Samuel Birley Rowbotham - Academic Qualifications

The president of the society died shortly after the fire.  I don't know what you want from us, exactly. 

Does the word "research" not exist in the Flat Earther's vocabulary?

markjo, your oneliners used to sometimes make me chuckle while I would shake my head in disbelief.  I don't have that problem anymore.  You have been slipping farther and farther backwards. 

markjo, your oneliners used to sometimes make me chuckle while I would shake my head in disbelief.  I don't have that problem anymore.  You have been slipping farther and farther backwards.

So, you're proud of him? He's on the dark path to becoming a FE'er?

markjo will never be an FE'er.  We have tried for years.  It is like he has a disease or something that makes him make oneliners where ever he can, like a compulsion or something.  Maybe it is OCD, like the people who have to touch things, even when they do not want to. 

markjo will never be an FE'er.  We have tried for years.  It is like he has a disease or something that makes him make oneliners where ever he can, like a compulsion or something.  Maybe it is OCD, like the people who have to touch things, even when they do not want to.

I guess he will be like the billions of us. What a shame.

markjo will never be an FE'er.  We have tried for years.  It is like he has a disease or something that makes him make oneliners where ever he can, like a compulsion or something.  Maybe it is OCD, like the people who have to touch things, even when they do not want to.

Maybe he used to make more substantive posts, then realised that when they got handwaved away with a single line he was wasting his time....

He used to be halfway funny when I first joined.  However, apparently he was in decline at that time, based on all the baawing he received.  Now, it is like he is not even trying. 

markjo, your oneliners used to sometimes make me chuckle while I would shake my head in disbelief.  I don't have that problem anymore.  You have been slipping farther and farther backwards.

I'm sorry, I keep forgetting how much of a joke research is to FE'ers.  Am I the only one here that sees the irony in an FE'ers refusal to question the academic credentials (or apparent lack thereof) of the father modern skepticism (A.K.A., Zeteticism)?

We are all questioning it and researching it.  Or, at least I am.  I will keep you up to date on my findings, but please, grow a funny bone. 

I will keep you up to date on my findings, but please, grow a funny bone.

I'm sorry, I thought that this was one of the "serious" forums.  Or do FE'ers have a different definition of "serious" than RE'ers?

Does the word "research" not exist in the Flat Earther's vocabulary?

There are lots of other words that do not exist in the Flat Earther's vocabulary......"Reality" for one.

Most organizations have their own archivists or historian who have kept records and mementos, such as diplomas and other information on their founders, early meetings, etc. The Flat Earth Society seems to have none of this.

As far as being funny, the longer you visit this website, the funnier it gets and the more you realize how true the saying is "It is either one big hoax or one big joke."

I took it seriously at first on a thread I started with just a simple example of a known fact and how one group had done some operations. I was first amazed at all the stupid and inane posts that the FE's posted. And then I realized how funny it got. It got really hilarious. So now I just sit back and enjoy the fun.

However, I still can't resist the temptation to post a bit of reality from time to time such as the reports from the archivists at The University of Edinburgh, pictures of the Lunar Eclipse ,etc.

Thanks for the entertainment, FES.

You're not as funny as the Bud Abbott and Lou Costello "Who's on first ?" routine, but keep it up. You are doing a fair job as comedians.

Quote from: jroa on May 01, 2014, 06:38:39 PM

What do you not understand about most of the documents burning in a house fire in the 20th century?

If those documents were valuable enough you could go the University or their source  and get verified copies of them. You can do this for copies of your transcripts for example. For example when I enrolled in a different college, I had to have a copy of my transcipt for proof of subjects which were eligible for transfer from one college to the other.

I am assuming that if Rowbotham atttended some other college he would need to have some form of evidence to present to the college where he intended to work on earning his PhD. If the records had been destroyed in the fire, he most certainly would have made efforts to obtain verified copies, if only for his personal records.

If the documents were this valuable would not Rowotham done this  ? This would certainly have removed any doubts about the credibility of his academic qualifications. Why weren't these records passed on to the FES ? I should think if those documents were destroyed after Rowbotham's death,the FES would have made efforts to obtain verified copies for their records.

You really expect us to have documentation from the mid-1800's on hand? Nearly the entirety of the American Society's records were destroyed in a fire, as has been stated. I'm sorry Charles did not put photocopies of all the records in a safe deposit box and hand me a key.

Quote from: markjo on May 02, 2014, 06:08:57 AM

Does the word "research" not exist in the Flat Earther's vocabulary?

However, I still can't resist the temptation to post a bit of reality from time to time such as the reports from the archivists at The University of Edinburgh

Oddly enough, I can't get a reply from those same archivists. Why is that?

