Day-night cycle

Light can not travel infinitely through air.  Air is not perfectly transparent. 

Nobody has claimed that the sun is a spotlight.  It simply acts like a spotlight.

That, my good sir, is impossible.

Light can not travel infinitely through air.  Air is not perfectly transparent. 

And?

And?

And what?  The sun can't light the whole Earth at once because the air blocks the light.

Quote from: Donk3y on April 11, 2014, 06:39:47 AM

And?

And what?  The sun can't light the whole Earth at once because the air blocks the light.

Except that if you look at a partially obscured sun during a sunset, it is clear that the reason why we can't see the bottom portion of the sun cannot be because it is too far way since the top portion of the sun is clearly visible.

Quote from: Donk3y on April 11, 2014, 06:39:47 AM

And?

And what?  The sun can't light the whole Earth at once because the air blocks the light.

Then you should be able to fly at a very high altitude in an airplane above the 80% of the air and see the sun.

You can.  You can see the sun for a longer amount of time from a high aircraft than  you can from the ground. 

You can.  You can see the sun for a longer amount of time from a high aircraft than  you can from the ground.

Which would be impossible if the sun never drops below the horizon

It doesn't drop below the horizon.  It is just an optical illusion. 

It doesn't drop below the horizon.  It is just an optical illusion.

An optical illusion created by what, exactly? You claim the sun is constantly above us, rotating around our north pole at various points on your map. There is nothing your theory that would even come close to explaining how the sun being on the horizon is an optical illusion

Perspective.  As something moves away from you, it appears to get closer to the horizon because of perspective.  Look it up. 

Perspective.  As something moves away from you, it appears to get closer to the horizon because of perspective.  Look it up.

closer? sure, but if it's ABOVE  you by 3000 miles it would never "appear" to go below you, unless it actually is.

Perspective.  As something moves away from you, it appears to get closer to the horizon because of perspective.  Look it up.

We can scale it down. Put a small sun on a flat plane and I can assure that there is no way to make the sun dissapear bottom first. If its going to disappear at all, its going to get very small and disappear all at once.

Quote from: jroa on April 11, 2014, 07:07:31 AM

Perspective.  As something moves away from you, it appears to get closer to the horizon because of perspective.  Look it up.

closer? sure, but if it's ABOVE  you by 3000 miles it would never "appear" to go below you, unless it actually is.

How can something appear to go somewhere that you can not see?  It gets closer to the horizon because of perspective, and then fades away because of the air blocking the light.  It is just an optical illusion. 

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 11, 2014, 07:16:05 AM

Quote from: jroa on April 11, 2014, 07:07:31 AM

Perspective.  As something moves away from you, it appears to get closer to the horizon because of perspective.  Look it up.

closer? sure, but if it's ABOVE  you by 3000 miles it would never "appear" to go below you, unless it actually is.

How can something appear to go somewhere that you can not see?  It gets closer to the horizon because of perspective, and then fades away because of the air blocking the light.  It is just an optical illusion.

Since when did the sun fade away? Now if it actually did that then we could give you some credit. But it doesn't. It dissapears below the horizon, bottom first. Just as it should if the earth is a globe.

I would say that night proves that the sun is not visible.  Would you not agree? 

Also, you should get on IRC again. 

I would say that night proves that the sun is not visible.  Would you not agree? 

Also, you should get on IRC again.

Yes indeed.

And sure... I'll be on in a few.

Quote from: Donk3y on April 11, 2014, 06:39:47 AM

And?

And what?  The sun can't light the whole Earth at once because the air blocks the light.

LOL!
You're greatly exaggerating the amount of light absorbed by the atmosphere xD

Okay let's make a simple test, let's take the sun and the earth. Let's take 2 points on the earth, New York and France. They are at a distance X from one another. The sun is directly over New York and the light reaches it and you can see daylight. Let's say the distance between the earth and the sun is Y. Now from the sun to France, in your example, the light loses all energy and it doesn't reach France, so it's night in France. Let's say the distance from the sun to France is Z.

Now the distance the light must travel to reach France would be Z = SQRT(X^2 + Y^2). The distance is minuscule. If Y = 10000 km and X = 1000 km, then Z (distance from sun to France) =~ 10050 km. THAT difference is NOT noticeable...
It's even worse for you since most of the distance from the sun to the earth is vacuum, not air xD

So yeah, this claim is officially BULLSHIT.

Are you claiming that light can travel infinitely through the air?

Are you claiming that light can travel infinitely through the air?

Irrelevant in light of the observations. A hypothesis about air density would only from a sun that fades away. Again, it does not.

Are you claiming that light can travel infinitely through the air?

