GPS

A car GPS receiver will show the bearing, ID number and signal strength of typically 10 satellites.  If the vehicle is stationary these will move over time.

How is this explained?

For info for some - geostationary satellites orbit above the equator at a height for a 24 hour orbit, GPS ones are lower and not fixed to be above the equator.

Where can I find a map of the FE?

My cell phone can tell me exactly where I am, whether I have the GPS turned on or not. 

Also, I have noticed on many occasions that I loose GPS signal around the same time I loose cell phone signal.  Why is that?  One is on the ground and one is high in the sky.

My cell phone can tell me exactly where I am, whether I have the GPS turned on or not. 

Also, I have noticed on many occasions that I loose GPS signal around the same time I loose cell phone signal.  Why is that?  One is on the ground and one is high in the sky.

Way to avoid answering the question jroa, you'd make a good politician.

To reiterate, the question was: how is the apparent movement of GPS satellites explained?

I have noticed this myself; sitting stationary looking at the GPS data, signal will be lost from some satellites over time (I'm talking minutes here), and new ones will pop up. The number of 'visible' satellites is not constant, and the visible satellites are not always the same ones.

Quote from: jroa on December 13, 2013, 12:05:29 PM

My cell phone can tell me exactly where I am, whether I have the GPS turned on or not. 

Also, I have noticed on many occasions that I loose GPS signal around the same time I loose cell phone signal.  Why is that?  One is on the ground and one is high in the sky.

Way to avoid answering the question jroa, you'd make a good politician.

To reiterate, the question was: how is the apparent movement of GPS satellites explained?

I have noticed this myself; sitting stationary looking at the GPS data, signal will be lost from some satellites over time (I'm talking minutes here), and new ones will pop up. The number of 'visible' satellites is not constant, and the visible satellites are not always the same ones.

  Way to avoid the issues, like a true politician.  Let's just pretend that we have no issues other than the question at hand.  GPS is from outer-space, and cell phones are from Earth and never the two shall meet. 

Quote from: Scintific Method on December 13, 2013, 01:18:12 PM

Quote from: jroa on December 13, 2013, 12:05:29 PM

My cell phone can tell me exactly where I am, whether I have the GPS turned on or not. 

Also, I have noticed on many occasions that I loose GPS signal around the same time I loose cell phone signal.  Why is that?  One is on the ground and one is high in the sky.

Way to avoid answering the question jroa, you'd make a good politician.

To reiterate, the question was: how is the apparent movement of GPS satellites explained?

I have noticed this myself; sitting stationary looking at the GPS data, signal will be lost from some satellites over time (I'm talking minutes here), and new ones will pop up. The number of 'visible' satellites is not constant, and the visible satellites are not always the same ones.

  Way to avoid the issues, like a true politician.  Let's just pretend that we have no issues other than the question at hand.  GPS is from outer-space, and cell phones are from Earth and never the two shall meet.

A lot of times, when you lose connection, it's because something is blocking the signal. It doesn't matter where the signal is coming from. For example, when you enter an elevator, signals may be lost because you are in an enclosed space.

Also, I have noticed on many occasions that I loose GPS signal around the same time I loose cell phone signal.  Why is that? 

Since you have provided no details of the conditions when you claim to lose signal, it's impossible to say.

Quote from: jroa on December 13, 2013, 12:05:29 PM

Also, I have noticed on many occasions that I loose GPS signal around the same time I loose cell phone signal.  Why is that? 

Since you have provided no details of the conditions when you claim to lose signal, it's impossible to say.

I do notice I lose both GPS and cell phone inside steel buildings, but what are you trying to prove ?

GPS is fake. Your GPS receiver is programmed at the factory. It is just running through a sequence. I've seen monkeys do the same thing.

Quote from: markjo on December 13, 2013, 05:00:13 PM

Quote from: jroa on December 13, 2013, 12:05:29 PM

Also, I have noticed on many occasions that I loose GPS signal around the same time I loose cell phone signal.  Why is that? 

Since you have provided no details of the conditions when you claim to lose signal, it's impossible to say.

I do notice I lose both GPS and cell phone inside steel buildings, but what are you trying to prove ?

I'm not trying to prove anything.  Jroa is one who is asking us to draw a conclusion from insufficient data.

