God does not exist

i dont like your attitude, YOU AUSTRALIAN SHITFACE. you are australian. it is a sin to be australian.

so, i guess you dont believe in a literal version of the bible then?  :?

the bible is the diary of a madman.

the bible is the diary of a madman.

then why do you talk of sin?

well even though the bible is just some insane ramblings i do have the right to talk about sin sin is just the word for doing something wrong and i think it is wrong to come from australia and even though we should all love eachother im not going to love someone from australia do you want to enter my invisible spaceship?

Quote from: "Ubuntu"

Quote from: "Zerath"

Unlike FE or RE god can not be disproved. So really theres no point in talking about it. Not that you'll listen.

Well, we can't prove that pandas exist, so why bother talking about whether they're going extinct or not?

 

Whats your point? That gods real? fake?

My point is that a god's existence would have a tremendous effect on the Universe, and that belief in any deity has tremendous effect on all people.

Dude, I've never seen somebody as dedicated as you are to try and simplify the definition of words to "What I believe it to mean." If you cannot recognize that there are different meanings to this word, "God," for different people, then you're the one who's being foolish. When you say "God does not exist," you obviously have some meaning of the word that you're actually using--otherwise you wouldn't be using it. You seem to mean, much of the time, "the Judeo-Christian God does not exist." Yet you, more than anybody else I've ever seen I think, force yourself to not recognize any other meaning of the word. It's ridiculous.

When I say "there is no God" this means...

a) all organized theistic religions and holy books are false

b) there are no conscious omniscient or omnipotent beings

c) there are no entities that operate in a supernatural way

d) reality/the universe was not created by a sentience

e) there is no interactive energy that connects all matter and consciousness

Anything else is not "God" anymore than a clock is a computer.

Why are we even arguing with a fat old woman?

OMG I LOVE THE TRIPLETS OF BELLVILLE!

Ubuntu, I think you're confusing this character "God" (traditionally the name of the Judeo-Christian deity) with the term "god."

Knight, you claim that all the specific deities invented by human religions are false because we know they were invented by humans. Yet the *concept* of god was also invented by humans. By the same logic, shouldn't the whole concept of god also be false?

Knight, you claim that all the specific deities invented by human religions are false because we know they were invented by humans.

I hope I didn't say that.  The way I know that specific deities do not exist is based on whether or not their characteristics are logically impossible.  If a deity, say "God," were to have characteristics that are impossible, then I can safely rule out the foundational existence of that character.  I do believe that that character "God" as well as every other deity I've ever thought of (Zeus, Aphrodite, etc.) exist (but at a metaphysical level of "If it is conceived in thought, it exists").  But that's  beside the point.

Yet the *concept* of god was also invented by humans. By the same logic, shouldn't the whole concept of god also be false?

It depends on what you're referring to.  I think you're saying "_____ is false because it has been proven that it was invented by humans."

In that case, anything that has ever been conceived by human consciousness would be false.  Keep in mind that the concept 'god' is ambiguous.  It does not refer to any one thing.  Often times philosophically the concept 'god' actually does not describe a thing with certain characteristics (a deity), but instead describes an activity (verb).

Knight, please tell us more about the concept of God, or a god.


Less popular than the Wii article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

I already described it on the fifth post down here:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4516&start=360

I already described it on the fifth post down here:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4516&start=360

I can't find anything you wrote about God or god... religion, but not supernatural creators.

Oh I'm dumb.  I thought I had written about it before but it turns out it was just the post that I posted above.

Basically I was referring to the theological (and metaphysical) distinction between God (the character in the Bible, or a 'god') and god (an ambiguous term that can mean many things).  Something my professor told me was that the only concept of 'god' that is really possible (logically) is a 'god' concept that means "to be" (a verb).  However, I think that it's possible, on a much more local level, that our world can still have a God character.  We'll be discussing it again in class tomorrow.  Interesting stuff.  I think I'm going to read The End of Faith or Letter to a Christian Nation over Christmas break.

I think I'm going to read The End of Faith or Letter to a Christian Nation over Christmas break.

The God Delusion makes the perfect Christmas gift!










'The percentage of people in European countries who said in 2005 that they believe in God. Countries with Catholic or Muslim majorities tend to poll highest.'

I'll also read Dawkins's books and also The Language of God.  Not all over Christmas break though.

I had intended to read The Language of God, however after reading TIME's interview with Dawkins and Collins, I was disappointed with the poverty of Collins' arguments. Personally I'd rather re-read Finding Darwin's God.

Hey guys, here are two really good debaters arguing Atheism vs. Theism:  

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7278326259607745595&q=Atheist+debate&hl=en

i see GOD in every one of us !  :idea:

but if god is in everyone of us we dont exist because god doesnt not exist because i know that because it is the worms that made the earth and the earth is shaped like a cone and that may be because i like balls and i made the worms of the center of the universe so i know because i am your overfiend and that is because once i saw this peach and it fell of the tree and it landed near my hip so i ate it yummi.

