Space and solar panels.

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sceptimatic

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Space and solar panels.
« on: March 19, 2014, 02:17:25 AM »
Can anyone explain how solar panels are cooled down in space? You see, what we are told about space, is that it's a virtual vacuum and heat can't be dissipated , so how can the thin strips of aluminium cool down or stay constant?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 02:25:16 AM by sceptimatic »

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2014, 02:21:05 AM »
I would be interested to see the RE views on this.  If you heat one side of a solar panel at 500 degrees (or what ever temperature), then where is this heat going?  Sceptimatic has a point here.  There is no air for the heat to radiate through. 

Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2014, 02:30:14 AM »
Can anyone explain how solar panels are cooled down in space? You see, what we are told about space, is that it's a virtual vacuum and heat can't be dissipated , so how can the thin strips of aluminium cool down or stay constant?
Solar panels on what in space?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2014, 02:36:50 AM »
Can anyone explain how solar panels are cooled down in space? You see, what we are told about space, is that it's a virtual vacuum and heat can't be dissipated , so how can the thin strips of aluminium cool down or stay constant?
Solar panels on what in space?
It doesn't matter on what. Pick any of the thousands of satellites that's supposedly up there and have supposedly been up there; or even the supposed ISS with it's huge solar panels. The questions is simple enough. If you can't or won't answer it, fair enough. Side stepping it won't make it go away.

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glokta

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2014, 02:47:32 AM »
What don't you like about the official explanation of IR radiation?
Quote from: sceptimatic
Use your brain. There is no sun in space. You are simply duped.

Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2014, 02:53:52 AM »
.  There is no air for the heat to radiate through.
You need to take some real basic physics lessons.

Do you not know how electromagnetic radiation works, or are you just pretending for the sake of an argument?
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sceptimatic

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2014, 02:58:44 AM »
What don't you like about the official explanation of IR radiation?
How about explaining the cooling process. I mean, we are talking about your huge hot sun hitting these solar panels aren't we?
You do realise how thin these solar panels are don't you?
Now the question is simple: How do the solar panels dissipate the heat because if they don't, then those delicate little electrics and cells would be fired, not to mention the thin aluminium would be....well, it wouldn't be there, would it?

Get back to google and see if there's a rational explanation for this amazement.

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2014, 03:12:34 AM »
How do the solar panels dissipate the heat...

The same way they absorbed it in the first place would be my guess, by radiating it from the shaded side of the panel. Mind you, that's just a guess.
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glokta

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2014, 03:12:49 AM »
You really need to get a basic grip on science and what you do or don't accept. You can't argue about immense heat from the sun travelling through space to an object and then in the same paragraph argue that heat can't radiate because heat can't travel in space. Figure out your argument then we can discuss it. I'm off out it's a nice day, thank goodness heat can travel through space.
Quote from: sceptimatic
Use your brain. There is no sun in space. You are simply duped.

Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2014, 03:17:55 AM »
.  There is no air for the heat to radiate through.
You need to take some real basic physics lessons.

Do you not know how electromagnetic radiation works, or are you just pretending for the sake of an argument?
I'd like to know how their managing to shielding the electronics from induction. silicon chips & exposure to strong electromagnetic fields is a no no.       
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sceptimatic

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2014, 03:21:25 AM »
How do the solar panels dissipate the heat...

The same way they absorbed it in the first place would be my guess, by radiating it from the shaded side of the panel. Mind you, that's just a guess.
Radiating it from the shaded side panel? Let me try and explain something. You do realise how THIN those panels are, right? You can also appreciate that if they were up in space as we are told... and heated; then there would be no real benefit to a  shaded side, because the heat would be intense on both sides, ask your chicken in foil.

Saying it's the same way as it was absorbed is not an answer and you know it. This is clearly something that even you have to seriously question. Don't just go into immediate denial mode to hang on to your space dream, get it questioned.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2014, 03:24:12 AM »
You really need to get a basic grip on science and what you do or don't accept. You can't argue about immense heat from the sun travelling through space to an object and then in the same paragraph argue that heat can't radiate because heat can't travel in space. Figure out your argument then we can discuss it. I'm off out it's a nice day, thank goodness heat can travel through space.
I have to go by what I see as real. I know that tea stays hot in a  thermos flask. It eventually goes cold but that's due to the stopper and the actual attached neck allowing air to eventually cool it slowly.
Your space does not even have that to hang on to, so tell me how it dissipates the heat from the solar panels?

Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2014, 03:32:33 AM »
You really need to get a basic grip on science and what you do or don't accept. You can't argue about immense heat from the sun travelling through space to an object and then in the same paragraph argue that heat can't radiate because heat can't travel in space. Figure out your argument then we can discuss it. I'm off out it's a nice day, thank goodness heat can travel through space.
No his asking how does the heat dissipate. or lets put it anther way, how does the energy that is being absorbed dissipate.       
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
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Scintific Method

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2014, 03:46:41 AM »
How do the solar panels dissipate the heat...

The same way they absorbed it in the first place would be my guess, by radiating it from the shaded side of the panel. Mind you, that's just a guess.
Radiating it from the shaded side panel? Let me try and explain something. You do realise how THIN those panels are, right? You can also appreciate that if they were up in space as we are told... and heated; then there would be no real benefit to a  shaded side, because the heat would be intense on both sides, ask your chicken in foil.

Saying it's the same way as it was absorbed is not an answer and you know it. This is clearly something that even you have to seriously question. Don't just go into immediate denial mode to hang on to your space dream, get it questioned.

A quick search and read shows that I was pretty much on the money. One side of the solar panel is exposed to the sun, the other side (in the shade) is exposed to a temperature of about 4K (very, very cold). Think of it like putting an aluminium boat in the ocean, and then trying to heat up the hull of the boat (below the water line, and from the inside) with a blowtorch.
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

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Starman

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2014, 04:36:09 AM »
Can anyone explain how solar panels are cooled down in space? You see, what we are told about space, is that it's a virtual vacuum and heat can't be dissipated , so how can the thin strips of aluminium cool down or stay constant?
You have a good question. Look it up yourself. Go to Google and ask the question. Why should we answer your questions.

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Starman

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2014, 04:39:45 AM »
How do the solar panels dissipate the heat...

The same way they absorbed it in the first place would be my guess, by radiating it from the shaded side of the panel. Mind you, that's just a guess.
Radiating it from the shaded side panel? Let me try and explain something. You do realise how THIN those panels are, right? You can also appreciate that if they were up in space as we are told... and heated; then there would be no real benefit to a  shaded side, because the heat would be intense on both sides, ask your chicken in foil.

Saying it's the same way as it was absorbed is not an answer and you know it. This is clearly something that even you have to seriously question. Don't just go into immediate denial mode to hang on to your space dream, get it questioned.
How do you know how thin it is? How thin is it?

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Salviati

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2014, 04:40:57 AM »
Can anyone explain how solar panels are cooled down in space? You see, what we are told about space, is that it's a virtual vacuum and heat can't be dissipated , so how can the thin strips of aluminium cool down or stay constant?
Heat is transferred from a body to another in three ways: by contact, by convection and by radiation.

First case: a warm body touches another cooler body; heat goes from the hotter to the cooler one until both reach the same temperature. Easy.

Second: a warm body creates a current of warm air that brings the heat elsewhere. This is a too short explanation but i hope you got the picture. Example:



This phenomenon can be very complex, i don't want to make a too long story. Of course this can happen only in the atmosphere.

Third: a body, all bodies (unless they are at absolute zero temperature, that is 0 Kelvin) emit infrared rays, and in doing this they get cooler. Note that due to the Stephan-Boltzmann law the heat emitted by a body by radiation in the fourth power of the absolute temperature, in othe words, is sufficient a small difference in temperature between the bodies to create a big energy transfer. Cooling by radiation is also a common experience. In winter, when car's windshield gets covered by ice, if the evening before you park the car with the front faced a house, at few meters, the next morning the windshield isn't covered by ice. What happened? The wall of the house (i mean a inhabited house) is slighty warmer than the air, and it emits infrared rays which warms the windshield enough to avoid freezing. Of course i'm not speaking about too cold environments. I live in Europe exactly on the 45░ parallel and this is a normal experience for me.

Back in topic. The solar panels can get cooler only by radiation. If anything, in space the cooling by radiation is very efficient, much much more than on earth. Why? Because solar panels emit heat by infrared rays, and how much they receive in exchange? Almost nothing, because if they are faced to open space, the space is at a temperature only a small bit higher than absolute zero. In other words, solar panels lose heat very quickly. No fear they can melt down.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 04:59:22 AM by Salviati »
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sceptimatic

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2014, 05:03:22 AM »
How do the solar panels dissipate the heat...