Quote from: jroa on May 02, 2014, 09:23:49 AM

I will keep you up to date on my findings, but please, grow a funny bone.

I'm sorry, I thought that this was one of the "serious" forums.  Or do FE'ers have a different definition of "serious" than RE'ers?

In the serious fora, we try to keep everything serious.  However, every once in a while, someone will joke around.  This is tolerated.  However, do not expect to joke around if you can not take joking around back at you.  In other words, don't markjo a thread. 

Quote from: Googleotomy on April 30, 2014, 09:27:40 AM

Quote from: Ski on April 24, 2014, 03:28:13 PM

I did not speculate that this is what she did. I asked if that is what she did, because previous of the responses I have received to inquiries of the very same nature.

I have actually written Rona, and will update you with the response, if any.

Ski, have you heard from Rona Morrison ? She was fairly prompt in getting back to me on what she had found - or not found - on the search for Rowbotham and/or Birley.

I have also written to her that you were interested in contacting her , to expect an e-mail from you, and I hoped she would get in touch with you and answer any questions you might have as she did on my inquiry.
I haven't heard anything further from Ms. Rona Morrison.

I haven't received anything :/

Is she answering you? Perhaps I could forward you the text via PM and you could nag her...

It took a few days, but I had no problems in getting replies from the University of Edinburgh, but you haven't posted any results on your inquiry, ski.

I (and we ?) are still waiting to see what you found ?

Quote-
"Yes , if he had graduated from here we should have a record of him. There is one Charles Birley in our medical matrics, from Northumberland, here 1846, that is all I have found.
I will close this 'unidesk' query now, if you need to contact me again please email :
rona.morrison@ed.ac.uk
Best,
Rona"

This is a repeat of a previous post. It is listed just as a review.The request was made for a search on "Samuel Birley Rowbotham" and "S. Birley." The original post is probably on one of the previous pages of posts.

I sent an e-mail to Ms. Rona Morrison that you ski had sent an e-mail to her but had received no replies.

This is just a wild thought. Maybe we have been on a wild goose chase ? Could "Samuel Birley Rowbotham" have been an alias in itself of someone who had an entirely different name ?  It sounds a bit like the fictitious names of some of those characters in the "Sherlock Holmes" stories by Doyle and those of Dickens for example ?
"Thomas Augustus Milverton" and "Ebenezer Scrooge" for examples ?

Quote from: Ski on April 30, 2014, 11:02:14 AM

Quote from: Googleotomy on April 30, 2014, 09:27:40 AM

Quote from: Ski on April 24, 2014, 03:28:13 PM

I did not speculate that this is what she did. I asked if that is what she did, because previous of the responses I have received to inquiries of the very same nature.

I have actually written Rona, and will update you with the response, if any.

Ski, have you heard from Rona Morrison ? She was fairly prompt in getting back to me on what she had found - or not found - on the search for Rowbotham and/or Birley.

I have also written to her that you were interested in contacting her , to expect an e-mail from you, and I hoped she would get in touch with you and answer any questions you might have as she did on my inquiry.
I haven't heard anything further from Ms. Rona Morrison.

I haven't received anything :/

Is she answering you? Perhaps I could forward you the text via PM and you could nag her...

It took a few days, but I had no problems in getting replies from the University of Edinburgh, but you haven't posted any results on your inquiry, ski.

I (and we ?) are still waiting to see what you found ?

I have found they do not answer my quite reasonably phrased inquiry. Nothing else.

Quote from: markjo on May 02, 2014, 09:46:49 AM

Quote from: jroa on May 02, 2014, 09:23:49 AM

I will keep you up to date on my findings, but please, grow a funny bone.

I'm sorry, I thought that this was one of the "serious" forums.  Or do FE'ers have a different definition of "serious" than RE'ers?

In the serious fora, we try to keep everything serious.  However, every once in a while, someone will joke around.  This is tolerated.  However, do not expect to joke around if you can not take joking around back at you.  In other words, don't markjo a thread.

What makes you think that I was joking around in this thread?

Quote from: Ski on April 30, 2014, 11:02:14 AM

Quote from: Googleotomy on April 30, 2014, 09:27:40 AM

Quote from: Ski on April 24, 2014, 03:28:13 PM

I did not speculate that this is what she did. I asked if that is what she did, because previous of the responses I have received to inquiries of the very same nature.

I have actually written Rona, and will update you with the response, if any.

Ski, have you heard from Rona Morrison ? She was fairly prompt in getting back to me on what she had found - or not found - on the search for Rowbotham and/or Birley.