Hey guys, here are two really good debaters arguing Atheism vs. Theism:  

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7278326259607745595&q=Atheist+debate&hl=en

That was an OK debate.  I haven't seen many, so I couldn't really compare.

My biggest problem is that the Humanist/Atheist kept arguing passages from the bible against the other guy's "morality" statements, to which he claimed that "the fallibility of the bible is not the issue" or some shit like that.

Of course, we've already had that argument here--where I stated that if the Bible is not literally true, it is pretty much useless and does not really work in justifying the Christian Myth.  Of course, there was a big stink about that here about there being good moral in it, but that's not the point.

The Bible is the only piece of significant physical "evidence" that the Christians have.  There's really nothing else before or after the New Testament that confirms anything about their beliefs.  Many claim that Science itself confirms a God just because of the complexity of reality, but much like Michael Shermer said in that video in the Dr. Dino thread, replacing an unexplained event with "God did it!" still doesn't explain a damn thing, and that is NOT science.

Morality indeed is relative, as is ethics, which is the one thing the Theist in this debate doesn't take into account.  Hitler indeed did believe that the Jews were greedy, horrible people, and believed that they were ruining his country.  So, he decided to eradicate them from his country, as well as the countries that were conquered during his reign.  This seems so terrible in retrospect, but many people in the country, even the region felt the same way.  Even the Vatican deliberately did not take any action to oppose Germany during this whole ordeal.  Anti-semitism is still very prevalent in Germany today, Nazi or not.

Slavery still exists in many places in Africa as well, which is plenty of evidence that morality is relative.  Relative to what, I couldn't really say--education, perhaps.  But the fact is, there isn't really a completely common view on morality in the world, and the Theist in that video's argument does not hold any water.

The Humanist, however, hit the nail on the head.  If morality is set by God, then we should all still be killing thousands of innocent non-believers including men, women, and children; stoning homosexuals, fortunetellers, and defiant children; and all sorts of other horrid things as described in the bible.

That seemed to be the biggest issue in the debate by far, and I don't think either of them argued it very well.  But oh well.

Anyone have any other good debates?  This stuff is really interesting, and my TV is in the shop right now, so I need stuff to watch!

Go to Google Video and type "Atheist Debate" or any other phrase.

Well, I meant more in the way of suggestions.  Finding a video on Google Video doesn't guarantee a good debate.  (Especially if Kent Hovind is involved )

He's a good debater.  Just look for some, watch part of them, and see if it's any good.

He is indeed a good debater, but he's still full of shit.  ;P

I found THIS debate to be VERY good.  James Bower is now one of my new heros.  I found it hilarious how pissed off and impatient Pendelton started getting about halfway through the debate.  I bet from his point of view, he was getting smashed--and I would be inclined to agree.

The results of the survey that was conducted that night are very disappointing, though.  Amazing how many people are so stubborn in their mystical beliefs...

That's one of the debates I actually started watching but the sound was horrible so I didn't.  Now that you've told me it's good I'll give it a watch when I have the chance.  But the sound is horrible.  And the balloon thing was dumb.

God exists. I have grown close to Him over the years and His presence is felt inside of me. I know there is no way of proving this to others, since it can only be proved to oneself. Also, there is no way for an Athiest to explain miracles, healing, and exorcism. I would suggest reading the book Can Man Live Without God by Ravi Zacharias which disproves many claims made by Athiests. (Athiesm is a state of belief as is religion)

Thanks for the reference to the book, I'll check it out sometime.  I've felt the same feeling as you at times.  For a long time I believed that it was the Christian God that I felt inside of me, but now I can see that it could be many other possible things.  It's an interesting topic to meditate on.

Also, there is no way for an Athiest to explain miracles, healing, and exorcism.

Sure there is. Miracles don't exist, although coincidences and luck do, and are sometimes labeled as miracles. Exorcism doesn't exist, but some con-men manage to scam people into paying them to perform it anyways. Healing of course does exist, but if you mean miracle or faith healing, it can be explained by similar means as exorcism and miracles, together with the remarkably strong connection between mind and body. This connection can literally cause the mind to heal the body of certain ills by simply believing strongly enough. This is a medically documented fact, and is, among other things, the reason that medical tests give placebos to the control group, rather than leaving them completely unmedicated.

Quote from: "UmExcuseMe"

Also, there is no way for an Athiest to explain miracles, healing, and exorcism.

Sure there is. Miracles don't exist, although coincidences and luck do, and are sometimes labeled as miracles. Exorcism doesn't exist, but some con-men manage to scam people into paying them to perform it anyways. Healing of course does exist, but if you mean miracle or faith healing, it can be explained by similar means as exorcism and miracles, together with the remarkably strong connection between mind and body. This connection can literally cause the mind to heal the body of certain ills by simply believing strongly enough. This is a medically documented fact, and is, among other things, the reason that medical tests give placebos to the control group, rather than leaving them completely unmedicated.

Truth.