Can a belief be so strong it clouds your vision?

Quote from: Starman on April 14, 2014, 12:31:36 PM

Quote from: jroa on April 14, 2014, 09:34:47 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on April 14, 2014, 01:23:10 AM

How can they not be where we are told, that is where dishes point to?  What else transmits their signals?

Where does the dish on your GPS receiver point?

You don't need a dish for GPS. GPS satellites are in low orbit.

Low orbit or high orbit makes no difference.  Are you saying that more vacuum space between the satellite and the receiver somehow blocks the signal?  Do you even understand the basics of the EM wave propagation?

Do you understand the implications of the inverse square law? From the above comment, I'm guessing not.

Quote from: jroa on April 14, 2014, 11:35:16 PM

Quote from: Starman on April 14, 2014, 12:31:36 PM

Quote from: jroa on April 14, 2014, 09:34:47 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on April 14, 2014, 01:23:10 AM

How can they not be where we are told, that is where dishes point to?  What else transmits their signals?

Where does the dish on your GPS receiver point?

You don't need a dish for GPS. GPS satellites are in low orbit.

Low orbit or high orbit makes no difference.  Are you saying that more vacuum space between the satellite and the receiver somehow blocks the signal?  Do you even understand the basics of the EM wave propagation?

Do you understand the implications of the inverse square law? From the above comment, I'm guessing not.

Do you not understand that it should not make any difference?  We have technology called "signal amplifiers" that have been around for more than a hundred years.  From your post, I would guess not. 

Quote from: Scintific Method on April 14, 2014, 11:40:08 PM

Quote from: jroa on April 14, 2014, 11:35:16 PM

Quote from: Starman on April 14, 2014, 12:31:36 PM

Quote from: jroa on April 14, 2014, 09:34:47 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on April 14, 2014, 01:23:10 AM

How can they not be where we are told, that is where dishes point to?  What else transmits their signals?

Where does the dish on your GPS receiver point?

You don't need a dish for GPS. GPS satellites are in low orbit.

Low orbit or high orbit makes no difference.  Are you saying that more vacuum space between the satellite and the receiver s3omehow blocks the signal?  Do you even understand the basics of the EM wave propagation?

Do you understand the implications of the inverse square law? From the above comment, I'm guessing not.

Do you not understand that it should not make any difference?  We have technology called "signal amplifiers" that have been around for more than a hundred years.  From your post, I would guess not.

The lower the signal level the more difficult to detect it from the noise.  What do you not understand about satellites?

The lower the signal level the more difficult to detect it from the noise.  What do you not understand about satellites?

Why do all satellites not have the same signal levels when they all receive the same amount of sun light to charge their batteries? 

Quote from: inquisitive on April 15, 2014, 12:14:58 AM

The lower the signal level the more difficult to detect it from the noise.  What do you not understand about satellites?

Why do all satellites not have the same signal levels when they all receive the same amount of sun light to charge their batteries?

Weird question. Depends on size of solar panels...  I suggest you read up about the different types of satellites.

Maybe you can educate me?

Maybe you can educate me?

There is plenty of information online, too much to post here.  As you know.

Why do you just post to tell people to look it up for themselves?  Seems counter productive. 

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 13, 2014, 11:57:14 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on April 13, 2014, 04:18:24 PM

Quote from: tappet on April 13, 2014, 04:07:13 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on April 13, 2014, 03:50:37 PM

Quote from: tappet on April 13, 2014, 03:41:56 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on April 13, 2014, 03:39:06 PM

Quote from: tappet on April 13, 2014, 03:35:31 PM

And then some of these satellites travel at 1,600 km/h, some travel at 27,000 km/h. A space shuttle approaches uses a jet blast to manoeuvre by pushing against something but what it pushes against does not change the speed of the satellite.
And I get constant tv.
Yeh right.

It's called technology. Learn about it, have you not wondered before how it works?

Its a red herring written by Arthur C Clarke.