I have also written to her that you were interested in contacting her , to expect an e-mail from you, and I hoped she would get in touch with you and answer any questions you might have as she did on my inquiry.
I haven't heard anything further from Ms. Rona Morrison.

I haven't received anything :/

Is she answering you? Perhaps I could forward you the text via PM and you could nag her...

It took a few days, but I had no problems in getting replies from the University of Edinburgh, but you haven't posted any results on your inquiry, ski.

I (and we ?) are still waiting to see what you found ?

I can't say for sure of the timeframe from your first email until the first reply, but you were speaking about the correspondence as if she was answering you fairly quickly.  This was also true of the email ski had sent you, I think it was maybe one day later that you reported back with a response.

Quote from: Googleotomy on May 02, 2014, 10:13:00 AM

Quote from: Ski on April 30, 2014, 11:02:14 AM

Quote from: Googleotomy on April 30, 2014, 09:27:40 AM

Quote from: Ski on April 24, 2014, 03:28:13 PM

I did not speculate that this is what she did. I asked if that is what she did, because previous of the responses I have received to inquiries of the very same nature.

I have actually written Rona, and will update you with the response, if any.

Ski, have you heard from Rona Morrison ? She was fairly prompt in getting back to me on what she had found - or not found - on the search for Rowbotham and/or Birley.

I have also written to her that you were interested in contacting her , to expect an e-mail from you, and I hoped she would get in touch with you and answer any questions you might have as she did on my inquiry.
I haven't heard anything further from Ms. Rona Morrison.

I haven't received anything :/

Is she answering you? Perhaps I could forward you the text via PM and you could nag her...

It took a few days, but I had no problems in getting replies from the University of Edinburgh, but you haven't posted any results on your inquiry, ski.

I (and we ?) are still waiting to see what you found ?

I can't say for sure of the timeframe from your first email until the first reply, but you were speaking about the correspondence as if she was answering you fairly quickly.  This was also true of the email ski had sent you, I think it was maybe one day later that you reported back with a response.

I would have to check back as to the time frame, but the reply was returned fairly promptly. Maybe I was just luckier and caught them at a time when they weren't so busy and they had some free time to look into the matter.

Just checked back . The latest inquiry was dated 29 April and the reply was dated 1 May.

I also assumed she , or they ? -, might be a team ? - had done a fairly thorough search since they did find one match for "Birley" in 1846.

It was the on the 24th of April that at request I sent this missive to Ms. Morrison at the address supplied for her as the user known as Googleotomy had stated he had told her I may write:

Hi Rona,

     I'm writing you in reference to Samuel Rowbotham's alleged attendance at Edinburgh in light of contemporary commentary that he studied there.

     Can you tell me the process you have used to search for this information, as in years past I have been told the physical registration lists were neither digitalized nor available for perusal? If this has changed, it is a welcome change. If I may trouble you to look for "S. Goulden", "Tryon", and "Birley" among said archives, it would certainly be appreciated..

     This process has been particularly daunting in light of the fact that before the Registrar of the GMC under the Medical Act of 1858, there were no less than 19 independent licensing bodies in the UK at that time.
 
     Also, are there any other avenues to pursue the subect of Dr. Rowbotham's Victorian medical practice? Can you suggest a department or organization to send a Freedom of Information Act request which may yield fruit?


Thank you kindly for your time and effort,

If you have received several replies in the meantime, I can only assume that they intend to keep the Society in the dark, which is no surprise to me given their previous replies. Perhaps they do not want to sully the name of the University with the presence of a planist historical figure. In any event, I/we still do not know what that search by Ms. Morrison has entailed.
If anyone else has any avenues to pursue, I am all ears.

It was the on the 24th of April that at request I sent this missive to Ms. Morrison at the address supplied for her as the user known as Googleotomy had stated he had told her I may write:

Quote

Hi Rona,

     I'm writing you in reference to Samuel Rowbotham's alleged attendance at Edinburgh in light of contemporary commentary that he studied there.

     Can you tell me the process you have used to search for this information, as in years past I have been told the physical registration lists were neither digitalized nor available for perusal? If this has changed, it is a welcome change. If I may trouble you to look for "S. Goulden", "Tryon", and "Birley" among said archives, it would certainly be appreciated..

     This process has been particularly daunting in light of the fact that before the Registrar of the GMC under the Medical Act of 1858, there were no less than 19 independent licensing bodies in the UK at that time.
 
     Also, are there any other avenues to pursue the subect of Dr. Rowbotham's Victorian medical practice? Can you suggest a department or organization to send a Freedom of Information Act request which may yield fruit?


