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Why does the Sun reach the horizon?

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #60 on: January 04, 2014, 04:50:04 PM »
Look at the center right picture, you probably think that one of the girls is much bigger than the other.  The truth is that one is much closer than the other.  Also, I can't say for sure, but it appears to me that the farther girl is higher on the hill slope than the closer girl, even though her head is lower.

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Moosedrool

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #61 on: January 04, 2014, 04:52:44 PM »
Yes perspective!

It has nothing to do with the light illuminating and casting shadows below the clouds. Try it in a diagram.  ;)
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Quote from: sceptimatic on December 18, 2014, 08:22:49 AM
I'm not trying to disprove gravity. I've succeeded in disproving it. It's called denpressure.
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rottingroom

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #62 on: January 04, 2014, 05:19:32 PM »
Quote from: jroa on January 04, 2014, 04:43:27 PM
The clouds and that mountain are much closer to the photographer than the sun.  Perspective makes the sun appear to be lower than either, even though the sun is actually higher above the Earth.

Oh so you are making sure that your claim is impossible to prove but are continuing to assert that it's a sufficient explanation. You FE'rs are pathetic. So tits. Much annoy.
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Sculelos

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #63 on: January 04, 2014, 07:16:58 PM »
Quote from: rottingroom on January 04, 2014, 03:28:13 PM
Quote from: jroa on January 04, 2014, 03:23:45 PM
Are you trying to say that perspective only happens if light can bend?  I don't even follow you anymore.  Lay off the liquor for a little while, please.

Please provide an example of light shining on the opposite side of something. Take a flashlight and shine it on something and show me the opposite side of it in all of its illuminated glory.

Tit.

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rottingroom

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #64 on: January 04, 2014, 07:23:25 PM »
Quote from: Sculelos on January 04, 2014, 07:16:58 PM
Quote from: rottingroom on January 04, 2014, 03:28:13 PM
Quote from: jroa on January 04, 2014, 03:23:45 PM
Are you trying to say that perspective only happens if light can bend?  I don't even follow you anymore.  Lay off the liquor for a little while, please.

Please provide an example of light shining on the opposite side of something. Take a flashlight and shine it on something and show me the opposite side of it in all of its illuminated glory.

Tit.



You can't be serious. Nobody said anything about light shining through something.
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Sculelos

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #65 on: January 04, 2014, 07:33:27 PM »
Light if blocked will not go through an object. Since the Atmosphere is transparent that is very well how the Sun could be visually on the Horizon yet still above the clouds. Remember that if the Light of the Sun takes time to reach us then what we are seeing in the sky already happened. If the light is fading out of our field of view then it will appear to get lower and lower until it disappears completely. If the Sun was the light source as we see it then immediately after the Sun went below the Horizon it would be completely dark as if the Sun is illuminating us the same as it's producing it's own light then it's visual image must be in line with it's line of light. If the Sun is a projection of another body then it's light would still hit us even a short while after the Sun has passed the Horizon line and is visually out of sight. 

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Sunset Time Lapse HD
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 07:36:37 PM by Sculelos »
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rottingroom

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #66 on: January 04, 2014, 07:45:54 PM »
When the sun is visually out of sight its rays are still hitting the atmosphere above you.
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Sculelos

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #67 on: January 04, 2014, 07:50:39 PM »
Quote from: rottingroom on January 04, 2014, 07:45:54 PM
When the sun is visually out of sight its rays are still hitting the atmosphere above you.

True, yet it get's darker before the Sun gets below the Horizon. This is because the Sun is physically getting farther away then you are.
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rottingroom

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #68 on: January 04, 2014, 08:06:17 PM »
Quote from: Sculelos on January 04, 2014, 07:50:39 PM
Quote from: rottingroom on January 04, 2014, 07:45:54 PM
When the sun is visually out of sight its rays are still hitting the atmosphere above you.

True, yet it get's darker before the Sun gets below the Horizon. This is because the Sun is physically getting farther away then you are.

I don't think so. It may be further away in the round earth model as well but by a negligible amount compared to the accepted average distance of 93,000,000 miles. The reason why it is darker and cooler is because of the angle of incidence of a given ray of light.