Explain how satellite communications works.

How would I know. I have not got one.
I can go now and Google the answer. Then come back and parrot to you what you can parrot to me.
I have told you before, I don't deny the existence of satellites I just don't believe they fly around a ball the way we are told.

Pointless discussing this if you do not understand, for whatever reason, how they work.

So, I'm assuming you'd be able to build a satellite, launch it into orbit successfully, and operate it?
Tell me what you mean exactly by "how satellites work"?

Understanding the principles of how something works /= knowing how to build/operate it. I know how a combustion engine works; i can't build one. I know how an electric oven works, i can't build one. I know how a computer monitor works, I can't build one.

P.S. Thermo, I've never seen you actually say "I believe the Earth is Flat", all I've seen you doing is defending the position/ trying to use logical fallacies to thwart RE

I was just asking for a clarification on his statement.
Aside from that, if you know how a computer monitor works, why couldn't you order the necessary components and assemble them properly?
I'm defending the position that deserves to be defended.
If you can make my "logical fallacies" more apparent to me, feel free to do so.

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 14, 2014, 04:14:59 AM

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 13, 2014, 11:57:14 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on April 13, 2014, 04:18:24 PM

Quote from: tappet on April 13, 2014, 04:07:13 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on April 13, 2014, 03:50:37 PM

Quote from: tappet on April 13, 2014, 03:41:56 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on April 13, 2014, 03:39:06 PM

Quote from: tappet on April 13, 2014, 03:35:31 PM

And then some of these satellites travel at 1,600 km/h, some travel at 27,000 km/h. A space shuttle approaches uses a jet blast to manoeuvre by pushing against something but what it pushes against does not change the speed of the satellite.
And I get constant tv.
Yeh right.

It's called technology. Learn about it, have you not wondered before how it works?

Its a red herring written by Arthur C Clarke.

Explain how satellite communications works.

How would I know. I have not got one.
I can go now and Google the answer. Then come back and parrot to you what you can parrot to me.
I have told you before, I don't deny the existence of satellites I just don't believe they fly around a ball the way we are told.

Pointless discussing this if you do not understand, for whatever reason, how they work.

So, I'm assuming you'd be able to build a satellite, launch it into orbit successfully, and operate it?
Tell me what you mean exactly by "how satellites work"?

Understanding the principles of how something works /= knowing how to build/operate it. I know how a combustion engine works; i can't build one. I know how an electric oven works, i can't build one. I know how a computer monitor works, I can't build one.

P.S. Thermo, I've never seen you actually say "I believe the Earth is Flat", all I've seen you doing is defending the position/ trying to use logical fallacies to thwart RE

I was just asking for a clarification on his statement.
Aside from that, if you know how a computer monitor works, why couldn't you order the necessary components and assemble them properly?
I'm defending the position that deserves to be defended.
If you can make my "logical fallacies" more apparent to me, feel free to do so.

Because understanding the basics of how something works is a far cry from knowing how to design the circuit boards to make it function.

Maybe you should go defend the little kid on the playground, they need protected more than most of these ideas.

Because understanding the basics of how something works is a far cry from knowing how to design the circuit boards to make it function.

Maybe you should go defend the little kid on the playground, they need protected more than most of these ideas.

I could build a computer, but I don't know how to build a hard drive.
I would say I know the basics.
Where did this schoolchild come into play?

Why do you just post to tell people to look it up for themselves?  Seems counter productive.

Because it makes more sense than posting stuff here.  There is plenty of information available online about the detail of how satellites operate.  If you disagree with any of it then let us discuss it here.

Quote from: jroa on April 15, 2014, 01:02:37 AM

Why do you just post to tell people to look it up for themselves?  Seems counter productive.

Because it makes more sense than posting stuff here.  There is plenty of information available online about the detail of how satellites operate.  If you disagree with any of it then let us discuss it here.

What's the point of answering any question if it's all online?
Then, what's the point of anyone asking you anything?