The same way they absorbed it in the first place would be my guess, by radiating it from the shaded side of the panel. Mind you, that's just a guess.
Radiating it from the shaded side panel? Let me try and explain something. You do realise how THIN those panels are, right? You can also appreciate that if they were up in space as we are told... and heated; then there would be no real benefit to a  shaded side, because the heat would be intense on both sides, ask your chicken in foil.

Saying it's the same way as it was absorbed is not an answer and you know it. This is clearly something that even you have to seriously question. Don't just go into immediate denial mode to hang on to your space dream, get it questioned.

A quick search and read shows that I was pretty much on the money. One side of the solar panel is exposed to the sun, the other side (in the shade) is exposed to a temperature of about 4K (very, very cold). Think of it like putting an aluminium boat in the ocean, and then trying to heat up the hull of the boat (below the water line, and from the inside) with a blowtorch.
Let's forget about the ocean because it has absolutely no bearing on what we are talking about. What we are talking about (according to space scientists) is a space environment that is 'what they term' to us, as a vacuum.

You know as well as anyone that supposed space (as we are told)  is neither hot or  cold and your fellow scientists know this. So let me put the point across!
 If the solar panel gets heated up by the sun and then turned away from the sun, it still carries that heat. It can't get rid of it, so the aluminium foil on it will still hold onto that heat until it's next turn around to the sun;  then it will be heated some more. Well to be honest, it would be long gone by then and I think common sense should tell anyone that.

The sun is supposedly radiating heat through space and hitting the panels and it's like putting those panels inside a large thermos flask whilst still heating them. The heat can't go anywhere other than stay on the foil which in turn would be heating the other side of the foil up if it's connected by any means, which...if you take a look at the solar panels on the supposed ISS for instance, you will see that this is the case.

On Earth we have AIR circulation that can dissiipate heat... space has none of that, as we are told.  Then, there are what the effects of the sun can do as we are told... so the conclusion is quite simple! Solar panels can NOT operate in space unless it has some kind of circulation to allow it to dissipate the heat.

Also, I might add: When a person on Earth gets solar powered panels and they produce more energy than they need, it gets sent back to the grid, as we are told. Remember: excess energy can't be stored in the home, it has to be sent back to the grid or simply allowed to be dumped using a dumpload system, just like power stations do. Now why is this relevant?

It's relevant because the  so called ISS does not have the capability to do this, nor do so called satellites. Obviously some silly answer will be made up that it uses what's needed and stores excess in some kind of batteries, but what happens when those batteries can't store any more charge? Where do they dump the excess?
Remember, you can't simply dump it by sticking a wire out of the window hoping it will leak into space.

So there you have it! Don't be fooled by people jumping in and trying to equate it to trying to heat the inside of a metal boat hull with a blow torch against the water under it COOLING it down because any rational thinking person can see that stuff like this is a complete and utter side step and an attempt to throw you off the scent.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2014, 05:09:39 AM »
Can anyone explain how solar panels are cooled down in space? You see, what we are told about space, is that it's a virtual vacuum and heat can't be dissipated , so how can the thin strips of aluminium cool down or stay constant?
You have a good question. Look it up yourself. Go to Google and ask the question. Why should we answer your questions.
You don't need to answer my question, so why are you so defensive as if I've thrown a stone at you or something? What's the matter? Don't you want to find out the truth or are you scared of the truth?
You and anyone else can deck out of this at any time. The question still remains and will remain until a satisfactory answer is given, which will take some doing.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2014, 05:11:43 AM »
How do the solar panels dissipate the heat...

The same way they absorbed it in the first place would be my guess, by radiating it from the shaded side of the panel. Mind you, that's just a guess.
Radiating it from the shaded side panel? Let me try and explain something. You do realise how THIN those panels are, right? You can also appreciate that if they were up in space as we are told... and heated; then there would be no real benefit to a  shaded side, because the heat would be intense on both sides, ask your chicken in foil.

Saying it's the same way as it was absorbed is not an answer and you know it. This is clearly something that even you have to seriously question. Don't just go into immediate denial mode to hang on to your space dream, get it questioned.
How do you know how thin it is? How thin is it?
Go and take a look at the super pictures of it or somke of the videos of it rippling in the space wind/water...I mean vacuum.
How do I know how thin it is.  ;D It's thin! I think even you can't argue against that.