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Sculelos

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #69 on: January 04, 2014, 08:55:14 PM »
Quote from: rottingroom on January 04, 2014, 08:06:17 PM
Quote from: Sculelos on January 04, 2014, 07:50:39 PM
Quote from: rottingroom on January 04, 2014, 07:45:54 PM
When the sun is visually out of sight its rays are still hitting the atmosphere above you.

True, yet it get's darker before the Sun gets below the Horizon. This is because the Sun is physically getting farther away then you are.

I don't think so. It may be further away in the round earth model as well but by a negligible amount compared to the accepted average distance of 93,000,000 miles. The reason why it is darker and cooler is because of the angle of incidence of a given ray of light.



Well think of it like the Sun is continually Illuminating 66.6% of Earth for it to get dark then the Sun would need to drop about 30 degrees below the Horizon so Sunset should if the Earth is rotating start when the Sun is 30 degrees before the Horizon line and end when the Sun is 30 degrees below the Horizon line. This would mean it would start getting darker 2 hours before the Sun started to set and wouldn't peak out in darkness until 2 hours after it set.

If the Earth is fixed, flat and not moving and the Sun is merely a projection from Venus then it would be projected around 20 degrees but the Sky FOV would always be about 200 degrees (With 180 Degrees Visible) so when the Sun was at 180 degrees you would see it start to get darker and sunset would last about 1 Hour and 20 minutes in total before it started it get dark before it was completely dark out.

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Never Ending Sun - Avi Hochberg
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Scintific Method

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #70 on: January 04, 2014, 09:40:35 PM »
Watching the sunset yesterday, I couldn't help but notice that while the sun was still visible, it was too intense to look at directly, and yet 5 minutes later, it was gone, and the western horizon could be viewed comfortably. This is yet to be explained to my satisfaction by FEH, while RER (Round Earth Reality) explains it without any problem.
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Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."
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rottingroom

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #71 on: January 04, 2014, 10:00:44 PM »
Quote from: Sculelos on January 04, 2014, 08:55:14 PM
Quote from: rottingroom on January 04, 2014, 08:06:17 PM
Quote from: Sculelos on January 04, 2014, 07:50:39 PM
Quote from: rottingroom on January 04, 2014, 07:45:54 PM
When the sun is visually out of sight its rays are still hitting the atmosphere above you.

True, yet it get's darker before the Sun gets below the Horizon. This is because the Sun is physically getting farther away then you are.

I don't think so. It may be further away in the round earth model as well but by a negligible amount compared to the accepted average distance of 93,000,000 miles. The reason why it is darker and cooler is because of the angle of incidence of a given ray of light.



Well think of it like the Sun is continually Illuminating 66.6% of Earth for it to get dark then the Sun would need to drop about 30 degrees below the Horizon so Sunset should if the Earth is rotating start when the Sun is 30 degrees before the Horizon line and end when the Sun is 30 degrees below the Horizon line. This would mean it would start getting darker 2 hours before the Sun started to set and wouldn't peak out in darkness until 2 hours after it set.

If the Earth is fixed, flat and not moving and the Sun is merely a projection from Venus then it would be projected around 20 degrees but the Sky FOV would always be about 200 degrees (With 180 Degrees Visible) so when the Sun was at 180 degrees you would see it start to get darker and sunset would last about 1 Hour and 20 minutes in total before it started it get dark before it was completely dark out.

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Never Ending Sun - Avi Hochberg

Sounds sorta right. It is darker before sunset. I've never bothered to precisely find out the exact times for this but yeah, its certainly brighter when the sun is overhead than it is a couple hours before sunset.
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EarthIsASpaceship

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #72 on: January 05, 2014, 07:39:14 AM »
I have deja vu.  Same conversation, different people this time.  Jroa is right, it's YOUR PERSPECTIVE.  The clouds are closer to you than the sun is and the sun is dimming as it moves away from you.  Hence the orange/gold hue....dim light.  WHITE clouds are going to reflect any light remaining.
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rottingroom

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #73 on: January 05, 2014, 07:45:11 AM »
Quote from: EarthIsASpaceship on January 05, 2014, 07:39:14 AM
I have deja vu.  Same conversation, different people this time.  Jroa is right, it's YOUR PERSPECTIVE.  The clouds are closer to you than the sun is and the sun is dimming as it moves away from you.  Hence the orange/gold hue....dim light.  WHITE clouds are going to reflect any light remaining.