Quote from: inquisitive on April 15, 2014, 01:24:38 PM

Quote from: jroa on April 15, 2014, 01:02:37 AM

Why do you just post to tell people to look it up for themselves?  Seems counter productive.

Because it makes more sense than posting stuff here.  There is plenty of information available online about the detail of how satellites operate.  If you disagree with any of it then let us discuss it here.

What's the point of answering any question if it's all online?
Then, what's the point of anyone asking you anything?

There is no recognised online explanation for a flat earth.  Jroa wants to know how satellites work, plenty of detail online from major companies, universities etc.  If he reads there and disagrees he can post the link here for discussion about it.

Or maybe afraid to disagree with a thesis from a university...

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 01:07:57 PM

Because understanding the basics of how something works is a far cry from knowing how to design the circuit boards to make it function.

Maybe you should go defend the little kid on the playground, they need protected more than most of these ideas.

I could build a computer, but I don't know how to build a hard drive.
I would say I know the basics.
Where did this schoolchild come into play?

Thank you for proving my point. I would BET you even understand the basics as to how that hard drive works, yet you can't build one.

And the school kid comes in about defending something that needs defending.

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 15, 2014, 01:14:34 PM

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 01:07:57 PM

Because understanding the basics of how something works is a far cry from knowing how to design the circuit boards to make it function.

Maybe you should go defend the little kid on the playground, they need protected more than most of these ideas.

I could build a computer, but I don't know how to build a hard drive.
I would say I know the basics.
Where did this schoolchild come into play?

Thank you for proving my point. I would BET you even understand the basics as to how that hard drive works, yet you can't build one.

And the school kid comes in about defending something that needs defending.

Some kids deserve a swift punch to the cheek.
The hard drive was an example of a component of the system that I wouldn't be able to build from scratch.
Looking at this analogy, I'm sure there's pieces of a satellite that the average Joe wouldn't be able to build, though if Joe had the blueprints that listed all of the components in their correct places, he might be able to pull it off. (With a bit of basic knowledge of how a satellite "works". (...Maybe slightly-above-average Joe.))
Do you see what I'm saying yet?
Perhaps we just have differing standards of the term "basic".

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 01:53:32 PM

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 15, 2014, 01:14:34 PM

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 01:07:57 PM

Because understanding the basics of how something works is a far cry from knowing how to design the circuit boards to make it function.

Maybe you should go defend the little kid on the playground, they need protected more than most of these ideas.

I could build a computer, but I don't know how to build a hard drive.
I would say I know the basics.
Where did this schoolchild come into play?

Thank you for proving my point. I would BET you even understand the basics as to how that hard drive works, yet you can't build one.

And the school kid comes in about defending something that needs defending.

Some kids deserve a swift punch to the cheek.
The hard drive was an example of a component of the system that I wouldn't be able to build from scratch.
Looking at this analogy, I'm sure there's pieces of a satellite that the average Joe wouldn't be able to build, though if Joe had the blueprints that listed all of the components in their correct places, he might be able to pull it off. (With a bit of basic knowledge of how a satellite "works". (...Maybe slightly-above-average Joe.))
Do you see what I'm saying yet?
Perhaps we just have differing standards of the term "basic".

Apparently, because i wouldn't really expect ANY average joe to build any sort of advanced electronic device really from blueprints.

But then I don't know all does actually go into building a satellite. If it's something thats completely modular, more like a PC, than ok, sure. But if it involves the precise alignment of things, possibly more advanced electrical work, than I'm sceptical.

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 15, 2014, 01:59:44 PM

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 01:53:32 PM

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 15, 2014, 01:14:34 PM

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 01:07:57 PM

Because understanding the basics of how something works is a far cry from knowing how to design the circuit boards to make it function.

Maybe you should go defend the little kid on the playground, they need protected more than most of these ideas.

I could build a computer, but I don't know how to build a hard drive.
I would say I know the basics.
Where did this schoolchild come into play?