No, I'm claiming that the distance traveled by the light is not enough for it to be completely invisible as you claim it to be.

What is happening here?  Is the sun setting below the horizon (the edge of your theoretical disk) or is it getting too far away to see?  If it were getting farther away it would simply get smaller and smaller until it was no longer visible, while always staying above the horizon.

This is a perfect example of perspective. Also the horizon is notably uncurved at the rate of 25,000 miles per circumference.
The vanishing point in this case is at the centre of the sun/light bulb.

Are you claiming that light can travel infinitely through the air?

Here we go again...


Are you claiming Jesus could beat Superman in a fight?

Quote from: HeeHaw on April 10, 2014, 07:59:41 AM

What is happening here?  Is the sun setting below the horizon (the edge of your theoretical disk) or is it getting too far away to see?  If it were getting farther away it would simply get smaller and smaller until it was no longer visible, while always staying above the horizon.

This is a perfect example of perspective. Also the horizon is notably uncurved at the rate of 25,000 miles per circumference.
The vanishing point in this case is at the centre of the sun/light bulb.

I think you might need your eyes checked...

jroa (or another FE believer), please explain this:  Let's say the sun sets at 7:00pm tonight in Chicago.  At precisely that time, Mary, standing on the ground, sees the last bit of sun disappear.  At the same time, Joe is in a helicopter 15,000 feet directly above Mary.  Joe still sees the sun at 7:00pm, and he watches it approach the horizon and disappear 30 minutes or so later.

This phenomenon can only be explained by the sun dipping below the horizon, or even below the edge of the disk.  But there is no way Mary and Joe can experience this if the sun is always above the "disk".

Please explain how the FE model can explain this.

Perspective.  As something moves away from you, it appears to get closer to the horizon because of perspective.  Look it up.

A little closer, sure, possibly even appearing to meet the horizon so long as it's near ground level and you're just squinting without a telescope. But in the FE model the sun is at least several thousand km above the earth and common sense tells us that it would have to be hundreds of thousands of km away horizontally to get the optical illusion you're talking about.

jroa (or another FE believer), please explain this:  Let's say the sun sets at 7:00pm tonight in Chicago.  At precisely that time, Mary, standing on the ground, sees the last bit of sun disappear.  At the same time, Joe is in a helicopter 15,000 feet directly above Mary.  Joe still sees the sun at 7:00pm, and he watches it approach the horizon and disappear 30 minutes or so later.

This phenomenon can only be explained by the sun dipping below the horizon, or even below the edge of the disk.  But there is no way Mary and Joe can experience this if the sun is always above the "disk".

Please explain how the FE model can explain this.

The person in the helicopter has a lot less air to dissipate the light from the sun.  Of course they would be able to see it longer. 

Quote from: FlatAllTheWay on April 13, 2014, 02:19:50 PM

jroa (or another FE believer), please explain this:  Let's say the sun sets at 7:00pm tonight in Chicago.  At precisely that time, Mary, standing on the ground, sees the last bit of sun disappear.  At the same time, Joe is in a helicopter 15,000 feet directly above Mary.  Joe still sees the sun at 7:00pm, and he watches it approach the horizon and disappear 30 minutes or so later.

This phenomenon can only be explained by the sun dipping below the horizon, or even below the edge of the disk.  But there is no way Mary and Joe can experience this if the sun is always above the "disk".

Please explain how the FE model can explain this.

The person in the helicopter has a lot less air to dissipate the light from the sun.  Of course they would be able to see it longer.

What if you were as far back as far as you were up? I observe this much living in Alaska, sandwiched between the sea and the mountains. The mountains, being very tall, stay lit a lot longer than the town, however they are also farther back meaning more that air isn't the factor here.

The air density between the mountain and sun is far less dense than the air density between you and the sun. 

Let's hope Joe has oxygen. It's called 'perspective'.

Quote from: FlatAllTheWay on April 13, 2014, 02:19:50 PM

jroa (or another FE believer), please explain this:  Let's say the sun sets at 7:00pm tonight in Chicago.  At precisely that time, Mary, standing on the ground, sees the last bit of sun disappear.  At the same time, Joe is in a helicopter 15,000 feet directly above Mary.  Joe still sees the sun at 7:00pm, and he watches it approach the horizon and disappear 30 minutes or so later.

This phenomenon can only be explained by the sun dipping below the horizon, or even below the edge of the disk.  But there is no way Mary and Joe can experience this if the sun is always above the "disk".

Please explain how the FE model can explain this.

The person in the helicopter has a lot less air to dissipate the light from the sun.  Of course they would be able to see it longer.

No, air doesn't refract light THAT much.