Yeah, I guess if you ignore Rayleigh scattering and the fact that the picture in question shows light illuminating on the bottom of those clouds exclusively, then a nonsense answer like that would be satisfying.
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ausGeoff

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #74 on: January 05, 2014, 07:57:09 AM »
Quote from: jroa on January 04, 2014, 03:31:41 PM

 I would not ask you to reproduce the moon landings in your living room.


I just can't believe that any rational person would use this sort of bizarre logic to prove their point.

Is there any particular reason you never provide any sensible answers, or justification for your astronomical theories?  Personally, I'm more than happy to debate any alternative theories you might have about the geometry of our planet, but you make it very difficult when you only post meaningless comments and insults.
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ausGeoff

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #75 on: January 05, 2014, 08:08:13 AM »
Quote from: jroa on January 04, 2014, 04:35:19 PM
The sun gets close to the horizon because things in the sky get closer to the horizon when they are far away due to perspective.  Do I really need to explain perspective to you guys?

No, you don't need to "explain" perspective to us.  Because the effects you're talking about are not due to perspective.

Technically speaking, "perspective" refers to the artificial representation of a 3D image on a two-dimensional surface.  The word you're looking for—and sadly failing to find—is parallax.

Consider this image demonstrating parallax:
 

 
This image demonstrates parallax. The sun is visible above the streetlight, in reality. The reflection in the water is a virtual image of the sun and the streetlight, which appear to be almost touching. The location of the virtual image is below the surface of the water, offering a different vantage point of the streetlight, which appears to be shifted relative to the more distant sun.
 
 
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EarthIsASpaceship

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #76 on: January 05, 2014, 09:00:04 AM »
Quote from: rottingroom on January 05, 2014, 07:45:11 AM
Yeah, I guess if you ignore Rayleigh scattering and the fact that the picture in question shows light illuminating on the bottom of those clouds exclusively, then a nonsense answer like that would be satisfying.
Oh and how exactly do you know what the tops of those clouds look like from that picture?
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 09:08:12 AM by EarthIsASpaceship »
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ausGeoff

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #77 on: January 05, 2014, 09:03:09 AM »
Quote from: EarthIsASpaceship on January 05, 2014, 09:00:04 AM

Oh and how exactly do you know what the tops of those clouds look like from that picture?

Any high school student would be able to explain to you the simple laws for the propagation of light.

It's not (literally) rocket science.
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EarthIsASpaceship

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #78 on: January 05, 2014, 09:06:45 AM »
Well, lookie here, light ON TOP OF THE CLOUDS!
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
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rottingroom

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2014, 09:09:51 AM »
Quote from: EarthIsASpaceship on January 05, 2014, 09:06:45 AM
Well, lookie here, light ON TOP OF THE CLOUDS!
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

It sure looks like the light is illuminating the sides of those clouds.

Many straws. Such grasp.
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EarthIsASpaceship

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #80 on: January 05, 2014, 09:15:20 AM »
Oh and the photo posted before is NOT of the sides as well?  OF COURSE it's the sides because that is the angle the sun is coming from!  The fact remains that the plane is ABOVE the clouds, and the light is visible on top of the clouds which proves your statement in bold in the above quote is INCORRECT.
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rottingroom

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #81 on: January 05, 2014, 09:25:30 AM »
hmmm, not sure what your getting at.

I totally think things illuminate on the side that the source comes from. If you want to argue that they don't, then show me evidence of that cause you have not.
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EarthIsASpaceship

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #82 on: January 05, 2014, 09:27:26 AM »
You need to go back and read the conversation then.  You are clearly confused.
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rottingroom

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #83 on: January 05, 2014, 10:36:57 AM »
Quote from: EarthIsASpaceship on January 05, 2014, 09:27:26 AM
You need to go back and read the conversation then.  You are clearly confused.

