Flight Paths

i am starting to come round to this idea that the earth is flat. only thing is how would the flight paths we would take on a plane be explained,

Generally speaking—due to constraints of time and fuel costs—both passenger ships and commercial aircraft follow what's known as a "great circle" over the surface of the spherical planet.  This is the shortest distance between two points on a sphere.

A great circle path is actually part of the line drawn around the maximum circumference of the planet, and known as an "arc".

And a ship or a plane follows a constant bearing along that arc, although obviously it crosses each meridian at a different physical angle: no turning left and no turning right.  Many flat earthers will tell you erroneously that the ship or plane is physically "turning slightly" all the time. 

   
 
Note that this diagram is indicating a great circle path on a flat projection, and not a sphere, which is why the rhumb line looks straight.
 

The grids above the lower grids are slightly less distance wide. I'm not quite sure what your ultimate point is though but clearly if you traveled in a straight line in the upper grids you would travel less distance then if you traveled in a straight line in the lower grids of your diagram.

How do we know what our flight path is?  We just take the word of the airlines, now don't we?

How do we know what our flight path is?  We just take the word of the airlines, now don't we?

I'm 99% sure that all private/commercial pilots could tell you exactly what their flight paths were. If they were flying VFR( Visual flight rules) over a large land mas such as Australia or Europe, they would fly a great circle path (when travelling east-west) and you could see this by visually observing cities and landmarks.  I could see why there would be ambiguity of your whereabouts over sea. But these ideas could easily be proven over land.

I guess another thing about flight paths is that they don't really prove anything as routes are determined by where VOR stations and control centers operate or are found. Planes don't usually fly in straight lines which are the shortest path.

How do we know what our flight path is?  We just take the word of the airlines, now don't we?

Or sit by the window withna GPS receiver.

Long distance planes rarely take the shortest route. Especially across the Atlantic they will vary their track to take advantage, or minimise the disadvantage, due to the jetstream.

I am sure other oceans similar will apply.

How do we know what our flight path is?  We just take the word of the airlines, now don't we?

At least in the US all aircraft have to file a "Flight Plan" with the FAA which tells what their flight path is going to be.

I suppose that now the FES is going to call the FAA part of the conspiracy ?

How do we know what our flight path is?  We just take the word of the airlines, now don't we?

No, we don't. You can follow the exact movement of most commercial planes online, in real time, from the comfort of your chair.

Quote from: jroa on February 10, 2014, 09:57:11 PM

How do we know what our flight path is?  We just take the word of the airlines, now don't we?

No, we don't. You can follow the exact movement of most commercial planes online, in real time, from the comfort of your chair.

Not to mention that flight plans have to be submitted to the relevant authorities, and air traffic control have to be informed as you pass through various countries airspace.

Also, working from basic parameters of maximum speed, fuel capacity and RE predictions of approximate distance it should be pretty easy to to falsify the airline provided flight paths.  Something no flat earther (or anyone else) has ever done.

Quote from: jroa on February 10, 2014, 09:57:11 PM

How do we know what our flight path is?  We just take the word of the airlines, now don't we?

No, we don't. You can follow the exact movement of most commercial planes online, in real time, from the comfort of your chair.

Isn't that the same as taking their word for it? 

Isn't that the same as taking their word for it?

No.  But why is this a problem?  Do you think all 230 major airlines are lying to you?  Airlines come and go all the time - why do new ones immedietely join such an inane conspiracy?

Here's how Flight Radar does it's tracking:

Flightradar24 is a flight tracker that shows live air traffic from around the world. Flightradar24 combines data from several data sources including ADS-B, MLAT and FAA. The ADS-B, MLAT and FAA data is aggregated together with schedule and flight status data from airlines and airports to create a unique flight tracking experience on www.flightradar24.com and in Flightradar24 apps.

Then

ADS-B
How ADS-B works

The primary technology that we use to receive flight information is called automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B). The ADS-B technology itself is best explained by the image to the right.

Aircraft gets its location from a GPS navigation source (satellite)

The ADS-B transponder on aircraft transmits signal containing the location (and much more)

ADS-B signal is picked up by a receiver connected to Flightradar24
Receiver feeds data to Flightradar24

Data is shown on www.flightradar24.com and in Flightradar24 apps

Today, roughly 60% of all passenger aircraft (70% in Europe, 30% in the US) are equipped with an ADS-B transponder. This percentage is steadily increasing as ADS-B is set to replace radar as the primary surveillance method for controlling aircraft.

Do you think the transponders are in on the conspiracy as well?

You must live in a very weird world, with all these thousands of organisations conspiring against little old you.

How do we know what our flight path is?  We just take the word of the airlines, now don't we?

Can you suggest any specific and/or advantageous reasons that every commercial airline in the world would choose to misrepresent their flight paths?  Wouldn't it be far simpler and cheaper just to tell passengers the actual path?
 

Quote from: jroa on February 11, 2014, 10:34:42 PM

Isn't that the same as taking their word for it?

No.  But why is this a problem?  Do you think all 230 major airlines are lying to you?  Airlines come and go all the time - why do new ones immedietely join such an inane conspiracy?

Here's how Flight Radar does it's tracking:

Quote

Flightradar24 is a flight tracker that shows live air traffic from around the world. Flightradar24 combines data from several data sources including ADS-B, MLAT and FAA. The ADS-B, MLAT and FAA data is aggregated together with schedule and flight status data from airlines and airports to create a unique flight tracking experience on www.flightradar24.com and in Flightradar24 apps.