Quote from: markjo on December 13, 2013, 05:00:13 PM

Quote from: jroa on December 13, 2013, 12:05:29 PM

Also, I have noticed on many occasions that I loose GPS signal around the same time I loose cell phone signal.  Why is that? 

Since you have provided no details of the conditions when you claim to lose signal, it's impossible to say.

I do notice I lose both GPS and cell phone inside steel buildings, but what are you trying to prove ?

I was implying that both signals come from similar sources.  I know I have to really dumb down statements for some people, but I did not think I would have to explain this in such detail. 

Quote from: Googleotomy on December 13, 2013, 06:39:32 PM

Quote from: markjo on December 13, 2013, 05:00:13 PM

Quote from: jroa on December 13, 2013, 12:05:29 PM

Also, I have noticed on many occasions that I loose GPS signal around the same time I loose cell phone signal.  Why is that? 

Since you have provided no details of the conditions when you claim to lose signal, it's impossible to say.

I do notice I lose both GPS and cell phone inside steel buildings, but what are you trying to prove ?

I was implying that both signals come from similar sources.  I know I have to really dumb down statements for some people, but I did not think I would have to explain this in such detail.

do you have map references for where you have lost signal before?

It might allow us to work out reasons for it.

Personally in england I've only lost tracking on my van under large bridges/ in motorway tunnels/ underground car parks.

Have you considered experimenting with tin foil to see if you could narrow down directions to  the emitters?

I'd just like to point out that there are Geostatic Satellites that don't move at all as well as Virtual Satellites that can Move Eastward or Westward in 3 Orbits per day. The Trick is sharp Diagonal lines and connecting to Each side quickly. This can ease peak load times as they can power on in the appropriate spot at peak times during the day using their built in sensors.

My cell phone can tell me exactly where I am, whether I have the GPS turned on or not. 

Also, I have noticed on many occasions that I loose GPS signal around the same time I loose cell phone signal.  Why is that?  One is on the ground and one is high in the sky.

You need to venture to the great wilderness of Alaska where cell towers are few and far between but GPS signal is always there.

GPS is fake. Your GPS receiver is programmed at the factory. It is just running through a sequence. I've seen monkeys do the same thing.

Programmed to do what?  It gets me from A to B and accurately follows the roads.  Can't be fake.

I'd just like to point out that there are Geostatic Satellites that don't move at all as well as Virtual Satellites that can Move Eastward or Westward in 3 Orbits per day. The Trick is sharp Diagonal lines and connecting to Each side quickly. This can ease peak load times as they can power on in the appropriate spot at peak times during the day using their built in sensors.

A GPS receiver shows orbits from all directions, not just east and west.  Read the technical documentation on how GPS works.

Quote from: Scintific Method on December 13, 2013, 01:18:12 PM

Quote from: jroa on December 13, 2013, 12:05:29 PM

My cell phone can tell me exactly where I am, whether I have the GPS turned on or not. 

Also, I have noticed on many occasions that I loose GPS signal around the same time I loose cell phone signal.  Why is that?  One is on the ground and one is high in the sky.

Way to avoid answering the question jroa, you'd make a good politician.

To reiterate, the question was: how is the apparent movement of GPS satellites explained?

I have noticed this myself; sitting stationary looking at the GPS data, signal will be lost from some satellites over time (I'm talking minutes here), and new ones will pop up. The number of 'visible' satellites is not constant, and the visible satellites are not always the same ones.

  Way to avoid the issues, like a true politician.  Let's just pretend that we have no issues other than the question at hand.  GPS is from outer-space, and cell phones are from Earth and never the two shall meet.

There is no question that cell phones can give you a pretty good position fix in 2 dimensions without the aid of GPS, but a dedicated GPS receiver will give you a very good position fix in 3 dimensions, in places where cell towers are clearly not present. Also, back to the Q, (and I'm going to  use similar wording to what was used in another recent thread that touched on this topic; pretty sure that never got answered either...), how would a large number of fixed towers simulate a smaller number of moving satellites, each of which transmit a unique identifier?

Quote from: jroa on December 13, 2013, 03:11:41 PM

Quote from: Scintific Method on December 13, 2013, 01:18:12 PM

Quote from: jroa on December 13, 2013, 12:05:29 PM

My cell phone can tell me exactly where I am, whether I have the GPS turned on or not. 

