REs Please Explain

And Einstein used the metric system of weights & measures rather than carrots why? Because their was an official standard by which to measure the units of measure, @ the time made of solid steel bars kept in Paris. Today the official measurement is still kept in Paris, but it is digital. On the other hand, there was not then, nor is there now, an official length of a carrot. On a sidenote, Rowbotham was NOT a scientist, or even a particularly good debater. He simply had a bigger mouth than the opposition. Anyone formally trained in logic, as I was, & doubtless some of you were, could have buried him. Scientists usually give philosophy pretty short shrift. They have to, so they can graduate in 4 yrs. That was another reason they lost the verbal wars w/ Rowbotham.

Let's please get off of the carrot vs. meters.  This thread has been totally derailed. 

I agree, JROA, that carrots & meters aren't relevant to our topic. But let's face it. Rowbotham was a schmuck. He wrote & argued @ a time when no one had seen the earth. They had only maths to prove its sphericity. However, we've since been off-planet. Oh, I know. I'm going to hear about the Conspiracy. In a word: bullshit. Don't tell me that 5 space agencies (the US, Russia, Europe, China, Japan), & now Iran (which just sent a monkey up) could keep a secret that massive for 64 yrs! The US can't even tap people's phones & not get caught! Lets face it, Dudes! The world is round! Anything else might be cool as a video game, but its f---ing stupid as science. I'm the ruler of Medieval Japan too, on my NDS! But what would you all say, & better yet, what would the Japanese Govt say, if I announced that I was taking charge over there? I suspect there are hospitals & meds for that kind of thing, no?

When was the last time you went to space?

Also, Iran sent a monkey into space and the wrong one came back down.   

The US got caught because of one person.  How many secrets do they have that one person did not devoulge? 

When was the last time you went to space?

Also, Iran sent a monkey into space and the wrong one came back down.   

The US got caught because of one person.  How many secrets do they have that one person did not devoulge?

And how do you know that the wrong monkey came back - what 'evidence' are you going to site?

Alpha, that was my next question. & Jroa, that's my point. Surely this Conspiracy, as vast as it is, in 64 years would have had @ least ONE (1) tattle-tale, in one of the many countries involved. Just think. One dude could make the govts of 4 major nations, the EU, & now Iran all look like fucktards. Look what Snowden got away with. You're going to tell me that some dude couldn't pull a Snowden here & get away w/ it? I've got a piece of the f---ing Brooklyn Bridge I'll sell you.

Quote from: jroa on February 14, 2014, 01:57:00 PM

When was the last time you went to space?

Also, Iran sent a monkey into space and the wrong one came back down.   

The US got caught because of one person.  How many secrets do they have that one person did not devoulge?

And how do you know that the wrong monkey came back - what 'evidence' are you going to site?

Because the footage of the monkey before it went into space looks completely different from the one that came back.  Iran's response was that it was a technical error.  What it your response?

Chances are, it was a technical error. And a monkey that's just been floating around in 0 grav is probably going to look a lot different when it gets back than when it left.

Quote from: alfa156melb on February 14, 2014, 02:09:03 PM

Quote from: jroa on February 14, 2014, 01:57:00 PM

When was the last time you went to space?

Also, Iran sent a monkey into space and the wrong one came back down.   

The US got caught because of one person.  How many secrets do they have that one person did not devoulge?

And how do you know that the wrong monkey came back - what 'evidence' are you going to site?

Because the footage of the monkey before it went into space looks completely different from the one that came back.  Iran's response was that it was a technical error.  What it your response?

two options. 1- it was a technical error. 2- they replaced the monkey to save face after it died. Neither option dismisses decades of space exploration. Not in the slightest. Basing your opinion on space travel on the iran programme is like basing your view of earth on sceptimatics hand drawn maps.

You don't understand.  The markings are different on the two monkeys.  Iran says that they accidentally showed film of a different monkey, yet it was passed off as the first Iranian Monkey in Space.

Ok. So Iran made themselves look stupid. That doesn't change the rest of the world's experience. Again I ask: how do you keep a f---ing conspiracy involving 4 powerful nations & the EU a secret for 64 yrs w/o @ least 1 Snowden pissing in your cheerios? The answer is simple: you don't.