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Starman

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2014, 05:13:00 AM »
Can anyone explain how solar panels are cooled down in space? You see, what we are told about space, is that it's a virtual vacuum and heat can't be dissipated , so how can the thin strips of aluminium cool down or stay constant?
You have a good question. Look it up yourself. Go to Google and ask the question. Why should we answer your questions.
You don't need to answer my question, so why are you so defensive as if I've thrown a stone at you or something? What's the matter? Don't you want to find out the truth or are you scared of the truth?
You and anyone else can deck out of this at any time. The question still remains and will remain until a satisfactory answer is given, which will take some doing.
Some question are so simple to find. you ask about things you know nothing about. Tell me the temperature in space both side(sun and shadow) of the solar cells?

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Starman

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2014, 05:15:50 AM »
How do the solar panels dissipate the heat...

The same way they absorbed it in the first place would be my guess, by radiating it from the shaded side of the panel. Mind you, that's just a guess.
Radiating it from the shaded side panel? Let me try and explain something. You do realise how THIN those panels are, right? You can also appreciate that if they were up in space as we are told... and heated; then there would be no real benefit to a  shaded side, because the heat would be intense on both sides, ask your chicken in foil.

Saying it's the same way as it was absorbed is not an answer and you know it. This is clearly something that even you have to seriously question. Don't just go into immediate denial mode to hang on to your space dream, get it questioned.
How do you know how thin it is? How thin is it?
Go and take a look at the super pictures of it or somke of the videos of it rippling in the space wind/water...I mean vacuum.
How do I know how thin it is.  ;D It's thin! I think even you can't argue against that.
Yes you don't know how thin is in. It could be 2 feet or 2 inches. And what is in it? Cooling system maybe!!!

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sceptimatic

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2014, 05:17:43 AM »
Can anyone explain how solar panels are cooled down in space? You see, what we are told about space, is that it's a virtual vacuum and heat can't be dissipated , so how can the thin strips of aluminium cool down or stay constant?
Heat is transferred from a body to another in three ways: by contact, by convection and by radiation.

First case: a warm body touches another cooler body; heat goes from the hotter to the cooler one until both reach the same temperature. Easy.

Second: a warm body creates a current of warm air that brings the heat elsewhere. This is a too short explanation but i hope you got the picture. Example:



This phenomenon can be very complex, i don't want to make a too long story. Of course this can happen only in the atmosphere.

Third: a body, all bodies (unless they are at absolute zero temperature, that is 0 Kelvin) emit infrared rays, and in doing this they get cooler. Note that due to the Stephan-Boltzmann law the heat emitted by a body by radiation in the fourth power of the absolute temperature, in othe words, is sufficient a small difference in temperature between the bodies to create a big energy transfer. Cooling by radiation is also a common experience. In winter, when car's windshield gets covered by ice, if the evening before you park the car with the front faced a house, at few meters, the next morning the windshield isn't covered by ice. What happened? The wall of the house (i mean a inhabited house) is slighty warmer than the air, and it emits infrared rays which warms the windshield enough to avoid freezing. Of course i'm not speaking about too cold environments. I live in Europe exactly on the 45░ parallel and this is a normal experience for me.

Back in topic. The solar panels can get cooler only by radiation. If anything, in space the cooling by radiation is very efficient, much much more than on earth. Why? Because solar panels emit heat by infrared rays, and how much they receive in exchange? Almost nothing, because if they are faced to open space, the space is at a temperature only a small bit higher than absolute zero. In other words, solar panels lose heat very quickly. No fear they can melt down.
So basically what you are telling me is, my flask is defying the laws of space nature and in fact should be cooling much more rapidly inside the flask. Thanks for that, I'll be sending my flask back and asking for a refund, telling them that my tea stays hot for ages when it should be cooling down much more efficiently than if I left it on the table in a cup.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 05:20:24 AM by sceptimatic »

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sceptimatic

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2014, 05:19:25 AM »
How do the solar panels dissipate the heat...

The same way they absorbed it in the first place would be my guess, by radiating it from the shaded side of the panel. Mind you, that's just a guess.
Radiating it from the shaded side panel? Let me try and explain something. You do realise how THIN those panels are, right? You can also appreciate that if they were up in space as we are told... and heated; then there would be no real benefit to a  shaded side, because the heat would be intense on both sides, ask your chicken in foil.