FET = where people assert things without basis.
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ausGeoff

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #84 on: January 05, 2014, 11:03:53 AM »
Quote from: EarthIsASpaceship on January 05, 2014, 09:06:45 AM
Well, lookie here, light ON TOP OF THE CLOUDS!
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Oh dear.  I just lurve it when people post YouTube videos that actually disprove the very point they're attempting to make LOL.

When viewed from an aircraft at a higher altitude then the clouds, what you're seeing is the sun's rays, effectively parallel to the plane of the clouds, and hitting their high points perpendicularly.
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EarthIsASpaceship

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #85 on: January 05, 2014, 11:22:07 AM »
AusGeoff,
The sunlight is hitting the same clouds perpendicular as well, as seen from below in the photo that was posted in this thread.  The sunlight spreads far a wide obviously.  That's why this whole topic of the sunlight illuminating clouds from below is not evidence of a sun disappearing below the horizon.
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rottingroom

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #86 on: January 05, 2014, 11:28:03 AM »
Quote from: EarthIsASpaceship on January 05, 2014, 11:22:07 AM
AusGeoff,
The sunlight is hitting the same clouds perpendicular as well, as seen from below in the photo that was posted in this thread.  The sunlight spreads far a wide obviously.  That's why this whole topic of the sunlight illuminating clouds from below is not evidence of a sun disappearing below the horizon.

If you flash a bulb onto a ball in a white room then the whole ball will be illuminated, but not to the same degree of intensity as the side from which the source of light is coming from.

Conversely, a room painted black will have entirely different consequences.

The atmosphere, like a white room will reflect light but these distinctions are not important because the picture we are discussing have almost all sides of the clouds visible.

Maybe it wasn't clear but the illuminated side is the side with the most brightness, the side with the intense light.

That side can never be the bottom on a flat earth.

The original point that I made is that this particular side of the cloud cannot be both the bottom in one part of the world and then the top in some other part of the world if the Earth is flat.

But a round earth? No problem.
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Moosedrool

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #87 on: January 05, 2014, 11:31:47 AM »
Quote from: EarthIsASpaceship on January 05, 2014, 11:22:07 AM
AusGeoff,
The sunlight is hitting the same clouds perpendicular as well, as seen from below in the photo that was posted in this thread.  The sunlight spreads far a wide obviously.  That's why this whole topic of the sunlight illuminating clouds from below is not evidence of a sun disappearing below the horizon.

Yes it is.
Given the situation of exactly perpendicular rays the sun needs to be ∞ far. Neither would perpendicular rays cast the shadow of something up against the clouds. It will just travel over the mountain:

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Quote from: sceptimatic on December 18, 2014, 08:22:49 AM
I'm not trying to disprove gravity. I've succeeded in disproving it. It's called denpressure.
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EarthIsASpaceship

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #88 on: January 05, 2014, 11:52:37 AM »
Quote from: rottingroom on January 05, 2014, 11:28:03 AM
That side can never be the bottom on a flat earth.

The original point that I made is that this particular side of the cloud cannot be both the bottom in one part of the world and then the top in some other part of the world if the Earth is flat.
You never said anything about two different parts of the world.  I don't see what that has to do with this.  We were discussing how light can illuminate the bottom of clouds at sunset.  And yes it CAN happen on a flat Earth because the sunlight reaches everything and as it moves away, it gradually dims everything from East to West....Earth and sky.
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EarthIsASpaceship

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Re: Why does the Sun reach the horizon?
« Reply #89 on: January 05, 2014, 12:00:28 PM »
Quote from: Moosedrool on January 05, 2014, 11:31:47 AM
Yes it is.
Given the situation of exactly perpendicular rays the sun needs to be ∞ far. Neither would perpendicular rays cast the shadow of something up against the clouds. It will just travel over the mountain:


That shadow is not reaching the clouds.  It only appears to from the perspective of the photographer.  Go up to the top of that mountain and tell me if that shadow is on the clouds before you make your claim.
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