Do you honestly believe that you know everything about all of the conspiracies that have ever been?  I am guessing you would say no. 

Jroa, the question is irrelevant. This is a 'Conspiracy' spanning 4 nations & a pan-national entity that itself has about 23 nations! You're that naive that you honestly f---ing believe that that shit wouldn't have been blown from Hell to breakfast long before now? Let's see. The US & the USSR-Russia would love to make each other look stupid. China & Japan the same, ditto for China & the US. But nobody's going to whisper a word! If you believe that, you need that hospital & the meds I spoke of when I mentioned ruling Japan!

Yes, because there can never be more than three people keeping a secret.   

Jroa, whether meant seriously or not, that is essentially correct.

Thanks for the clarification. I will be sure to keep that in mind. 

Come on, Jroa, you're better than this. Don't be a yutz. We're not talking 3 people. Or 10, or even 500. We're talking how many thousands? You've got everyone employed in the 5 space agencies from scientists & astronauts to janitors. You've got their families, & the friends & acquaintances of those people. Then you've got govt officials in app. 27 nations, their families, & their friends & acqauaintances. This circle of people just keeps getting larger exponentially. Now I'm no math genius, but even I can see, that's a lot of f---ing people! All it would take is ONE (1) to blow the whole f---ing thing from Hell to breakfast if it was a lie. Just 1. As for motive, well hell. A govt could offer money, women, you name it! Make Russia look stupid, we'll pay you well.

Or even better, somebody does it on their own to make everybody look like a fucking schmuck.

Why would the janitors need to be in on the conspiracy?  I only mention this because there are probably 99% of people who work for NASA who have nothing to do with the space launches. 

We're talking how many thousands?

One estimate was put at 40,000 technical personnel, excluding ancillary staff.
 

Yes, because there can never be more than three people keeping a secret.   

So, by that reasoning we should believe every conspiracy out there because, hey "people can keep secrets"?

Anyway, to typify the combined space programs of 25 countries, 10 of which with launch capability, spanning 60 years as "three people keeping a secret" is patently silly.  We are talking millions of people over hundreds of different governments (at least in democratic countries) and vast numbers of private contractors (just the NASA GGI artists must number in their thousands).  Yet not a single one has thought to mention the greatest trick played on humanity in the history of civilisation?

Aside from that, over 500 people from 40 different countries has actually been into space: not a single one has gone whistleblower, despite extensive contact with the media.

Also we are not talking about a little secret, like running over your neighbor's cat.  We are talking about a reality shattering paradigm shift: something that will fundamentally change our view of the universe and our place within it.

Yet not a single person, even on their deathbed, has said "I just can't keep this secret anymore..."

Frankly, if you believe that, you'll believe any old shite.

it wouldnt even take alot to tempt someone to snitch. There are parts of india where people would be more than happy to blow the lid on the whole space programme for the promise of maybe, just maybe one day being allowed to look at a photo of a pot of jam

Quote from: Yaakov ben Avraham on February 14, 2014, 03:30:31 PM

We're talking how many thousands?

One estimate was put at 40,000 technical personnel, excluding ancillary staff.

D.Day landings. How many millions of soldiers, personnel, intelligence and a whole host of other parties involved, yet they apparently managed to fool the Germans, so we are led to believe. So tell me. How did all those people keep a secret? Not one person managed to infiltrate it all or one person let slip what was going down.

All this bull crap of thousands having to be in on something, is the weakest argument you round earth people make, in desperation to keep up this charade , for whatever reasons you have.
You can clearly see how much of history is riddled with contraditions and less than impressive video/pictures/explanations and the rest of it, so why don't you look into that, instead of going into a full of attampt at debunking every mortal thing that's shown to you or said to you.

it wouldnt even take alot to tempt someone to snitch. There are parts of india where people would be more than happy to blow the lid on the whole space programme for the promise of maybe, just maybe one day being allowed to look at a photo of a pot of jam

Maybe many have tried and been silenced before it gets anywhere. I would assume that anyone directly invlolved in this type of stuff, would be monitored and their every move accounted for.
All those people have are media sources to get the message out. Who owns the media?