Saying it's the same way as it was absorbed is not an answer and you know it. This is clearly something that even you have to seriously question. Don't just go into immediate denial mode to hang on to your space dream, get it questioned.
How do you know how thin it is? How thin is it?
Go and take a look at the super pictures of it or somke of the videos of it rippling in the space wind/water...I mean vacuum.
How do I know how thin it is.  ;D It's thin! I think even you can't argue against that.
Yes you don't know how thin is in. It could be 2 feet or 2 inches. And what is in it? Cooling system maybe!!!
Oh yeah, I'm sure there's a big load of cooling pipes running all over the  2 feet thick foil. Desperation is all I can conclude from this answer.

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Salviati

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2014, 05:20:23 AM »
It's relevant because the  so called ISS does not have the capability to do this, nor do so called satellites. Obviously some silly answer will be made up that it uses what's needed and stores excess in some kind of batteries, but what happens when those batteries can't store any more charge? Where do they dump the excess?
To get rid of electricity is a child's play. It's sufficient to close a circuit.
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Starman

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2014, 05:20:46 AM »
Here is what you said:
It's relevant because the  so called ISS does not have the capability to do this, nor do so called satellites. Obviously some silly answer will be made up that it uses what's needed and stores excess in some kind of batteries, but what happens when those batteries can't store any more charge? Where do they dump the excess?
Remember, you can't simply dump it by sticking a wire out of the window hoping it will leak into space.

You know nothing about batteries used in those systems. The same thing happens when you open the tap to fill your bathtub. When it gets full you shut it off. Was that too complicated.

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Starman

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2014, 05:21:54 AM »
How do the solar panels dissipate the heat...
Here it is:
Liquid ammonia circulates through the pipes, carrying waste heat from the solar panels to the photovoltaic radiator panels, where the heat escapes into space. This keeps the solar panels cool.

The same way they absorbed it in the first place would be my guess, by radiating it from the shaded side of the panel. Mind you, that's just a guess.
Radiating it from the shaded side panel? Let me try and explain something. You do realise how THIN those panels are, right? You can also appreciate that if they were up in space as we are told... and heated; then there would be no real benefit to a  shaded side, because the heat would be intense on both sides, ask your chicken in foil.

Saying it's the same way as it was absorbed is not an answer and you know it. This is clearly something that even you have to seriously question. Don't just go into immediate denial mode to hang on to your space dream, get it questioned.
How do you know how thin it is? How thin is it?
Go and take a look at the super pictures of it or somke of the videos of it rippling in the space wind/water...I mean vacuum.
How do I know how thin it is.  ;D It's thin! I think even you can't argue against that.
Yes you don't know how thin is in. It could be 2 feet or 2 inches. And what is in it? Cooling system maybe!!!
Oh yeah, I'm sure there's a big load of cooling pipes running all over the  2 feet thick foil. Desperation is all I can conclude from this answer.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2014, 05:22:04 AM »
It's relevant because the  so called ISS does not have the capability to do this, nor do so called satellites. Obviously some silly answer will be made up that it uses what's needed and stores excess in some kind of batteries, but what happens when those batteries can't store any more charge? Where do they dump the excess?
To get rid of electricity is a child's play. It's sufficient to close a circuit.
To get rid of electricity on Earth is easy, you're right. Now try and get rid of it in space.

?

Starman

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2014, 05:27:42 AM »
It's relevant because the  so called ISS does not have the capability to do this, nor do so called satellites. Obviously some silly answer will be made up that it uses what's needed and stores excess in some kind of batteries, but what happens when those batteries can't store any more charge? Where do they dump the excess?
To get rid of electricity is a child's play. It's sufficient to close a circuit.
To get rid of electricity on Earth is easy, you're right. Now try and get rid of it in space.
Now you know nothing about electricity. Solar panels produce electricity because there is a close circuit so the electrons can circulate. It does not produce electricity if the
there is not place to go. Think of it like a battery. If you have a 9volt battery it will only produce electricity(electron) if you put a load (bulb) across the terminals. Then the process starts.

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Salviati

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Re: Space and solar panels.
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2014, 05:28:28 AM »
So basically what you are telling me is, my flask is defying the laws of space nature and in fact should be cooling much more rapidly inside the flask. Thanks for that, I'll be sending my flask back and asking for a refund, telling them that my tea stays hot for ages when it should be cooling down much more efficiently than if I left it on the table in a cup.
What the hell are you talking about? A flask? I gave you an answer to your question about solar panels and now you are talking about a fucking flask? This is clearly an admission of defeat. You don't have an idea about what to reply to me.
Q: Why do you think the Earth is round?
A: Look out the window!