Thank you kindly for your time and effort,

If you have received several replies in the meantime, I can only assume that they intend to keep the Society in the dark, which is no surprise to me given their previous replies. Perhaps they do not want to sully the name of the University with the presence of a planist historical figure. In any event, I/we still do not know what that search by Ms. Morrison has entailed.
If anyone else has any avenues to pursue, I am all ears.

This was the wording of my e-mail.:

Quote:
"It seems that Rowbotham used several other names, including "Dr. S. Birley, MD PhD" . Would it have been possible for the MD and PhD to be in that name in the records ?

jroa has said it's OK to joke around a bit so here goes.

It is becoming apparent that the search for the  so-called academic qualifications about one "Samuel Birley Rowbotham" have about as much evidence and hold about as much water as the so-called "Ice Ring." Grooooooaaaaannnn. That was a horrible pun.

And let's be honest and let's be real....Which is something FE's don't really do on this website.....I think if you were on the staff of a university research or archives department  and got a request from some person who signed themself as a member of The Flat Earth Society, you might be a just a tad bit bit reluctant to reply  ?

I said nothing about the Society, including only my full name.

I'm not sure why you are so disparaging about his title. As stated, even if he did not graduate from Edinburgh, it was not uncommon for people to study at university's without documentation, nor is it impossible that he graduated elsewhere before or after studying at Edinburgh, nor that that he was licensed through one of the many licensing bodies that existed at the time.

In addition, you are ignoring that not a single instance has been presented in contemporary accounts wherein he was called anything but doctor by anyone -- including his adversaries. To take the stance that he was not a doctor would also mean that you believed the Bookseller editor to be in on the conspiracy in 1885, naming him a doctor with a flourishing and legitimate practice, or that the AAAS in publishing one of the most respected scientific journals calls anyone and their brother doctor without regard for their actual career or qualifications.

I said nothing about the Society, including only my full name.

I'm not sure why you are so disparaging about his title. As stated, even if he did not graduate from Edinburgh, it was not uncommon for people to study at university's without documentation, nor is it impossible that he graduated elsewhere before or after studying at Edinburgh, nor that that he was licensed through one of the many licensing bodies that existed at the time.

In addition, you are ignoring that not a single instance has been presented in contemporary accounts wherein he was called anything but doctor by anyone -- including his adversaries. To take the stance that he was not a doctor would also mean that you believed the Bookseller editor to be in on the conspiracy in 1885, naming him a doctor with a flourishing and legitimate practice, or that the AAAS in publishing one of the most respected scientific journals calls anyone and their brother doctor without regard for their actual career or qualifications.

Once more.:
The question was not whether or not Rowbotham practiced medicine. He could have practiced medicine without a license.
The question was whether or not his claims for his MD and PhD degrees were genuine.

Quote from: Ski on May 02, 2014, 02:27:28 PM

I said nothing about the Society, including only my full name.

I'm not sure why you are so disparaging about his title. As stated, even if he did not graduate from Edinburgh, it was not uncommon for people to study at university's without documentation, nor is it impossible that he graduated elsewhere before or after studying at Edinburgh, nor that that he was licensed through one of the many licensing bodies that existed at the time.

In addition, you are ignoring that not a single instance has been presented in contemporary accounts wherein he was called anything but doctor by anyone -- including his adversaries. To take the stance that he was not a doctor would also mean that you believed the Bookseller editor to be in on the conspiracy in 1885, naming him a doctor with a flourishing and legitimate practice, or that the AAAS in publishing one of the most respected scientific journals calls anyone and their brother doctor without regard for their actual career or qualifications.

Once more.:
The question was not whether or not Rowbotham practiced medicine. He could have practiced medicine without a license.

Which begs the question why the Bookseller would call his practice "legitimate" in that light, does it not? Perhaps legitimate meant something completely different in the 1880's.

Perhaps legitimate meant something completely different in the 1880's.

Perhaps it did.  After all, do you really believe that the standards for a legitimate medical practice were the same 150 years ago as they are today.

Quote from: Ski on May 02, 2014, 06:03:04 PM

Perhaps legitimate meant something completely different in the 1880's.

Perhaps it did.  After all, do you really believe that the standards for a legitimate medical practice were the same 150 years ago as they are today.

Which also begs the question of which report you believe.
The Bookseller of the 1800's or the wikipedia of the 2000's ?

Quote from: Ski on May 02, 2014, 06:03:04 PM

Perhaps legitimate meant something completely different in the 1880's.

Perhaps it did.  After all, do you really believe that the standards for a legitimate medical practice were the same 150 years ago as they are today.

I'm confused amid your constant efforts to move the goal posts. Are you saying that all Victorian doctors were frauds without license or just the ones who were planists? Do you have any evidence at all to support your claim?