Then

Quote

ADS-B
How ADS-B works

The primary technology that we use to receive flight information is called automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B). The ADS-B technology itself is best explained by the image to the right.

Aircraft gets its location from a GPS navigation source (satellite)

The ADS-B transponder on aircraft transmits signal containing the location (and much more)

ADS-B signal is picked up by a receiver connected to Flightradar24
Receiver feeds data to Flightradar24

Data is shown on www.flightradar24.com and in Flightradar24 apps

Today, roughly 60% of all passenger aircraft (70% in Europe, 30% in the US) are equipped with an ADS-B transponder. This percentage is steadily increasing as ADS-B is set to replace radar as the primary surveillance method for controlling aircraft.

Do you think the transponders are in on the conspiracy as well?

You must live in a very weird world, with all these thousands of organisations conspiring against little old you.

I see.  So you do want me to just take their word for it.

Quote from: jroa on February 10, 2014, 09:57:11 PM

How do we know what our flight path is?  We just take the word of the airlines, now don't we?

Can you suggest any specific and/or advantageous reasons that every commercial airline in the world would choose to misrepresent their flight paths?  Wouldn't it be far simpler and cheaper just to tell passengers the actual path?
 

Or, maybe they are simply wrong?

Or, maybe they are simply wrong?

Can you explain how hundreds of airlines and thousands of flight controllers all across the planet would get such vital flight data wrong?

Wouldn't there be chaos in our skies?
 

Are you saying the hundreds or thousands of people can't all be wrong about something simultaneously? 

Are you saying the hundreds or thousands of people can't all be wrong about something simultaneously?

The answer is definitely yes.  Unless all these people conspired to disseminate precisely the same, but incorrect, flight information all day, every day.

What reasons do you have for suspecting that all airline flight data is incorrect or willfully misleading?  And what advantage would the airlines and/or the government achieve by doing this?
 

Were not millions of people wrong about leaching curing diseases at the same time?  You seem to have some kind of fantasy about the majority being correct in all circumstances. 

Were not millions of people wrong about leaching curing diseases at the same time?  You seem to have some kind of fantasy about the majority being correct in all circumstances.

Is there any particular reason you're avoiding answering my question?  In case you missed it.....
 
What reasons do you have for suspecting that all airline flight data is incorrect or willfully misleading?  And what advantage would the airlines and/or the government achieve by doing this?
 


Incidentally, your analogy with diseases is immaterial:  you're talking about hundreds of years ago.  Medical science has advanced hugely since the Middle Ages.
 

With all of the "Scientific Proofs" that have fallen to the wayside over the past hundreds of years, how can you say with absolute certainty that these people are not simply mistaken?  They were, after all, raised in RE sciences.  Do I really need to start naming science skat that ended up being false? 

Are you saying the hundreds or thousands of people can't all be wrong about something simultaneously?

In this instance, yes, absolutely.  In fact it's a laughable suggestion.  Especially as you haven't proved any of them wrong, let alone all of them.

Are you suggesting all the transponders built for all the planes are wrong in the same way all the time and yet flight plans all work?

Flight tracking systems work for millions of people every day - can you show me how they are wrong?

I was not suggesting that all of these people are in on some kind of conspiracy.  I was merely suggesting that all of these people were taught RE science in school, and therefore, they believe they are correct for programming these devices with RE algorithms.  It is not their fault they are wrong. 

I was not suggesting that all of these people are in on some kind of conspiracy.  I was merely suggesting that all of these people were taught RE science in school, and therefore, they believe they are correct for programming these devices with RE algorithms.  It is not their fault they are wrong.

What do you mean by RE algorithms? Detail pls.

Quote from: jroa on February 12, 2014, 09:42:43 AM

I was not suggesting that all of these people are in on some kind of conspiracy.  I was merely suggesting that all of these people were taught RE science in school, and therefore, they believe they are correct for programming these devices with RE algorithms.  It is not their fault they are wrong.

What do you mean by RE algorithms? Detail pls.

What are you confused about?  The word algorithms? 

Quote from: inquisitive on February 12, 2014, 09:44:30 AM

Quote from: jroa on February 12, 2014, 09:42:43 AM

I was not suggesting that all of these people are in on some kind of conspiracy.  I was merely suggesting that all of these people were taught RE science in school, and therefore, they believe they are correct for programming these devices with RE algorithms.  It is not their fault they are wrong.

What do you mean by RE algorithms? Detail pls.

What are you confused about?  The word algorithms?

This information they are programmed with, please explain how a GPS system works.

Is it not possible for someone to program your GPS to output any coordinate or location, no matter what your actual location is?  I am confused about how this is bewildering you. 

It is not their fault they are wrong.

Except they are not wrong.  Flight trackers work for 10s of millions of people and thousands of airline and air traffic control professionals every day.  If it were wrong then planes flight times would all be wrong, planes would not be in particular place when expected, fuel consumption estimates (and therefore prices) would be wrong.  Not to mention the safety problems with having the wrong location for a particular plane at any time.

they believe they are correct for programming these devices with RE algorithms

There are no such things as "RE algorithms" (lol) - just algorithms that work.  If you think they don't then take me through you evidence.

Ok, so I get it now.  Government workers never make mistakes, right? 

Is it not possible for someone to program your GPS to output any coordinate or location, no matter what your actual location is?  I am confused about how this is bewildering you.

They show my actual position on a map, to within a few feet.  Thst is what they do. Have you seen one?