Also, I have noticed on many occasions that I loose GPS signal around the same time I loose cell phone signal.  Why is that?  One is on the ground and one is high in the sky.

Way to avoid answering the question jroa, you'd make a good politician.

To reiterate, the question was: how is the apparent movement of GPS satellites explained?

I have noticed this myself; sitting stationary looking at the GPS data, signal will be lost from some satellites over time (I'm talking minutes here), and new ones will pop up. The number of 'visible' satellites is not constant, and the visible satellites are not always the same ones.

  Way to avoid the issues, like a true politician.  Let's just pretend that we have no issues other than the question at hand.  GPS is from outer-space, and cell phones are from Earth and never the two shall meet.

There is no question that cell phones can give you a pretty good position fix in 2 dimensions without the aid of GPS, but a dedicated GPS receiver will give you a very good position fix in 3 dimensions, in places where cell towers are clearly not present. Also, back to the Q, (and I'm going to  use similar wording to what was used in another recent thread that touched on this topic; pretty sure that never got answered either...), how would a large number of fixed towers simulate a smaller number of moving satellites, each of which transmit a unique identifier?

UK cellphones do not give a position unless they are smart phones with GPS.  Hand held GPS units from eg. Garmin work where there is no mobile phone coverage and no transmitter masts around.

GPS is fake. Your GPS receiver is programmed at the factory. It is just running through a sequence. I've seen monkeys do the same thing.

Typical FE answer. If you don't know how something works and don't want to learn how someting works , just call it a "fake." The old FE answer that the GPS is programmed to give you an answer is another bit of FE ridiculousness. I suppose we can include Garmin and Tom Tom etc. in the list of the Great Round Earth Conspiracy  ?

Incidentally, land based navigational aids such as cell phones and LORAN can give you distances and bearings, but only GPS can also give you your elevation or altitude in addition. You might read up a bit on GPS Theory but a true FE would never ever do that.

UK cellphones do not give a position unless they are smart phones with GPS.  Hand held GPS units from eg. Garmin work where there is no mobile phone coverage and no transmitter masts around.

they generally don't but they could if the companies thought it worthwhile to add in the functionality. all the data's there on the phone.

Quote from: Sculelos on December 13, 2013, 09:21:51 PM

I'd just like to point out that there are Geostatic Satellites that don't move at all as well as Virtual Satellites that can Move Eastward or Westward in 3 Orbits per day. The Trick is sharp Diagonal lines and connecting to Each side quickly. This can ease peak load times as they can power on in the appropriate spot at peak times during the day using their built in sensors.

A GPS receiver shows orbits from all directions, not just east and west.  Read the technical documentation on how GPS works.

True, but my point was that not all of them (Geostationary) are actually orbiting some of them are just hanging there motionlessly. All Orbiting ones have at least a slight vertical slant though as orbiting in a straight North or South line is impossible due to the Polar Vertices.

Quote from: inquisitive on December 14, 2013, 12:15:13 AM

Quote from: Sculelos on December 13, 2013, 09:21:51 PM

I'd just like to point out that there are Geostatic Satellites that don't move at all as well as Virtual Satellites that can Move Eastward or Westward in 3 Orbits per day. The Trick is sharp Diagonal lines and connecting to Each side quickly. This can ease peak load times as they can power on in the appropriate spot at peak times during the day using their built in sensors.

A GPS receiver shows orbits from all directions, not just east and west.  Read the technical documentation on how GPS works.

True, but my point was that not all of them (Geostationary) are actually orbiting some of them are just hanging there motionlessly. All Orbiting ones have at least a slight vertical slant though as orbiting in a straight North or South line is impossible due to the Polar Vertices.

the motionless ones are still orbiting, they're just doing it at the same rate as the earth is spinning.

Quote from: inquisitive on December 14, 2013, 09:24:57 AM

UK cellphones do not give a position unless they are smart phones with GPS.  Hand held GPS units from eg. Garmin work where there is no mobile phone coverage and no transmitter masts around.

they generally don't but they could if the companies thought it worthwhile to add in the functionality. all the data's there on the phone.

All what data?  A Garmin hand held GPS receiver hold maps and uses the signals from the satellites to determine the actual position.  They work only with a clear view of the sky.