Thank you for proving my point. I would BET you even understand the basics as to how that hard drive works, yet you can't build one.

And the school kid comes in about defending something that needs defending.

Some kids deserve a swift punch to the cheek.
The hard drive was an example of a component of the system that I wouldn't be able to build from scratch.
Looking at this analogy, I'm sure there's pieces of a satellite that the average Joe wouldn't be able to build, though if Joe had the blueprints that listed all of the components in their correct places, he might be able to pull it off. (With a bit of basic knowledge of how a satellite "works". (...Maybe slightly-above-average Joe.))
Do you see what I'm saying yet?
Perhaps we just have differing standards of the term "basic".

Apparently, because i wouldn't really expect ANY average joe to build any sort of advanced electronic device really from blueprints.

But then I don't know all does actually go into building a satellite. If it's something thats completely modular, more like a PC, than ok, sure. But if it involves the precise alignment of things, possibly more advanced electrical work, than I'm sceptical.

Well, apparently a few companies make some kits.
You can read this : http://www.diyspaceexploration.com/how-to-build-your-own-personal-satellite/.
There's some pertinent information on there.
Even to order all the parts yourself, I couldn't imagine it being all that difficult.
If you could solder something onto a circuit board successfully, I'm sure alignment and precision wouldn't be an issue.
This is also assuming you have at least a basic understanding of how a satellite works.

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 15, 2014, 01:59:44 PM

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 01:53:32 PM

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 15, 2014, 01:14:34 PM

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 01:07:57 PM

Because understanding the basics of how something works is a far cry from knowing how to design the circuit boards to make it function.

Maybe you should go defend the little kid on the playground, they need protected more than most of these ideas.

I could build a computer, but I don't know how to build a hard drive.
I would say I know the basics.
Where did this schoolchild come into play?

Thank you for proving my point. I would BET you even understand the basics as to how that hard drive works, yet you can't build one.

And the school kid comes in about defending something that needs defending.

Some kids deserve a swift punch to the cheek.
The hard drive was an example of a component of the system that I wouldn't be able to build from scratch.
Looking at this analogy, I'm sure there's pieces of a satellite that the average Joe wouldn't be able to build, though if Joe had the blueprints that listed all of the components in their correct places, he might be able to pull it off. (With a bit of basic knowledge of how a satellite "works". (...Maybe slightly-above-average Joe.))
Do you see what I'm saying yet?
Perhaps we just have differing standards of the term "basic".

Apparently, because i wouldn't really expect ANY average joe to build any sort of advanced electronic device really from blueprints.

But then I don't know all does actually go into building a satellite. If it's something thats completely modular, more like a PC, than ok, sure. But if it involves the precise alignment of things, possibly more advanced electrical work, than I'm sceptical.

There are satellite called micro-satellites that can be deployed from the ISS. They are build by ham radio engineers. http://ww2.amsat.org/

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 02:09:14 PM

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 15, 2014, 01:59:44 PM

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 01:53:32 PM

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 15, 2014, 01:14:34 PM

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 01:07:57 PM

Because understanding the basics of how something works is a far cry from knowing how to design the circuit boards to make it function.

Maybe you should go defend the little kid on the playground, they need protected more than most of these ideas.

I could build a computer, but I don't know how to build a hard drive.
I would say I know the basics.
Where did this schoolchild come into play?

Thank you for proving my point. I would BET you even understand the basics as to how that hard drive works, yet you can't build one.

And the school kid comes in about defending something that needs defending.

Some kids deserve a swift punch to the cheek.
The hard drive was an example of a component of the system that I wouldn't be able to build from scratch.
Looking at this analogy, I'm sure there's pieces of a satellite that the average Joe wouldn't be able to build, though if Joe had the blueprints that listed all of the components in their correct places, he might be able to pull it off. (With a bit of basic knowledge of how a satellite "works". (...Maybe slightly-above-average Joe.))
Do you see what I'm saying yet?
Perhaps we just have differing standards of the term "basic".