The people that run this stuff, know for a fact that anyone claiming stuff like this is faked and such, will be labelled a nut case or a disgruntled employee. You're not that naive as to not understnd how this is very plausible.
Just take a look at the suicides of the 5 J.PMorgan bankers. Pressure of work? Or did they know something?

Quote from: ausGeoff on February 15, 2014, 01:10:33 AM

Quote from: Yaakov ben Avraham on February 14, 2014, 03:30:31 PM

We're talking how many thousands?

One estimate was put at 40,000 technical personnel, excluding ancillary staff.

D.Day landings. How many millions of soldiers, personnel, intelligence and a whole host of other parties involved, yet they apparently managed to fool the Germans, so we are led to believe. So tell me. How did all those people keep a secret? Not one person managed to infiltrate it all or one person let slip what was going down.

All this bull crap of thousands having to be in on something, is the weakest argument you round earth people make, in desperation to keep up this charade , for whatever reasons you have.
You can clearly see how much of history is riddled with contraditions and less than impressive video/pictures/explanations and the rest of it, so why don't you look into that, instead of going into a full of attampt at debunking every mortal thing that's shown to you or said to you.

how about you present some photos or videos that you propose are fake and we can discuss those. Out of interest do you think the apollo moon landings were fake? Lets get down to specific items of evidence.

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 15, 2014, 05:07:14 AM

Quote from: ausGeoff on February 15, 2014, 01:10:33 AM

Quote from: Yaakov ben Avraham on February 14, 2014, 03:30:31 PM

We're talking how many thousands?

One estimate was put at 40,000 technical personnel, excluding ancillary staff.

D.Day landings. How many millions of soldiers, personnel, intelligence and a whole host of other parties involved, yet they apparently managed to fool the Germans, so we are led to believe. So tell me. How did all those people keep a secret? Not one person managed to infiltrate it all or one person let slip what was going down.

All this bull crap of thousands having to be in on something, is the weakest argument you round earth people make, in desperation to keep up this charade , for whatever reasons you have.
You can clearly see how much of history is riddled with contraditions and less than impressive video/pictures/explanations and the rest of it, so why don't you look into that, instead of going into a full of attampt at debunking every mortal thing that's shown to you or said to you.

how about you present some photos or videos that you propose are fake and we can discuss those. Out of interest do you think the apollo moon landings were fake? Lets get down to specific items of evidence.

There's a topic for the moon landings. If you want to bring that topic back up and carry on discussing it, then fine.
There's been hundreds and hundreds of pictures and video that's been presented that stinks of being fake. The fact that people like you, desperately try to pass them off as being perfecly legitimate looking, tells me that your intentions are based on nothing other than to protect the lies.
If I'm wrong, then show me ANYTHING at all that you've questioned about what you stick like glue to.

Quote from: glokta on February 15, 2014, 05:20:01 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 15, 2014, 05:07:14 AM

Quote from: ausGeoff on February 15, 2014, 01:10:33 AM

Quote from: Yaakov ben Avraham on February 14, 2014, 03:30:31 PM

We're talking how many thousands?

One estimate was put at 40,000 technical personnel, excluding ancillary staff.

D.Day landings. How many millions of soldiers, personnel, intelligence and a whole host of other parties involved, yet they apparently managed to fool the Germans, so we are led to believe. So tell me. How did all those people keep a secret? Not one person managed to infiltrate it all or one person let slip what was going down.

All this bull crap of thousands having to be in on something, is the weakest argument you round earth people make, in desperation to keep up this charade , for whatever reasons you have.
You can clearly see how much of history is riddled with contraditions and less than impressive video/pictures/explanations and the rest of it, so why don't you look into that, instead of going into a full of attampt at debunking every mortal thing that's shown to you or said to you.

how about you present some photos or videos that you propose are fake and we can discuss those. Out of interest do you think the apollo moon landings were fake? Lets get down to specific items of evidence.