There is no link with the mobile phone network, hence why GPS works in the middle of oceans.

All what data?  A Garmin hand held GPS receiver hold maps and uses the signals from the satellites to determine the actual position.  They work only with a clear view of the sky.

There is no link with the mobile phone network, hence why GPS works in the middle of oceans.

All the data for a phone to work out roughly where it is based purely on the mobile phone network with no need for GPS, it just wouldn't be very accurate.

I know at one point phones used to use this for a rough fix while the GPS was sorting itself out but from what I've seen recently that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

Quote from: Sculelos on December 14, 2013, 08:48:29 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on December 14, 2013, 12:15:13 AM

Quote from: Sculelos on December 13, 2013, 09:21:51 PM

I'd just like to point out that there are Geostatic Satellites that don't move at all as well as Virtual Satellites that can Move Eastward or Westward in 3 Orbits per day. The Trick is sharp Diagonal lines and connecting to Each side quickly. This can ease peak load times as they can power on in the appropriate spot at peak times during the day using their built in sensors.

A GPS receiver shows orbits from all directions, not just east and west.  Read the technical documentation on how GPS works.

True, but my point was that not all of them (Geostationary) are actually orbiting some of them are just hanging there motionlessly. All Orbiting ones have at least a slight vertical slant though as orbiting in a straight North or South line is impossible due to the Polar Vertices.

the motionless ones are still orbiting, they're just doing it at the same rate as the earth is spinning.

Assuming that the Earth is spinning yes that would be true...

Quote from: Spank86 on December 15, 2013, 02:51:07 AM

Quote from: Sculelos on December 14, 2013, 08:48:29 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on December 14, 2013, 12:15:13 AM

Quote from: Sculelos on December 13, 2013, 09:21:51 PM

I'd just like to point out that there are Geostatic Satellites that don't move at all as well as Virtual Satellites that can Move Eastward or Westward in 3 Orbits per day. The Trick is sharp Diagonal lines and connecting to Each side quickly. This can ease peak load times as they can power on in the appropriate spot at peak times during the day using their built in sensors.

A GPS receiver shows orbits from all directions, not just east and west.  Read the technical documentation on how GPS works.

True, but my point was that not all of them (Geostationary) are actually orbiting some of them are just hanging there motionlessly. All Orbiting ones have at least a slight vertical slant though as orbiting in a straight North or South line is impossible due to the Polar Vertices.

the motionless ones are still orbiting, they're just doing it at the same rate as the earth is spinning.

Assuming that the Earth is spinning yes that would be true...

Assuming it's not for a second, how do they stay in position?

I mean isn't even a flat earth supposed to be moving?

Quote from: Sculelos on December 15, 2013, 03:42:32 PM

Quote from: Spank86 on December 15, 2013, 02:51:07 AM

Quote from: Sculelos on December 14, 2013, 08:48:29 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on December 14, 2013, 12:15:13 AM

Quote from: Sculelos on December 13, 2013, 09:21:51 PM

I'd just like to point out that there are Geostatic Satellites that don't move at all as well as Virtual Satellites that can Move Eastward or Westward in 3 Orbits per day. The Trick is sharp Diagonal lines and connecting to Each side quickly. This can ease peak load times as they can power on in the appropriate spot at peak times during the day using their built in sensors.

A GPS receiver shows orbits from all directions, not just east and west.  Read the technical documentation on how GPS works.

True, but my point was that not all of them (Geostationary) are actually orbiting some of them are just hanging there motionlessly. All Orbiting ones have at least a slight vertical slant though as orbiting in a straight North or South line is impossible due to the Polar Vertices.

the motionless ones are still orbiting, they're just doing it at the same rate as the earth is spinning.

Assuming that the Earth is spinning yes that would be true...

Assuming it's not for a second, how do they stay in position?

I mean isn't even a flat earth supposed to be moving?

Like I said before. Electro-magnetism. Strong Force, Weak Force and Gravity are all nonsensical as Electro-Magnetism varies itself to Strong Forces, Weak Forces and both Bi-Laterally pulls and pushes different objects at the same time depending on their dipoles. Since Electro-Magnetism is directly responsible for all four forces the others can be considered imaginary.