Apparently, because i wouldn't really expect ANY average joe to build any sort of advanced electronic device really from blueprints.

But then I don't know all does actually go into building a satellite. If it's something thats completely modular, more like a PC, than ok, sure. But if it involves the precise alignment of things, possibly more advanced electrical work, than I'm sceptical.

Well, apparently a few companies make some kits.
You can read this : http://www.diyspaceexploration.com/how-to-build-your-own-personal-satellite/.
There's some pertinent information on there.
Even to order all the parts yourself, I couldn't imagine it being all that difficult.
If you could solder something onto a circuit board successfully, I'm sure alignment and precision wouldn't be an issue.
This is, also assuming you have at least a basic understanding of how a satellite works.

The problem is to find an association that will approve it to be used in space.

The problem is to find an association that will approve it to be used in space.

This is true.
NASA or the likes must approve it first.

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 15, 2014, 01:59:44 PM

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 01:53:32 PM

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 15, 2014, 01:14:34 PM

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 01:07:57 PM

Because understanding the basics of how something works is a far cry from knowing how to design the circuit boards to make it function.

Maybe you should go defend the little kid on the playground, they need protected more than most of these ideas.

I could build a computer, but I don't know how to build a hard drive.
I would say I know the basics.
Where did this schoolchild come into play?

Thank you for proving my point. I would BET you even understand the basics as to how that hard drive works, yet you can't build one.

And the school kid comes in about defending something that needs defending.

Some kids deserve a swift punch to the cheek.
The hard drive was an example of a component of the system that I wouldn't be able to build from scratch.
Looking at this analogy, I'm sure there's pieces of a satellite that the average Joe wouldn't be able to build, though if Joe had the blueprints that listed all of the components in their correct places, he might be able to pull it off. (With a bit of basic knowledge of how a satellite "works". (...Maybe slightly-above-average Joe.))
Do you see what I'm saying yet?
Perhaps we just have differing standards of the term "basic".

Apparently, because i wouldn't really expect ANY average joe to build any sort of advanced electronic device really from blueprints.

But then I don't know all does actually go into building a satellite. If it's something thats completely modular, more like a PC, than ok, sure. But if it involves the precise alignment of things, possibly more advanced electrical work, than I'm sceptical.

'blueprints'. There's a word from the last century.

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 02:09:14 PM

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 15, 2014, 01:59:44 PM

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 01:53:32 PM

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 15, 2014, 01:14:34 PM

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 15, 2014, 01:07:57 PM

Because understanding the basics of how something works is a far cry from knowing how to design the circuit boards to make it function.

Maybe you should go defend the little kid on the playground, they need protected more than most of these ideas.

I could build a computer, but I don't know how to build a hard drive.
I would say I know the basics.
Where did this schoolchild come into play?

Thank you for proving my point. I would BET you even understand the basics as to how that hard drive works, yet you can't build one.

And the school kid comes in about defending something that needs defending.

Some kids deserve a swift punch to the cheek.
The hard drive was an example of a component of the system that I wouldn't be able to build from scratch.
Looking at this analogy, I'm sure there's pieces of a satellite that the average Joe wouldn't be able to build, though if Joe had the blueprints that listed all of the components in their correct places, he might be able to pull it off. (With a bit of basic knowledge of how a satellite "works". (...Maybe slightly-above-average Joe.))
Do you see what I'm saying yet?
Perhaps we just have differing standards of the term "basic".

Apparently, because i wouldn't really expect ANY average joe to build any sort of advanced electronic device really from blueprints.

But then I don't know all does actually go into building a satellite. If it's something thats completely modular, more like a PC, than ok, sure. But if it involves the precise alignment of things, possibly more advanced electrical work, than I'm sceptical.

'blueprints'. There's a word from the last century.

What would you prefer?
Schematics?