There's a topic for the moon landings. If you want to bring that topic back up and carry on discussing it, then fine.
There's been hundreds and hundreds of pictures and video that's been presented that stinks of being fake. The fact that people like you, desperately try to pass them off as being perfecly legitimate looking, tells me that your intentions are based on nothing other than to protect the lies.
If I'm wrong, then show me ANYTHING at all that you've questioned about what you stick like glue to.

maybe it would suprise you to know that when i was younger i believed the 911 hoax and apollo hoax due to only having a partial interest at the time and thus being ideal fodder to soak up the conspiracy videos and articles. However as time went on the overwhelming inconsistencies in the theories prompted me to look at all angles and all availiable evidence and am now of an opposite viewpoint. I can look back on that period of naievity with some shame, something we all hold hope may also happen to you if you care to better yourself. With the wealth of information available now at your fingertips, there is no excuse for ignorance.

One estimate was put at 40,000 technical personnel, excluding ancillary staff.
D.Day landings.

They aren't a secret - we know about them.

How many millions of soldiers, personnel, intelligence and a whole host of other parties involved, yet they apparently managed to fool the Germans, so we are led to believe. So tell me. How did all those people keep a secret? Not one person managed to infiltrate it all or one person let slip what was going down.

The whole German nation new an invasion of Northern Europe was coming, the trick was hiding the time and the place.  Or rather fooling the high command (specifically Hitler) into believing the attack would take place anywhere but Normandy.  You should read up on Operation Bodyguard.  The German command had intelligence that an attack on Normandy was imminent, but they also had intelligence that attacks on lots of different places was likely.  This led them to spread the defenses very thinly, and stopped reinforcements reaching the landing zones quickly.

I suspect you know nothing of the counter-intelligence operations, the whole "D-day was a secret" is brought up by in conspiracy forums, and you just parrot it with little understanding.

Aside from anything, the space program now spans 25 different (often competing) countries over 60 years.  500 individuals from 40 different countries have been into space.  Comparing it to the  D-Day landings is facile at best.

maybe it would suprise you to know that when i was younger i believed the 911 hoax and apollo hoax due to only having a partial interest at the time and thus being ideal fodder to soak up the conspiracy videos and articles. However as time went on the overwhelming inconsistencies in the theories prompted me to look at all angles and all availiable evidence and an now of an opposite viewpoint. I can look back on that period of naievity with some shame, something we all hold hope may also happen to you if you care to better yourself. With the wealth of information available now at your fingertips, there is no excuse for ignorance.

Look back on that period with some shame? Are you winding me up?
Stop telling blatant lies. You haven't looked at anything and thought it a conspiracy. You're just using that ruse to attempt to make you sound more plausible in arguing your indoctrinated stance.
You don't fool me with that explanation.

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 15, 2014, 05:07:14 AM

One estimate was put at 40,000 technical personnel, excluding ancillary staff.
D.Day landings.

They aren't a secret - we know about them.

Quote

How many millions of soldiers, personnel, intelligence and a whole host of other parties involved, yet they apparently managed to fool the Germans, so we are led to believe. So tell me. How did all those people keep a secret? Not one person managed to infiltrate it all or one person let slip what was going down.

The whole German nation new an invasion of Northern Europe was coming, the trick was hiding the time and the place.  Or rather fooling the high command (specifically Hitler) into believing the attack would take place anywhere but Normandy.  You should read up on Operation Bodyguard.  The German command had intelligence that an attack on Normandy was imminent, but they also had intelligence that attacks on lots of different places was likely.  This led them to spread the defenses very thinly, and stopped reinforcements reaching the landing zones quickly.

I suspect you know nothing of the counter-intelligence operations, the whole "D-day was a secret" is brought up by in conspiracy forums, and you just parrot it with little understanding.

Aside from anything, the space program now spans 25 different (often competing) countries over 60 years.  500 individuals from 40 different countries have been into space.  Comparing it to the  D-Day landings is facile at best.

Who are you trying to convince, here? You've got no chance with me. You people are as transparent as the clearest glass. Your objectives are there for all to see. To hang onto the hollywood clap trap that's passed off as scientific amazement.