On the Earth this works because at 22,236 Miles Altitude from Earth there exist a Equilateral field of force that pulls and pushes at an equal rate therefore objects don't move up nor down nor left nor right except by measure of  Electro-magnetic Interference that can be caused by the Sun for example or by any large wandering body getting too close and disturbing the flow.

Like I said before. Electro-magnetism. Strong Force, Weak Force and Gravity are all nonsensical as Electro-Magnetism varies itself to Strong Forces, Weak Forces and both Bi-Laterally pulls and pushes different objects at the same time depending on their dipoles. Since Electro-Magnetism is directly responsible for all four forces the others can be considered imaginary.

On the Earth this works because at 22,236 Miles Altitude from Earth there exist a Equilateral field of force that pulls and pushes at an equal rate therefore objects don't move up nor down nor left nor right except by measure of  Electro-magnetic Interference that can be caused by the Sun for example or by any large wandering body getting too close and disturbing the flow.

GPS satellites are in an orbit, not stationary, 20200km above the earth.

In your home you have a so called satellite dish pointed in various directions, mostly horizontal facing in many cases, but that's one thing.
How many cars do you see with so called satellite dishes on them?
You have a gadget on your dashboard, you tap in your postcode and the post code of your final destination and off you go.
In between time, your so called sat nav picks up mobile speed camera's.....How?

The reason is simple. It's because your sat nav is simply just a part of cells.
It's programmed as a map and it's programmed to receive marker signals which will be scrambled for that specific purpose.
Anyone who says they only lose signals in certain built up areas and not in country side, etc, is a full blown 100% liar.
As soon as you get out of range of towers, your sat nav goes to hell until it can pick up the next signal from the next tower.
The technology is getting better and better because they are building towers into the countryside for the very purpose of keeping a full map of the whole country.

In your home you have a so called satellite dish pointed in various directions, mostly horizontal facing in many cases, but that's one thing.
How many cars do you see with so called satellite dishes on them?
You have a gadget on your dashboard, you tap in your postcode and the post code of your final destination and off you go.
In between time, your so called sat nav picks up mobile speed camera's.....How?

The reason is simple. It's because your sat nav is simply just a part of cells.
It's programmed as a map and it's programmed to receive marker signals which will be scrambled for that specific purpose.
Anyone who says they only lose signals in certain built up areas and not in country side, etc, is a full blown 100% liar.
As soon as you get out of range of towers, your sat nav goes to hell until it can pick up the next signal from the next tower.
The technology is getting better and better because they are building towers into the countryside for the very purpose of keeping a full map of the whole country.

Home TV satellite dishes are not horizontal, they point at an angle to receive from a satellite over the equator.

Where is the documentation about scrambling satnav signals? What is the format of the marker signals? 

There 3 or 4 GPS systems now, US, Europe and Russia, all work in a similar way.  Agree?

Satnavs work in the air and in the oceans far from any cellphone or other towers.  The map is in the unit, upgrades are available.

As said before the satnav shows the orbiting satellites travelling over.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 16, 2013, 05:36:09 AM

In your home you have a so called satellite dish pointed in various directions, mostly horizontal facing in many cases, but that's one thing.
How many cars do you see with so called satellite dishes on them?
You have a gadget on your dashboard, you tap in your postcode and the post code of your final destination and off you go.
In between time, your so called sat nav picks up mobile speed camera's.....How?

The reason is simple. It's because your sat nav is simply just a part of cells.
It's programmed as a map and it's programmed to receive marker signals which will be scrambled for that specific purpose.
Anyone who says they only lose signals in certain built up areas and not in country side, etc, is a full blown 100% liar.
As soon as you get out of range of towers, your sat nav goes to hell until it can pick up the next signal from the next tower.
The technology is getting better and better because they are building towers into the countryside for the very purpose of keeping a full map of the whole country.

Home TV satellite dishes are not horizontal, they point at an angle to receive from a satellite over the equator.

Where is the documentation about scrambling satnav signals? What is the format of the marker signals? 

There 3 or 4 GPS systems now, US, Europe and Russia, all work in a similar way.  Agree?

Satnavs work in the air and in the oceans far from any cellphone or other towers.  The map is in the unit, upgrades are available.

As said before the satnav shows the orbiting satellites travelling over.

Stop pretending you know what you are talking about.