newtonian physics is an intro to more complex physics in the future. newtons laws of physics are DEMONSTRABLE. your aether is NOT.
you can NOT equate newtons laws of motions to the fact that you havent demonstrated aether. NO
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #88 on: May 10, 2014, 02:44:29 PM »
What are you so upset about?  I was insulted at being called a 16th century alchemist and I simply made a factual statement.  No need to get your panties in a wad over it. 
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RealScientist

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Re: Gravitational conundrums
« Reply #89 on: May 10, 2014, 03:08:20 PM »
Quote from: jroa on May 09, 2014, 09:01:12 PM
Are you asking for proof that Einstein believed in the Aether, or that he believed in the Aether after he published his theories about Special Relativity?

You are consciously equivocating two different things. Luminiferous Aether, which was totally contradicted by Relativity, and some work in progress that Einstein attempted some 10 or 20 years later, and which did not produce any actual theories.

We do not know why Einstein gave the name "aether" to the properties of vacuum (space devoid of all matter) but the name is irrelevant because that work in progress never produced any scientific theories or areas of study that other scientists could develop.

These "discoveries" of scientific breakthroughs that every scientist in the world missed, but that an anonymous non-scientist couch potato found hidden in plain sight, have a simple reason: Scientists work on actual Science, while the couch potatoes are "quote mining".
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